Ilunga

I stated, I treat people as I would like to be treated. Not how they would like to be treated. I will treat people the way they like to be treated if they don't fuck with others. Hamas' has not, and does not treat the Isrealis, the way they wish to be treated, they fuck with them, so I say fuck them. Israel has not, and is not treating Palestinians the way they wish to be treated, they fuck with them, so I say fuck them. If a person's beliefs, in this case religious beliefs, are impacting others in a negative manner, damaging or limiting them as you put it, as they are in this case, then I have the right to tell them, fuck their beliefs. Fuck those " sacred " sites that have been the cause of so much human suffering. And they " export " their suffering to other parts of the world. My mum and dad were very religious. Not only did they not fuck with others, they helped others. I to find great comfort going to their grave every few months, putting fresh flowers on it and having a chat. One can describe that experience in any way they wish. It is a very personal experience. One that doesn't involve fucking with others. Christmas is a festival the Christians appropriated from the Romans. It was a festival called Saturnalia. It was first celebrated on December 17, and then was extended to 3, then 7 days. It made conversion to Christianity easier. Sadly I have been to a few funerals in the last year or so. If you call finger food traditional Aussie funeral food, then that is what we were served. Again, what has any of this have to do with those " sacred " sites in Jerusalem. And peoples willingness, not only kill for them, but also kill in their name ? Again I say human life is sacred. I say we should view the planet, and the flora and fauna we share this planet with as precious things. We are trashing the planet we live on. Our actions are causing an global extinction rate that been labelled as unparalleled, and people are fighting over some buildings ? While not exactly pertinent, this Cree proverb fits my narrative " When the last tree is cut down, the last fish caught, the last river poisoned, only then will we realise that we can't eat money "

As you know, I am agnostic. I have defended religious people in the god thread. I call some really good people my friends. The best people I have ever known were religious. My parents. For putting up with me alone they deserve " saint hood "

A person has the right to tell people what they to do with their beliefs, once those beliefs start impacting others in a negative manner. Apart from that as I have always stated, I will defend your right to do whatever you want, whenever you want. So long as you don't fuck with others in the process. Be a furry, a pagan, an athiest, religious whatever. Just don't fuck with others.

I wish we applied that same sense of " sanctity " we apply to these supposedly holy/sacred sites, to the planet we live on.

Maybe they should have talked to the actual scientific institutions, people from Johns Hopkins and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. " The Science is clear: Over 30,000 people have died in Gaza " https://time.com/6909636/gaza-death-toll/ " Actually the next numbers are conservative. The science is extremely clear. " In December the medial journal, The Lancet critiques of the death surveillance process done by extremely experienced scholars at Johns Hopkins and the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine. Both concluded that the Gazan numbers were plausible and credible, albeit by different techniques and logic. " The article then goes on to explain those techniques. Cut to the chase " Their are certain building blocks of society that require agreement for us to work well collectively. Society is weaker and discourse less productive if we cannot agree on at least a few basic things. In the case of Gaza, acknowledging that there was an appalling and I extremely deadly attack on October 7th, and that over 30,000 Gazans have died since, mostly women and children, seems like the most basic cornerstones of reality on which to move toward constructive discussion and resolution. " The medical journal, The Lancet, the information from which that article was based on. https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-lancet/ Factual reporting Very High Pro Science These sources consist of legitimate science or are evidence based through the use of credible scientific sourcing. Legitimate follows the scientific method, is unbiased and does not use emotional words. Bias Rating Pro Science Factual Reporting Very High MBFC CREDIBILITY RATING High Credibility Here is that Lancet article. " No evidence of inflated mortality reporting from the Gaza ministry of health " https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140-6736(23)02713-7/fulltext So let's look at this closer shall we. Why has the UN revised it numbers. https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/gaza-women-children-death-toll-1.7203167 " There's another 10,000 plus bodies that still have to be identified " Haq told reporters in New York on Monday, " and so then the details of those - which of those are children - which of those are women - that will be re- established once the full indentification process is complete. " " Unites Nations trans in Gaza are unable to independently verify these figures, given the prevailing situation on the ground and the sheer number of the fatalities " Erik Kaneko, an OCHA Spokesperson said in an email to CBC News. She confirmed that the state of many of the bodies makes it difficult to identify them. " And then we have the from 2 hours ago " UN Denies Death Toll of Women and Children has Been Revised Down " https://www.theguardian.com/world/article/2024/may/13/gaza-ministry-revises-figures-for-women-and-children-killed

