Demko (Discussion)

[Toccfather]

I think we can all agree Demko is a vezina caliber goaltender. My question for you is how would you approach the situation with his injury history, one more year left on his deal and an emerging goaltender in Silovs? Do we hope he returns to form this season and try to strike a deal in the offseason to capitalize before he gets injured again or do we ride Demko based on his past track record? 

 

In my opinion if all goes well this season and he proves to be the solid top 5 goaltender we all know he's capable of, it would be risky taking the chance he gets a major injury in his contract year or if he returns to form and we do a long term extension with him. Either way, we have the major injury history hanging over the team. Silovs is the guy to take over next year. 

 

What do you feel we could expect in a trade back for the star goaltender?

 

What are your opinions? 

[Phil_314]

I'm not sure how feasible moving him would be, since with the news of the popliteus muscle injury I wonder if other teams would be wary about getting him without first doing their research.  We'd also likely want to hold onto him until we lock up Silovs, unless we get into a Swayman situation if Arturs does prove he's a #1, and I wonder if there is much history of dealing starters with injury issues because the upside is still there for when they're healthy (Price kept getting injured but he was far and away their best goalie; I do understand that the cap hit and NMC would've made it prohibitive to move him, but I would've assumed that the Canadiens would've wanted to keep him since he was phenomenal on their Cup run, and despite his injuries the Canucks probably trust Demko given how well he played in the bubble and thereafter).

[Toccfather]

30 minutes ago, Phil_314 said:

I'm not sure how feasible moving him would be, since with the news of the popliteus muscle injury I wonder if other teams would be wary about getting him without first doing their research.  We'd also likely want to hold onto him until we lock up Silovs, unless we get into a Swayman situation if Arturs does prove he's a #1, and I wonder if there is much history of dealing starters with injury issues because the upside is still there for when they're healthy (Price kept getting injured but he was far and away their best goalie; I do understand that the cap hit and NMC would've made it prohibitive to move him, but I would've assumed that the Canadiens would've wanted to keep him since he was phenomenal on their Cup run, and despite his injuries the Canucks probably trust Demko given how well he played in the bubble and thereafter).

Well Silovs would be a Rfa, so we would have negotiating rights. If Demmer has a tough season or even a mid one, we may not receive a package that we would expect. But, cap space is King and if management is adamant Silovs is the guy of the future, I'm sure we can allocate that money to finding a long term #3 D. 

[SuchaNuxtalgia]

Really almost feels like Demmer is C Schneids 2.0

[qwijjibo]

Between a rock and a hard place with Demko. If he gets and stays healthy you keep him.  If not, he's worthless in a trade. Either way there's no trade bonanza incoming 

[Phil_314]

3 hours ago, Toccfather said:

Well Silovs would be a Rfa, so we would have negotiating rights. If Demmer has a tough season or even a mid one, we may not receive a package that we would expect. But, cap space is King and if management is adamant Silovs is the guy of the future, I'm sure we can allocate that money to finding a long term #3 D. 

True that we'd have negotiating rights, but that only matters presuming he doesn't play hardball if Arturs does break out.
At 1 year and $5 million left after this season, if Demko does have recurring injuries or struggles, we might as well hold onto him and possibly sell high at TDL, but I hate to break it to you that he probably won't get too much of a return (probably at most late 1st and another average pick/ prospect, which would make for part of the package to secure a #3 D but don't hope for too much if you are expecting a trade).  That being said, if Demko's healthy, best believe we let him and Silovs duke it out for the lion's share of the starts and we'd be keeping him in that case. 

[Toccfather]

2 hours ago, Phil_314 said:

True that we'd have negotiating rights, but that only matters presuming he doesn't play hardball if Arturs does break out.
At 1 year and $5 million left after this season, if Demko does have recurring injuries or struggles, we might as well hold onto him and possibly sell high at TDL, but I hate to break it to you that he probably won't get too much of a return (probably at most late 1st and another average pick/ prospect, which would make for part of the package to secure a #3 D but don't hope for too much if you are expecting a trade).  That being said, if Demko's healthy, best believe we let him and Silovs duke it out for the lion's share of the starts and we'd be keeping him in that case. 

