[Signing] Canucks sign 4th rounder Ty Mueller

[filthy animal]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:21 AM, PureQuickness said:

 

It looks like THIS management can draft and develop a  hell of a lot better than Gillis did. This is proof that you can be competitive and draft properly.

 

LOL why are you comparing Gillis and Rutherford? You know who they are both better than? Jim Benning

 

Pure Nonsense you're too funny

 

"All Gillis has are playoff runs" ahhaha you sound like a goof in CDC named Dazzle

 

 

 

 

Edited April 2 by filthy animal

[RJCF96]

23 minutes ago, filthy animal said:

 

So what? You think our prospects cupboard was overflowing when Rutherford took over? LOL Jacob Truscott, Brisbois, Jett Woo, Jack Rathbone? What happend to those guys?

 

You know whats really bad, having 1 legit playoff run in what? 8 seasons. You know whats bad? Finishing bottom 5 every damn season, throwing away more picks than any Canucks GM, oh by the end of it, was in cap hell.

 

Honestly Pure Nonsense, if drafting is the only thing you care about,do us all a favor and keep your comments on hfboards.

 

We are in the business of winning

Rutherford and Allvin took over a pool of prospects that isn't too impressive. However, they also inherited a core of Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Horvat, Miller and Demko. Prominent players you can build a team around in each key position, and they were all either at/entering their prime of their career. The best prospects are the ones who already made the team.

 

Rutherford and Allvin's biggest challenge was to revamp the roster because Benning surrounded the core with some bad contracts and ineffective players for their role (especially in the defense).

 

Their biggest challenge was the manage the cap, make cap space, revamp the roster so the team has a chance to win with Pettersson/Hughes/Demko/Miller. They made some tough decisions to create the team we have this season.

 

I stand by the fact that if Jim Benning was locked away in a closet on free-agent frenzy every year during his tenure, the team would be in a much better position overall, and he would be remembered as the GM who built the core of this team.

 

Unfortunately, Benning's in ability to handle the cap, and how he botched the team's communication at all levels leads to such an ineffective management group which leads to unsuccessful on-ice product.

 

I am glad Benning got fired, just wish he was fired 6 months earlier, so we didn't had to deal with the repercussions of the OEL trade.

[filthy animal]

42 minutes ago, RJCF96 said:

Rutherford and Allvin took over a pool of prospects that isn't too impressive. However, they also inherited a core of Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Horvat, Miller and Demko. Prominent players you can build a team around in each key position, and they were all either at/entering their prime of their career. The best prospects are the ones who already made the team.

 

Rutherford and Allvin's biggest challenge was to revamp the roster because Benning surrounded the core with some bad contracts and ineffective players for their role (especially in the defense).

 

Their biggest challenge was the manage the cap, make cap space, revamp the roster so the team has a chance to win with Pettersson/Hughes/Demko/Miller. They made some tough decisions to create the team we have this season.

 

I stand by the fact that if Jim Benning was locked away in a closet on free-agent frenzy every year during his tenure, the team would be in a much better position overall, and he would be remembered as the GM who built the core of this team.

 

Unfortunately, Benning's in ability to handle the cap, and how he botched the team's communication at all levels leads to such an ineffective management group which leads to unsuccessful on-ice product.

 

I am glad Benning got fired, just wish he was fired 6 months earlier, so we didn't had to deal with the repercussions of the OEL trade.

 

Yup, unfortunately some users here only seem to equate Benning's job in drafting as a successful tenure but somehow forgetting the other parts of the job. 

 

OEL trade by far is the worst trade in Canucks history

 

I give Benning as much credit as Chiarelli drafting McDavid, little to nothing. A broken clock is right twice a day, especially one that overstayed his welcome for 8 seasons and handed us the most embarrassing era of the Canucks ever had

Edited April 2 by filthy animal

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, filthy animal said:

 

Yup, unfortunately some users here only seem to equate Benning's job in drafting as a successful tenure but somehow forgetting the other parts of the job

 

OEL trade by far is the worst trade in Canucks history

Benning will not get another GM job. Too incompetent. 

