Frank Seravalli on the Canucks (He's right!)

[Canuck You]

I love this, Seems like as much good we can do there is always a excuse for something..And I am the biggest Linden fan but not now bro...Let a good thing be and stop attention seeking.

 

 

[tas]

looks 50, sounds 15. 

[Blue]

  He was one of the few that said the Canucks would be good. And he doubled down on it when challenged. 

[DSVII]

1 hour ago, Canuck You said:

I love this, Seems like as much good we can do there is always a excuse for something..And I am the biggest Linden fan but not now bro...Let a good thing be and stop attention seeking.

 

 

Don't think this warranted another thread as it was posted in the Linden thread OP. And even there the thought is its not Linden seeking attention more the local media being neurotic about having zero controversy this year.

[chaoticmonkey]

100% agree with him. It's all in the past and the right decision was made at the end. Why dredge it up now...

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

I only heard the first 4.5 minutes, and all I heard was media trying to stir shit up.  Not sure where his comprehension comes from, but it certainly smelled like it came from his ass.

 

Hockey insider?  Pffft.  Fuck off, you're just a wannabe.

[Barn Burner]

Who friggin' cares what these monkeys think? 

[Rounoush]

2 hours ago, tas said:

looks 50, sounds 15. 

I always say, "Hey, Frank! Have your balls dropped yet?"

[Nucker67]

Living in the Now. Canucks are rockin' and are one of the best teams in the NHL at all positions.

 

I don't care who decided on Pettersson or who didn't want him. It doesn't matter. This is Petey's 6th season as a Canuck and he's leading the fricken league. 

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by Nucker67

[Bob Long]

39 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

Living in the Now. Canucks are rockin' and are one of the best teams in the NHL at all positions.

 

I don't care who decided on Pettersson or who didn't want him. It doesn't matter. This is Petey's 6th season as a Canuck and he's leading the fricken league. 

 

 

 

blame must be assigned, or some cannot rest. 

 

[Haddy]

Wrong forum

Edited November 12, 2023 by Haddy

[Snoop Hogg]

As soon as I saw it was Sekeres & Price, I immediately knew not to watch.

[Guest]

All Linden was talking about was the process. He wasn't taking credit for the picks. He was just talking about empowering the scouts (which is what everyone wanted).

 

Nothing wrong in what Trevor said.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

2 hours ago, Nucks n Pucks said:

All Linden was talking about was the process. He wasn't taking credit for the picks. He was just talking about empowering the scouts (which is what everyone wanted).

 

Nothing wrong in what Trevor said.

 

Not if you listen to the podcasting jokers on the original post - to them, what Linden did was slaughter Benning's unborn baby, hamstring the team for the next 56 years, piss on all the players' cornflakes, and then lay a stiff turd at the team's home rink at centre ice.  All while giving the finger to fans.  

[Jeremy Hronek]

6 hours ago, Nucks n Pucks said:

All Linden was talking about was the process. He wasn't taking credit for the picks. He was just talking about empowering the scouts (which is what everyone wanted).

 

Nothing wrong in what Trevor said.

 

True but I also found Linden's indirect insinuation that "empowering the scouts was necessary since Benning had been incompetent up to that point," was unprofessional.  Lets look at Benning's drafting history.

 

2014:  Demko + Virtanen.   Demko has the approximate value of a 6OA while Virtanen (100 NHL points) is probably the equivalent of a 3rd round pick and so these guys cancel each other out to a large extent.

 

2015:  Boeser

 

2016:  FAIL (Juolevi)

 

2017:  Pettersson 

 

2018:  Hughes

 

2019:   Hoglander + Podkolzin (jury is still out on Podkolzin)

 

2020:  JT Miller

 

2021:  Connor Garland

 

I feel like Linden could have given a little more credit to Benning in this interview for the current product.  

 

Even if one wants to make the argument that Pettersson wasn't a Benning guy, there's still Demko, Boeser, Hughes, and Hoglander.........with Miller and Garland being direct results of our 2020 and 2021 1sts.  

 

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Elias Pettersson]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

True but I also found Linden's indirect insinuation that "empowering the scouts was necessary since Benning had been incompetent up to that point," was unprofessional.  Lets look at Benning's drafting history.

