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This team vs 2011 team


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Curious how everyone thinks this team compares to the 2011 team?

 

Centers:

Petey / H Sedin 

Miller / Kesler

Lindholm / Malhotra

Bleuger / Lapierre 

 

Wings:

Boeser / D Sedin 

Mikheyev / Raymond

Suter / Samuelssen

Garland / Burrows

Hogs / Hansen

Dak / Higgins

Lafferty / Glass

PDG / Torres

 

Defensemen

Hughes / Hamhuis

Hronek / Bieksa

Soucy / Edler

Zadorov / Ehrhoff

Myers / Alberts

Cole / Ballard


Goalies:

Demko / Luongo

Desmith / Schneider

 

My take

Centers: now = 2011

Wings: 2011 > now

Defensemen: now > 2011

goalies: 2011 > now

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I think the comparison is far closer than I would have guessed at the beginning of the year. Our center depth is as good or better than 2011. Hughes is the best Dman we have ever seen and the goalies are hard to compare. 2011 Luongo was amazing and bubble Demko may yet reappear. End of the day today’s depths does bot match what 2011 had. Healthy and prepared this team can beat anyone in the league. We have some monsters on the back end to help protect…anything is possible but much like 2011 it will be a war to get to the final. Let’s go!!!!

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28 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Don't think they were deeper on the wings, or deeper on the D-corp side of things.   Albert's wasn't as good as Cole is.   And they didn't have a QHs.   Cole is probably our 7th D.    Maybe Myers, maybe Juulsen.    I'd say this is the first Canuck team since then, that had 7 legit NHL D's. 

 

    As for edgy, that was a weakness compared to other teams in 2011..   It was a bit edgy but not really that edgy.   And yes it's edgier than this one.    The way the sport has been going for a long time now.     Torres..this team doesn't have that.    Lappy as a deterrent is hilarious.   We still don't have that in the forward group.   Joshua isn't one either. 

 

Overall edge goaltending 2011.   Edge forward group 2024.   Maybe on the D corp, call it even.   Sure that 2011 would have liked Zadorov.   Bieksa as the pugilist was all we had.   Not much really, he stayed in his lane, not much compared to other teams.     Also i'd put Hronek = at least to Erhoff.      QHs is the biggest difference.    Salo wasn't close to prime Salo anymore.   And still made of Glass.   As for Glass he couldn't deal with the guys back then.  
 

That said the 2011 group was probably better overall.    They had their weaknesses too.    On a different thread went with the 2024 team, not the 94 or the 2011 one.  Because we all know how that ended up.   Those teams couldn't win a cup.   Nothing like the present. 

 

all good points, but for some reason I can't shake the idea that overall we have a bit less depth right now than then. Or maybe its just there's more league parity now and we don't feel quite as deep as back in 2011? not sure. 

 

Nice problem to have tho. 

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1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

all good points, but for some reason I can't shake the idea that overall we have a bit less depth right now than then. Or maybe its just there's more league parity now and we don't feel quite as deep as back in 2011? not sure. 

 

Nice problem to have tho. 

Parity existed then too.   It's not like there weren't a lot of good teams back then either.   We didn't get 130 points. 

 

Pretty sure it's not that.   But for sure get maybe we don't, that was a spectacular season. 

 

Could have a lot to do with a string of leading division titles, and playoff series prior to hitting it all right all at once.    Salo's stats look ugly (the minus) but we all know when he played the teams winning percentage went up ... but he wasn't Salo of 2-3 years prior either.   Most pencil him in as a top four, a lot pencil him is as "legit number 2" .. Is Cole today really much different?   Food for thought.    On close to his last legs let's be honest. 

 

   As somebody who's watched this team for a very long time, think that Mitchell was the missing link.    And that the 2011 team had issues, definitely did in the wings.   The same way some fingers are pointed at this current team, we don't have it all back then either.    We were a modest tier above the next up, not way way over the top.

 

 

 Personally, the closest I've seen to having it all, since COL 2001, and Detroit 2002, is TB.   Other than that, it's a mixed bag.    Some good-great teams don't win, other surprise teams do.  CHI is a close second. 

