[Interview] Luongo rejected DET offer sheet just after we traded for him

[RWJC]

When we traded for Luongo, not many knew about this, but he was given an offer sheet by DET before we signed him!

He rejected it and ended up making less money with us. Luuuuuuuuuuu!

 

 

 

[Coconuts]

Imagine Luongo playing behind Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Rafalski, Chelios 

 

Tandem with Osgood or Hasek

 

Those late 2000's/early 2010's Wings teams probably would have won more than just the one cup

[GrammaInTheTub]

It was interesting to learn that this never went public because he didn’t sign. Makes you wonder how many offersheets actually occur that we just don’t see - what if Arizona was offersheeting everyone and met with silence haha! 

[Warhippy]

If he would have been sent to Det in the early 2000s; he would be 2nd in almost every regular season goalie stat behind only Brodeur and probably 2nd in a number of playoff stats.  But looking at the two teams he actually looks to have had a better run in vancouver long term and we were lucky to have him.

[Mando27]

Wild, huge respect for Lu for rejecting it though.

[DeNiro]

Glad he did but huge mistake! 

 

Would have a couple cups and probably a Vezina…

[Pears]

.

Edited November 15 by Pears
replied to wrong post

[Pears]

41 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Imagine Luongo playing behind Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Rafalski, Chelios 

 

Tandem with Osgood or Hasek

 

Those late 2000's/early 2010's Wings teams probably would have won more than just the one cup

I'd wager they win 3 minimum. 

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Pears said:

I'd wager they win 3 minimum. 

 

Probably, they almost had two as it is. He'd probably have had a better career as a Wing than as a Nuck imo. 

 

We're fortunate he chose to sign here. 

[Bounce000]

I wonder how many RFAs actually get offer sheeted, but we don't ever hear about it.

[Kevin Biestra]

5 hours ago, Warhippy said:

If he would have been sent to Det in the early 2000s; he would be 2nd in almost every regular season goalie stat behind only Brodeur and probably 2nd in a number of playoff stats.  But looking at the two teams he actually looks to have had a better run in vancouver long term and we were lucky to have him.

 

 

Playoff stats...  Kind of doubt Luongo would have caught Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur in any career playoff numbers.  Luongo retired with 70 playoff games in his career...Roy has 151 playoff wins.  I think Lu would have probably added a little to his regular season games total without the Schneider stuff, probably a moderate addition to his wins.  He'd obviously have played more than 70 career playoff games...but I'm not sure the Wings would have won more Cups with Luongo than with the goalies they had.  Luongo was a weird one...I would say definitely the most mentally fragile Hall of Fame goalie I have ever seen.  He was like three parts Patrick Roy and one part Dan Cloutier.  He was a terrific workhorse all season long and then come playoff time, you'd get the same guy 55-85% of the time and it was a bit of a dice roll what percentage of the time you were going to get the Meltdown Man.

 

A guy like Osgood wasn't Luongo level when both were at their best...but he also was nowhere near as bad as Luongo when they weren't at their best.  I really can't recall any great goalie having as frequent meltdowns as Luongo did.  A dynasty type of team might have had enough of that at some point and kicked him to the curb...happened quite a bit in Philadelphia when one starter after another "only" got them to the Final and didn't actually win the Cup.  And Detroit was the team that made a big splash to get Curtis Joseph and then just said nah and sent him packing / made him the 3rd stringer almost immediately when their ex-girlfriend Dominik Hasek made sexy eyes at them again.

 

 

Edited November 15 by Kevin Biestra

[Canuck You]

Smart guy, Stay away from Bab's Cock.

[gwarrior]

Until today, I didn't know that Detroit offered Luongo an offer sheet.

[J-23]

That Detroit team would’ve won a lot of cups.

[IBatch]

On 11/15/2024 at 1:16 PM, Coconuts said:

Imagine Luongo playing behind Lidstrom, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Franzen, Kronwall, Rafalski, Chelios 

 

Tandem with Osgood or Hasek

 

Those late 2000's/early 2010's Wings teams probably would have won more than just the one cup

In fairness,  Osgood was a good Conn Smythe choice instead of Zetterberg, and 100% their front runner the second final ...

