Bedard better than McDavid ?

[Blue]

I really don't understand why this is so controversial. How is this not similar to Crosby and Ovechkin ? Nobody laughed when someone said they would take Ovechkin over Crosby back in 2006. Or vise versa.

It could end up being a toss up between the two.

I think Bedard will end up being a more complete player and will rack up just as much personal hardware as McDavid will and will turn out to be a more valuable player than McDavid. But I could be wrong of course.

Bedard beat McDavid in points in junior in a more defensively sound league (WHL vs OHL) and beat him in points by almost a ppg in international play.

 

Bedard 2 ppg average/ junior 

McDavid 1.7 ppg average/ junior

 

Bedard 2.4 ppg intl play 

McDavid 1.0 ppg intl play 

 

 

Choose your fighter. I am choosing Bedard.

[Jess]

Bedard and McDavid played in different eras, so their scoring isn't purely comparable.

 

That said, it's too early to say. I predicted 100 points for him at one point (ended up settling at 87) for a rookie year, and a lot of people thought I was crazy, saying Chicago was too bad. I do think he could be a generational talent for sure, but let's wait until more than 20 career games before saying he's gonna be one of the greatest of all-time.

[Bob Long]

in what respects? 

 

As a pure sniper? certainly looks like he could be. 

[Dumb Nuck]

Too soon.

[Blue]

13 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

in what respects? 

 

As a pure sniper? certainly looks like he could be. 

In all respects really. Except the rush. Mcdavid is the best one on one rush player in the world. 

 

But I think Bedard will be better in all other categories. Shot , play making , team success , making teammates better. I also think Bedard could challenge McDavid in the personal hardware category.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

In all respects really. Except the rush. Mcdavid is the best one on one rush player in the world. 

 

But I think Bedard will be better in all other categories. Shot , play making , team success , making teammates better. I also think Bedard could challenge McDavid in the personal hardware category.

 

certainly appears to have that potential. 

 

Just wish he wasn't on such a hate-able team.

[Blue]

27 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Bedard and McDavid played in different eras, so their scoring isn't purely comparable.

 

That said, it's too early to say. I predicted 100 points for him at one point (ended up settling at 87) for a rookie year, and a lot of people thought I was crazy, saying Chicago was too bad. I do think he could be a generational talent for sure, but let's wait until more than 20 career games before saying he's gonna be one of the greatest of all-time.

 But why do we have to wait ? We didn't have to wait for Crosby or Ovechkin. Or McDavid. They were labeled generational before they set one foot on NHL ice. And nobody challenged it. 

 

But now the going sentiment seems to be that we have to " wait " for Bedard. That's bullshit imo. 

 

Especially considering that he's in the NHL now. And is breaking out now. It's not like it's 2021 and he's some far off prospect. 

 

 

[Nucker67]

Better team mate and person, probably

[Jess]

1 minute ago, Blue said:

 But why do we have to wait ? We didn't have to wait for Crosby or Ovechkin. Or McDavid. They were labeled generational before they set one foot on NHL ice. And nobody challenged it. 

 

But now the going sentiment seems to be that we have to " wait " for Bedard. That's bullshit imo. 

 

Especially considering that he's in the NHL now. And is breaking out now. It's not like it's 2021 and he's some far off prospect. 

 

 

 

I was certainly challenging it, and I think it's ridiculous to label anyone that kind of player, even if they score 1000 points in junior, before they hit NHL ice. Even now, if McDavid retired on the spot, I'm not sure I'd put him in that category. Need longevity to earn that title IMO. My standards for Bedard are the same as everyone else. I wait.

 

If I were to predict, I'd guess he'll be generational, but I won't be slapping that label officially on him for at least 10 more years.

[Blue]

2 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

I was certainly challenging it, and I think it's ridiculous to label anyone that kind of player, even if they score 1000 points in junior, before they hit NHL ice. Even now, if McDavid retired on the spot, I'm not sure I'd put him in that category. Need longevity to earn that title IMO. My standards for Bedard are the same as everyone else. I wait.

 

If I were to predict, I'd guess he'll be generational, but I won't be slapping that label officially on him for at least 10 more years.

That might be your personal take and I agree. In November 2013 , Sportsnet magazine wrote on the cover BETTER THAN CROSBY. No question mark or anything. Just better than Crosby period. With a pic of McDavid. And I was like ... Wtf.

 

But the hyped turned out to be right. It was right about Crosby, Ovechkin and Stamkos was hyped big also.

 

But the league sentiment this time , is that we have to wait. Is it because Bedard is a Canuck fan ot something ? I dunno. It's bullshit though 

[Jess]

Just now, Blue said:

That might be your personal take and I agree. In November 2013 , Sportsnet magazine wrote on the cover BETTER THAN CROSBY. No question mark or anything. Just better than Crosby period. With a pic of McDavid. And I was like ... Wtf.

 

But the hyped turned out to be right. It was right about Crosby, Ovechkin and Stamkos was hyped big also.

 

But the league sentiment this time , is that we have to wait. Is it because Bedard is a Canuck fan ot something ? I dunno. It's bullshit though 

 

It's possible that Lafreneire's slow start has people hesitant. I also thought he'd be at least a superstar player, akin to Stamkos or MacKinnon level, but he's been pretty far from that so far (though he's started better this year).

[Drakrami]

That's because of the playstyle. McDavid is out of this league. Hes got speed and gears that no one can defend. He can just walk in and score a goal and there's nothing you can do about it. That's how he got 150 points. 

 

What's special about Bedard? His shot and high hockey IQ. Is his shot so special that it will net him 100 goals? No. More like 50 goals. And his hockey IQ will may be get him to 100-120 points or something. That is still nothing compared to McDavid's production. 

