Got the Babych

https://theathletic.com/4863183/2023/09/18/nhl-best-players-list-2023-2024-season/ Actually hadn't seen this article, but it's a pretty well thought out list. Obviously lots of arguments can be made for players being a tier up or down from these rankings, but the cohorts are decent. It's from September, so some players may have changed, but EP has definitely not proven he should be higher so far this year. The company he has in the tier (2B) is accurate, even if the actual tiers are debatable. Aho, Barkov, Point, Eichel--all centers, similar age, and similar stats. Seem like reasonable comparables to me. As players that is. Contracts are comparables, but obviously need to be weighted somewhat depending on when they were signed. The list is flawed for sure, but are we mostly in agreement with those players as comparables, or are people still talking about EP being in the McDavid/ Matthews stratosphere (as the OP is asking)? Just looking to find some common ground/ parameters if this thread is going to go on for months!

I had Elite as my top, too, but the group has spoken with their votes. Arguments can be made for either, and really they could be seen as interchangeable in many ways. For the purposes of discussion, I think it helps if we just agree on the tiers, based on the majority. Definitely hard to choose with the teams you brought up, they are both full of franchise/ superstar/ elite talent, and it shows in their dominance. Glad Babych-esque showed strong. Where my old people at?

That’s actually some sweet 3d chess and hopefully what’s going on! keep scratching out points and get teams to focus on the “top” 2 lines (the Blueger and Suter lines). Then have the EP and JT lines explode come the playoffs.

Don't think that's summing up what i said, but I assume you are saying that, despite our record, we are not in the contender conversation. Agreed, don't think anyone is saying that, but there are certainly positives and this is the most exciting season in a decade. Consistently beating bad teams is actually a step up, and is promising. Facing top teams we are not fairing that well, but at least some consistency that shows us where we are at. We were those bad teams for the last decade.

Yeah, that's refreshing. This won't be a "try to stay employed for another season" negotiation, it will be for long term benefit of the team.

To be clear, I love Petey on our team. A lot. But the situation is, and I'm very confident that our very competent mgmt group sees the big picture in the same way, is this: Most teams, after sucking for a decade, have an exciting group of prospects in the pipeline with which to continue building towards a team that can contend for the foreseeable future. That is not us. The interesting path chosen to get us here means that we have a couple of great pieces in place, but no saviors coming from below to fill out the ranks. We have a franchise Dman, and a franchise goalie, which is huge. Petey is not a franchise player on a contender, nor is JTM. They are both star players, but we do not have a franchise forward (compared to contenders). But, there is still a path to a cup. It's difficult, but I guarantee it is the path PA is going down, and that is having a forward group that is not superstar level, but a committee of stars that, together, punch above their weight. PA has done well so far on this, finding value in support players that are largely carrying the team currently, but many are temporary unfortunately for the very fact that they are outplaying the stars and their contracts. Based on that, there is no way PA pays EP franchise player money based on "future potential". Simply no room for paying now for a best case scenario later. And yes, I'm drinking. I'll sign off, happy new year's to you all!

I think people's frustration is mostly to do with these continued comparisons to MCd and AM and suggesting EP should be paid similarly. These 2 players, whom I don't even like, have already consistently proven they are SuperStar/ Generational players. Both with multiple 40 goal seasons, each with a 60+ goal season, and the trophies. In AM's down year you referenced, he scored 40 goals.

Well, it's not what you said, but if you need the confirmation, sure. When you say someone is a 100 point player, it means that they are in fact, a 100 player. EP is not currently, though he did get over 100 points once in his career.

I could live with that if that's how it plays out. Don't think he's earned that yet, but hopefully would be value in a few years. Honestly don't think mgmt is willing to go that high, but it's all based on conjecture of course.

After 7 years on a bargain contract as one of the best players in the history of the NHL with a couple of Norris trophies? Yeah, I think I'll be Ok with that. How is that relevant to the Elias Pettersson contract thread?

Ummm, because if he turned it down, insisting that he should be paid amongst the very top players in the league, but isn't a top player in the league, negotiations start over. It was a gamble, didn't work out.

If he turned down 11.25 million, then that is why 10 million is in the discussion. Probably should have taken that.

QH is at worst top 3 in his position in the NHL. And has more points than Petey. And close enough in goals, as a defenseman.

He is a 25 year old with one 100 point season.

For sure he is right now. I wasn't saying Petey is the best on the team, just that he is a better 2 way player than McD . But, can't be a contender with either as our "franchise" forwards. Possibly with a group of reasonably paid "star" forwards though.