Popular Post Kevin Biestra Posted October 22 Popular Post Share Posted October 22 (edited) This isn't mega headline news...but I read Jeremy Roenick's autobiography and in it he lists the five goalies who were the hardest to score on in his career. Our boy Kirk McLean made the list at 4th place. Thought it was worth a mention for those who tend to underrate him or underappreciate his career, especially in the post-Luongo era. The book as a whole...worth a read, not a whole lot above average but not bad. Other takeaways... - Roenick thinks Marc Crawford is a dick. - Had no respect for Don Hay as a coach. - He really hates Patrick Marleau, entirely because Marleau played with no heart and emotion in his opinion, and he places him on par with the players he hates because they actually were jerks. - I was a little embarrassed for him when in the book he more or less asks to have his jersey retired by the Blackhawks. Anyway I have yet to cross paths with a hockey memoir that wasn't worth finishing. For some of the best off the top of my head if anyone wants to read... - Tretiak - The Legend - Gordie Howe - Ken Dryden - The Game - Theoren Fleury - Grant Fuhr, Jean Beliveau and Clint Malarchuk were pretty good. Edited October 23 by Kevin Biestra 2 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Western Red Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 Thanks for the insight. I really dislike JR, so it makes me think Maroon is more of a cool guy haha. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteyBOI Posted October 22 Share Posted October 22 thanks for this i really enjoyed brian burkes book 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 22 Author Share Posted October 22 (edited) 28 minutes ago, PeteyBOI said: thanks for this i really enjoyed brian burkes book Yeah that's one I wanted to read. Haven't read many from the management side, though Ken Dryden did write a good biography of Scotty Bowman (among other books, he really has had a productive second and third act of life). Burke tells stories well on camera so I imagine he's at least as good in print. I suppose maybe I'll get to Messier and Keenan at some point...but they are both low priority. I don't expect the truth from Keenan on several things and Messier...well, he has been in love with his own legend since 1994. In the second half of the 90s he went from one of my favorite to one of my least favorite hockey players. Keenan's might be like reading Liberace's autobiography while he was in the closet, with Keenan trying to not come off as a legitimate sadist. How will Keenan justify scratching Hall of Famer Dale Hawerchuk for the game his dying grandmother came to watch. That said, Roenick says Keenan has a big heart and is a good guy. I doubt they'll ever get written but I would be interested in reading if books ever came down the pike from Randy Gregg (actual doctor during his career and a Canuck for the final act of it), Jim Kyte (is deaf), Mike Sillinger or Brent Ashton or any other 10-ish team guy who wore seemingly every jersey, Ken Morrow (1980 Miracle on Ice and the Islanders dynasty), and some others. Same with guys who achieved at a very high level as a player and then as a coach or GM (Bill Barber, Rick Tocchet, Craig Ramsay, Jacques Lemaire, Patrick Roy, Paul MacLean, Brian Sutter). Somebody should write a book about Cowboy Bill Flett from the 70s. Also, Ann and Nancy Wilson from Heart have a book / autobiography where they take turns throughout recounting events and periods of time. The six Sutter brothers who played in the NHL (and seventh who was supposedly the best hockey player of them all but stayed at home to help on the farm like the older brother from Youngblood) could probably write a good book about the 70s, 80s and 90s in such a fashion. Edited October 23 by Kevin Biestra 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NewbieCanuckFan Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: This isn't mega headline news...but I read Jeremy Roenick's autobiography and in it he lists the five goalies who were the hardest to score on in his career. Our boy Kirk McLean made the list at 4th place. Thought it was worth a mention for those who tend to underrate him or underappreciate his career, especially in the post-Luongo era. The book as a whole...worth a read, not a whole lot above average but not bad. Other takeaways... - Roenick thinks Marc Crawford is a dick. - He really hates Patrick Marleau, entirely because Marleau played with no heart and emotion in his opinion, and he places him in the category of players he hates because they actually were jerks. - Was a little embarrassed for him when in the book he more or less asks to have his jersey retired by the Blackhawks. Anyway I have yet to cross paths with a hockey memoir that wasn't worth finishing. For some of the best off the top of my head if anyone wants to read... - Tretiak - The Legend - Gordie Howe - Ken Dryden - The Game - Theoren Fleury - Grant Fuhr, Jean Beliveau and Clint Malarchuk were pretty good. I always have a soft spot for Fleury even if he seems to have gone off the deep end politically. You can't have gone thru the abuse went thru when he was just a teen without having real emotional scars. Edited October 23 by NewbieCanuckFan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 23 Author Share Posted October 23 (edited) 31 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said: I always have a soft spot for Fleury even if he seems to have gone off the deep end politically. You can't have gone thru the abusive went thru when he was just a teen without having real emotional scars. I am a big Theoren Fleury supporter. I don't care about his politics...he can believe whatever he wants. I