[PureQuickness]

1 hour ago, filthy animal said:

 

So what? You think our prospects cupboard was overflowing when Rutherford took over? LOL Jacob Truscott, Brisbois, Jett Woo, Jack Rathbone? What happend to those guys?

 

You know whats really bad, having 1 legit playoff run in what? 8 seasons. You know whats bad? Finishing bottom 5 every damn season, throwing away more picks than any Canucks GM, oh by the end of it, was in cap hell.

 

Honestly Pure Nonsense, if drafting is the only thing you care about,do us all a favor and keep your comments on hfboards.

 

We are in the business of winning

 

The core is in place - and that's all Benning. Rutherford, like Gillis, has put in improvements.

 

To deny Benning's contributions is dishonest. Make no mistake though, Benning has been fired and replaced BECAUSE he couldn't in any of his years here take advantage of what he DID set up. JR/Allvin look like they have put the core over the top (so far).

 

There is a need for balanced narrative. To say that Benning did "nothing" is inaccurate. However, there is a need to acknowledge that Gillis left nothing for Benning to build on. It took Benning a long time to re-establish a core. There was no such "core" after Gillis - unlike the core left behind by Burke/Nonis to build on.

[PureQuickness]

6 minutes ago, filthy animal said:

 

Yup, unfortunately some users here only seem to equate Benning's job in drafting as a successful tenure but somehow forgetting the other parts of the job. 

 

OEL trade by far is the worst trade in Canucks history

 

I give Benning as much credit as Chiarelli drafting McDavid, little to nothing. A broken clock is right twice a day, especially one that overstayed his welcome for 8 seasons and handed us the most embarrassing era of the Canucks ever had

 

That's bad because Gillis literally drafted little to nothing lol. Who did we even have after Gillis left before Benning took over? Kesler (with a two team NTC list), Markstrom, Tanev, and ZERO prospects.

 

That's CRAP, regardless of what Gillis did before. A winning team NEEDS a GM to be able to replenish the roster and make a new core if necessary. You can't do that without proper drafting. Hell, if Gillis had drafted a goaltender or a defenseman in the 1st or 2nd round, it would've helped.

 

However, Gillis' draft record WAS a major reason why we were struggling for so many years.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 hour ago, filthy animal said:

 

LOL why are you comparing Gillis and Rutherford? You know who they are both better than? Jim Benning

 

Pure Nonsense you're too funny

 

"All Gillis has are playoff runs" ahhaha you sound like a goof in CDC named Dazzle

 

 

 

 

 

I mean, ya gotta hand it to the guy, at least he ain't trumpeting the thoughts of

Former AGM Chris Gear

as the basis of his arguments... 

[PureQuickness]

1 hour ago, RJCF96 said:

Rutherford and Allvin took over a pool of prospects that isn't too impressive. However, they also inherited a core of Pettersson, Hughes, Boeser, Horvat, Miller and Demko. Prominent players you can build a team around in each key position, and they were all either at/entering their prime of their career. The best prospects are the ones who already made the team.

 

Rutherford and Allvin's biggest challenge was to revamp the roster because Benning surrounded the core with some bad contracts and ineffective players for their role (especially in the defense).

 

Their biggest challenge was the manage the cap, make cap space, revamp the roster so the team has a chance to win with Pettersson/Hughes/Demko/Miller. They made some tough decisions to create the team we have this season.

 

I stand by the fact that if Jim Benning was locked away in a closet on free-agent frenzy every year during his tenure, the team would be in a much better position overall, and he would be remembered as the GM who built the core of this team.

 

Unfortunately, Benning's in ability to handle the cap, and how he botched the team's communication at all levels leads to such an ineffective management group which leads to unsuccessful on-ice product.

 

I am glad Benning got fired, just wish he was fired 6 months earlier, so we didn't had to deal with the repercussions of the OEL trade.

 

This is exactly the fair narrative I was demanding. Some posters will defend Gillis tooth and nail, even though he failed parts of his job description and leaving the cupboard bare. Benning has had many tries to get the team into a strong playoff spot, and part of that fault lies in him hiring Green, who, like Benning, has had lots of opportunities to do so.

