Player acquisitions that were just bad fits for specific teams.

[Blue]

It can be drafted, traded for or signed players.

 

2 come to mind for me. Buffalo drafting Zack Benson and acquiring Bo Byram. Zack is a good player. But just a terrible fit for that team. Small winger. Take the BPA if you must and trade the player for now help or something. And Bo Byram. Brining a smaller dman with head injury history to be a difference maker just isn't a good idea. He should have went to Vancouver or something where he could be sheltered a little. Just as Branstrom has been. 

 

Then of course, there's the 2 Oilers singings. Arviddson and Skinner. 

 

These are all self inflicted. 

[Bounce000]

LOUI ERIKSSON I WIN!

[Goalie29]

Pierre Luc Dubois and everywhere?

[HKSR]

10 minutes ago, Blue said:

It can be drafted, traded for or signed players.

 

2 come to mind for me. Buffalo drafting Zack Benson and acquiring Bo Byram. Zack is a good player. But just a terrible fit for that team. Small winger. Take the BPA if you must and trade the player for now help or something. And Bo Byram. Brining a smaller dman with head injury history to be a difference maker just isn't a good idea. He should have went to Vancouver or something where he could be sheltered a little. Just as Branstrom has been. 

 

Then of course, there's the 2 Oilers singings. Arviddson and Skinner. 

 

These are all self inflicted. 

Byram?  Why?  The guy has 8 points in 13 games playing 21min a night....I'd say the Sabres are doing very well with him right now.

[Highstickin]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

It can be drafted, traded for or signed players.

 

2 come to mind for me. Buffalo drafting Zack Benson and acquiring Bo Byram. Zack is a good player. But just a terrible fit for that team. Small winger. Take the BPA if you must and trade the player for now help or something. And Bo Byram. Brining a smaller dman with head injury history to be a difference maker just isn't a good idea. He should have went to Vancouver or something where he could be sheltered a little. Just as Branstrom has been. 

 

Then of course, there's the 2 Oilers singings. Arviddson and Skinner. 

 

These are all self inflicted. 

You must have a hate on for Buffalo. 

 

6'1" 200lbs isn't exactly small, in fact it is the average size of current NHL defensemen. Buffalo already have 4 defensemen over 6'1" so it's not like they absolutely needed more size. 

 

As for Benson, he is one of just 2 forwards Buffalo has on the roster that is below 6'. He is a speedy and skilled forward. So as good as Tuch and Thompson are the Sabers lacked speed on the top end of their forward group which fits Bensons game pretty well. You need to have a good mix of players on the roster, this situation kind of reminds me of the Garland/Joshua pairing that is quite successful because one brings physicality/puck retrieval and the other has speed/puck skills. 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, Goalie29 said:

Pierre Luc Dubois and everywhere?

 

He's been pretty solid for Washington thus far, it's still early but it's worth noting, their coach was speaking well of him not too long ago 

 

Only 7 points in 12 games thus far but he's generally having a positive impact 

[Master Mind]

Everyone signed by Nashville

[ABNuck]

Drafting is difficult...and more blame would have to be put on the scouting staff if a drafted player doesn't live up to his billing (either as a direct fit or a player to build the future around). An excellent example of that would have been the string of 1st round picks that the Oilers had. Firstly, Hall over Seguin. A skilled Centreman would have fit the Oilers needs much better. And the second example is of course Yakupov. They should have traded that 1 O/A to help build up their blueline...they are still suffering to this day for that terrible mistake.

 

There's a plethora of trades that didn't work out, as well as a hockey sock full of TDL deals where the player either didn't mesh at all, or didn't mesh in time to really help his team in the playoffs.

 

So for straight up analysis of poorly managed resources squandered on players that didn't fit, I'd say you mainly need to look at F/A signings, and in particular ones where the signing ended up being a boat anchor because the player did not fit, therefore performed poorly and subsequently devalued himself in the eyes of other GM's and lowering his potential trade value...those ones hurt the most. And as mentioned above, the Loui Eriksson experiment was terrible and saddled us for a few years of mediocrity. Only one person to blame for that one...the GM.

[Kevin Biestra]

As most around here might know I'm a little inclined to go back further into history than most but hey I like to talk about the old days...