really didn't like him when he was playing...but have to respect him in the aftermath, even moreso in terms of making the NHL at his size plus the additional handicap of what happened to him and Sheldon Kennedy. Guy should have been in the Hall of Fame for at least a decade already. That's leaving out being the best First Nations player of all time not named Bryan Trottier. I guess some argument could be made there for Reggie Leach, who should probably ALSO be in the Hall of Fame and isn't. Leach is one of the few 60 goal scorers not in the Hall (along with 70 goal scorer Bernie Nicholls) but Leach was a key (maybe the key) member of the Broad Street Bully Flyers' Stanley Cup runs to the final (his playoff goals record still hasn't been broken I don't think). All Leach is missing is career totals / longevity. Edited October 23 by Kevin Biestra 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boudrias Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 14 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: I am a big Theoren Fleury supporter. I don't care about his politics...he can believe whatever he wants. I really didn't like him when he was playing...but have to respect him in the aftermath, even moreso in terms of making the NHL at his size plus the additional handicap of what happened to him and Sheldon Kennedy. Guy should have been in the Hall of Fame for at least a decade already. That's leaving out being the best First Nations player of all time not named Bryan Trottier. I guess some argument could be made there for Reggie Leach, who should probably ALSO be in the Hall of Fame and isn't. Leach is one of the few 60 goal scorers not in the Hall (along with 70 goal scorer Bernie Nicholls) but Leach was a key (maybe the key) member of the Broad Street Bully Flyers' Stanley Cup runs to the final (his playoff goals record still hasn't been broken I don't think). All Leach is missing is career totals / longevity. My kneejerk reaction was to dislike Fleury because he was a Flame, afterall. I changed over time as I watched his game and the way he played. He is a in your face kinda of guy both on and off the ice. There is little doubt that he had to be with all he faced. Molested by a pervert, racism, addictions and his size. He was a small man playing in a era where liberties were normalized. He was a key guy playing for Team Canada. He has my respect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 23 Author Share Posted October 23 (edited) On 10/23/2024 at 7:36 AM, Boudrias said: My kneejerk reaction was to dislike Fleury because he was a Flame, afterall. I changed over time as I watched his game and the way he played. He is a in your face kinda of guy both on and off the ice. There is little doubt that he had to be with all he faced. Molested by a pervert, racism, addictions and his size. He was a small man playing in a era where liberties were normalized. He was a key guy playing for Team Canada. He has my respect. He was a guy I probably would have liked if he had been on our team. I might well have disliked Tiger Williams and Alex Burrows and some other great Canucks if they had played their type of game against us rather than for us. It was crazy that Fleury was 5'6" and still arguably one of his team's enforcers, the way Hextall was the Flyers' policeman as a goalie. As far as I was concerned the 1995 Hart Trophy was a 5-way tie between Lindros, Jagr, Hasek, Coffey and Fleury. Edited 9 hours ago by Kevin Biestra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 Fleury's book was good, read a Howe biography years back (can't remember who wrote it) and it was excellent too. I'll eventually get around to Burke, musicians lead more interesting lives than athletes so I lean more towards their biographies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophomore Jinx Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 18 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: This isn't mega headline news...but I read Jeremy Roenick's autobiography and in it he lists the five goalies who were the hardest to score on in his career. Our boy Kirk McLean made the list at 4th place. Thought it was worth a mention for those who tend to underrate him or underappreciate his career, especially in the post-Luongo era. The book as a whole...worth a read, not a whole lot above average but not bad. Other takeaways... - Roenick thinks Marc Crawford is a dick. - Had no respect for Don Hay as a coach. - He really hates Patrick Marleau, entirely because Marleau played with no heart and emotion in his opinion, and he places him on par with the players he hates because they actually were jerks. - I was a little embarrassed for him when in the book he more or less asks to have his jersey retired by the Blackhawks. Anyway I have yet to cross paths with a hockey memoir that wasn't worth finishing. For some of the best off the top of my head if anyone wants to read... - Tretiak - The Legend - Gordie Howe - Ken Dryden - The Game - Theoren Fleury - Grant Fuhr, Jean Beliveau and Clint Malarchuk were pretty good. Thanks for this, I will check it out for sure, I enjoyed watching J.R. throughout his career, and I look forward to his book. The Tretiak, Howe, and Dryden books are great reads too. I also enjoyed the Bobby Orr book by Stephen Brunt (his books on Ali and Gretzky are also good reads), same goes for "Remembering Phil Esposito", by Craig Macinnis. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 23 Author Share Posted October 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Sophomore Jinx said: Thanks for this, I will check it out for sure, I enjoyed watching J.R. throughout his career, and I look forward to his book. The Tretiak, Howe, and Dryden books are great reads too. I also enjoyed the Bobby Orr book by Stephen Brunt (his books on Ali and Gretzky are also good reads), same goes for "Remembering Phil Esposito", by Craig Macinnis. I'm also partway through Curtis Joseph's. Seems like there's more to his story than the typical hockey childhood. Chris Chelios had a decent one. I'd rate it a little above Roenick's...not a must read but worth a read. Too bad Roger Nielson never wrote one. Would have been interesting. Harry Neale might be able to write a decent one as well covering some of the same stuff. There just probably isn't the lucrative market for the ones I would find most interesting to get produced... Richard Brodeur, Mike Liut, Michel Larocque, Glenn Resch, Suitcase Gary Smith, Gary Bromley, Ron Grahame, Michel Dion, Gerry Cheevers, Dennis Maruk, Mel Bridgman, Terry Ruskowski, Mike Foligno, Vaclav Nedomansky, Garry Unger, Doug Jarvis, Al Secord, Brian Propp, Ken Linseman, Chris Nilan, Randy Holt, Paul Baxter, Real Cloutier, Tim Hunter... And too late now for Charlie Hodge, Dale Hawerchuk, Borje Salming, Brad McCrimmon, Pat Quinn, Andre Boudrias and a few others I would have been interested in. Still time for Al Arbour. Edited October 23 by Kevin Biestra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophomore Jinx Posted October 23 Share Posted October 23 (edited) 3 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said: I'm also partway through Curtis Joseph's. Seems like there's more to his story than the typical hockey childhood. Chris Chelios had a decent one. I'd rate it a little above Roenick's...not a must read but worth a read. Too bad Roger Nielson never wrote one. Would have been interesting. Harry Neale might be able to write a decent one as well covering some of the same stuff. There just probably isn't the lucrative market for the ones I would find most interesting to get produced... Richard Brodeur, Mike Liut, Michel Larocque, Glenn Resch, Suitcase Gary Smith, Gary Bromley, Ron Grahame, Michel Dion, Gerry Cheevers, Dennis Maruk, Mel Bridgman, Terry Ruskowski, Mike Foligno, Vaclav Nedomansky, Garry Unger, Doug Jarvis, Al Secord, Brian Propp, Ken Linseman, Chris Nilan, Randy Holt, Paul Baxter, Real Cloutier, Tim Hunter... And too late now for Charlie Hodge, Dale Hawerchuk, Borje Salming, Brad McCrimmon, Pat Quinn, Andre Boudrias and a few others I would have been interested in. Still time for Al Arbour. What a player Real Cloutier was, as a 16 and 17 year old he put up huge numbers in the Q, then went on to the WHA and scored a shit-ton more. 60g as a 19 year old, and 283 goals between the ages of 18 - 22. Yes, it was the watered down WHA, but impressive nonetheless. A real offensive dynamo, but injuries and a demotion to the AHL (he clashed with Buffalo coach, Scotty Bowman) led to him hanging up his skates, before putting up over 1 PPG over 5 seasons in the NHL. I loved watch the high flying offense from those Nordiques teams back in the day, with Goulet, Cloutier, Stastny brothers, Tardif... Edited October 23 by Sophomore Jinx 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 24 Author Share Posted October 24 (edited) 59 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said: What a player Real Cloutier was, as a 16 and 17 year old he put up huge numbers in the Q, then went on to the WHA and scored a shit-ton more. 60g as a 19 year old, and 283 goals between the ages of 18 - 22. Yes, it was the watered down WHA, but impressive nonetheless. A real offensive dynamo, but injuries and a demotion to the AHL (he clashed with Buffalo coach, Scotty Bowman) led to him hanging up his skates, before putting up over 1 PPG over 5 seasons in the NHL. I loved watch the high flying offense from those Nordiques teams back in the day, with Goulet, Cloutier, Stastny brothers, Tardif... Yeah I think Cloutier would probably be in the Hall of Fame if he had spent his entire career in the NHL. He almost had 100 points in two different NHL seasons where he only played 60-something games. I think the WHA was a better league than it gets credit for. Personally I would probably just roll the stats in with the NHL. A bunch of those biography guys I listed were WHA players for something like half their career. I'd like more stories from those days and from the NHL teams that were practically WHA like the Barons and Golden Seals etc. Edited October 24 by Kevin Biestra 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baratheon Posted October 24 Share Posted October 24 A really good reminder for myself! Be patient and continue reading. 12 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said: Yeah I think Cloutier would probably be in the Hall of Fame if Things aren’t always what they seem. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted October 24 Author Share Posted October 24 3 minutes ago, Baratheon said: A really good reminder for myself! Be patient and continue reading. Things aren’t always what they seem. Yeah, Real is the real Cloutier. Heck, Jacques Cloutier was a better playoff goalie and in the highest scoring era of hockey. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zduck14 Posted October 26 Share Posted October 26 I just started Fleury's book and oh man is it rough. Can't believe how much he went through. Brian Burke's book, in my opinion, is a must read for any hockey fan. Definitely one of my favorites. As for others I'd like to see, Joe Watson would at the top of my list. Being part of the broad street bullies and best friends with Bobby Orr would surely lead to quite the stories. Also, being from my hometown of Smithers, BC might have something to do with that. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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