[Signing] Stars extend Otter

[Coconuts]

 

 

 

 

 

[Coconuts]

Deals only gonna keep going up, particularly once Shesterkin gets whatever he gets, good for them 

[Integra250]

Looks like Demko will get something similar assuming he's healthy and back to top form.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Integra250 said:

Looks like Demko will get something similar assuming he's healthy and back to top form.

 

I expect it'll be more 8.75-9.5 if happens, he's still got this season and next to go before he needs a new deal 

 

Depends on how the cap jumps, and I do expect Shesterkin will raise the bar further for all starters 

[Master Mind]

Both at 8.25m, I'd easily take Oettinger over Swayman

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Master Mind said:

Both at 8.25m, I'd easily take Oettinger over Swayman

 

Agreed, without the Texas tax bit Otter would be higher too

[Caboose]

15 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

Both at 8.25m, I'd easily take Oettinger over Swayman

 

Have seen some struggles with both in the post-season at times. I think this is a coin flip. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Looking the depth chart for both teams I'm not surprised.

[MatchesMalone]

57 minutes ago, Master Mind said:

Both at 8.25m, I'd easily take Oettinger over Swayman

 

Interesting. I wonder if you're thinking a little too much in terms of fantasy, as Dallas would obviously be the more appealing team affiliation.

 

I'd take Swayman, but would be close. To say either "easily" seems gratuitous to me.

[Master Mind]

24 minutes ago, MatchesMalone said:

 

Interesting. I wonder if you're thinking a little too much in terms of fantasy, as Dallas would obviously be the more appealing team affiliation.

 

I'd take Swayman, but would be close. To say either "easily" seems gratuitous to me.

 

Both are the same age, and play behind good systems, but Oettinger has proven himself as a quality #1 goalie, and has had more playoff success. Better overall resume, and he's the better talent if I had to rely on one of them for any given game.

[DeNiro]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

I expect it'll be more 8.75-9.5 if happens, he's still got this season and next to go before he needs a new deal 

 

Depends on how the cap jumps, and I do expect Shesterkin will raise the bar further for all starters 

Oettinger is like 3 years younger so that will factor in.

 

But yea probably looking like 8-9 if he can get back healthy and playing regularly.

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Oettinger is like 3 years younger so that will factor in.

 

But yea probably looking like 8-9 if he can get back healthy and playing regularly.

 

It's true, but I believe he was also an RFA whereas Demko's expiring deal will have him being a UFA.

 

Not that I think there's a chance Demko won't be back, assuming he's healthy and playing well going forward, but it's still a different negotiation. 

 

I do think Swayman, and then Ullmark, alterered the market. I also think the looming Shesterkin extension is  influencing clubs like Dallas to get their tenders locked in before the bar is raised again. 

[Stierlitz]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

Agreed, without the Texas tax bit Otter would be higher too

Hmm something about Texas tax advantage:

 

[Stierlitz]

Some more about Texas state income taxes:

 

 

[Coconuts]

16 minutes ago, Stierlitz said:

Hmm something about Texas tax advantage:

 

 

Going off their tool, which is found below, that tax difference between Dallas and Vancouver on an 8.25M deal would be $1,353,717 annually 

 

Whereas the difference between Dallas and Boston is closer to 400k

 

https://cardinalpointathleteadvisors.com/nhl-tax-calculator/

 

Edited October 17, 2024 by Coconuts

[MatchesMalone]

2 hours ago, Master Mind said:

 

Both are the same age, and play behind good systems, but Oettinger has proven himself as a quality #1 goalie, and has had more playoff success. Better overall resume, and he's the better talent if I had to rely on one of them for any given game.

 

Fair enough. I mean I disagree but I'm not invested enough to argue much about it. I'm useless when it comes to scouting goalies by eye. But by most of the stats and measures I use, Swayman seems the slightly better long-term option. Oettinger is more proven, sure, but I think more important is a. who's the better goalie right now and b. who will be the better goalie over the next eight years. It was mostly just the "easily" I disagreed with anyway.

[PeteyBOI]

how can we turn this into a elias pettesson thread?

[Diamonds]

1 hour ago, MatchesMalone said:

 

Fair enough. I mean I disagree but I'm not invested enough to argue much about it. I'm useless when it comes to scouting goalies by eye. But by most of the stats and measures I use, Swayman seems the slightly better long-term option. Oettinger is more proven, sure, but I think more important is a. who's the better goalie right now and b. who will be the better goalie over the next eight years. It was mostly just the "easily" I disagreed with anyway.

I'm not sure if I would argue the "easily" part, but I also think Oettinger has earned this contract more than Swayman has earned his. Last season was a down year for Oettinger, however Swayman has never played more than 44 games in a season. Oettinger only played less than that his covid-shortened rookie season. Two seasons ago Oettinger played 62 games and finished 5th in Norris voting. Swayman only played 37 games that season.