 

On the Kings before the Gretzky trade, Jimmy Carson and Luc Robitaille were pretty much equals, both 80ish point rookies and then 100 point players.  After the trade Carson DID get 100 points one year as an Oiler but then just went off a cliff.  Also going off a cliff after a big trade...Gary Leeman in Calgary vs. Doug Gilmour in Toronto.  Notably, we had both Carson and Leeman as reclamation projects in the mid-90s.  Carson even played a little for us in the 1994 Cup run.

 

Chris Chelios for Denis Savard around 1990 seemed like a pretty even trade at the time but Savard was in decline whereas Chelios had an entirely separate Hall of Fame career after the trade to Chicago.  Savard was on the 1993 Canadiens that won the Cup though so it wasn't a disaster.

 

People in Vancouver say Cam Neely for Barry Pederson but Pederson was in the running for best player on the Canucks most of his seasons here, about a point a game with guys like Skriko and Tanti and Sundstrom.  He just wasn't "Boston version" Cam Neely 2.0 after the trade so people held it against him.

 

Players Canucks acquired at various points with good pedigrees who just didn't fit like they should have for one reason or another...  Eric Weinrich (in the 11th hour of his career), Andrew Cassels, Nate Schmidt, Jason Garrison, David Booth, Pavol Demitra, Geoff Sanderson, Sean Burke (great goalie with a TERRIBLE run as a Canuck), Mathieu Schneider (think he was a free agent signing).

 

Also the Canucks acquired Tom Kurvers (a very good offensive defenseman) in the early 90s and he was absolutely awesome for the Canucks in his 20 or whatever games he played.  We then traded him for Dave Babych, which worked out for the best...but I was surprised we got rid of Kurvers because he was absolutely crushing it (27 points in 32 games as a Canuck on the blueline, a pace that would have set the team record for a season until Quinn Hughes decades later).  We also had some good goalies pass through in the goalie graveyard years (Bob Essensa Vezina finalist, Felix Potvin 4th for the Vezina) in addition to Sean Burke who couldn't seem to set down roots.

 

Wayne Gretzky in St. Louis didn't bear the fruit most had hoped for at the time.

 

Also...Vladimir Krutov.  The Canucks brought in one of the all time great Russians and international players in the history of hockey, and it just didn't seem to work more than part of the time.  The same has happened for some fantastic international goalies from the same era like Kari Takko and Jarmo Myllys.  And also some terrific clutch goalies from the World Juniors or old Olympics who just never got a foothold as NHLers...Jim Waite, Jim Craig, Stephane Fiset.

 

Seems like we also draft some guys or acquire them very early in their careers who don't fit with us but then go on to very good or great things with us in their rear view mirror.  Gustav Forsling, Brent Ashton, Bill Derlago, Jared McCann, Michael Grabner...  In the case of Ashton and Derlago (and Rick Vaive and Murray Bannerman) it wasn't a bad fit so much as an opportunity to trade the future for very good pieces in the present.  And while "go for it now" didn't seem particularly advisable around 1979-81 or so...it somehow actually paid off and worked in 1982.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 9 by Kevin Biestra

[Blue]

4 hours ago, Highstickin said:

You must have a hate on for Buffalo. 

 

6'1" 200lbs isn't exactly small, in fact it is the average size of current NHL defensemen. Buffalo already have 4 defensemen over 6'1" so it's not like they absolutely needed more size. 

 

As for Benson, he is one of just 2 forwards Buffalo has on the roster that is below 6'. He is a speedy and skilled forward. So as good as Tuch and Thompson are the Sabers lacked speed on the top end of their forward group which fits Bensons game pretty well. You need to have a good mix of players on the roster, this situation kind of reminds me of the Garland/Joshua pairing that is quite successful because one brings physicality/puck retrieval and the other has speed/puck skills. 

Nah.  i have nothing against them and want them to turn it around. Benson just seems to me to be the ultimate hockey trade chip for them. 

 

Here they are bombing another start. Theh have to be doing something wrong 

[Zimmyparttwo]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

As most around here might know I'm a little inclined to go back further into history than most but hey I like to talk about the old days...