You bet I can tell people that their beliefs suck, if acting on behalf of their beliefs impacts others in a negative manner. That's why we all condemn Hamas'. They are using violence in the name of their beliefs. That's why some of us condemn Israeli settlers, they use violence in the name of their beliefs. Also taking land that belongs to someone else in the name of their beliefs. As for these " sacred " sites in Jerusalem. The sheer amount of human suffering that has been caused in their name over the Millennia gives me the right, to voice my " belief ", that the sanctity of human life outweighs the sanctity of those supposed " sacred " sites. You have failed to grasp the meaning of Black Elk's words, especially when one considers them in the context of the American first nations people. Did you note he was their spiritual leader ? He was not their religious leader, first nations people did not have religion. Their " sacred " sites were the mountains, the plains, the natural world. They not only had a spiritual connection with the earth, they had a spiritual connection with the flora and fauna they shared the earth with. Do you ever wonder why places like Australia and North America were pristine environments when the British and Europeans first came to these places ? It was because of the spiritual connection first nations people had with the land, and the flora and fauna. And before you state that the Israelis and the Palestinians have a spiritual connection to Israel/Palestine, they don't. They have a religious/ historical connection. Religion and spirituality are totally different things. So yes I do believe that Black Elk's words are truly wise. That all land/ nature is precious. That all the species of flora and fauna play a distinct role, the bio diversity of our planet. As I have stated before, more wise words from a first nations elder " We don't inherit the earth, we borrow it from our children " Chief Seattle

Again, what's more important, human life, buildings, or a wall ? And I am a believer that we should maintain to the best of our ability historical sites, buildings/artifacts. However when those sites, buildings and artifacts cause so much Bullshit. Do you realise how many people have been killed fighting over these " sacred " sites over the last 2500 hundred years ? You can shove those " sacred " sites where the sun don't shine. They have been the cause of so much pain and suffering. If those " sacred " sites didn't exist, maybe this shit wouldn't be happening in regards to Jerusalem. I have this great idea in regards to people having something to believe in. Believe that we are all brothers and sisters under the sun. That all the species we share this planet with have a purpose in the scheme of things. As Black Elk, the Oglala Sioux spiritual leader stated " The holy land is everywhere "

Again, what does any of this have to do with the Palestinians, with support from the majority of the international community, wanting east Jerusalem as a capital for a future Palestinian state ? This is considered the best option for a peaceful solution to this never ending conflict. You either agree with this, or you don't. From memory you stated something along the lines of an open city. All these so called " sacred" sites. What's more sacred, human life ? Or building/s ?

I am well aware of the history of Jerusalem. As I have already posted, it has been captured and recaptured 53 times, attacked 44 times, besieged 22 times and destroyed twice What has any of this have to do with both the Palestinians and the international community wanting the Palestinians to have east Jerusalem as their capital of a future Palestinian state ? Unless you believe what Scotty from the Marketing tell you. You know that religious nutjob who was our last PM. The guy that recognised West Jerusalem as Israel's capital. The guy that believes the " seven mountains mandate ". " The seven mountains mandate is a global Pentecostal movement intent on taking over the pillars of society, notably including governments and defence forces, to bring on Judgement day, so Christ can return. " https://independentaustralia.net/politics/politics-display/morrison-courts-pentecostal-world-domination,16582 Thankfully the Albanese government has reversed Scotty's decision.

You are providing solutions. Practical solutions. I want to believe others are receptive to your idea's. Again, what are people's priorities ? Revenge or peace ?

First off, I am really sorry to hear about your nevvy. That's really fucked up. I hope the kids who assaulted him have been held to account for their actions. Secondly, I have no outrage against the Israeli/Jewish people. I have no rage at all for the human suffering both Israeli's and Palestinians have endured for decades. What's the point of rage ? Who has " raged " against the Isrealis/Jews in this thread ? I have empathy for both groups of people. I am saddened by event's before October 7, horrified by the events on October 7, and since then. Look at the place where the people who have rage/anger, have brought the Isreali/Palestinian people.