Cap space has value as well. I would assume the package would be a bit better than what Boston received for Ullmark. 

[Phil_314]

7 hours ago, Toccfather said:

Cap space has value as well. I would assume the package would be a bit better than what Boston received for Ullmark. 

Given his increasing injury history, it might decrease his value?  Ullmark also just won the Vezina (though I couldn't help but wonder what they could've gotten for him if they traded him after his win and then ran with Swayman then, although teams would rarely give up on a guy like that at his peak).

[Bob Long]

Lock him up on another team friendly deal if at all possible. 

[Alflives]

44 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

Lock him up on another team friendly deal if at all possible. 

Yup. Not too sure what a new Demko deal will look like but now would be the ideal time to get it done. Providing, of course, it can be insured. Don’t want to pull a “Benning”. 
If insurance covers would 7 times 7 be fair? Team takes a chance and Demko gets security. 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Yup. Not too sure what a new Demko deal will look like but now would be the ideal time to get it done. Providing, of course, it can be insured. Don’t want to pull a “Benning”. 
If insurance covers would 7 times 7 be fair? Team takes a chance and Demko gets security. 

 

he's not some weirdo with issues, he's shown he can step up under pressure, so if they finally have the right maintenance routine for him he could be great for a long time.

 

Silovs is great, but he's still pretty young and we don't know if he's a legit 50+ game guy or if he has his own injury issues, etc.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

Can someone remind me? When's the last time a Goalie brought a lot back in a trade? 

Luongo from Florida?

Edited September 30 by Ghostsof1915

[IBatch]

8 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Can someone remind me? When's the last time a Goalie brought a lot back in a trade? 

Luongo from Florida?

And after that a 10th overall who became Horvat.   So maybe we aren't so bad at doing this.   

Edited October 1 by IBatch

[Hammertime]

On 9/25/2024 at 1:01 PM, qwijjibo said:

Between a rock and a hard place with Demko. If he gets and stays healthy you keep him.  If not, he's worthless in a trade. Either way there's no trade bonanza incoming 

So tropical vacation sipping margaritas or Titan submarine.

[canucks curse]

On 9/25/2024 at 12:51 PM, SuchaNuxtalgia said:

Really almost feels like Demmer is C Schneids 2.0

tbh, if they do not understand the injury then how can they say when he will return...if ever....I get the sinking feeling his career is close to over 

[SuchaNuxtalgia]

46 minutes ago, canucks curse said:

tbh, if they do not understand the injury then how can they say when he will return...if ever....I get the sinking feeling his career is close to over 

I'm waiting 'til about mid-season to glance at that abyss..just hope the puckGawds give us a break for once...

[wai_lai416]

On 9/26/2024 at 7:31 AM, Alflives said:

Yup. Not too sure what a new Demko deal will look like but now would be the ideal time to get it done. Providing, of course, it can be insured. Don’t want to pull a “Benning”. 
If insurance covers would 7 times 7 be fair? Team takes a chance and Demko gets security. 

0 chance he agrees to 7x7.. he'll literally get 7x7 in ufa easy even if he's average.. unless he suffers a career ending injury.. chance of that prolly slim to none.. you can't even extend him till next summer lol.. by then swayman and shesterkin will have already reset the market and demko will be priced over 8.5 easy

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

0 chance he agrees to 7x7.. he'll literally get 7x7 in ufa easy even if he's average.. unless he suffers a career ending injury.. chance of that prolly slim to none.. you can't even extend him till next summer lol.. by then swayman and shesterkin will have already reset the market and demko will be priced over 8.5 easy

Saros and Hellebuyck, also set the bar.   Those two guys are absolute mules though, can play 60-65 games year after year.    These will be two recent UFA comps to consider.   Five current goalies make more then 6.4.    7.74 and 8.5 for these guys.   Add 4% for cap going up next season, maybe 5%.   To whatever would be fair market value for Demko.   He's no Carey Price, as arguably the best player in the planet for a stretch, winning Hart's and Vezina's.    Hellebuyck also set the market, the most consistent goalie the last half decade and two Vezina's in the trophy case.   