 

Swayman has shown that he can play at an elite level when he has an elite partner to back him up, but is unproven as a starter as he has always had a security blanket. On the other hand, Oettinger has shown he can play at an elite level while also shouldering a heavy workload. Also, if you're talking about who the better goalie is right now, it's an incredibly small sample size, but in 3 games Oettinger already has a shutout and a .948 save percentage and Swayman is sporting a .893 save percentage (obviously being a little tongue in check here as it's way to small of a sample size for any real analysis).

[Snoop Hogg]

[DeNiro]

7 hours ago, Stierlitz said:

Some more about Texas state income taxes:

 

 

Bet he can make more in endorsements in Boston though.

 

There are benefits to being in bigger markets.

[GrammaInTheTub]

Demko falls in line with Oettinger and Swayman. He’s shown in spurts he can hang with the Helleybucks, but he has his injury concerns. His health and performance upon return, in addition to cap increases, will determine the final figure obviously. Shesterkins extension is likely to push Demko above Oettinger and Swayman if he comes back to form. 

[N4ZZY]

4 hours ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

Demko falls in line with Oettinger and Swayman. He’s shown in spurts he can hang with the Helleybucks, but he has his injury concerns. His health and performance upon return, in addition to cap increases, will determine the final figure obviously. Shesterkins extension is likely to push Demko above Oettinger and Swayman if he comes back to form. 

Issue is with whether he can stay healthy. That's the question moving forward. 

 

[IBatch]

18 hours ago, PeteyBOI said:

how can we turn this into a elias pettesson thread?

Thanks !  I will do it for you.   EP after his first (only?) 100 point season, agent was asked about what sort of "deal" he would get his next contract.  "Somewhere in the oder of MT's range" was his answer paraphrased, actually "MT" paraphrased really, he told us then.   Who of course plays for Miami and just scored 100 points in CAL, then signed a 9.5 x 8 deal.    EP was on track to duplicating that, 3rd star of the month in January and then got into a bit of a funk, Allvin and the fanbase figured it was about his looming contract and all the stress about how many garages he might need for his future car collection,   signs a contract that is virtually identical NET TAX pay as MT got, plus the 5% pay hike!   Literally the same deal.     So there you go.   Funny I don't tweet or do any other social media but do understand basic arithmetic, and for about a decade have been bringing this shit up, and only the past year or so is it getting the proper scrutiny.   I hope more are going to start doing that too.   It's nice that folks are finally starting to get that the discrepancy is there.  Add the strength of the US dollar compared to the CAN, well, it goes the exact opposite of what some think it does on this site - each dollar or cent is just a zero.   Those quarters, dimes nickels and pennie's add up fast..who wouldn't want to be paid in US funds really, but at 36.6% instead of 53% plus isn't a level playing field.   Don't care how less snowy(rainy) or sunny fun fest things are.    Add that to the fact the USA keeps taking our market share away as far as players go... well.   Yikes. 

 

Edit:  At least Brian Burke has the balls to say it like is.   And that no Canadian franchise will win a cup until they pay players based on net tax (in a cap system).  

Edited October 18, 2024 by IBatch

[Coconuts]

14 hours ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

Demko falls in line with Oettinger and Swayman. He’s shown in spurts he can hang with the Helleybucks, but he has his injury concerns. His health and performance upon return, in addition to cap increases, will determine the final figure obviously. Shesterkins extension is likely to push Demko above Oettinger and Swayman if he comes back to form. 

 

I agree, but Demko's deal is up in two years and he'll benefit from cap increases imo 

 

There's also a tax disparity between what him, Swayman, and Otter will all pay, the difference between what Demko and the other two pay isn't insignificant

 

The difference in tax on an 8.25 between Vancouver and Dallas is roughly 1.35M, the difference between Vancouver and Boston is roughly 940k

 

Then there's the Shesterkin factor 

 

If he stays healthy and plays well, yeah, he's probably in the Otter/Swayman tier, but realistically his cap hit will be a decent chunk larger, and I think it would be even without the Shesterkin factor 

 

Obviously there are likely ways to mitigate tax losses, but I do think the tax disparity will reflect in his cap hit 

Edited October 18, 2024 by Coconuts

[GrammaInTheTub]

33 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I agree, but Demko's deal is up in two years and he'll benefit from cap increases imo 

 

There's also a tax disparity between what him, Swayman, and Otter will all pay, the difference between what Demko and the other two pay isn't insignificant

 

The difference in tax on an 8.25 between Vancouver and Dallas is roughly 1.35M, the difference between Vancouver and Boston is roughly 940k

 

Then there's the Shesterkin factor 

 

If he stays healthy and plays well, yeah, he's probably in the Otter/Swayman tier, but realistically his cap hit will be a decent chunk larger, and I think it would be even without the Shesterkin factor 

 

Obviously there are likely ways to mitigate tax losses, but I do think the tax disparity will reflect in his cap hit 

Agree