Rip The Mesh Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wing Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Dang this is a great deal, just a bit less cap hit than Slafkovsky's. He has the potential to hit a pt per game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 23 minutes ago, Wing said: Dang this is a great deal, just a bit less cap hit than Slafkovsky's. He has the potential to hit a pt per game. As he should to earn that sort of money in his RFA years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 Ottawa model. Banking on potential. That's a core contract. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post qwijjibo Posted August 31 Popular Post Share Posted August 31 (edited) The deferred salary to get the cap hit down seems sketchy as fuck. Not sure how the league allows that after the whole recapture thing. Apparently it's allowed in the CBA but if that doesn't violate the spirit of the salary cap I don't know what does. Edited August 31 by qwijjibo 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Don Brodka Jr Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) So much cap circumventing going on in this deal. I said it when Matty Beniers signed his deal & I'll say it again with this one.. The League is broken. Too many young guys being paid on "Potential" this whole situation is going to lead to another work stoppage. Edited August 31 by Don Brodka Jr 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 21 minutes ago, Don Brodka Jr said: So much cap circumventing going on in this deal. I said it when Matty Beniers signed his deal & I'll say it again with this one.. The League is broken. Too many young guys being paid on "Potential" this whole situation is going to lead to another work stoppage. It's been bothering me for close to a decade. RFA deals keep getting pushed closer and closer to UFA deals. The carrot is going fast. And serviceable players who provide 80% of what these guys do, are found holding the bag and taking taking 30-50% of the same contract money and term. For decades the system was third contract got term and the bigger bucks. Or even fourth. These guys now get paid if they are 21, 24 or 30. JT Miller is exactly how the league used to work. How many deals did Naslund have? And the Sedins for that matter. And those guys earned their deals. To me the only guys that should get 6-8 years are blue chip stars. Yes it could lead to another labour dispute. GM's simply can't help themselves. Always looking for the next angle. Right now and the past half decade is leaning towards paying 3rd contract money for 2nd contract deals. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 58 minutes ago, IBatch said: Ottawa model. Banking on potential. That's a core contract. seems like a good bet for a young RHC. They are still small up front and still need some depth d, not sure where the money will come from for that tho. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern_Nuck Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 6 minutes ago, IBatch said: It's been bothering me for close to a decade. RFA deals keep getting pushed closer and closer to UFA deals. The carrot is going fast. And serviceable players who provide 80% of what these guys do, are found holding the bag and taking taking 30-50% of the same contract money and term. For decades the system was third contract got term and the bigger bucks. Or even fourth. These guys now get paid if they are 21, 24 or 30. JT Miller is exactly how the league used to work. How many deals did Naslund have? And the Sedins for that matter. And those guys earned their deals. To me the only guys that should get 6-8 years are blue chip stars. Yes it could lead to another labour dispute. GM's simply can't help themselves. Always looking for the next angle. Right now and the past half decade is leaning towards paying 3rd contract money for 2nd contract deals. The league has changed. There was only 64 position players over the age of 33 last season.(2 per team). Statistically the odds are against a team now of a player still playing in the league at the end of an 8 year deal signed when 26 or older. Players and agents have realized this and maybe even the teams too. Prime is now 24 to 31 in most cases. I think the RFA term should be adjusted to either 5 years or a max age of 25. Drafting and development is so important. You can’t spend 4-5 years developing a player if you expect them to be a core player for more than 5-7 years 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 59 minutes ago, Bob Long said: seems like a good bet for a young RHC. They are still small up front and still need some depth d, not sure where the money will come from for that tho. Maybe. Will be interesting to see how many of these and similar deals work out. RFA isn't UFA. Although for whatever reason the two have blended beyond what is reasonable. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 53 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said: The league has changed. There was only 64 position players over the age of 33 last season.(2 per team). Statistically the odds are against a team now of a player still playing in the league at the end of an 8 year deal signed when 26 or older. Players and agents have realized this and maybe even the teams too. Prime is now 24 to 31 in most cases. Whoa slow down there cowboy. Are you sugesting that signing a slow-footed 28 yearold to an 8 year deal would be baaaaad? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 2 hours ago, qwijjibo said: The deferred salary to get the cap hit down seems sketchy as fuck. Not sure how the league allows that after the whole recapture thing. Apparently it's allowed in the CBA but if that doesn't violate the spirit of the salary cap I don't know what does. It’s part of the CBA so it’s not sketchy. It’s just never been done before. The NHL central registry approved it. Jarvis will get a $3.2 million deferred signing bonus on July 1, 2032. So the cap hit will be $400k per year cheaper over 8 years. This could be an avenue that Edmonton takes with Draisaitl and McDavid. Would be huge for Edmonton if both players agreed to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern_Nuck Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 minute ago, Hammertime said: Whoa slow down there cowboy. Are you sugesting that signing a slow-footed 28 yearold to an 8 year deal would be baaaaad? Depends on how much dead cap you wanna have when the dude is in the last 4 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 2 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said: Depends on how much dead cap you wanna have when the dude is in the last 4 years. I think the Jarvis deal will be a good one. But Guentzel and our sweet prince new contracts I think will be dogs in the last 4 years. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Northern_Nuck Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 3 minutes ago, Hammertime said: I think the Jarvis deal will be a good one. But Guentzel and our sweet prince new contracts I think will be dogs in the last 4 years. I think signing Brock Boeser to a long term deal with his lack of foot speed will be cap suicide too. Worse than Louis Eriksson even. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 hour ago, IBatch said: It's been bothering me for close to a decade. RFA deals keep getting pushed closer and closer to UFA deals. The carrot is going fast. And serviceable players who provide 80% of what these guys do, are found holding the bag and taking taking 30-50% of the same contract money and term. For decades the system was third contract got term and the bigger bucks. Or even fourth. These guys now get paid if they are 21, 24 or 30. JT Miller is exactly how the league used to work. How many deals did Naslund have? And the Sedins for that matter. And those guys earned their deals. To me the only guys that should get 6-8 years are blue chip stars. Yes it could lead to another labour dispute. GM's simply can't help themselves. Always looking for the next angle. Right now and the past half decade is leaning towards paying 3rd contract money for 2nd contract deals. Instead of complaining, I wonder if PA and co can get ahead of this game and sign those "serviceable players" who are playing on par with RFAs that haven't yet hit their potential but getting paid like it at a fraction of the cost. If we spend our money wisely, we could have amazing value contracts like Hughes, Miller, Demko and then round out the team with good value contracts so that we build a deep team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijjibo Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 31 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: It’s part of the CBA so it’s not sketchy. It’s just never been done before. The NHL central registry approved it. Jarvis will get a $3.2 million deferred signing bonus on July 1, 2032. So the cap hit will be $400k per year cheaper over 8 years. This could be an avenue that Edmonton takes with Draisaitl and McDavid. Would be huge for Edmonton if both players agreed to it. Just because it's a loophole thst exists doesn't mean it doesn't violate the spirit of the salary cap. Luongo's contract was legal under tge conditions of the cba at the time but it was clearly designed to circumvent the cap ceiling. The league warned teams not to use that loophole. I wonder if similar warnings will be issued here until it can be addressed in the next cba 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 49 minutes ago, qwijjibo said: Just because it's a loophole thst exists doesn't mean it doesn't violate the spirit of the salary cap. Luongo's contract was legal under tge conditions of the cba at the time but it was clearly designed to circumvent the cap ceiling. The league warned teams not to use that loophole. I wonder if similar warnings will be issued here until it can be addressed in the next cba There were other teams who also circumvented the cap who did not get punished. So, Vancouver was clearly targeted by the league. As long as Vancouver doesn't use this loophole no other team will be punished for it. Also, how exactly would you punish the team? You can't backdate a cap hit. With Luongo, it was easy because his contract was still in effect and he retired, so easy just to slap on a cap penalty for the remainder of the term. With Jarvis, it's not possible to do the same thing because they'd have to backdate the cap penalty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijjibo Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 34 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: There were other teams who also circumvented the cap who did not get punished. So, Vancouver was clearly targeted by the league. As long as Vancouver doesn't use this loophole no other team will be punished for it. Also, how exactly would you punish the team? You can't backdate a cap hit. With Luongo, it was easy because his contract was still in effect and he retired, so easy just to slap on a cap penalty for the remainder of the term. With Jarvis, it's not possible to do the same thing because they'd have to backdate the cap penalty. Who do you think got away with it? Other teams bought out the offending contracts and there were other teams that got hit