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Penalties. The league hates us.


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18 minutes ago, DANJR said:

We have taken more penalties this series than Nashville...of course.

This is the history Vancouver has with the Refs.

From 1994 to 2024 in regular league play 
1157 games played.  -29 for net penalties.

Switch that over to the playoffs in the same time period
74 games played   -39 net penalties.   1/15 th the number of games 10 more penalties.

This is the same for virtually every time period of the Canucks history.

 

 

 

This season we are 

82 games played net +11 powerplays

Playoffs

5 games played -5 powerplays.


We will never win a cup With Roger's statue outside the arena.  The Ref's will continue to obliterate us on the scoresheet, then label us as undisciplined.


I won't even get into the placement of the calls.  Suffice to say Opposition gets the early calls. Canucks get make up calls late in the game to make the calls more balanced.  I wish I had the time and money to go through every game and do a detailed report.  It isn't a conspiracy theory it is facts.  Numbers don't lie.

The league is horribly run when it comes to officiating. These turds have zero accountability to anyone but themselves, and are protected by the league. The Canucks are one of many teams that are screwed by officials.

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I appreciate the work in pulling the stats - at a high level they’re pretty damning, and I agree there are further nuances such as late PPs given when game is out of reach, or PPs given that bridge periods, so just when they get set up, period ends.

 

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Fans should start singling out the refs who suck and start chanting their names instead of “ref you suck” might have a little more impact and shows that the viewers know what’s up and who the culprits are. 

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46 minutes ago, DANJR said:

We have taken more penalties this series than Nashville...of course.

This is the history Vancouver has with the Refs.

From 1994 to 2024 in regular league play 
1157 games played.  -29 for net penalties.

Switch that over to the playoffs in the same time period
74 games played   -39 net penalties.   1/15 th the number of games 10 more penalties.

This is the same for virtually every time period of the Canucks history.

 

 

 

This season we are 

82 games played net +11 powerplays

Playoffs

5 games played -5 powerplays.


We will never win a cup With Roger's statue outside the arena.  The Ref's will continue to obliterate us on the scoresheet, then label us as undisciplined.


I won't even get into the placement of the calls.  Suffice to say Opposition gets the early calls. Canucks get make up calls late in the game to make the calls more balanced.  I wish I had the time and money to go through every game and do a detailed report.  It isn't a conspiracy theory it is facts.  Numbers don't lie.

Doesn't tell us enough without comparatives against other teams. 

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30 minutes ago, NucksNation said:

Fans should start singling out the refs who suck and start chanting their names instead of “ref you suck” might have a little more impact and shows that the viewers know what’s up and who the culprits are. 

"Auger!" 

Good idea. Can't fine the fans. Unless Mao ZeBettman gets his way. 

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Every fanbase around the league has issues with the refs, and has portions of their fanbase that feels they're treated unfairly, this ain't unique to us. 

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30 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Doesn't tell us enough without comparatives against other teams. 

There are 5 teams that have major negative penalties drawn.  Most 20+ teams are almost at even from 1980 until 2024.

Vancouver is within the 5 who have major negative penalties.  Most those team have WAY more games played than us.  Oh and two of those teams are bruisers of the late 70's early 80's   Philly and NYI.  Another team is the Oilers, who loved to play shorthanded, because they killed teams short handed.   They would intentionally draw that penalty to get to 4 on 4.  Thus the rule change.  So out of those 5 teams Vancouver is the sole outlier.  The other team is Pheonix, who was so bad.  They only had -38 compared to our -74

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Every fanbase around the league has issues with the refs, and has portions of their fanbase that feels they're treated unfairly, this ain't unique to us. 

There is a difference saying we got screwed and penalties are essentailly even.

Big difference when the stats are not in your favour, year after year for decades.  I've shown that with the numbers.
I would go in even deeper detail, but no one is paying me to spend days to weeks to research decades of games to give even more difinintive proof.