As I have stated before brother. You are one of, if not the most " balanced " poster in this thread.

In this article about his book he states https://www.npr.org/2010/03/31/125211864/from-son-of-hamas-to-agent-of-shin-bet " I was tortured by the Isrealis in one of the most scary interrogation facilities you can imagine, and I was held there for three months. " " It opened big questions in my mind, questioning if Isreal is really our enemies. I believe at the time and I still believe that occupation is a problem. Every nation has the right to establish and decide their destiny. But we had enemies more and dangerous than Israel and those enemies lived within us. " Now I totally agree with him that Hamas is an enemy of the Palestinian people. I also have no doubt that they have murdered/killed innocent Palestinians. They have no regard at all for the Palestinian people and they truly are a terrorist organisation. I believe sources/ information I can trust. The online Encyclopaedia Britianica is one of the most trustworthy sources there is. https://www.britannica.com/topic/Hamas "Hamas, militant nationalist and islamist movement in the west bank and Gaza strip that is dedicated to the establishment of independent Islamic State in historical " Palestine. Now I a certain you are aware the difference between a nationalism movement, and a global/international movement. And why I bring up US and Western interventionism in the middle east is to illustrate that it is us that have gone over there and fucked with them. As opposed to Arab countries, no matter what a few nutjob state, them fucking with us.

I have asked Roman several times to state what his beliefs are in regards to a Palestinian state, he has refused to answer. He has also used a mythical religious text as the basis for his claim that Isreal " owns " Jerusalem. So on the basis of this, one can only presume that Roman does deny the right of the Palestinians to have a state of their own. So yes there is someone in this thread that denies the Palestinians a state of their own. As I stated I returned to this thread after weeks away due to the human suffering that is happening in Gaza. And guess what, the majority of the world agrees with me. More and more countries are coming out and criticising Isreal for the actions in Gaza, including their best friend the US, who took the unprecedented step of freezing arms shipments to Israel. If I seem to be fighting with everyone in this thread as you state, what I am actually doing is advocating for the rights of innocent civilians, especially the women and children. These people are starving. Their schools have been destroyed. This is why the majority of the world has had enough. And this was reflected in the UN vote a few days ago in regards to to Palestinian membership of the UN. 143 nations voted in favour of this. I am glad the society I live in actually had the courage to vote. Me " fighting " with everyone seems to evidence of the fact that people don't believe what I do. That human life is sacred. That women and children should be protected at all costs. There is never an excuse for killing them. And for causing for over a million more to face starvation. I post articles about forgiveness and peace. If Jesus was a real person and he was alive now, what do you think he would " say " in regards to this. We'rent we taught he preached forgiveness and peace brother ?

The Authors are Colin P. Clarke, who is a director of research at the Soufan Group, an intelligence and consulting firm in New York City, and author of, After The Caliphate: The Islamic State And The Future Terrorist Diaspora. Michael Kenney, who is the director of the Michael B. Ridgeway center and professor of international affairs at the University of Pittsburgh. He conducts research on terrorism, political violence and high risk activism. Media Bias assessment for my source, Politico https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/politico/ Factual reporting High Overall we rate Politico Left-Centre biased based on story selections and editorial positions that slightly favour the left. We also rate them high for factual reporting due to proper sourcing and a clean fact check record. MBFC Credibility Rating High Credibility Now your source MEMRI ( Middle East Media Research Institute ) https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/middle-east-media-research-institute-memri/ Factual reporting Mixed Questionable Source A Questionable source exhibits one or more of the following, extreme bias, consistent promotion of propaganda/conspiracies, poor or no sourcing to credible information, a complete lack of transparency and or is fake news. Overall we rate MEMRI as a questionable source based on the promotion of Isreali propaganda, poor sourcing and few failed fact checks. MBFC Credibility Rating Low Credibility Now even if we want to believe that BS rhetoric by a couple of nut jobs clerics who also talked about when " Islam ruled the world " If we are going to believe that those few clerics speak for all Hamas', do we believe that nutjobs like Smotrich and Ben Gvir speak for all the Knesset ? As I have stated many many times, there are nutjobs on both sides. They are religious nutjobs.