 

Wonder how much possum we've been playing the last few weeks.    2011 team was great.   Kesler was a machine, the Sedins were like two EPs.      Luongo was amazing.  So was Schnieder.   The D corp was good to solid all 3 pairings.   Not all as "number 2's" as sometime i've read on here.   But yes you could say all top

four, in the same vein as Zadarov, Soucy and Myers are top four.    Do people forget the crazy saves Luongo and Schnieder had to make?   Maybe they have. 

Edited by IBatch
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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Don't think they were deeper on the wings, or deeper on the D-corp side of things.   Albert's wasn't as good as Cole is.   And they didn't have a QHs.   Cole is probably our 7th D.    Maybe Myers, maybe Juulsen.    I'd say this is the first Canuck team since then, that had 7 legit NHL D's. 

This team has a huge advantage in that Hughes is Norris candidate/legit #1.  Issue is, the 2011 team have five legitimate top 4 defenseman.  Many of whom excelled defensively.  

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Think the main difference is the age of the core players... 

the 2024 team still have a lot of growing up to do, bar for Miller... 

 

I do think the 2011 team was more battle hardened (because they were older)...

They won the Presidents cup with most goals scored, least conceded and on paper should have demolished the Bruins....

 

But as Ibatch said they didn't win, so hopefully the 2024 team can go one better... 

They are definitely likely to get more opportunities...

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is this a regular season comparison or playoff?

Because in2011 our team was racked with injuries in the playoffs ( + the refs/department of safety/colon campbell were fully against us ) 

This year so far(knock knock on wood) we've been lucky with injuries. 

I would put Demko up against Luongo when both are at their best. If Demko regains his bubble game he's a whole lot better than Luo, who choked in 2011.

I think I'd take this year's defense too. 

I think this year's team has more scoring depth, grit.

I think Tocchet is the better coach. 

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2 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Think the main difference is the age of the core players... 

the 2024 team still have a lot of growing up to do, bar for Miller... 

 

I do think the 2011 team was more battle hardened (because they were older)...

They won the Presidents cup with most goals scored, least conceded and on paper should have demolished the Bruins....

 

But as Ibatch said they didn't win, so hopefully the 2024 team can go one better... 

They are definitely likely to get more opportunities...

 

Would be one heck of a fight between the two head coaches.🤪  Now Toc. clearly (imho) has the edge, but AV will go down swinging!  It would be like the classic Coxe vs Probert battle.  TONS of punches thrown (and connecting).🤣

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This year's team hasn't been quite as dominant as the 2010-1 one was, but it's not far behind.  That's a good thing:  the Canadian media were so jealous of us in 2010-1 that they didn't even bother to rein it in.  So let those power ranking blowhards continue to pretend we're not for real.  In a sneaky way, this team might be better positioned to get the job done.  We're not as reliant on the power play as the 2010-1 team was, and that's probably a good thing even though we need it to step up. Also this team seems more able to play multiple styles of hockey, including hard-nosed and physical.  Finally, we've had some adversity this year and have learned to right the ship quickly, something that is really important in the playoffs.  If injuries don't decimate us like they did to the 2010-1 team, I can see us finally getting over the top.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Parity existed then too.   It's not like there weren't a lot of good teams back then either.   We didn't get 130 points. 

 

Pretty sure it's not that.   But for sure get maybe we don't, that was a spectacular season. 

 

Could have a lot to do with a string of leading division titles, and playoff series prior to hitting it all right all at once.    Salo's stats look ugly, but we all know when he played the teams winning percentage went up ... but he wasn't Salo of 2-3 years prior either.   Most pencil him in as a top four, a lot pencil him is as "legit number 2" .. Is Cole today really much different?   Food for thought.    On close to his last legs let's be honest. 

 

   As somebody who's watched this team for a very long time, think that Mitchell was the missing link.    And that the 2011 team had issues, definitely did in the wings.   The same way some fingers are pointed at this current team, we don't have it all back then either.    We were a modest tier above the next up, not way way over the top.