[IBatch]

On 11/15/2024 at 4:34 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

Playoff stats...  Kind of doubt Luongo would have caught Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur in any career playoff numbers.  Luongo retired with 70 playoff games in his career...Roy has 151 playoff wins.  I think Lu would have probably added a little to his regular season games total without the Schneider stuff, probably a moderate addition to his wins.  He'd obviously have played more than 70 career playoff games...but I'm not sure the Wings would have won more Cups with Luongo than with the goalies they had.  Luongo was a weird one...I would say definitely the most mentally fragile Hall of Fame goalie I have ever seen.  He was like three parts Patrick Roy and one part Dan Cloutier.  He was a terrific workhorse all season long and then come playoff time, you'd get the same guy 55-85% of the time and it was a bit of a dice roll what percentage of the time you were going to get the Meltdown Man.

 

A guy like Osgood wasn't Luongo level when both were at their best...but he also was nowhere near as bad as Luongo when they weren't at their best.  I really can't recall any great goalie having as frequent meltdowns as Luongo did.  A dynasty type of team might have had enough of that at some point and kicked him to the curb...happened quite a bit in Philadelphia when one starter after another "only" got them to the Final and didn't actually win the Cup.  And Detroit was the team that made a big splash to get Curtis Joseph and then just said nah and sent him packing / made him the 3rd stringer almost immediately when their ex-girlfriend Dominik Hasek made sexy eyes at them again.

 

 

See above post.   Detroit was always a playoff team in the 2000's.   Both times they made it to the final aside from Hasek's cup loaded 2002 team, Osgood was exceptional.   Like McLean for us in 94.   Actually felt he was more deserving than Zetterberg, the next year he was even better and the biggest reason it even went 7 games.    Not often a goalie saves the best for last, he sure did.   DET actually needed exceptional goaltending in the late 2000's.   Those teams were nothing like the loaded 90's and early 2000's teams. 

 

Edit: Point is I don't see Luongo as a playoff upgrade.   His best series level (Turco battle) sure but that wasn't his norm.    Osgood had a rep of being a bit like Crawford in CHI - just a good goalie on a great team, which made a lot of sense until he for me at least, obliterated that with his back to back final performances.    Personally feel if Vernon gets in, so should he (HHOF).   Aside from Dryden, you also won't find many goalies with that sort of winning percentage either.  

Edited November 17 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 11/15/2024 at 1:51 PM, DeNiro said:

Glad he did but huge mistake! 

 

Would have a couple cups and probably a Vezina…

Did you watch the 07-08, 08-09 games?  Osgood was unreal.    Also those Detroit teams slowly were getting worse and worse throughout the 2000's.   Datsyuk and Zetterberg, Rafalski and Franzen didn't replace Frederov, Larionov, Festisov, Konstantinov, Shanny and blips of Coffey, Chelios circa 2002, Hull, Robataille etc, etc etc etc, those earlier teams had a lot of Franzen's on them too.  

 

  Osgood came back from St. Louis and was like a saviour really.   .930 and .926 SP pops out, what really popped out for me was two of the best goaltending performances i've seen going back to the 80's in the playoffs.  He Bill Ranfored his team to a cup, then followed it up with an even more impressive performance.    Vasilevsky would be a recent comp as far as how well he played, i'd say Osgood was even better then that though, and also would say so was TB as a team.  

 

   Datsyuk and Zetterberg didn't fill the Yzerman and Federov shoes, not even close.   And can go down the list of guys who didn't fill the ones behind them.   Lidstrom is a wash.  He didn't get way way better in his 30's, he just didn't have the same competition he did in his 20's.    Rafalski I see more of as a Devil then as a Wing, and Chelios wasn't even close to the same player he was in his 30's or 20's in his 40's.    He could play with them, but he wasn't the same guy that single handedly, dismantled us in the mid 90's either (swept us second round with CHI).     Osgood's other cup as a starter, .918sp.   Which was tippy top elite back then.     Don't think there is many goaltenders that got some media rap that's persisted quite like Osgood's.   He was a huge part of all his teams.  

[IBatch]

On 11/15/2024 at 11:16 PM, J-23 said:

That Detroit team would’ve won a lot of cups.

I'd say, they might not of won any cups.  Not trying to take a contrary position, Osgood was unreal both those finals.    I doubt Luongo would have done better than that.   Before that maybe Detroit would have got farther.   Those Detroit teams weren't otherworldly like they were in the 90's and early 2000's.   It was Osgood that took them to back to back finals.   And talk was, he might win the Conn Smythe (Zetterberg did but it was either him or Osgood) back then, and the next year it was 100% Osgood as the front runner if they won again.  