 

Demko still has to prove he's not injury prone.   That's a significant knock on him.   To get what they did, he's going to need a healthy playoff run in there, and play starters minutes.   Otherwise something like Markstrom got plus his 10% for inflation seems like a fair offer too.   If it starts with an 8, Demko will have had to do something more right?   And also prove he's still got it and injuries haven't taken a toll, which they inevitably do for goalies.    Some can adjust styles and keep going (Rinne), others can't.   The 7 years is a sticky point.   More than the 7-8 per isn't at all unrealistic.    Personally feel 5/6 years is more reasonable unless something special happens this season.   He's not a spring chicken anymore. 

 

Shesterkin and Swayman both have  more at  younger age's then Demko managed.  Term deals for them are safer bets.   And Swayman is still a gamble.   Also doubt Swayman gets what he's asking, as for Shesterkin, overrated last season in some rankings (others acknowledge this and are more realistic), he's not far of Sorokin minus his one off Vezina which he's failed to duplicate.   Expect his deal to be something like 9.5 x 8.   Swayman, won't even guess.   Think they should take him to arbitration again if he won't sign the Saros deal.  

 

1. Bobrovsky 10 

2. Vasilevksy 9.5

3. Hellebuyck 8.5

Those three have a large trophy case amongst themselves and a tier about the rest.

 

4. Sorokin (RFA/UFA 8.25

5.  Saros 7.74 UFA

 

Demko doesn't belong with any of those guys yet.  Not even Saros, games played matter a lot when weighing starters.    The above guys know proving they have that jam.    Don't think @Alflivesis far off as far as overall dollars go.   Instead it could be done over 5 or 6 years though.   Something like 9.25 x 5 or 8.5 x 6.     If he wants term, 7 x 7 is actually pretty fair.    One healthy season in the  bunch.  61 and 50 games as the high water marks, the 50 game season, was "too much" for his body.  The rest in the low 30's.   Not exactly a great bargaining position. 

 

  If anyone ever needed Gary Robert's, it's him.   For all his mental strength's he just can't seem to get that the gym is his best friend.  Add some muscles.  Even in the AHL he missed significant time.   It's a pattern at this point.   

Edited Friday at 09:56 AM by IBatch

[IBatch]

As for the OP.   Best thing for the team would be Silovs making Demko expendable.   Unlikely.   But one can hope.   Had the same high hopes during the goalie graveyard days too.  PTSD to this day watching former starters run through and flail (aside from Essensa), and young guys like Hirsch, Skudra (best of the bunch) and Weekes just never put it together.    A "healthy for the playoffs" Demko doesn't sound like a ton of fun either.    Have to make the playoffs too. 

Edited Friday at 10:06 AM by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Saros and Hellebuyck, also set the bar.   Those two guys are absolute mules though, can play 60-65 games year after year.    These will be two recent UFA comps to consider.   Five current goalies make more then 6.4.    7.74 and 8.5 for these guys.   Add 4% for cap going up next season, maybe 5%.   To whatever would be fair market value for Demko.   He's no Carey Price, as arguably the best player in the planet for a stretch, winning Hart's and Vezina's.    Hellebuyck also set the market, the most consistent goalie the last half decade and two Vezina's in the trophy case.   

 

Demko still has to prove he's not injury prone.   That's a significant knock on him.   To get what they did, he's going to need a healthy playoff run in there, and play starters minutes.   Otherwise something like Markstrom got plus his 10% for inflation seems like a fair offer too.   If it starts with an 8, Demko will have had to do something more right?   And also prove he's still got it and injuries haven't taken a toll, which they inevitably do for goalies.    Some can adjust styles and keep going (Rinne), others can't.   The 7 years is a sticky point.   More than the 7-8 per isn't at all unrealistic.    Personally feel 5/6 years is more reasonable unless something special happens this season.   He's not a spring chicken anymore. 