 

2014:  Demko + Virtanen.   Demko has the approximate value of a 6OA while Virtanen (100 NHL points) is probably the equivalent of a 3rd round pick and so these guys cancel each other out to a large extent.

 

2015:  Boeser

 

2016:  FAIL (Juolevi)

 

2017:  Pettersson 

 

2018:  Hughes

 

2019:   Hoglander + Podkolzin (jury is still out on Podkolzin)

 

2020:  JT Miller

 

2021:  Connor Garland

 

I feel like Linden could have given a little more credit to Benning in this interview for the current product.  

 

Even if one wants to make the argument that Pettersson wasn't a Benning guy, there's still Demko, Boeser, Hughes, and Hoglander.........with Miller and Garland being direct results of our 2020 and 2021 1sts.  

 

 

 

 

 

Linden said there was a failure with the 2016 draft and that he needed to correct it.  Which is what he did.  If you look at that 2016 draft it was literally the worst draft in franchise history.  Not just talking about Juolevi, it's the entire draft which I am sure Linden was talking about.  At some point, there needed to be accountability for such a shitty draft.  At least Linden was man enough to address it.  In terms of what he said about 2017, it was all true.  Benning had a hard on for Cody Glass.  Of course, he's going to deny it.  Uncle Jim will deny everything until his last breath...

 

2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	5	1	Olli Juolevi	D	London Knights [OHL]	41	2	1	3	6
2016 Entry	64	3	William Lockwood	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	35	0	1	1	11
2016 Entry	140	5	Cole Candella	D	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2016 Entry	154	6	Jakob Stukel	L	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2016 Entry	184	7	Rodrigo Abols	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2016 Entry	194	7	Brett McKenzie	L	North Bay Battalion [OHL]

[Elias Pettersson]

Seravalli wasn't even around when Linden was dominating the NHL.  He's a parasite like Drance.  These guys know nothing about hockey but pretend to in order to get followers on Twitter.  Not only was Linden a star in the NHL, but he was also the head of the Player's Association for a long time, sticking up for all of the players around the league.  Seravalli talks like Linden was a nobody and doesn't know the game.  This guy is a joke to be honest.  Not even sure how a loser like this became a hockey insider.  Who is stupid enough to give this guy insider information?

[Jeremy Hronek]

14 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Linden said there was a failure with the 2016 draft and that he needed to correct it.  Which is what he did.  If you look at that 2016 draft it was literally the worst draft in franchise history.  Not just talking about Juolevi, it's the entire draft which I am sure Linden was talking about.  At some point, there needed to be accountability for such a shitty draft.  At least Linden was man enough to address it.  In terms of what he said about 2017, it was all true.  Benning had a hard on for Cody Glass.  Of course, he's going to deny it.  Uncle Jim will deny everything until his last breath...

 

2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	5	1	Olli Juolevi	D	London Knights [OHL]	41	2	1	3	6
2016 Entry	64	3	William Lockwood	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	35	0	1	1	11
2016 Entry	140	5	Cole Candella	D	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2016 Entry	154	6	Jakob Stukel	L	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2016 Entry	184	7	Rodrigo Abols	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2016 Entry	194	7	Brett McKenzie	L	North Bay Battalion [OHL]

 

Agreed that 2016 was god awful but that doesn't negate the fact that Benning and his entourage had done fairly well in the previous two drafts with Demko, Boeser, and Jared McCann. Even if one (strains?) to argue that Benning didn't want Pettersson, he had plenty of wins in other years (Hughes, Hoglander, Demko, and Boeser).  The jury is still out on Podkolzin while JT Miller was a pretty big win for us.  

 

Benning may have liked Cody Glass but there is still no evidence out there to suggest that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson (other than the words of a few toxic media members - looks like you and I have similar views about Thomas Drance).  Even Linden himself doesn't say this.  Benning himself has gone on record stating that he loved Cale Makar (and some of the defensemen that weren't going to be there at #5.....and so I'm assuming Heiskanen here), but he never once said that Cody Glass was his guy.  It's media fabrication.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Elias Pettersson]

19 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Agreed that 2016 was god awful but that doesn't negate the fact that Benning and his entourage had done fairly well in the previous two drafts with Demko, Boeser, and Jared McCann. Even if one (strains?) to argue that Benning didn't want Pettersson, he had plenty of wins in other years (Hughes, Hoglander, Demko, and Boeser).  The jury is still out on Podkolzin while JT Miller was a pretty big win for us.  