Edited November 17 by IBatch

[IBatch]

Not to spam this thread, but also thankfully Luongo didn't sign the offer sheet, i'm sure if he did the team would have matched anyways.   Instead Detroit went back to the same old well and was rewarded for it. 

[IBatch]

On 11/15/2024 at 4:34 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

Playoff stats...  Kind of doubt Luongo would have caught Patrick Roy or Martin Brodeur in any career playoff numbers.  Luongo retired with 70 playoff games in his career...Roy has 151 playoff wins.  I think Lu would have probably added a little to his regular season games total without the Schneider stuff, probably a moderate addition to his wins.  He'd obviously have played more than 70 career playoff games...but I'm not sure the Wings would have won more Cups with Luongo than with the goalies they had.  Luongo was a weird one...I would say definitely the most mentally fragile Hall of Fame goalie I have ever seen.  He was like three parts Patrick Roy and one part Dan Cloutier.  He was a terrific workhorse all season long and then come playoff time, you'd get the same guy 55-85% of the time and it was a bit of a dice roll what percentage of the time you were going to get the Meltdown Man.

 

A guy like Osgood wasn't Luongo level when both were at their best...but he also was nowhere near as bad as Luongo when they weren't at their best.  I really can't recall any great goalie having as frequent meltdowns as Luongo did.  A dynasty type of team might have had enough of that at some point and kicked him to the curb...happened quite a bit in Philadelphia when one starter after another "only" got them to the Final and didn't actually win the Cup.  And Detroit was the team that made a big splash to get Curtis Joseph and then just said nah and sent him packing / made him the 3rd stringer almost immediately when their ex-girlfriend Dominik Hasek made sexy eyes at them again.

 

 

I think when they were both at their best it was razor thin.   Osgood saved the best for the last.    Doesn't get enough love for it either really.   

[IBatch]

On 11/15/2024 at 1:58 PM, Pears said:

I'd wager they win 3 minimum. 

I'd wager it's even odds they win one.  

[Kevin Biestra]

On 11/17/2024 at 9:08 AM, IBatch said:

I think when they were both at their best it was razor thin.   Osgood saved the best for the last.    Doesn't get enough love for it either really.   

 

I think Lu at his best is up there with the best ever, but I also think he spent a very large percentage of his time (for a Hall of Famer) not at his best and especially as a sieve when it mattered.  I specifically remember the one game where I saw Patrick Roy poop the bed and the one game where I saw Grant Fuhr poop the bed.  Luongo seemed to do it half a dozen times in a single playoff run.  And not that it particularly matters as it is just one of the sixty minutes that go into the overall stats, but he is probably the worst NHL goalie I have ever seen in the 60th minute of regulation hockey.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone with his propensity to give up a goal in the last minute and either lose a shutout or have the other team tie the game.

 

Osgood...it has been a while and in this case maybe I am being influenced by his reputation a bit but I remember him mostly as a guy who was more than good enough to get the job done and hovered around 6th to 8th best goalie in the league maybe...sometimes a little higher than that and sometimes a little lower.  I don't really remember him as being better than, say, Andy Moog or Glenn Resch (that said I consider those two stronger candidates for the Hall of Fame than others seem to).  Osgood had the benefit of being on a great team and has the championships to show for it...but history seems to have put him in a category with guys like Kevin Stevens or even Rob Brown who did incredible things but have the responsibility for their achievements ascribed almost entirely to Mario Lemieux (as did Mario's junior linemate who himself had one of the all time best seasons in junior hockey history...and wasn't even drafted...ever).  Same happened to Rick Martin and Rene Robert with Gilbert Perreault, to Dave Taylor and Charlie SImmer with Marcel Dionne, to John LeClair with Eric Lindros.

 

I have Osgood above guys like Corey Crawford, Khabibulin and Niemi who were good enough to not cost their team a Stanley Cup.  I probably have him below guys like Barrasso and Vernon.  I definitely have him in the conversation as a Hall of Famer.  I think a guy like Curtis Joseph seemed to peak higher in terms of Vezina and Hart Trophy consideration.  Osgood got the Cups though and really, if Kevin Lowe is in for that reason, why not Osgood who was probably more instrumental to his team's success than Lowe.  And there's really not much reason Lowe should be in for his Stanley Cups but not JC Tremblay and Pete Mahovlich (both of whom had significantly higher peaks as players to go with their numerous Cup rings) and maybe Charlie Huddy.