 

 

 Personally, the closest I've seen to having it all, since COL 2001, and Detroit 2002, is TB.   Other than that, it's a mixed bag.    Some good-great teams don't win, other surprise teams do.  CHI is a close second. 

 

Wonder how much possum we've been playing the last few weeks.    2011 team was great.   Kesler was a machine, the Sedins were like two EPs.      Luongo was amazing.  So was Schnieder.   The D corp was good to solid all 3 pairings.   Not all as "number 2's" as sometime i've read on here.   But yes you could say all top

four, in the same vein as Zadarov, Soucy and Myers are top four.    Do people forget the crazy saves Luongo and Schnieder had to make?   Maybe they have. 

 

its pretty hard to compare imo, but this all sounds reasonable to me.

 

What I think I know, like all other teams expect maybe that 2001 Colorado team, is we will need a bit of luck on our side with injuries. Thats what cost us last time, imo.

 

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12 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

its pretty hard to compare imo, but this all sounds reasonable to me.

 

What I think I know, like all other teams expect maybe that 2001 Colorado team, is we will need a bit of luck on our side with injuries. Thats what cost us last time, imo.

 

Was going to say luck.   But didn't bother.    Yes it's going to take some luck.   And a lot of it.   Canucks likely need to wade through 4 contenders to win a cup this year.   Yikes.  

 

2011 was awesome until it wasn't.   The Boston series was a tragic ending to a fairy tale season.    Was praying TB would beat Thomas ... felt our team was much better designed to beat more of a pure skill team.  

 

Things I like about this one better,  seems like they have a better balance.  And especially not as reliant on the power player.    Always felt like those teams were Luongo, Sedins, Kesler in no particular order but if I had to do an order - that's it and each line gets closer to the one before it. 

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2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Was going to say luck.   But didn't bother.    Yes it's going to take some luck.   And a lot of it.   Canucks likely need to wade through 4 contenders to win a cup this year.   Yikes.  

 

2011 was awesome until it wasn't.   The Boston series was a tragic ending to a fairy tale season.    Was praying TB would beat Thomas ... felt our team was much better designed to beat more of a pure skill team.  

 

Things I like about this one better,  seems like they have a better balance.  And especially not as reliant on the power player.  

 

some guys also have the 'it' thing during the playoffs, I think Miller might be one of those guys. 

 

 

Edited by Bob Long
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8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

some guys also have the 'it' thing during the playoffs, I think Miller might be one of those guys. 

 

 

Yes.   And maybe someone  surprising as well.    Love that Allvin transformed the D.    The one we had in the bubble, really wasn't close to as good as the one we have now.   Teams that scare me are Dallas, CAR and FLD.   WNP a little too.    Not that EDM, LA and Vegas aren't worthy either, or COL.   Just not the same.     Canucks are in the group.    With some luck, who knows?    And we should be able to provide a decent team next year as well. 

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32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

its pretty hard to compare imo, but this all sounds reasonable to me.

 

What I think I know, like all other teams expect maybe that 2001 Colorado team, is we will need a bit of luck on our side with injuries. Thats what cost us last time, imo.

 

That and a level playing field wouldn't be a bad thing either. 

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15 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Yes.   And maybe someone  surprising as well.    Love that Allvin transformed the D.    The one we had in the bubble, really wasn't close to as good as the one we have now.   Teams that scare me are Dallas, CAR and FLD.   WNP a little too.    Not that EDM, LA and Vegas aren't worthy either, or COL.   Just not the same.     Canucks are in the group.    With some luck, who knows?    And we should be able to provide a decent team next year as well. 

 

Florida and also MacKinnon worry me. But that's why you play 4 rounds.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Was going to say luck.   But didn't bother.    Yes it's going to take some luck.   And a lot of it.   Canucks likely need to wade through 4 contenders to win a cup this year.   Yikes.  

 

2011 was awesome until it wasn't.   The Boston series was a tragic ending to a fairy tale season.    Was praying TB would beat Thomas ... felt our team was much better designed to beat more of a pure skill team.  

