Toccfather Posted November 22 Posted November 22 With the recent 32 thoughts podcast being released. I wanted to do a pro/con of a potential trade for Big Z. Van: Big Z (500K retained), T.Frederic Bos: Hoglander, Forbort or Desharnais(preferably) + 2024 4th round pick. Pros: We all saw what Zadorov brought to this team. A certain swagger/cockiness and toughness. We finally had a Dman with some intimidation, who could make a first pass, clear the front of the net and make a big hit. I also like the upside of Frederic from a grit perspective. On a bit of a down year, but has scored over 20 goals before. Cons: is this exactly what we need? (Opinions) obviously the term is a big concern as well & trading Hoglander, who could break out after. My perspective: i don't hate the trade. I think Frederic on the 4th line provides a lot of scrappiness, makes us more annoying to play against. Then Z takes our D to what we were last year. He elevates his game in the playoffs and provides a lot of energy for the team. A team with Zadorov Miller Joshua Sherwood Frederic Talk about annoying/hard to play against. Anyways. Thoughts and opinions? 1 Quote
grumpyone Posted November 22 Posted November 22 this is a closer to reality trade than others I've seen. I actually laughed when someone, probably from Boston proposed an even swap of Garland for Zadorov. The money is almost equal, but that's as close as it gets. Quote
EdgarM Posted November 22 Posted November 22 I am all for what ever makes us tougher to play against and over all team toughness. This has to be a factor for us because we have players that don't have a lot of physicality(i.e. Petey, Garland, Hughes and Boeser etc.), especially when we are in the playoffs. Soucy was not very physical and Myers provided some minimal physical presence during the playoffs last year. Sherwood is going to be a god send, I can't wait to see what he will do for us. We did a fairly good job containing the likes of McDavid and Draisytl last year in the playoffs but we need bigger, stronger defenseman who can put those guys on their ass if need be. I am much more comfortable seeing a Zadorov/Brannstrom( or ???? trade) second pairing then Myers/Soucy. Quote
Nucker67 Posted November 22 Posted November 22 The idea below will likely not happen, but there have recently been Miller, M. Pettersson and Zadorov rumours lately, so why not to BOS - Miller to VAN - Zadorov, Frederic and a 1st to PIT - Soucy to VAN - M. Pettersson Maybe use the extra 1st to acquire a #2C upgrade DeBrusk - E. Pettersson - Boeser Joshua - Frederic - Garland Suter - Blueger - Sherwood Heinen - Raty - Hoglander Bains Hughes - Hronek M. Pettersson - Brannstrom Zadorov - Myers Desharnais Quote
Pears Posted November 22 Posted November 22 1 hour ago, Nucker67 said: The idea below will likely not happen, but there have recently been Miller, M. Pettersson and Zadorov rumours lately, so why not to BOS - Miller to VAN - Zadorov, Frederic and a 1st to PIT - Soucy to VAN - M. Pettersson Maybe use the extra 1st to acquire a #2C upgrade DeBrusk - E. Pettersson - Boeser Joshua - Frederic - Garland Suter - Blueger - Sherwood Heinen - Raty - Hoglander Bains Hughes - Hronek M. Pettersson - Brannstrom Zadorov - Myers Desharnais What Miller rumours? Quote
Toccfather Posted November 22 Author Posted November 22 3 hours ago, Nucker67 said: The idea below will likely not happen, but there have recently been Miller, M. Pettersson and Zadorov rumours lately, so why not to BOS - Miller to VAN - Zadorov, Frederic and a 1st to PIT - Soucy to VAN - M. Pettersson Maybe use the extra 1st to acquire a #2C upgrade DeBrusk - E. Pettersson - Boeser Joshua - Frederic - Garland Suter - Blueger - Sherwood Heinen - Raty - Hoglander Bains Hughes - Hronek M. Pettersson - Brannstrom Zadorov - Myers Desharnais Bro, were not trading JT. Despite what he's going through this year, he is a 80-100 point player every year and heart/soul leader. We're trying to add, not take away something substantial from our team. 1 Quote
Coconuts Posted November 22 Posted November 22 Lot of teams have supposedly checked in on Frederic, gotta think the Bruins would be better off moving him separately if they make him available If the Canucks want him they'll have to beat out other teams Quote
Toccfather Posted November 22 Author Posted November 22 4 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Lot of teams have supposedly checked in on Frederic, gotta think the Bruins would be better off moving him separately if they make him available If the Canucks want him they'll have to beat out other teams I don't doubt that. Personally I would trade both Hogs&Desharnais for Zads (500K refention). Cap works out better as well. The gritty forward i want at the Deadline is M.Olivier anyways. 1 Quote
Coconuts Posted November 22 Posted November 22 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Toccfather said: I don't doubt that. Personally I would trade both Hogs&Desharnais for Zads (500K refention). Cap works out better as well. The gritty forward i want at the Deadline is M.Olivier anyways. Frankly, I'm not interested in Zadorov, but I'm not sure that sort of return would do Boston any favours. I don't see Hoglander's trade value as being as high as some others seem to think it is, and I don't view Desharnais or Forbort as having much trade value either. Hoglander has a 3M extension kicking in next season, he's scored twice in 18 games. 