 

Benning may have liked Cody Glass but there is still no evidence out there to suggest that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson (other than the words of a few toxic media members - looks like you and I have similar views about Thomas Drance).  Even Linden himself doesn't say this.  Benning himself has gone on record stating that he loved Cale Makar (and some of the defensemen that weren't going to be there at #5.....and so I'm assuming Heiskanen here), but he never once said that Cody Glass was his guy.  It's media fabrication.

 

Benning had zero influence on the 2014 draft, which is one of the better ones that we've had.  He was hired on May 23, 2014 and the draft was one month later.  That draft was run exclusively by the people who were already there for the whole year evaluating the talent, Benning basically just showed up for the draft in his suit and sat on his chair for 3 days...

 

Benning's first full draft was 2015.  Again, another pretty weak overall draft with only one real NHL player selected in Brock Boeser.  He got luck that Boeser fell, they were expecting him to go top 15...

 

2015 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2015 Entry	23	1	Brock Boeser	R	Waterloo Black Hawks [USHL]	411	150	177	327	112
2015 Entry	66	3	Guillaume Brisebois	D	Acadie-Bathurst Titan [QMJHL]	27	1	2	3	6
2015 Entry	114	4	Dmitry Zhukenov	C	Omsk Jrs. (Russia)
2015 Entry	144	5	Carl Neill	D	Sherbrooke Phoenix [QMJHL]
2015 Entry	149	5	Adam Gaudette	C	Cedar Rapids RoughRiders [USHL]	218	27	43	70	84
2015 Entry	174	6	Lukas Jasek	R	Trinec Ocelari HC [Czech]
2015 Entry	210	7	Tate Olson	D	Prince George Cougars [WHL]

[Jeremy Hronek]

11 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

That draft was run exclusively by the people who were already there for the whole year evaluating the talent, Benning basically just showed up for the draft in his suit and sat on his chair for 3 days...

 

 

 

Quote

Benning had zero influence on the 2014 draft, which is one of the better ones that we've had.  He was hired on May 23, 2014 and the draft was one month later. 

 

So basically what you're saying, is that prior to May 23 2014, Benning, as a member of the Boston Bruins scouting team, had absolutely zero information about the upcoming draft that was going to take place later that Summer in 2014?  (and had zero insights and input to give as a result?).  Interesting.....

 

Quote

He got luck that Boeser fell, they were expecting him to go top 15...

 

So it's just luck that Benning and his team were high on Boeser while the 22 GM's in front of him were not?

 

That's ridiculous and this incredibly biased take is a little disturbing.  

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

 

 

So basically what you're saying, is that prior to May 23 2014, Benning, as a member of the Boston Bruins scouting team, had absolutely zero information about the upcoming draft that was going to take place later that Summer in 2014?  (and had zero insights and input to give as a result?).  Interesting.....

 

 

So it's just luck that Benning and his team were high on Boeser while the 22 GM's in front of him were not?

 

That's ridiculous and this incredibly biased take is a little disturbing.  

 

So Benning was quietly doing his due diligence for the Canucks in terms of the draft while still being a part of the Boston Bruins?  I don't think it works that way my friend.  Do you know how much time and preparation scouts do in order to prepare for a draft?  You think the scouts are going to listen to a guy who just showed up 3 weeks before the draft to give his "input"?  Why would they do that?  The scouts pretty much already have their draft board all set up by the end of May.  They aren't going to change it regardless of any Benning input.

 

Lots of guys fall in a draft.  Regardless, if you take out Boeser the rest of the draft in 2015 was horrific.  Not to mention the fact that Benning traded away the 2nd round pick for Sven Baertschi, when he could have kept it and picked Rasmus Andersson instead.  That one pick would have turned a pretty horrendous draft into a great draft...

