wai_lai416 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 While everyone is out with their early trophy rankings etc.. I’m curious to know why there’s not an award for the best forward in the nhl? you have the vezina for the goalie you have the Norris for the defenceman and you have the selke for the best 2 way defensive forward so where’s the award for the best offensive forward? You can argue the Art ross and rocket Richard, but those are a statistical award and not necessary the best player.. and just like the hart trophy.. technically anyone have a chance at winning them including defenceman and goalie not like a strict forward only award. Best offensive forward doesn’t necessary have to be the art Ross or rocket Richard winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenbean30 Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 99% of the time the winner of the Art Ross would win this award if there was an award for best Offensive Forward. Hard to argue that the player who put up the most points in the year isn't the best offensive forward in the league. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 People have long argued for a Paul Coffey award that goes to the best offensive D-man. But the best offensive forward that doesn't get the Art Ross? Can you give an instance when that happened? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted November 10, 2023 Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 30 minutes ago, greenbean30 said: 99% of the time the winner of the Art Ross would win this award if there was an award for best Offensive Forward. Hard to argue that the player who put up the most points in the year isn't the best offensive forward in the league. Sure but the makars and Hughes are right up there in points and even last year karlsson and in the future it may not be a lock that a forward will guaranteed the most points Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted November 10, 2023 Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: People have long argued for a Paul Coffey award that goes to the best offensive D-man. But the best offensive forward that doesn't get the Art Ross? Can you give an instance when that happened? I dunno ask bobby Orr he won the art ross twice iirc. So whichever forward finish behind him would be the best forward to not win the art ross or any award. It’s rare but not impossible given the rate the new generation defenceman is scoring at. Karlsson last year is already higher than 2 of the last 10 years I think Edited November 10, 2023 by wai_lai416 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 13 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: I dunno ask bobby Orr he won the art ross twice iirc. So whichever forward finish behind him would be the best forward to not win the art ross or any award. It’s rare but not impossible given the rate the new generation defenceman is scoring at. Karlsson last year is already higher than 2 of the last 10 years I think If it's that rare (you had to go all the way back to Orr), does the NHL really need that new award? Even if someone like Hughes wins, why does that require a change? Sometimes a goalie or D-man wins the Hart but that doesn't mean the NHL should add another award for a forward MVP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted November 10, 2023 Author Share Posted November 10, 2023 Just now, Miss Korea said: If it's that rare (you had to go all the way back to Orr), does the NHL really need that new award? Even if someone like Hughes wins, why does that require a change? Sometimes a goalie or D-man wins the Hart but that doesn't mean the NHL should add another award for a forward MVP. Just coz there isn’t really a forward only award for offence. Makar and Hughes if they keep their rate the past couple years if there’s no Mcdavid they have legitimate shot at it. Vezina is kinda like the goalie mvp award Norris is kinda like the defenceman mvp award but both are eligible for the hart wheres the forward mvp award? Having the most points doesn’t = mvp example if a guy have 120 points and loses the art Ross to a guy with 121 point but he played 10 games less. I won’t think of the guy that won the art Ross as the best offensive player. So art ross really doesn’t mean he’s the best player. Just like if a guy scores 70 goals and finish with 100 points. I would still think of him as a better offensive player than a guy finish with 101 points and only 30 goals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 24 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Just coz there isn’t really a forward only award for offence. Makar and Hughes if they keep their rate the past couple years if there’s no Mcdavid they have legitimate shot at it. Vezina is kinda like the goalie mvp award Norris is kinda like the defenceman mvp award but both are eligible for the hart wheres the forward mvp award? Having the most points doesn’t = mvp example if a guy have 120 points and loses the art Ross to a guy with 121 point but he played 10 games less. I won’t think of the guy that won the art Ross as the best offensive player. So art ross really doesn’t mean he’s the best player. Just like if a guy scores 70 goals and finish with 100 points. I would still think of him as a better offensive player than a guy finish with 101 points and only 30 goals A lot of ifs you're throwing around for the NHL not to worry much about things. If the best player only plays 70 games, he'll be hard-pressed to win an award. If your 70-goal guy is valued over the 101-point Art Ross man, give him the Hart. That's exactly how Corey Perry beat out Daniel Sedin. Besides, your hypothetical goal scorer is going to take home the Richard. That is basically a forward-only award. The Ted Lindsay Award also goes to forwards 90% of the time. You picked the one thing that gets awarded in the NHL ad nauseum - the offensive forward. If defencemen start scoring 100 points regularly, don't you think the NHL should add another award for... defencemen?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jess Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 The Ted Lindsay and Hart already go to forwards most of the time, so that's basically your award. Only maybe 10% of the time does a defenseman or goalie win them, so 90% of the time, the award would just be one of either the Ted Lindsay or Hart winners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biff Tannen Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 I don't think they really need another award, but if I was making an argument for it instead of looking at it as 'forwards usually win the Hart so why reward them twice?' maybe if there was a separate award goalies and D would stand more of a chance at winning best overall. But then the Hart would be pretty redundant cos it would just be a choice between the winner of the Norris, Vezina, and this new one and I'm not convinced you can meaningfully compare a forward to a goalie. As is the best offensive forward wins unless there's a standout perfomer - so far this century Price, Theodore, Pronger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gawdzukes Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Awards are silly for grownups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 When are they giving awards to players for the "best hidden hotdog under the pads"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Biestra Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 (edited) Most of the time defensemen and goalies don't get anything close to fair consideration for the Hart so I think forwards actually have it pretty good. The Hart usually just doubles as the Art Ross and/or Rocket Richard Trophy and the Pearson does as well. That said I've generally got no problem with introducing new awards for worthwhile categories. Edited November 11, 2023 by Kevin Biestra Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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