 

Lowe was 5th, 7th and 8th for the Norris Trophy in his very best seasons.  Impressive without a doubt but really not separating himself much from someone like Paul Reinhart, Charlie Huddy, Ed Jovanovski or Dave Babych.  And Lowe achieved that with his forward lineup and Paul Coffey on the blueline, all of which seems to have worked in his favor, whereas I think Gary Suter probably gets penalized for having Al MacInnis (and then Chris Chelios) as his "big brother" on a great team.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 19 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

6 hours ago, IBatch said:

In fairness,  Osgood was a good Conn Smythe choice instead of Zetterberg, and 100% their front runner the second final ...

 

Yeah it's kind of a shame that the Conn Smythe is just appointed in the moment as opposed to having it on record like the other trophies what the vote was and who would have been a finalist and such.  It might buttress the careers and legacies of guys like Kirk McLean, Trevor Linden, King Richard, Brian Propp and your homeboy Chris Osgood.  Maybe Jon Casey and those flash in the pan guys from the 90s (John Druce and Chris Kontos) might have something a bit more solid to show for their moment in the sun.

 

With Brian Propp, he had five runs to the Cup Final and was a major component of four if not five of them.  They say the playoffs are the more important season...if someone was top five or so for the Hart Trophy, four or five times, is there any chance he wouldn't be in the Hall of Fame.  Glenn Anderson would have probably been given a quicker path to the Hall of Fame as well.  He never had any actual individual honors at the end of the year, just a good handful of seasons voted from 3rd to 6th best RW in the league and no trophy votes ever other than 11th for the Calder.  But he would have had a handful of seasons as a top five or six guy for the Conn Smythe I think.  And as happened more often than one might think, some "expert" voted him for him as a postseason All Star as the opposite wing from his actual position.

 

I would imagine King Richard must have been 2nd for the Conn Smythe in 1982 even with the sweep. Then when you add it all up...Stanley Cup final, AVCO Cup championship, another AVCO Cup final, WHA postseason All Star, 6th for the Vezina in the NHL plus now 2nd for the Conn Smythe and NO WAY IN HECK he was below 3rd place...people would stop calling me cuckoo for saying he's a slam dunk for the ROH.

 

And Bure, Linden and McLean were more or less part of a six-way logjam for the Conn Smythe in 1994 the way it was Fleury, Lindros, Jagr, Coffey and Hasek for the Hart in 1995.

 

 

Edited November 17 by Kevin Biestra

[Kevin Biestra]

4 hours ago, IBatch said:

Not to spam this thread, but also thankfully Luongo didn't sign the offer sheet, i'm sure if he did the team would have matched anyways.   Instead Detroit went back to the same old well and was rewarded for it. 

 

Oddly enough if we matched Detroit's offer sheet we would have probably avoided the contract that we ended up being penalized for with a recapture until the sun goes red giant and swallows the earth.

[IBatch]

On 11/17/2024 at 3:50 PM, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I think Lu at his best is up there with the best ever, but I also think he spent a very large percentage of his time (for a Hall of Famer) not at his best and especially as a sieve when it mattered.  I specifically remember the one game where I saw Patrick Roy poop the bed and the one game where I saw grant Fuhr poop the bed.  Luongo seemed to do it half a dozen times in a single playoff run.  And not that it particularly matters as it is just one of the sixty minutes that go into the overall stats, but he is probably the worst NHL goalie I have ever seen in the 60th minute of regulation hockey.  I don't think I've ever seen anyone with his propensity to give up a goal in the last minute and either lose a shutout or have the other team tie the game.

 

Osgood...it has been a while and in this case maybe I am being influenced by his reputation a bit but I remember him mostly as a guy who was more than good enough to get the job done and hovered around 6th to 8th best goalie in the league maybe...sometimes a little higher than that and sometimes a little lower.  I don't really remember him as being better than, say, Andy Moog or Glenn Resch (that said I consider those two stronger candidates for the Hall of Fame than others seem to).  Osgood had the benefit of being on a great team and has the championships to show for it...but history seems to have put him in a category with guys like Kevin Stevens or even Rob Brown who did incredible things but have the responsibility for their achievements ascribed almost entirely to Mario Lemieux (as did Mario's junior linemate who himself had one of the all time best seasons in junior hockey history...and wasn't even drafted...ever).  Same happened to Rick Martin and Rene Robert with Gilbert Perreault, to Dave Taylor and Charlie SImmer with Marcel Dionne, to John LeClair with Eric Lindros.