 

On the Kings before the Gretzky trade, Jimmy Carson and Luc Robitaille were pretty much equals, both 80ish point rookies and then 100 point players.  After the trade Carson DID get 100 points one year as an Oiler but then just went off a cliff.  Also going off a cliff after a big trade...Gary Leeman in Calgary vs. Doug Gilmour in Toronto.  Notably, we had both Carson and Leeman as reclamation projects in the mid-90s.  Carson even played a little for us in the 1994 Cup run.

 

Chris Chelios for Denis Savard around 1990 seemed like a pretty even trade at the time but Savard was in decline whereas Chelios had an entirely separate Hall of Fame career after the trade to Chicago.  Savard was on the 1993 Canadiens that won the Cup though so it wasn't a disaster.

 

People in Vancouver say Cam Neely for Barry Pederson but Pederson was in the running for best player on the Canucks most of his seasons here, about a point a game with guys like Skriko and Tanti and Sundstrom.  He just wasn't "Boston version" Cam Neely 2.0 after the trade so people held it against him.

 

Players Canucks traded for at various points with good pedigrees who just didn't fit like they should have for one reason or another...  Eric Weinrich (in the 11th hour of his career), Andrew Cassels, Nate Schmidt, Jason Garrison, David Booth, Pavol Demitra, Geoff Sanderson, Sean Burke (great goalie with a TERRIBLE run as a Canuck), Mathieu Schneider (think he was a free agent signing actually).

 

Also the Canucks acquired Tom Kurvers (a very good offensive defenseman) in the early 90s and he was absolutely awesome for the Canucks in his 20 or whatever games he played.  We then traded him for Dave Babych, which worked out for the best...but I was surprised we got rid of Kurver because he was absolutely crushing it (27 points in 32 games as a Canuck on the blueline, a pace that would have set the team record for a season until Quinn Hughes decades later).  We also had some good goalies pass through in the goalie graveyard years (Bob Essensa Vezina finalist, Felix Potvin 4th for the Vezina) in addition to Sean Burke who couldn't seem to set down roots.

 

Wayne Gretzky in St. Louis didn't bear the fruit most had hoped for at the time.

 

Also...Vladimir Krutov.  The Canucks brought in one of the all time great Russians and international players in the history of hockey, and it just didn't seem to work more than part of the time.  The same has happened for some fantastic international goalies from the same era like Kari Takko and Jarmo Myllys.  And also some terrific clutch goalies from the World Juniors or old Olympics who just never got a foothold as NHLers...Jim Waite, Jim Craig, Stephane Fiset.

 

Seems like we also draft some guys or acquire them very early in their careers who don't fit with us but then go on to very good or great things with us in their rear view mirror.  Gustav Forsling, Brent Ashton, Bill Derlago, Jared McCann, Michael Grabner...

 

 

 

Krutov needed an authority figure to tell him what he could or could not do (eat) around the clock. He had the emotional intelligence of a twelve year old while his comrade, Igor Larionov, was a well rounded, thoughtful, intelligent individual who was able to take advantage of the opportunity afforded him. What a pity for Kruts.

[Kevin Biestra]

Just now, Zimmyparttwo said:

Krutov needed an authority figure to tell him what he could or could not do (eat) around the clock. He had the emotional intelligence of a twelve year old while his comrade, Igor Larionov, was a well rounded, thoughtful, intelligent individual who was able to take advantage of the opportunity afforded him. What a pity for Kruts.

 

You would think between Larionov and Pat Quinn (and probably Brian Burke and Rick Ley at that time, plus Stan Smyl) that there should have been enough voices for Krutov to keep it together.  But it was a time of big transitions in the world and probably doubly so for Krutov himself.  I think if he and Larionov had both remained Canucks for a few more years the outcome could have been substantially better.

[Alflives]

Trotz signing cooked old guys this summer. 

[Chickenspear]

Überdough

[Zimmyparttwo]

1 hour ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

You would think between Larionov and Pat Quinn (and probably Brian Burke and Rick Ley at that time, plus Stan Smyl) that there should have been enough voices for Krutov to keep it together.  But it was a time of big transitions in the world and probably doubly so for Krutov himself.  I think if he and Larionov had both remained Canucks for a few more years the outcome could have been substantially better.

Without a doubt, a time of substantial change and a considerable dose of confusion for those in the east and us in the west, as well.
 