with the recapture penalty (but to a lesser exent) . Vancouver knew there would be consequences and chose to try for a cup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakrami Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 4 hours ago, Don Brodka Jr said: So much cap circumventing going on in this deal. I said it when Matty Beniers signed his deal & I'll say it again with this one.. The League is broken. Too many young guys being paid on "Potential" this whole situation is going to lead to another work stoppage. Hmmmm 30 goal 70 points guy playing on their 1st line and produces in the playoffs for 7.9mil AAV? That's just market price, may be even underpaid. What betting on potential? lol. And teams selectively betting on 21-22 year olds with 8 year contracts does not lead to work stoppages. It is when all players are paid unsustainable salaries that lead to work stoppages. But the revenue sharing and salary cap is supposed to prevent that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastExpress Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: There were other teams who also circumvented the cap who did not get punished. So, Vancouver was clearly targeted by the league. As long as Vancouver doesn't use this loophole no other team will be punished for it. Also, how exactly would you punish the team? You can't backdate a cap hit. With Luongo, it was easy because his contract was still in effect and he retired, so easy just to slap on a cap penalty for the remainder of the term. With Jarvis, it's not possible to do the same thing because they'd have to backdate the cap penalty. They should have to take the 3.2 million deferred salary as Cap following year (2032-33) but perhaps even more years, like a buyout hit and non-transferable. He will be 30 and likely to continue playing even better hockey. He can go on to get another contract with another team? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EastCoastExpress Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 28 minutes ago, Drakrami said: Hmmmm 30 goal 70 points guy playing on their 1st line and produces in the playoffs for 7.9mil AAV? That's just market price, may be even underpaid. What betting on potential? lol. And teams selectively betting on 21-22 year olds with 8 year contracts does not lead to work stoppages. It is when all players are paid unsustainable salaries that lead to work stoppages. But the revenue sharing and salary cap is supposed to prevent that. The problem is he is getting 7.9 AVV but his cap hit will only be 7.5 the way they structured the 3.2 or 3.4M outside of his 8 years contract. You are correct that 7.9M is actually fair price. Dont understand why a few users on this site dont think BB06 is worth a similar contract! Miller is perfect example of player who ages better, more experience, and more fire in the 30's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) 4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: There were other teams who also circumvented the cap who did not get punished. So, Vancouver was clearly targeted by the league. As long as Vancouver doesn't use this loophole no other team will be punished for it. Also, how exactly would you punish the team? You can't backdate a cap hit. With Luongo, it was easy because his contract was still in effect and he retired, so easy just to slap on a cap penalty for the remainder of the term. With Jarvis, it's not possible to do the same thing because they'd have to backdate the cap penalty. The facts are his contract was heavily front loaded, was paid closer to what his actual worth was, during those peak Sedin years, and created a deal that was unlikely to be completed which it wasn't. Vancouver got all the benefit. JB didn't make a stink. The only other deal was an injured Hossa, a well documented skin condition that made it extremely difficult to continue, and pretty sure he collected his pay cheques. Luongo should have been leaving a lot more money on the table than he actually did. Maybe he wouldn't have retired right? Or maybe he would have gone on the LTIR, and this wouldn't have been an issue. Don't re-call a pile of teams offering decade long deals to circumvent the cap the way Luongo's was created. Fair market value for Luongo was much higher than what his AVV during his Canuck years. And he wasn't owed much at the end. MG, no way they'd have been able to do a deal without sacrificing something else pretty significant on the roster ... if we won a cup nobody would mind the recapture. Edited August 31 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted August 31 Share Posted August 31 (edited) 5 hours ago, Northern_Nuck said: I think signing Brock Boeser to a long term deal with his lack of foot speed will be cap suicide too. Worse than Louis Eriksson even. That would be a stretch. I also doubt he's going to get a scary cap percentage number like some suggest he might get too. He's earned a modest raise, with a good start and duplicate season. Otherwise it will start with a six and might be on someone else's team or traded then not our problem anymore. Edited August 31 by IBatch Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCupSyndrome Posted September 1 Share Posted September 1 8 hours ago, Hammertime said: I think the Jarvis deal will be a good one. But Guentzel and our sweet prince new contracts I think will be dogs in the last 4 years. IMHO, I don't think this will age well with respect to EP. He stumbled at the end of last year no doubt but I think he is motivated to earn the contract and win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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