Edited by DANJR
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6 minutes ago, DANJR said:

There is a difference saying we got screwed and penalties are essentailly even.

Big difference when the stats are not in your favour, year after year for decades.  I've shown that with the numbers.
I would go in even deeper detail, but no one is paying me to spend days to weeks to research decades of games to give even more difinintive proof.

You ever think that maybe we caused the penalties? 

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8 minutes ago, DANJR said:

There is a difference saying we got screwed and penalties are essentailly even.

Big difference when the stats are not in your favour, year after year for decades.  I've shown that with the numbers.
I would go in even deeper detail, but no one is paying me to spend days to weeks to research decades of games to give even more difinintive proof.

 

Even considering the 94-2024 sample size, I'm not really surprised. We missed the playoffs 14/30 of those seasons, and some of those seasons we were particularly lousy. If what you say is true, and we sit at -29 differential throughout that period, it's still not surprising when considering the variance in quality amongst the Canuck teams throughout this sample period. -29 over a 30 year period isn't really much all things considered. 

 

As for the playoffs, one would probably have to dig deeper, playoffs are a different animal entirely. This playoffs alone saw the Kings get 12 powerplays to Edmonton's 20, these kind of numbers add up cumulatively over time. Doughty didn't blame the refs for them losing in 5 though. At some point you have to question whether players are actually responsible for the penalties their team get or not, because a lot of the time they are. Even calls folks might describe as soft are called because a player has done something that could be called. 

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2 hours ago, DANJR said:

We have taken more penalties this series than Nashville...of course.

This is the history Vancouver has with the Refs.

From 1994 to 2024 in regular league play 
1157 games played.  -29 for net penalties.

Switch that over to the playoffs in the same time period
74 games played   -39 net penalties.   1/15 th the number of games 10 more penalties.

This is the same for virtually every time period of the Canucks history.

 

 

 

This season we are 

82 games played net +11 powerplays

Playoffs

5 games played -5 powerplays.


We will never win a cup With Roger's statue outside the arena.  The Ref's will continue to obliterate us on the scoresheet, then label us as undisciplined.


I won't even get into the placement of the calls.  Suffice to say Opposition gets the early calls. Canucks get make up calls late in the game to make the calls more balanced.  I wish I had the time and money to go through every game and do a detailed report.  It isn't a conspiracy theory it is facts.  Numbers don't lie.

1) our PP is trash, we are more deadly 5v5 than we are on the PP for whatever reason.

2) for as many bad calls there have been, theres been as many dumb penalties taken. 

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, DANJR said:

We have taken more penalties this series than Nashville...of course.

This is the history Vancouver has with the Refs.

From 1994 to 2024 in regular league play 
1157 games played.  -29 for net penalties.

Switch that over to the playoffs in the same time period
74 games played   -39 net penalties.   1/15 th the number of games 10 more penalties.

This is the same for virtually every time period of the Canucks history.

 

 

 

This season we are 

82 games played net +11 powerplays

Playoffs

5 games played -5 powerplays.


We will never win a cup With Roger's statue outside the arena.  The Ref's will continue to obliterate us on the scoresheet, then label us as undisciplined.


I won't even get into the placement of the calls.  Suffice to say Opposition gets the early calls. Canucks get make up calls late in the game to make the calls more balanced.  I wish I had the time and money to go through every game and do a detailed report.  It isn't a conspiracy theory it is facts.  Numbers don't lie.

And that's with us getting twice the power plays in the 2011 final.   Didn't remember anyone bitching and moaning about this sort of thing until then.   Since haven't had that many series.   And BTW, that's approximately one extra penalty every second  playoff games.   Hardly worth getting knicker's in a knot over.   There was some games where context mattered.   Roger Neilson for example.    And well Tyler Minor's says hello, sure glad we could kill a penalty in the bubble. 