Edited November 12, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Jeremy Hronek]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

So Benning was quietly doing his due diligence for the Canucks in terms of the draft while still being a part of the Boston Bruins?  I don't think it works that way my friend.  Do you know how much time and preparation scouts do in order to prepare for a draft?  You think the scouts are going to listen to a guy who just showed up 3 weeks before the draft to give his "input"?  Why would they do that?  The scouts pretty much already have their draft board all set up by the end of May.  They aren't going to change it regardless of any Benning input.

 

Lots of guys fall in a draft.  Regardless, if you take out Boeser the rest of the draft in 2015 was horrific.  Not to mention the fact that Benning traded away the 2nd round pick for Sven Baertschi, when he could have kept it and picked Rasmus Andersson instead.  That one pick would have turned a pretty horrendous draft into a great draft...

 

No, Benning was "quietly" doing this due diligence as a scout for the Boston Bruins (i.e. having scouted numerous prospects throughout that entire year).  He then brought that knowledge with him after being named the GM of the Canucks and collaborated with the Canucks' scouting staff.  I feel like you already know this but are deliberately being obtuse here in an effort to prove some kind of point.  You're better than this EP, I've been reading your posts for awhile now.  You're a good poster but you're way out to lunch here.

 

Yes, lots of guys fall in a draft and the smart GM's pick these guys up.......as Benning did.  ?????

 

You've mentioned several times as to how such and such draft was horrific but the truth of the matter is that NHL teams are considered to have had a successful draft if just ONE guy from a particular draft becomes a long term core player on said team.  Yes, sometimes a team is lucky enough to draft two long term core players in one draft but more times than not, this doesn't happen.  The Dallas Stars have recently done exceptionally well but this is far from being the norm.  Most successful teams have a handful of players that are drafted and developed by said team the other 50-65% are either traded for or signed via UFA.  

 

As far as Andersson/Baertschi goes, the Canucks had almost nothing in that 20-23 age range at the time (i.e. guys that should have been replacing the old guard).  Hence, Benning tried to rectify this situation with the hope being that if some of these reclamation projects could pan out with more opportunity, the Canucks could move guys like Bieksa, Higgins, Hansen, Burrows, for more picks and prospects (Bieksa was moved for a 2nd, Hansen for Goldobin, Burrows for Dahlen, Higgins was replaced by Baertschi).  

Edited November 12, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

No, Benning was "quietly" doing this due diligence as a scout for the Boston Bruins (i.e. having scouted numerous prospects throughout that entire year).  He then brought that knowledge with him after being named the GM of the Canucks and collaborated with the Canucks' scouting staff.  I feel like you already know this but are deliberately being obtuse here in an effort to prove some kind of point.  You're better than this EP, I've been reading your posts for awhile now.  You're a good poster but you're way out to lunch here.

 

Yes, lots of guys fall in a draft and the smart GM's pick these guys up.......as Benning did.  ?????

 

You've mentioned several times as to how such and such draft was horrific but the truth of the matter is that NHL teams are considered to have had a successful draft if just ONE guy from a particular draft becomes a long term core player on said team.  Yes, sometimes a team is lucky enough to draft two long term core players in one draft but more times than not, this doesn't happen.  The Dallas Stars have recently done exceptionally well but this is far from being the norm.  Most successful teams have a handful of players that are drafted and developed by said team the other 50-65% are either traded for or signed via UFA.  

 

As far as Andersson/Baertschi goes, the Canucks had almost nothing in that 20-23 age range at the time (i.e. guys that should have been replacing the old guard).  Hence, Benning tried to rectify this situation with the hope being that if some of these reclamation projects could pan out with more opportunity, the Canucks could move guys like Bieksa, Higgins, Hansen, Burrows, for more picks and prospects (Bieksa was moved for a 2nd, Hansen for Goldobin, Burrows for Dahlen, Higgins was replaced by Baertschi).  

 

Benning was terrible at developing his own players.  Only Demko seemed to survive the AHL and make it to the NHL.  The jury is still out on Podkolzin and Hoglander, but they are now being developed under Allvin's team, so there is hope.

 

I don't think you and alot of other people truly realize the amount of work Jim Rutherford had to do when he arrived.  He literally had to change the entire structure of the organization from top to bottom.  Benning left this organization in a complete mess.  The NHL team was a mess, the AHL team was a mess, the scouting department was a mess, the front office was a mess.  Everything had to be fixed from the ground up.  