 

Things I like about this one better,  seems like they have a better balance.  And especially not as reliant on the power player.    Always felt like those teams were Luongo, Sedins, Kesler in no particular order but if I had to do an order - that's it and each line gets closer to the one before it. 

 

This is the biggest difference this year.  Compared to 2011.  The Western Conference competition.

We are a better team  than 2011 IMO.  In goal. On defence. And about the same up front, all things considered. The one thing we don't have is depth. So injury luck is paramount for us. 2011 had more depth but even that was drained by the end, especially with Rome kicked out. %^%#%@$. 

 

But we damn better be better today, because the other teams have also improved.  For me its about if we have improved enough, to compete with the other improved teams.  In general, hockey as gotten faster, more skilled, during the last decade. More players taking their summers off more seriously to train, not just vacation, as an example. Younger players more ready to step right in. etc. We've all seen this trend. All boats are rising. I think Canuck fans sometimes forget this.  So we are a better team, but its about being better than other better teams.  Just our luck that Edmonton and Winnipeg have finally decided to live up their potential this season. And of course Vegas and LA remain formidable.

 

Staying healthy is key. So our depth won't be an issue.  Then we can beat anyone I believe. Can't wait for playoffs to start!

 

 

 

 

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Just a comparison...

 

2010-11 Team @ Game 71 were 46-16-9 (on a 6 game winning streak, 8-2-0 in last 10) for 101 points.

2023-24 Team @ Game 71 are 45-18-8 (on a 3 game winning streak, 7-2-1 in last 10) for 98 points.

 

Pretty darn close...

 

2010-11 Team would go on to win 8 of the final 11 games finishing with 117 points. (8-3-0).

2023-24 Team would need to win 9.5 of the final 11 games to finish with 117 points (so 9-1-1).

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1 hour ago, kilgore said:

 

This is the biggest difference this year.  Compared to 2011.  The Western Conference competition.

We are a better team  than 2011 IMO.  In goal. On defence. And about the same up front, all things considered. The one thing we don't have is depth. So injury luck is paramount for us. 2011 had more depth but even that was drained by the end, especially with Rome kicked out. %^%#%@$. 

 

But we damn better be better today, because the other teams have also improved.  For me its about if we have improved enough, to compete with the other improved teams.  In general, hockey as gotten faster, more skilled, during the last decade. More players taking their summers off more seriously to train, not just vacation, as an example. Younger players more ready to step right in. etc. We've all seen this trend. All boats are rising. I think Canuck fans sometimes forget this.  So we are a better team, but its about being better than other better teams.  Just our luck that Edmonton and Winnipeg have finally decided to live up their potential this season. And of course Vegas and LA remain formidable.

 

Staying healthy is key. So our depth won't be an issue.  Then we can beat anyone I believe. Can't wait for playoffs to start!

 

 

 

 

EP, would have absolutely been destroyed.   QHs too.   The games changed.    These guys don't have to fight as hard today, as they did back then, the same way they didn't have to fight as hard in 2011, as they had to before (WCE/94).   Thankfully, Tochett changed that. 

 

Tochett (he should know) called them out because they don't take it as seriously as they once did.    In the off seasons.   Good grief, had better crews working labour jobs then the TB cup winning one that did their beach volleyball thing.   If you think that's  fitness and toughness is better today, I don't think your understand what those guys were doing back then.   And are today.    It's faster because they have more space (one less pass) and they don't have to worry about going infront of the net the same way.    And have better equipment.    Don't let the grainy VHS footage fool you. 


It's not as tough (JT Miller isn't a power forward in the 2000's, definitely not in the 90's, but is today), and these guys aren't in better shape.   And i've still not seen a faster all-star game then the one the 17 year old vet Gartner set a record doing. A dozen guys qualified or finishing at around 13.5.        Funny thing happens when you take certain things out of the game.     That's the way it trends.   TB beach volley ball was kind of embarrassing for the sport.   

 

As for the competition, yes they've got a tough group to go through.   Not that CHI and SJ were chopped liver.

 

Glad Tochett and Foote are running this rodeo.   

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I didnt think the Canucks could ever match the impact players they had in the Sedins-those guys were elite game breakers, but Hughes and Miller have taken it to another level.  I think EP can take it to another level as well if Garland/Hogz chemistry works.  