I’ve always maintained that had Larionov remained with the Canucks into the 93-94 season, the a Stanley Cup would have been ours. Don’t know who takes most of the blame for Igor not coming back after 92  - Larionov himself, the Canucks, Quinn, the Russian Hockey Federation? Igor was such a cerebral player, so solid in his own end with an ability to consistently produce offensively. He was the brain of that KLM line.

 

Under the strict regimen of the Soviet system, Krutov was a physical force, a fire hydrant of energy and velocity who should have excelled at the NHL game. And then he ate his first hotdog and that was pretty much it. 

[Kevin Biestra]

13 minutes ago, Zimmyparttwo said:

Without a doubt, a time of substantial change and a considerable dose of confusion for those in the east and us in the west, as well.
 

I’ve always maintained that had Larionov remained with the Canucks into the 93-94 season, the a Stanley Cup would have been ours. Don’t know who takes most of the blame for Igor not coming back after 92  - Larionov himself, the Canucks, Quinn, the Russian Hockey Federation? Igor was such a cerebral player, so solid in his own end with an ability to consistently produce offensively. He was the brain of that KLM line.

 

Under the strict regimen of the Soviet system, Krutov was a physical force, a fire hydrant of energy and velocity who should have excelled at the NHL game. And then he ate his first hotdog and that was pretty much it. 

 

Yeah losing Igor Larionov with 12 years left in his career on waivers was not ideal.  Given how guys like Ronning were unable to play effectively in Game 7 against the Rangers due to broken hands and stuff...it sure wouldn't have hurt to have Larionov as an additional center.  Linden, Ronning, Craven and Larionov down the middle?  Don't know how many times an NHL team has ever had depth like that.

 

 

Edited November 9 by Kevin Biestra

[Zimmyparttwo]

7 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

Yeah losing Igor Larionov with 12 years left in his career on waivers was not ideal.  Given how guys like Ronning were unable to play effectively in Game 7 against the Rangers due to broken hands and stuff...it sure wouldn't have hurt to have Larionov as an additional center.  Linden, Ronning, Craven and Larionov down the middle?  Don't know how many times and NHL team has ever had depth like that.

Just imagine replacing the long forgotten (okay, I actually remember him) John McIntyre at center for those 24 playoff games. One can dream I suppose. I’m still pissed that Kevin McCarthy couldn’t play in the 82 playoffs. Hard to let these things go!!

[Bob Long]

Sprong 

 

[Kevin Biestra]

8 minutes ago, Zimmyparttwo said:

Just imagine replacing the long forgotten (okay, I actually remember him) John McIntyre at center for those 24 playoff games. One can dream I suppose. I’m still pissed that Kevin McCarthy couldn’t play in the 82 playoffs. Hard to let these things go!!

 

 

Kevin McCarthy and Rick Lanz (two 50 point defensemen) for the entire 1982 playoffs.  Both would have probably been the 2nd best defenseman on the Islanders, McCarthy for sure.  I think we certainly win game 1 against the Islanders with those guys in the lineup and then...hey who knows.

 

John McIntyre...I liked him, really solid defensive guy who could burn some minutes but man he could not score.  Three goals in 90 career games as a Canuck.  Dana Murzyn actually scored at a better pace.

 

However, Jim Agnew from the same era made John McIntyre look like Alexander Ovechkin.

 

 

Edited November 9 by Kevin Biestra

[NewbieCanuckFan]

4 hours ago, Kevin Biestra said:

As most around here might know I'm a little inclined to go back further into history than most but hey I like to talk about the old days...

 

On the Kings before the Gretzky trade, Jimmy Carson and Luc Robitaille were pretty much equals, both 80ish point rookies and then 100 point players.  After the trade Carson DID get 100 points one year as an Oiler but then just went off a cliff.  Also going off a cliff after a big trade...Gary Leeman in Calgary vs. Doug Gilmour in Toronto.  Notably, we had both Carson and Leeman as reclamation projects in the mid-90s.  Carson even played a little for us in the 1994 Cup run.

 

Chris Chelios for Denis Savard around 1990 seemed like a pretty even trade at the time but Savard was in decline whereas Chelios had an entirely separate Hall of Fame career after the trade to Chicago.  Savard was on the 1993 Canadiens that won the Cup though so it wasn't a disaster.