 

I'm not a Benning fan. I'm a realist. I can spot the good parts of Gillis and Benning and balance it with the negatives of their regime. There's a reason they're both fired @filthy animal 

 

All I'm saying is that while Benning failed in his duties as GM, Gillis ain't any good either as a long-term GM. His failings with drafting and development (which even he admits) was a major problem for the Canucks.

[cripplereh]

On 3/31/2024 at 10:33 AM, Alflives said:

This management drafted from the lottery position their first two years. They are a great management, but have yet to reach the level of Gillis greatness. But they did have to overcome the Benning stain. And they are very good at getting players like this one, who will compete for bottom six roles. 

That right there is the Big difference.

Gillis got handed a great team,made some good deals to keep them going.

 

 

This group got a good core but that's it.They have had one of the worst contract issues ever by a GM in Van and have done great.Firat two years I would put them miles ahead of Gillis.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

That right there is the Big difference.

Gillis got handed a great team,made some good deals to keep them going.

 

 

This group got a good core but that's it.They have had one of the worst contract issues ever by a GM in Van and have done great.Firat two years I would put them miles ahead of Gillis.

So far they are great, especially considering (as you point out) their starting point being so difficult after the moran Benning. 

[filthy animal]

On 4/2/2024 at 3:28 PM, PureQuickness said:

 

This is exactly the fair narrative I was demanding. Some posters will defend Gillis tooth and nail, even though he failed parts of his job description and leaving the cupboard bare. Benning has had many tries to get the team into a strong playoff spot, and part of that fault lies in him hiring Green, who, like Benning, has had lots of opportunities to do so.

 

I'm not a Benning fan. I'm a realist. I can spot the good parts of Gillis and Benning and balance it with the negatives of their regime. There's a reason they're both fired @filthy animal 

 

All I'm saying is that while Benning failed in his duties as GM, Gillis ain't any good either as a long-term GM. His failings with drafting and development (which even he admits) was a major problem for the Canucks.

 

And yet youve gone into every detail.of Gillis failings drafting, cutting and pasting hockeydb over and over again, but yet fail to acknowledge the failures of Benning on the draft board. How come you havent uttered these names, Goldobin, Dahlen, Sutter, Gudbranson? Those are guys were acquired using Gillis assets, whose fault was it that they failed? Or how about his many many flops in free agency? Arent you gonna even mention Beagle, Ericsson etc?

 

Again you claim to be unbiased but youre a run of the mill Benning fan boy that hops on Gillis main failure and completely glosses over Bennings many many failures in every dept of the franchise, top to bottom, management, right down to the farm. I get that had Gillis drafts, even just one or two more would hit, i have no doubt Benning probably wouldve been a little more successful but you cant just depend on that. Benning was hired to do a job and failed miserably on all levels. Even his drafting, yeah he was better than the other guy but lets not confuse him for Jim Nill, Yzerman, David Poile, these uber talent evaluators. Benning had a very very low bar to pass on the draft table. 

 

And for the record ive criticised Gillis drafting prowess many times over, the guy probably had his draftboard upside down, but the man won a lot of games, little did we know what kind of trash the next guy was gonna bring the next 8 seasons.

 

Either way, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, theyll still be talking about the magical run of 2011 while your boy Benning will be a running joke

 

Seriously, make that poll, Ballard trade vs Oel trade, post it in the forum, which one as the worst trade lol, keep making a fool out of yourself

Edited April 4 by filthy animal

[filthy animal]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:05 PM, cripplereh said:

That right there is the Big difference.

Gillis got handed a great team,made some good deals to keep them going.

 

 

This group got a good core but that's it.They have had one of the worst contract issues ever by a GM in Van and have done great.Firat two years I would put them miles ahead of Gillis.

 

Great team? The Nonis team Gillis inherited missed the playoffs 2 out of 3 times. Thats hardly what i considered a great team. They were a borderline playoff team, which was a lot better than many of Bennings teams. 

 

If that was great, i guess the team that Benning inherited was a juggernaut at least by your definition. 7 years, missed the playoffs once, solid 100 pt team. Well, i guess Benning did have it good after all!! 