 

Seriously goofy thread.   ANA won a cup despite getting 1 PP for every 3 given.   Why?  Because they weren't a bunch of chumps.   We weren't in the 80-90's or the 2000's either.   Why does this bother you?    The refs aren't picking on us. 

Edited by IBatch
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57 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Even considering the 94-2024 sample size, I'm not really surprised. We missed the playoffs 14/30 of those seasons, and some of those seasons we were particularly lousy. If what you say is true, and we sit at -29 differential throughout that period, it's still not surprising when considering the variance in quality amongst the Canuck teams throughout this sample period. -29 over a 30 year period isn't really much all things considered. 

 

As for the playoffs, one would probably have to dig deeper, playoffs are a different animal entirely. This playoffs alone saw the Kings get 12 powerplays to Edmonton's 20, these kind of numbers add up cumulatively over time. Doughty didn't blame the refs for them losing in 5 though. At some point you have to question whether players are actually responsible for the penalties their team get or not, because a lot of the time they are. Even calls folks might describe as soft are called because a player has done something that could be called. 

QHs isn't complaining either about the extra attention (abuse if that floats your boat).   This is a cringe worthy thread.   Wish we had a -100 because we were bigger, meaner and didn't give a f!ck.    That differential, the ANA ducks did all on their own more or less when they won a cup. 

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Just now, IBatch said:

The mustache speaks truth. 

 

yea there's been a couple of wtf calls, but really I can't whine too hard about the reffing this series. Game 1 they let Myers beat the crap out a few guys 😆

 

I guess there's always tonight for the ref's to prove me wrong, but if we keep going past round 1 and this was the level of officiating, I think its not bad. If we had this in 2011 vs the bean suckers we win the cup. 

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Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yea there's been a couple of wtf calls, but really I can't whine too hard about the reffing this series. Game 1 they let Myers beat the crap out a few guys 😆

 

I guess there's always tonight for the ref's to prove me wrong, but if we keep going past round 1 and this was the level of officiating, I think its not bad. If we had this in 2011 vs the bean suckers we win the cup. 

We couldn't score on the PP.   And let in too many shorties.  So don't think so.   Other than that, yep.   The hate for Boston should be directed to Tim Thomas.   He won it for them. 

Edited by IBatch
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2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

We couldn't score on the PP.   And let in too many shorties.  So don't think so.   Other than that, yep.   The hate for Boston should be directed to Tim Thomas.   He won it for them. 

 

it took a bunker prepper weirdo to do it .

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There is simply no arguing with cold hard statistics. Canadian teams make up about 1 in 5 NHL teams and have for the past 30 years. The odds here would be that each year has a (4/5) chance that an American team wins. We take (4/5)^30 and we get about a 0.1% chance of this occurring, or one in a thousand. (Another way to look at this is to take the chance of an American team winning in a given year, 80%, and multiplying it by the power of 30, which gives 0.1%)

 

This is statistically significant enough that the default position should be that there is some major factor preventing Canadian teams from winning the cup. Throw in the fact that it's clearly in the financial interest of the NHL that weaker markets win championships and we have a convergence of statistical evidence and business interest.

 

This isn't a situation of "every team complains about the refs", this is basic mathematics.

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I agree we take more penalties than a lot of other teams, but I'd love to see the stats era by era. It was only recently (last decade or so) that the Canucks coaching staff realized the disadvantage we have in our travel schedule (vs. a lot of other teams) and started to do something about it (psychology and physiology). Tired players will take lazy penalties...it's probably a small % more penalties due to being tired, but the habit is there. So any "extra" % of penalty stats that we take more than other teams would therefore need to be adjusted to account for the "tired" factor. But I overall do agree that we are probably in the red zone of teams in the league's supposedly unbiased eyes. It is entertainment after all so hard to get too upset...we just need to capitalize on our chances and do a good job of shutting down our opponent's chances, then there's nothing the refs can do to try to tilt the ice in another team's favour.

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