Discussion: A Kinder, Gentler NHL.....NOT!!!!!

[Sativika]

https://www.bladeofsteel.com/nhl/news/fans-slam-jennifer-botterill-following-intense-hockey-night-in-canada-exchange

 

 

https://www.bladeofsteel.com/nhl/news/hockey-analyst-stands-up-for-hnic-jennifer-botterill-calling-out-the-keyboard-warriors

 

 

Whadday'all think 'bout this?

 

I get where Jen is coming from; that is, Women's Hockey! Little to no violent physicality.  I mean after all, and I don't mean anything sexist here; women by and large tend to be more logical thinking, we'll................in an emotional kind of way I guess. Nothing against feminist  ideals and God forbid I want to stay away from any new fangled debates here, but you know what I mean. You know, Nurturers vs Hunters. 

 

The professional men's game has been around for ages. And in men's hockey, there's a battle mentality of competitiveness that goes with it. NHL hockey stems from that train of thought, if you will.

 

Just look at the Summit series in '72, the Flyer's Broad Street Bullies; NHL hockey is fully in that culture. I mean thank god the age of Goon hockey is no longer a thing, but the codes and mentality for such still exists and I believe in the NHL, it's not going anywhere.

 

Now....that isn't to say that women don't compete as hard. They do. Believe me......They do. The PWHL, though allowing more physicality than previous women's hockey still compete and battle. They just don't fight. I mean so far anyways. 

 

The PWHL and women's hockey in general have really only been in the hockey public eye for the past two and a half, three decades. And I figure since the dawn of women's hockey when women wore bloomers, it's been a non/low contact sport. 

 

I dunno. Jen's got her perspective and Kevin his. They're both different in regards to their individual experiences. Women Hockey is not the NHL and vice versa. 

 

Edited November 5 by Sativika

[DrJockitch]

What sexist drivel, DEI hire blah blah blah. 
Why doesn’t Elliott face this crap, he never played?

They have a different opinion that is fine. I can handle different opinions. 
Social media is such a cesspool, people need to calm the fuck down. 

Edited November 5 by DrJockitch

[ABNuck]

They both have a point for sure BUT...in defense of J-Bot's argument, this can get out-of-hand quickly. If alphabet boy would have damaged Acciari's knee to the point of ending his career would that have been equal retribution? (For a precedence setting case see Moore vs Naslund / Bert et al vs Moore...hardly equal retribution.)

 

I think Acciari HAD to answer the bell for sure, but I don't like the attempt to injure on his knee.

[nux_win]

I think that the women's game should be more violent (i.e. they should allow body checking) and the men's game should be less violent (for example challenging someone to a fight after a clean hard hit is stupid and against the spirit of the game but it seems to be increasingly a thing).  There is a middle ground that neither side has found.  GCG!

[Angry Elf]

I’m with Bieksa on this one.  When he was playing he would have never let a hit like that on a star player go unanswered.  I think the initial hit, Acciari on Slafkovsky, was a good non-call.  As for the post-game retaliation on Acciari by Arber Xhekej, the only thing I didn’t like about that was the knee on knee hit.  Why Sullivan had Acciari on the ice at the end of the game I have no idea, except maybe he didn’t care if he got what was coming to him.  As far as the Botteril - Bieksa disagreement, it livens it up a bit if they happen to disagree.  

[Canuck You]

Games over and they decide to put him on the ice full well knowing that it's a game of passion and he's a wanted man..100% with KB.

[Pianoman]

I don’t have a problem with that Bieksa said, and I don’t have a problem with what Jennifer said. It’s two different opinions, and I think there is some truth to both. It’s good for discussion, and certainly no reason to trash her… but some people are idiots I guess. 

[Jess]

To some degree, I agree with Juice's perspective, but the whole "eye for an eye" mentality is what cost both Steve Moore, and to a lesser extent, Bertuzzi their careers. The constant seeking of revenge, especially in harmful ways, isn't conducive towards the long-term health of the game or its players. You really have to be careful to, if you are going to seek revenge in a physical way, ensure you aren't totally ruining someone's life or career.

 

I expect Juice highly respects Botterill, but I also don't doubt there there's a fair bit of sexism in some of the criticism she'll be getting from random dipwads on Twitter or whatever. It's unfortunately to be expected in a male-dominated space with a bit of an old boys club mentality.

[Gurn]

It's interesting listening to Ray Ferraro, doing colour commentary from ice level.

Seems  that many times the players will jaw back and forth and even premeditate a fight.

Pre meditated violence earns bigger/longer punishment in the 'real' world.

 

 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

24 minutes ago, Jess said:

To some degree, I agree with Juice's perspective, but the whole "eye for an eye" mentality is what cost both Steve Moore, and to a lesser extent, Bertuzzi their careers. The constant seeking of revenge, especially in harmful ways, isn't conducive towards the long-term health of the game or its players. You really have to be careful to, if you are going to seek revenge in a physical way, ensure you aren't totally ruining someone's life or career.

 

I expect Juice highly respects Botterill, but I also don't doubt there there's a fair bit of sexism in some of the criticism she'll be getting from random dipwads on Twitter or whatever. It's unfortunately to be expected in a male-dominated space with a bit of an old boys club mentality.

 

 

Sort of...  Moore not answering the bell immediately after the Naslund hit or being made to is what allowed things to snowball and get out of control in the time between that play and the Bertuzzi mugging.  There is something to be said for nipping things in the bud with an eye for an eye right away.  In Roenick's autobiography he talks about how a goon (maybe Berube) followed him around for a decade or so on the ice trying to get revenge and finally walked into a dressing room after he had retired and punched Roenick in the face.