Edited April 4 by filthy animal

[filthy animal]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:11 PM, Alflives said:

So far they are great, especially considering (as you point out) their starting point being so difficult after the moran Benning. 

 

Rutheford had a much much harder job than Benning. Benning didnt inherit much but at least he had a chance to start with a clean slate with contracts expriring. Benning traded Kesler, Burrows, Hansen, jason garrison and got nice assets for them which Benning fumbled on all of them

 

Rutherford inherited a core that was a perennial loser, a farm team that, despite having bottom 5 finishes, was  annualy managed to cough up, what, 2 nhl regulars? (Demko, gaudette), missing draft picks, and was in cap hell. Not to mentiom a bare cupboard when it comes to prospects, Rutherford had it way worse

Edited April 4 by filthy animal

[filthy animal]

On 4/2/2024 at 3:12 PM, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

I mean, ya gotta hand it to the guy, at least he ain't trumpeting the thoughts of

Former AGM Chris Gear

as the basis of his arguments... 

 

Lol geezus remember that thread ! Haha man as much pure nonsense has different views, at least hes using facts, albeit very limited and very cherry picked. Whats his name ConquestforMuffins? Or some crap. That guy was completely delusional, just making up crap left and right. Too funny! And him flexing his "business acumen" lol  absolute comedy GOLD!

 

 

 

[PureQuickness]

2 hours ago, filthy animal said:

 

And yet youve gone into every detail.of Gillis failings drafting, cutting and pasting hockeydb over and over again, but yet fail to acknowledge the failures of Benning on the draft board. How come you havent uttered these names, Goldobin, Dahlen, Sutter, Gudbranson? Those are guys were acquired using Gillis assets, whose fault was it that they failed? Or how about his many many flops in free agency? Arent you gonna even mention Beagle, Ericsson etc?

 

Again you claim to be unbiased but youre a run of the mill Benning fan boy that hops on Gillis main failure and completely glosses over Bennings many many failures in every dept of the franchise, top to bottom, management, right down to the farm. I get that had Gillis drafts, even just one or two more would hit, i have no doubt Benning probably wouldve been a little more successful but you cant just depend on that. Benning was hired to do a job and failed miserably on all levels. Even his drafting, yeah he was better than the other guy but lets not confuse him for Jim Nill, Yzerman, David Poile, these uber talent evaluators. Benning had a very very low bar to pass on the draft table. 

 

And for the record ive criticised Gillis drafting prowess many times over, the guy probably had his draftboard upside down, but the man won a lot of games, little did we know what kind of trash the next guy was gonna bring the next 8 seasons.

 

Either way, 20, 30, 40, 50 years from now, theyll still be talking about the magical run of 2011 while your boy Benning will be a running joke

 

Seriously, make that poll, Ballard trade vs Oel trade, post it in the forum, which one as the worst trade lol, keep making a fool out of yourself

 

Winning games in the past was meaningless. He didn't win, no matter how close it was. The future was completely fucked over by a GM who can't read his drafting reports, which as you said was held upside down.

 

That is NOT a GM you want long term. Just like Benning, Gillis had plenty of times to fix his drafting, but nada.

 

Benning's saving grace of a disastrous regime was his drafting: Boeser, Demko, Hoglander. For the high picks, Pettersson, Hughes, Podkolzin. Though the OEL trade was pretty awful, Garland was a critical piece that ended up working out for us. Not to mention, the trade for Miller.

 

As I said, winning games is meaningless when you don't win the cup. The PRICE paid to try and win playoff games meant sacrificing the future - and it wasn't even a good sacrifice as Gillis didn't make the best out of his draft picks. The fact that he couldn't draft a Demko OR a Hoglander in ANY of his drafts is a damning part of his regime.

 

Benning/Gillis are both gone. No excuses for either of them. New management has shown they are doing what these other two couldn't do. I like Willander and I love D Pettersson. These two picks are awesome alone, let alone this 4th rounder that they've signed, which they're obviously high on. We couldn't draft shit for the longest time under Gillis.