[Jess]

Just now, Drakrami said:

That's because of the playstyle. McDavid is out of this league. Hes got speed and gears that no one can defend. He can just walk in and score a goal and there's nothing you can do about it. That's how he got 150 points. 

 

What's special about Bedard? His shot and high hockey IQ. Is his shot so special that it will net him 100 goals? No. More like 50 goals. And his hockey IQ will may be get him to 100-120 points or something. That is still nothing compared to McDavid's production. 

 

Hockey IQ is what got Gretzky 200+ points and what helped the Twins win their Art Ross trophies. I wouldn't count it out. Give it some time before writing Bedard off.

[Drakrami]

Just now, -AJ- said:

 

Hockey IQ is what got Gretzky 200+ points and what helped the Twins win their Art Ross trophies. I wouldn't count it out. Give it some time before writing Bedard off.

Do you think Bedard have higher hockey IQ than Crosby?  (Dont even need to mention Gretzky) I think not. 

[Jess]

Just now, Drakrami said:

Do you think Bedard have higher hockey IQ than Crosby?  (Dont even need to mention Gretzky) I think not. 

 

Not sure. What kind of sample size for Bedard do you have? Crosby has over 1200 games. What kind of sample size are you using to judge Bedard?

[Drakrami]

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

 

Not sure. What kind of sample size for Bedard do you have? Crosby has over 1200 games. What kind of sample size are you using to judge Bedard?

Saying this based on watching Crosby throughout his career and how he can see 2-3 steps ahead of any play. If we are talking about hockey IQ, I dont think anyone beats Crosby except for Gretzky. 

[Jess]

Just now, Drakrami said:

Saying this based on watching Crosby throughout his career and how he can see 2-3 steps ahead of any play. If we are talking about hockey IQ, I dont think anyone beats Crosby except for Gretzky. 

 

You rule out Bedard before his career even effectively begins? What if someone had done that with Gretzky or Crosby at the start of their careers?

[Coconuts]

Way too soon if you're talking NHL hockey. Could he be? That's subjective, but he isn't yet. Not at the NHL level. 

 

Could he be generational? Sure. But he'll need to prove it. 

[Blue]

16 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

That's because of the playstyle. McDavid is out of this league. Hes got speed and gears that no one can defend. He can just walk in and score a goal and there's nothing you can do about it. That's how he got 150 points. 

 

What's special about Bedard? His shot and high hockey IQ. Is his shot so special that it will net him 100 goals? No. More like 50 goals. And his hockey IQ will may be get him to 100-120 points or something. That is still nothing compared to McDavid's production. 

Nonsense. Bedard beat Mcdavid cleanly in junior. In a harder league. The WHL is a more defensively sound league than the OHL. 

 

Plus Mcdavid had better teammates in junior. And Bedard still beat him cleanly 

 

Bedard is Crosby with a Matthews shot. A more complete player than Mcdavid 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Blue

[Drakrami]

6 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

You rule out Bedard before his career even effectively begins? What if someone had done that with Gretzky or Crosby at the start of their careers?

No, why would you make conclusions for me? I have watched Bedard play. Hes great, but not out of this world like McDavid/Crosby was in their prime. For McDavid and Crosby, you can name why they are so successful and out of this league. There's nothing out of this league with Bedard I can name right now. 

[Jess]

1 minute ago, Drakrami said:

No, why would you make conclusions for me? I have watched Bedard play. Hes great, but not out of this world like McDavid/Crosby was in their prime. For McDavid and Crosby, you can name why they are so successful and out of this league. There's nothing out of this league with Bedard I can name right now. 

 

I suppose that's up to you in the end, but I wouldn't make a judgement of Bedard's play like that less than 20 games into his career. I believe he will continue to grow and change as he enters his 20s and matures.

[Blue]

5 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Way too soon if you're talking NHL hockey. Could he be? That's subjective, but he isn't yet. Not at the NHL level. 

 

Could he be generational? Sure. But he'll need to prove it. 

If Mcdavid , Crosby and Ovechkin didn't have to prove i  than neither does Bedard. 

 

He's in the NHL , he's making NHL veteran defensman and goalies look stupid in his first 15 games and ppl are still questioning if Bedard is going to be a star. I just don't get it 

[Blue]

8 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

No, why would you make conclusions for me? I have watched Bedard play. Hes great, but not out of this world like McDavid/Crosby was in their prime. For McDavid and Crosby, you can name why they are so successful and out of this league. There's nothing out of this league with Bedard I can name right now. 

Of course Bedard in his rookie year isn't as good as Crosby or Mcdavid in their prime ! Nobody is saying that. 

 

What we do know right now though is that Bedard was over 2 ppg through is jr career while Mcd  was just under at 1.7

[Coconuts]

10 minutes ago, Blue said:

If Mcdavid , Crosby and Ovechkin didn't have to prove i  than neither does Bedard. 

 

He's in the NHL , he's making NHL veteran defensman and goalies look stupid in his first 15 games and ppl are still questioning if Bedard is going to be a star. I just don't get it 

 

There's a difference between being a star and considered generational, which is a tag thrown around far too loosely. Crosby and Ovechkin are two of the most talented and decorated NHL players of all time, McDavid has piled up personal awards, Bedard has had a great start but hasn't accomplished anything comparable yet. I don't think there's anything wrong with folks wanting to be patient or pragmatic before proclaiming him as an all-time great. 

 

If he wants to be considered a top tier NHL forward he needs to get there first, he hasn't even played twenty games. Fantastic start, sure, but it's not even twenty games. 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Coconuts

[Blue]

34 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Do you think Bedard have higher hockey IQ than Crosby?  (Dont even need to mention Gretzky) I think not. 

 

His hockey IQ is within 10% of Crosby and he has a better shot than Crosby. His athletisism is right there with Crosby too