 

Shesterkin and Swayman both have  more at  younger age's then Demko managed.  Term deals for them are safer bets.   And Swayman is still a gamble.   Also doubt Swayman gets what he's asking, as for Shesterkin, overrated last season in some rankings (others acknowledge this and are more realistic), he's not far of Sorokin minus his one off Vezina which he's failed to duplicate.   Expect his deal to be something like 9.5 x 8.   Swayman, won't even guess.   Think they should take him to arbitration again if he won't sign the Saros deal.  

 

1. Bobrovsky 10 

2. Vasilevksy 9.5

3. Hellebuyck 8.5

Those three have a large trophy case amongst themselves and a tier about the rest.

 

4. Sorokin (RFA/UFA 8.25

5.  Saros 7.74 UFA

 

Demko doesn't belong with any of those guys yet.  Not even Saros, games played matter a lot when weighing starters.    The above guys know proving they have that jam.    Don't think @Alflivesis far off as far as overall dollars go.   Instead it could be done over 5 or 6 years though.   Something like 9.25 x 5 or 8.5 x 6.     If he wants term, 7 x 7 is actually pretty fair.    One healthy season in the  bunch.  61 and 50 games as the high water marks, the 50 game season, was "too much" for his body.  The rest in the low 30's.   Not exactly a great bargaining position. 

 

  If anyone ever needed Gary Robert's, it's him.   For all his mental strength's he just can't seem to get that the gym is his best friend.  Add some muscles.  Even in the AHL he missed significant time.   It's a pattern at this point.   

only issue with hellebuyck is he is absolutely horrendous in the playoff. outside of his 1st playoff.. he almost have a negative saves above average every playoff.. and last 2 was a complete disaster. if hellebuyck is a playoff performer.. he'd be in the vasilevksy range of 9.5 also his age prolly factored into it too they prolly took that extra 8th year to bring the cap down.. they are prolly rebuilding by then so prolly dont give a fuk about his contract or off load to a bottom feeder for a 1st or something if they are still contending. 

 

I'm not sold on Demko unless he's signing in the 7 mil range unlucky I have no interest in signing him long term.. just like I had no interest in signing maelstrom long term when his contract came up.. most goalie north of 30 ain't gonna be playing at the elite rate they are in the mid 20s.. and Demko haven't proven he can play more than 50 games combined regular season/playoff.. he had 1 season at 60+ games.. but if u were watching.. his play deteriorated after 50 games due to fatigue.. so I'm not even sure if he can play in the playoff at his peak form.

[Elias Pettersson]

On 10/4/2024 at 1:08 AM, wai_lai416 said:

0 chance he agrees to 7x7.. he'll literally get 7x7 in ufa easy even if he's average.. unless he suffers a career ending injury.. chance of that prolly slim to none.. you can't even extend him till next summer lol.. by then swayman and shesterkin will have already reset the market and demko will be priced over 8.5 easy

 

Demko has to actually make it to next summer healthy in order to get an extension.  Problem with Demko is that this injury is unique to goalies, don't think a goalie has ever had this injury before.  So we don't know how it will affect his game.  He may not be the same Demko when he gets back, the injury might hinder his play.  Even if the injury hinders his play by only 2-3%, that may be enough for him to lose his edge as a Vezina trophy caliber goalie.  

 

We will see how Demko plays this year.  If he's back to his old self, then his trade value will increase.  I doubt Allvin is going to extend him regardless.  I'm sure the hope is that Silovs becomes a legit starter in the NHL this season.  If that is the case, then trading Demko won't be an issue.  However, if Demko loses his Vezina caliber edge, then we probably don't get much for him, maybe a draft pick and a prospect.