 

I have Osgood above guys like Corey Crawford, Khabibulin and Niemi who were good enough to not cost their team a Stanley Cup.  I probably have him below guys like Barrasso and Vernon.  I definitely have him in the conversation as a Hall of Famer.  I think a guy like Curtis Joseph seemed to peak higher in terms of Vezina and Hart Trophy consideration.  Osgood got the Cups though and really, if Kevin Lowe is in for that reason, why not Osgood who was probably more instrumental to his team's success than Lowe.  And there's really not much reason Lowe should be in for his Stanley Cups but not JC Tremblay and Pete Mahovlich (both of whom had significantly higher peaks as players to go with their numerous Cup rings) and maybe Charlie Huddy.

 

Lowe was 5th, 7th and 8th for the Norris Trophy in his very best seasons.  Impressive without a doubt but really not separating himself much from someone like Paul Reinhart, Charlie Huddy, Ed Jovanovski or Dave Babych.  And Lowe achieved that with his forward lineup and Paul Coffey on the blueline, all of which seems to have worked in his favor, whereas I think Gary Suter probably gets penalized for having Al MacInnis (and then Chris Chelios) as his "big brother" on a great team.

 

 

 

 

For me Osgood's media shtick, a good goalie on a great team worked in the 90's and early 2000's, however he more then punted that after his return to Detroit.   He was better than Hasek was for them, and on par with Vernon anyways if not better in the post season.    I didn't think those Detroit teams were otherworldly, like the ones in the 90's that tied the mighty habs regular season record without loser points bolstering the totals (just extra games.    Those teams were top ten all-time.    THN picked the 2002 team as the 8th best team all time (for dynasty's they picked one season), hard to argue that given the on paper roster.   Shanny did though, saying they'd better sweep the 1997-98 teams, or they'd be limping by game 7 and lose.     The 2000's team led by Datsyuk didn't get one vote for top 25 all-time by comparison.   

 

COL was up to the task, actually won their series, meeting 7 times in a row, won 4 times lost 3.   Also up to the task against NJ a head to head Roy/Broduer show down.   Vernon won one cup for Detroit, Osgood won two as starters, one as a back-up.    Watched all of those teams play, and the late 2000's ones were not even close to as good as their earlier versions.   Yzerman and Federov both were better players than Datsyuk, their best forward.    Shanny was way better than Zetterberg.    As for defense, Konstantinov according to Holland anyways (and he should know), said he had a better career trajectory then Lidstrom, absolutely on the way to the HHOF.   Then guys like Larionov, Festisov (one of the greatest Russians all-time)... So don't think people are ranking that team properly.    SJ and Vancouver won just as many regular season games as they did over a 14 year period (2000-2014), all of Datsyuk/Zetterberg 30 plus year old Lidstrom years.   And the teams we had later with Luongo were at least their equals if not better (09-2012). 

 

Osgood was their difference maker.   Often during those series the announcers discussed Conn Smythe potentials, it was Zetterbeg and Osgood their first go at it, and all Osgood the second time.     Saying Luongo would have won them "at least 3 cups" is silly.   Luongo's series were all over the map.   Some outstanding, some serviceable, and some not so good at all.     Osgood in 07-08 was outstanding from start to finish. 

 

Agree he wasn't ever considered a top goalie, but he was awfully close to Roy/Quick/Hextall/Ranford level for two post seasons.   Wasn't so bad in the late 90's for them either.   Not good enough then to go after a big name almost done in Hasek.  Who won one cup for them on a loaded 2002 team (that we actually played up to before Cloutier was broken by Lidstroms long bomb, and Yzerman was the best player that series both teams) ... Osgood went to St. Louis, Detroit did nothing special while he was away ... then won a cup and returned to the final.    And one goal separated that series in the end.    MAF made a spectacular save, late in game 7, otherwise it would have gone to OT. 

Edited November 19 by IBatch