 

People in Vancouver say Cam Neely for Barry Pederson but Pederson was in the running for best player on the Canucks most of his seasons here, about a point a game with guys like Skriko and Tanti and Sundstrom.  He just wasn't "Boston version" Cam Neely 2.0 after the trade so people held it against him.

 

Players Canucks traded for at various points with good pedigrees who just didn't fit like they should have for one reason or another...  Eric Weinrich (in the 11th hour of his career), Andrew Cassels, Nate Schmidt, Jason Garrison, David Booth, Pavol Demitra, Geoff Sanderson, Sean Burke (great goalie with a TERRIBLE run as a Canuck), Mathieu Schneider (think he was a free agent signing actually).

 

Also the Canucks acquired Tom Kurvers (a very good offensive defenseman) in the early 90s and he was absolutely awesome for the Canucks in his 20 or whatever games he played.  We then traded him for Dave Babych, which worked out for the best...but I was surprised we got rid of Kurver because he was absolutely crushing it (27 points in 32 games as a Canuck on the blueline, a pace that would have set the team record for a season until Quinn Hughes decades later).  We also had some good goalies pass through in the goalie graveyard years (Bob Essensa Vezina finalist, Felix Potvin 4th for the Vezina) in addition to Sean Burke who couldn't seem to set down roots.

 

Wayne Gretzky in St. Louis didn't bear the fruit most had hoped for at the time.

 

Also...Vladimir Krutov.  The Canucks brought in one of the all time great Russians and international players in the history of hockey, and it just didn't seem to work more than part of the time.  The same has happened for some fantastic international goalies from the same era like Kari Takko and Jarmo Myllys.  And also some terrific clutch goalies from the World Juniors or old Olympics who just never got a foothold as NHLers...Jim Waite, Jim Craig, Stephane Fiset.

 

Seems like we also draft some guys or acquire them very early in their careers who don't fit with us but then go on to very good or great things with us in their rear view mirror.  Gustav Forsling, Brent Ashton, Bill Derlago, Jared McCann, Michael Grabner...  In the case of Ashton and Derlago (and Rick Vaive and Murray Bannerman) it wasn't a bad fit so much as an opportunity to trade the future for very good pieces in the present.  And while "go for it now" didn't seem particularly advisable around 1979-81 or so...it somehow actually paid off and worked in 1982.

 

 

 

 

I have to admit I was completely fooled by this one.  Thought Jim Benning got a steal in a "solid top 4 defenseman" for a cheap price.  I would've put money on that happening (solidifying our blueline).

Edited November 9 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Blue]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

Sprong 

 

As pretty much everyone knew before he played a game here. 

 

Then we all got roped into this idea that they were going to have some 5D chess way of using him. Which all turned out to be bullshit. It was supposed to be an intriguing storyline. Instead they just said nah you're right. He shouldn't have been signed

Edited November 9 by Blue

[Blue]

2 hours ago, Zimmyparttwo said:

And then he ate his first hotdog and that was pretty much it. 

?? Expand 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

As pretty much everyone knew before he played a game here. 

 

Then we all got roped into this idea that they were going to have some 5D chess way of using him. Which all turned out to be bullshit. It was supposed to be an intriguing storyline. Instead they just said nah you're right. He shouldn't have been signed

 

It was a low risk bet. Nothing lost really. 

 

And hey, maybe he makes Seattle worse 

 

[Zimmyparttwo]

4 hours ago, Blue said:

?? Expand 

Krutov expanded like a birthday balloon upon coming to North America. He looked pudgy and unhealthy on the ice, a shadow of his former KLM self. For some of us young guys who hung around the Coliseum in the day, before games especially, down next to the players during warmups, the sight of his pasty, sweaty, chubby face suggested he’d been gorging on hotdogs between games and perhaps even during them. He had the look of someone who could not handle being unregulated.
This is just how we saw it you must remember. The hotdogs were just symbolic of the new western lifestyle that he didn’t seem to be able to deal with. I don’t know if he actually ate hotdogs or even liked them. They just represented our disappointment in his play after he promised so much potential in the decade previous.

Whatever demons Krutov had I felt and still feel bad for him and the fact that he returned to Russia immediately after his one year here says a lot about how unhappy he must have been.

[Snoop Hogg]

The Zdeno Chara signing with Washington was bizarre.