 

[cripplereh]

7 hours ago, filthy animal said:

 

Great team? The Nonis team Gillis inherited missed the playoffs 2 out of 3 times. Thats hardly what i considered a great team. They were a borderline playoff team, which was a lot better than many of Bennings teams. 

 

If that was great, i guess the team that Benning inherited was a juggernaut at least by your definition. 7 years, missed the playoffs once, solid 100 pt team. Well, i guess Benning did have it good after all!! 

LOL he kept the main pieces together,added a few and we made the cup finals.Hmmmm guess you didn't look to much.

[CanuckMan]

On 4/2/2024 at 4:05 PM, cripplereh said:

That right there is the Big difference.

Gillis got handed a great team,made some good deals to keep them going.

 

 

This group got a good core but that's it.They have had one of the worst contract issues ever by a GM in Van and have done great.Firat two years I would put them miles ahead of Gillis.

Gillis got handed a good core? So did Alvin and company not get handed a good core in Petey, Miller, Boeser, Hughes, Demko and supporting pieces in Hoglander, Garland, etc.

The one area that Alvin has excelled in is revamping our entire D. But the difference makers (the first 5/core 5) are still Benning guys.

[PureQuickness]

2 hours ago, CanuckMan said:

Gillis got handed a good core? So did Alvin and company not get handed a good core in Petey, Miller, Boeser, Hughes, Demko and supporting pieces in Hoglander, Garland, etc.

The one area that Alvin has excelled in is revamping our entire D. But the difference makers (the first 5/core 5) are still Benning guys.

 

Some people are in absolute denial and want to make excuses for certain GMs while slamming another GM with impunity. That's straight up bias.

Gillis objectively brought a lot of excitement to this fanbase - and he is deserving of that praise. He made smart choices with free agents and trades (for the most part). I loved Lapierre and Rome while the Sedins, Kesler, and so forth did their thing. Luongo was amazing. However, the dark side to the Gillis era was the poor draft picks year after year. It's almost like we aren't allowed to objectively criticize Gillis with some people.

 

Benning, for all his faults, set up the core of this team. That is a FACT. It's a fact because when you LOOK who these players are, they were all done under one GM. Gillis, on the other hand, had no such core set up after 2011. In fact, the players that were even relevant from 2011 to 2014 were NONIS/BURKE eras. It's ridiculous! No replacement for Edler. No replacement for the Twins. We just had Tanev, Markstrom, and Horvat. That's it. That's not a core. LOL.

[robr1can2]

And why is this GM discussion in Ty Mueller's conversation?

[CanuckMan]

49 minutes ago, robr1can2 said:

And why is this GM discussion in Ty Mueller's conversation?

Because we are all Canucks 

[robr1can2]

2 hours ago, CanuckMan said:

Because we are all Canucks 

Yes we are, but this constant argument about GMs should have a topic of its own. Whether JM ever becomes a Canuck or not (because "we are all Canucks), his "news" or updates has anything to do with this GM discourse. Take it somewhere else please.

[Snoop Hogg]

On 4/2/2024 at 2:27 PM, Alflives said:

Benning will not get another GM job. Too incompetent. 

Gillis didn’t get another GM job either. 

[cripplereh]

15 hours ago, CanuckMan said:

Gillis got handed a good core? So did Alvin and company not get handed a good core in Petey, Miller, Boeser, Hughes, Demko and supporting pieces in Hoglander, Garland, etc.

The one area that Alvin has excelled in is revamping our entire D. But the difference makers (the first 5/core 5) are still Benning guys.

Way to point out the obvious

[Alflives]

8 hours ago, Snoop Hogg said:

Gillis didn’t get another GM job either. 

Gillis was GM during our club’s most successful era. He did a great job and won GM of the year. He will not get another job because he broke the code of silence and always (publicly) supporting his ownership. Benning’s not getting another job because he’s craperolla. 

[Bob Long]

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Gillis was GM during our club’s most successful era. He did a great job and won GM of the year. He will not get another job because he broke the code of silence and always (publicly) supporting his ownership. Benning’s not getting another job because he’s craperolla. 

 

Never bite the hand that feeds