 

There were great opponents in 2011 but this years playoff teams, especially in the west seems like a juggernaut.

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2011 was deeper for sure and probably a bit better overall in every way, but just by a little bit in each area. The possible exceptions are the elite skaters we have may be better than 2011's. Miller is probably Sedin-tier and Petey is at least close, but they might be a little short. Hughes is obviously far better than Edler, Ehrhoff, or Hamhuis, our best three in 2011. But yeah as I said, the depth of 2011 makes them a better team IMO.

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1 hour ago, IBatch said:

EP, would have absolutely been destroyed.   QHs too.   The games changed.    These guys don't have to fight as hard today, as they did back then, the same way they didn't have to fight as hard in 2011, as they had to before (WCE/94).   Thankfully, Tochett changed that. 

 

Tochett (he should know) called them out because they don't take it as seriously as they once did.    In the off seasons.   Good grief, had better crews working labour jobs then the TB cup winning one that did their beach volleyball thing.   If you think that's  fitness and toughness is better today, I don't think your understand what those guys were doing back then.   And are today.    It's faster because they have more space (one less pass) and they don't have to worry about going infront of the net the same way.    And have better equipment.    Don't let the grainy VHS footage fool you. 


It's not as tough (JT Miller isn't a power forward in the 2000's, definitely not in the 90's, but is today), and these guys aren't in better shape.   And i've still not seen a faster all-star game then the one the 17 year old vet Gartner set a record doing. A dozen guys qualified or finishing at around 13.5.        Funny thing happens when you take certain things out of the game.     That's the way it trends.   TB beach volley ball was kind of embarrassing for the sport.   

 

As for the competition, yes they've got a tough group to go through.   Not that CHI and SJ were chopped liver.

 

Glad Tochett and Foote are running this rodeo.   

 

I will agree to disagree on fitness today not being better.  Even simply because of technology alone with new equipment, and with new fitness medical knowledge.  Diets. Then there is prospects taking their fitness way more seriously at a younger age, as the years have gone on.  Good veteran players play longer. Good young players play earlier.

 

If you mean 'toughness' sure I could agree there.  GINO GINO GINO. But thats different than fitness. You are conflating these. Along with fitness comes skating speeds, and endurance. 

 

Players have gotten larger over the decades, even as there is a reduction in players there solely for their toughness.  Even though size has plateaued lately. You can look up any of this. This article came out during Bennings reign. This was happening while we were going backwards.

https://thehockeynews.com/news/nhl-players-keep-getting-faster-stronger-and-more-skilled-how-far-can-hockey-evolution-go

 

Large players today have to also be able to play the game and skate. Including defencemen.

 

Another article about changes in hockey.  https://montrealgazette.com/health/diet-fitness/fitness-for-the-love-of-hockey-and-conditioning

 

A quote:

Players also got fitter. The positive association between aerobic fitness and recovery meant players with higher VO₂ max scores demonstrated less fatigue in the third period as well as a quicker recovery between games.

 

But also what's contributed to every team getting better are the anti-obstruction rule changes have helped develop speed as well. As well as stick technology to create a more wicked shot. Improved protection tech so more shots can be blocked safely.  Skates themselves have most likely evolved.  Just saying that hockey in general, through fitness tech, and equipment tech, has gotten better, more competitive. 


IMO Petey would have survived just fine in 2011,  Just like the svelte Gretzky survived fine in his era.  As long as he has support on the ice. Even if he and Miller would have a tougher time in moments...when they ran into a wall like Chara for instance, i  think  they'd find ways to use better skill and skating, and fitness levels as well, to overcome that aspect.

 

Its the "tough" slower D like Rome, Alberts that would get left behind in today's hockey. 

 

My only point is that all boats are rising. The plethora of teams today with expansion and the fear of a watered down product has not materialized. With more US players coming in, as well as more countries contributing to the pool together with better fitness tech, is making this possible. 

 

I agree with you in that I'm also stoked to have Tocchet and Foote steering this team.

 

 

 

 

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