[Sativika]

2 hours ago, Pianoman said:

I don’t have a problem with that Bieksa said, and I don’t have a problem with what Jennifer said. It’s two different opinions, and I think there is some truth to both. It’s good for discussion, and certainly no reason to trash her… but some people are idiots I guess. 

 

 Well said!

 

1 hour ago, Jess said:

To some degree, I agree with Juice's perspective, but the whole "eye for an eye" mentality is what cost both Steve Moore, and to a lesser extent, Bertuzzi their careers. The constant seeking of revenge, especially in harmful ways, isn't conducive towards the long-term health of the game or its players. You really have to be careful to, if you are going to seek revenge in a physical way, ensure you aren't totally ruining someone's life or career.

 

I expect Juice highly respects Botterill, but I also don't doubt there there's a fair bit of sexism in some of the criticism she'll be getting from random dipwads on Twitter or whatever. It's unfortunately to be expected in a male-dominated space with a bit of an old boys club mentality.

 

With today's social media culture, there's no getting away from peeps speaking their mind. Anonymity makes one just that much bolder.

 

For sure it's an old boys club mentality in the NHL. But it's all about the rule makers. If the NHL was to go with on ice international hockey rules, perhaps Steve Moore would've still played.

 

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

Sort of...  Moore not answering the bell immediately after the Naslund hit or being made to is what allowed things to snowball and get out of control in the time between that play and the Bertuzzi mugging.  There is something to be said for nipping things in the bud with an eye for an eye right away.  In Roenick's autobiography he talks about how a goon (maybe Berube) followed him around for a decade or so on the ice trying to get revenge and finally walked into a dressing room after he had retired and punched Roenick in the face.

 

Yea man. That whole Big Bert and Steve Moore scenario was some f*cked up, eh. 

 

I didn't know about that Roenick scenario. Different era for sure but jeez. That's a long time to exact payback. There's prolly other stories of such interactions and shenanigans yet to tell. But that's truly some insanity of the highest magnitude. Getting back to Jen.............

 

Whatever opinions one may have about this, or any other subjects in the game of hockey, there's no denying the wealth of hockey knowledge that the Cassie C's, Jennifer B's and Cheryl P's of the hockey world bring to the table. Having females on NHL broadcasts is a boon for the game. It's just that their perspectives don't stem from the old boys club culture.

[Kevin Biestra]

1 minute ago, Sativika said:

Yea man. That whole Big Bert and Steve Moore scenario was some f*cked up, eh. 

 

I didn't know about that Roenick scenario. Different era for sure but jeez. That's a long time to exact payback. There's prolly other stories of such interactions and shenanigans yet to tell. But that's truly some insanity of the highest magnitude. Getting back to Jen.............

 

Whatever opinions one may have about this, or any other subjects in the game of hockey, there's no denying the wealth of hockey knowledge that the Cassie C's, Jennifer B's and Cheryl P's of the hockey world bring to the table. Having females on NHL broadcasts is a boon for the game. It's just that their perspectives don't stem from the old boys club culture.

 

 

Roenick threw a sucker punch during a fight with the goon when the refs were holding the goon's arms back...so the guy just waited and waited for his chance.  He would jump on the ice to get Roenick for the rest of his playing days and Roenick would pull a Matt Cooke and jump off the ice to avoid the fight / tick him off.  To Jeremy's credit, he took the punch in the locker room like a man and said fair is fair.

 

I certainly welcome the hockey commentary from female players.  There isn't 100% overlap in the ruleset and experience, but at the same time, there is more overlap compared to a male commentator whose only experience is being in the media and maybe a beer league.

 

 

 

[chaoticmonkey]

Fuck Botteril, can't stand her or her takes on this stuff. No, guys in the NHL absolutely should not turn the other fucking cheek. This is ridiculous and your team will never win a cup of they don't stick together and stand up for each other.

 

If Petey or Hughes or Miller went down as a result of a dirty play I'd want everyone on the Canucks to take a pound of flesh. You don't get to skate off the ice scott free.

[GrammaInTheTub]

Everyone getting all caught up in the gender lens not realizing they’re feeding into the media exactly as was planned by the media. Think, people. 

[Pianoman]

56 minutes ago, chaoticmonkey said:

Fuck Botteril, can't stand her or her takes on this stuff. No, guys in the NHL absolutely should not turn the other fucking cheek. This is ridiculous and your team will never win a cup of they don't stick together and stand up for each other.

 

If Petey or Hughes or Miller went down as a result of a dirty play I'd want everyone on the Canucks to take a pound of flesh. You don't get to skate off the ice scott free.

So if a Canucks player say miller, made the hit that Acciari did, one that wasn’t penalized or fined, and then at the very end of the game a guy came in and injured miller intentionally with a knee, you would be fine with that? Just making sure it goes both ways for you. 

[chaoticmonkey]

41 minutes ago, Pianoman said:

So if a Canucks player say miller, made the hit that Acciari did, one that wasn’t penalized or fined, and then at the very end of the game a guy came in and injured miller intentionally with a knee, you would be fine with that? Just making sure it goes both ways for you. 

Yeah... in that case Miller should expect something just like the inaugural game against Calgary. Even if Miller's hit was clean, it was a huge hit which resulted in an injury. Miller had to step up be a man and pay the piper. I have no issues with that. It all died right then and there when he fought. As it should have.

 

I love that it's a violent game and I will never advocate for the turn the other cheek hippie bullshit.