5 points in 18 games isn't the worst thing in the world, but it's not great if we're trying to sell his upside. Some folks will point to his 24 goals in 80 games last season, I'd point to his 20% shooting percentage and his career average being 12.4%. He's cracked ten goals three times, he's cracked twenty goals once. He's going to be 24 in December, so he's gradually approaching "he is what he is" territory, he's not a young prospect anymore. https://www.quanthockey.com/hockey-stats/en/profile.php?player=53522 Could he turn things around and become a legit top six winger? Possibly. Is it likelier he's a middle six tweener? Possibly. Could he be solid value at 3M given that the cap will keep rising? Yeah, but that doesn't mean he'll be great value if his production reverts back to what to more of what we saw prior to last season. This isn't me dumping on Hoglander, I just question how other franchises view his trade value because this is what I'm seeing as a Canucks fan. If Boston does get to the point where they want to move Zadorov I think they'd be looking for a better return. A bottom pairing D, a mid 20's player whose struggled after a career year, and what'd probably be a middling 4th isn't really a meaningful return. Is it better than the 3rd and the 5th we gave up for Zadorov in the first place? Possibly, but Boston's also a franchise who presumably wants to get back to being competitive, as opposed to a Calgary franchise that's turning things over whilst overachieving. I've seen others question Zadorov's play for the Bruins thus far, but I'm not sure swapping him for Forbort or Desharnais on D makes Boston better. The other wrinkle is that Boston's missing an important defensive player in Hampus Lindholm, how much of their struggles do they attribute to that loss? Because it's a big loss. He's supposed to be out multiple weeks, can they tread water and stay in the mix til he gets back? Because I'd be surprised if Boston became significant sellers sooner than later, let alone them retaining cap on a contract with term. Push comes to shove, they could probably find someone to eat the entire contract without retention imo. Edited November 22 by Coconuts 1 Quote
Bob Long Posted November 22 Posted November 22 14 hours ago, Toccfather said: With the recent 32 thoughts podcast being released. I wanted to do a pro/con of a potential trade for Big Z. Van: Big Z (500K retained), T.Frederic Bos: Hoglander, Forbort or Desharnais(preferably) + 2024 4th round pick. Pros: We all saw what Zadorov brought to this team. A certain swagger/cockiness and toughness. We finally had a Dman with some intimidation, who could make a first pass, clear the front of the net and make a big hit. I also like the upside of Frederic from a grit perspective. On a bit of a down year, but has scored over 20 goals before. Cons: is this exactly what we need? (Opinions) obviously the term is a big concern as well & trading Hoglander, who could break out after. My perspective: i don't hate the trade. I think Frederic on the 4th line provides a lot of scrappiness, makes us more annoying to play against. Then Z takes our D to what we were last year. He elevates his game in the playoffs and provides a lot of energy for the team. A team with Zadorov Miller Joshua Sherwood Frederic Talk about annoying/hard to play against. Anyways. Thoughts and opinions? this would be a terrific deal for us imo. I suspect that we'd need to cough up more than the 4th tho, probably more like a 2nd for the retention. We could dump one of Vinnie or Forbot onto CHI for a late pick as well to get the deal done now. Quote
Bobby James Posted November 22 Posted November 22 No I don't think we should pursue Zad. While I liked him a lot last year, he's really a number 5 sometimes 4 guy (similar to Soucy honestly) and he's being overpaid right now with term and we're seeing the results of him playing top 4 in Boston. If Boston really wants out of the contract and are willing to retain some and take back a smaller return then sure Zad around 3.5 million is something I am much more into. 1 Quote
Provost Posted November 23 Posted November 23 (edited) If we are taking Zadorov back, which I am not entirely against… it had better be at a better price than what we were going to pay him coming off a great stretch. Prices now are also not the same as the start of silly season (July 1st UFA) when most mistakes happen. We would be buying low, and at his cap hit for such a long term he should have fairly substantial negative value based on his current play for them. It would be very amusing to get both players they signed for a big discount as Boston tries to get out of the long term cap liabilities they owe for them. Edited November 23 by Provost Quote
Bob Long Posted November 23 Posted November 23 1 hour ago, Alflives said: 4 out of 5 Empties support this proposal. What's the problem with that other empty? 1 Quote
Coconuts Posted November 23 Posted November 23 7 minutes ago, Bob Long said: What's the problem with that other empty? It's a wine bottle, pour decision Quote
qwijjibo Posted November 23 Posted November 23 (edited) I think any proposal that has Boston retaining salary for 6 seasons is destined to fail. Teams seldom retain for more than 1-2 seasons Edited November 23 by qwijjibo Quote
RWJC Posted November 23 Posted November 23 (edited) Boston is not going to retain a cent on Zadorov. Not so early in the season, not on a very recent signing, and certainly aren’t trying to dump his contract. If they did decide to make any kind of move it would be much later into the season if at all, and most certainly wouldn’t do us any favours. Question - as much as I loved having Z on this roster, are people really wanting to trade away assets TWICE for a 3rd pairing, highly inconsistent D who cashed in on a strong but short playoff run at the prime timing of his career (even with the other intangibles)? Not me. He made his choice. Look to the future now. I appreciate the proposals though. Edited November 23 by RWJC Quote
RWJC Posted November 23 Posted November 23 10 hours ago, Nucker67 said: The idea below will likely not happen, but there have recently been Miller, M. Pettersson and Zadorov rumours lately, so why not to BOS - Miller to VAN - Zadorov, Frederic and a 1st to PIT - Soucy to VAN - M. Pettersson Maybe use the extra 1st to acquire a #2C upgrade DeBrusk - E. Pettersson - Boeser Joshua - Frederic - Garland Suter - Blueger - Sherwood Heinen - Raty - Hoglander Bains Hughes - Hronek M. Pettersson - Brannstrom Zadorov - Myers Desharnais Quote
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