 

At the end of the day, Benning made moves to try and simply save his job, he wasn't looking out for the long term interests of this club.  I've seen many GM's come and go over the last 40+ years.  Benning was one of the worst we've ever had.  He was a good amateur scout, which is what he should have been hired for.  But he didn't have a clue in how to run an organization.

 

If people want to learn what it means to take an organization from rock bottom and to turn it into a Stanley Cup contender within 7 years, then I would advise doing the research on Pat Quinn.  He literally started with less then Benning.  He had no carry over of a Stanley Cup finalist team to at least use as collateral in trades.  He had nothing.  But within a few years, he had everything.  A top goaltender, a big and tough defence that could move the puck, a couple superstars up front along with a great assortment of talented complimentary forwards.  And of course a great coach in Quinn himself.  That team started from nothing, but within just a few short years we had everything we needed to try and win a cup through some great drafting and some great trades as well.  

 

Brian Burke also did a great job in building a contender.  He learned alot from Pat Quinn.  And Dave Nonis learned alot from Brian Burke.  Mike Gillis took over and took an already good team and made it great.  He threw away alot of picks but in the end he almost won it all, so it was almost worth it.  With Jim Benning, what exactly did he accomplish?  Throwing away picks every year, terrible trades, terrible free agent signings.  At the end of the day, we were in worse shape when he left than when he arrived.  How is that possible after 7 whole years on the job?

 

His scouts left us some great players to build this franchise on, so we thank him for that.  

[AK-19]

14 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

 

 

So basically what you're saying, is that prior to May 23 2014, Benning, as a member of the Boston Bruins scouting team, had absolutely zero information about the upcoming draft that was going to take place later that Summer in 2014?  (and had zero insights and input to give as a result?).  Interesting.....

 

 

So it's just luck that Benning and his team were high on Boeser while the 22 GM's in front of him were not?

 

That's ridiculous and this incredibly biased take is a little disturbing.  

 

I don't have the source anymore since it was so long ago but the Bruins knew Benning was leaving that season and kept him intentionally out of scouting for the draft. Also, part of the agreement for allowing Benning to leave (I believe he was still under contract with the Bruins) was that he would stay out of the 2014 draft. 

[AK-19]

15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Linden said there was a failure with the 2016 draft and that he needed to correct it.  Which is what he did.  If you look at that 2016 draft it was literally the worst draft in franchise history.  Not just talking about Juolevi, it's the entire draft which I am sure Linden was talking about.  At some point, there needed to be accountability for such a shitty draft.  At least Linden was man enough to address it.  In terms of what he said about 2017, it was all true.  Benning had a hard on for Cody Glass.  Of course, he's going to deny it.  Uncle Jim will deny everything until his last breath...

 

2016 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2016 Entry	5	1	Olli Juolevi	D	London Knights [OHL]	41	2	1	3	6
2016 Entry	64	3	William Lockwood	R	U.S. National Development Team [USHL]	35	0	1	1	11
2016 Entry	140	5	Cole Candella	D	Hamilton Bulldogs [OHL]
2016 Entry	154	6	Jakob Stukel	L	Calgary Hitmen [WHL]
2016 Entry	184	7	Rodrigo Abols	C	Portland Winterhawks [WHL]
2016 Entry	194	7	Brett McKenzie	L	North Bay Battalion [OHL]

 

You should check out the 2007 draft with Nonis. 0 NHL games played, literally couldn't do worse:

 

2007 Entry
Draft	Num.	Round	Player	Pos	Drafted From	GP	G	A	Pts	PIM
2007 Entry	25	1	Patrick White	C	Tri-City Storm [USHL]
2007 Entry	33	2	Taylor Ellington	D	Everett Silvertips [WHL]
2007 Entry	145	5	Charles-Antoine Messier	C	Baie-Comeau Drakkar [QMJHL]
2007 Entry	146	5	Ilya Kablukov	W	CSKA Moscow [Russia]
2007 Entry	176	6	Taylor Matson	C	Des Moines Buccaneers [USHL]
2007 Entry	206	7	Dan Gendur	C	Everett Silvertips [WHL]