The Law And Police in Canada-

[bishopshodan]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Sounds like its moving along nicely. How's the commute?

15min

[The Arrogant Worms]

40 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Had to go back and get vulnerable sectors check after doing the crimnal check last week. Think I should have had paperwork done for both the first time so I wouldn't have had to go back.

 

 

It was a bit of fun. Tough old RCMP guy that was cool to be chatting with.

 

 

I had many relatives in the police force in Sask.  One Uncle was a staff Sgt with the RCMP.....anther Uncle was on the police force and later became the  Police Chief....and his son worked in the police force in Regina and then taught at the police academy there....then moved up to management.

Edited November 23, 2023 by The Arrogant Worms

[bishopshodan]

Good news for Vancouver.

 

Heading in the right direction.

Unprovoked stranger attacks down 77% since pandemic, Vancouver police say

https://globalnews.ca/news/10112549/vancouver-stranger-attacks-down/#:~:text=Vancouver police say there has,were down 77 per cent.

[Gurn]

18 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Good news for Vancouver.

 

Heading in the right direction.

Unprovoked stranger attacks down 77% since pandemic, Vancouver police say

https://globalnews.ca/news/10112549/vancouver-stranger-attacks-down/#:~:text=Vancouver police say there has,were down 77 per cent.

Probably because people are  not smacking random Asian folk right now.

No more "Chinese Flu" talk, resulting in a drop in violence-go figure.

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/umar-zameer-found-not-guilty-of-murder-in-toronto-cop-s-death/ar-AA1nosu9?bncnt=BroadcastNews_BreakingNews&ocid=UCPNC2&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=a952817f12244a31bd4c8495bd3a08c3&ei=8

"

Jurors have found Umar Zameer not guilty of all criminal charges, including first-degree murder, in the death of Toronto police officer Det.-Const. Jeffrey Northrup nearly three years ago. 

Zameer had pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, after he ran over Northrup with his car in an underground parking garage beneath Toronto City Hall on July 2, 2021. Both Northrup and his partner were in plain clothes, investigating a stabbing that night. 

The verdict means the Crown did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zameer intended to kill Northrup, as is required for both a first-degree and lesser second-degree murder conviction.

After the verdict was read, the judge apologized to Zameer for everything he has been through during the last three years.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Leaves me wondering if judges apologize every time someone's found not guilty, or if this case was so wrong, to press in the first place?

 

Edit- and 30 seconds later- a better story, with more detail appears on da web:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/umar-zameer-found-not-guilty-of-murder-in-toronto-cop-s-death/ar-AA1nosu9?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=ee54a259df5c47c19ce1797d6bae67f6&ei=12

"

The jury also found Zameer not guilty of manslaughter caused by dangerous driving. For a manslaughter conviction, a person must be found guilty of committing an unlawful act that caused death, without having the intent to kill. 

Jury deliberations began Thursday evening, after a five-week trial during which Zameer testified that he didn't know Northrup and his partner were police, instead thinking his family was being ambushed by criminals. 

Officers' testimony contradicted by experts during trial

The two officers approached his car in the parking garage around midnight, where Zameer was with his eight-months pregnant wife and two-year-old son. The young family was preparing to return to their Vaughan, Ont., home after celebrating Canada Day downtown. 

Zameer said neither Northrup nor his partner – Sgt. Lisa Forbes – identified themselves as police that night. He said the pair began banging on his car after he locked the doors. 

When Zameer tried to drive forward out of the parking space, he was blocked by an unmarked police van. He then reversed out of the spot at an accelerated speed and drove forward to exit the parking garage. 

During the trial, two crash reconstructionist experts called by the defence and the Crown agreed Northrup was knocked down when Zameer reversed out of the parking spot. 

The 31-year veteran of the Toronto Police Service was already on the ground in the laneway of the car when he was run over, the experts said. 

However, three police officers testified that Northrup was standing in the laneway with his hands up when he was run over.

Judge questioned Crown's 'morphing' theory 

Several times during the trial, the presiding judge questioned the Crown's changing theory about what happened on July 2, 2021, at one point saying she didn't see how the jury could convict Zameer of even the lesser second-degree murder charge. 

During legal arguments not heard by the jury, Ontario Superior Court Justice Anne Molloy repeatedly raised concerns about the prosecution's changing narrative about where and how Northrup was struck. 

---------------------------------

MAL

 

Looks like a bad prosecution, with changing theories on multiple occasions- and contradictory to both video and expert 'witness' crash reconstruction.

Edited April 21 by Gurn

[Bob Long]

On 11/24/2023 at 8:42 AM, Gurn said:

Probably because people are  not smacking random Asian folk right now.

No more "Chinese Flu" talk, resulting in a drop in violence-go figure.

 

oh but don't point that out, you'll be unfairly labelling people 

[Gurn]

Follow up on the Zameer murder trial acquittal----- seems a few politicians were saying some misleading things,  and poor decisions were made

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/why-was-umar-zameer-tried-for-murder-observers-raise-questions-about-prosecution/ar-AA1nsGNA?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=6ae77c8882f649aaa2a68e3b83a22079&ei=40

"TORONTO — Legal observers are questioning the decision to charge and prosecute a man for murder in the death of a Toronto police officer when the evidence did not support it, saying the case raises concerns about fair process in the justice system.

------

 

Alison Craig, a defence lawyer based in Toronto, said that while it was likely not the sole decision of the trial prosecutors to pursue a murder charge, the case would "likely have proceeded very differently" had the deceased not been a police officer.

"I'm sure there was a whole lot of pressure in light of the fact that he was a police officer. It shouldn't have been treated any differently, I don't think, but I think it quite obviously was," she said. That raises concerns of a two-tier justice system, she said.

There should be an inquiry to investigate why the case was prosecuted as a murder when the evidence from the Crown's own expert contradicted that narrative, she said.

---------

The Crown has to believe there's a reasonable prospectof conviction before putting someone on trial, but "they might as well have conceded that they never went through that process of determining whether there was a reasonable prospect of conviction," said Reid Rusonik, a Toronto defence lawyer.

Rusonik said he was worried police couldn't "get past the notion that somebody has to pay for an officer losing his life," and chose to make it an antagonistic situation rather than a learning experience and a collective expression of grief. 

"It could have literally happened to anyone. It's just a tragedy. It was an accident ... We could have all been in that underground parking garage that night, any one of us, and the exact same thing would have happened to us," he said.

--------------

Daniel Brown, a defence lawyer and former president of the Criminal Lawyers' Association, said no one disputes that deliberately killing a police officer should carry more significant consequences, "but this is a case where they're trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole." 

Prosecutors had the evidence for years and were aware of its limitations, he said. 

"They're trying to turn something that isn't a murder into a murder,” he said. 

The case appeared to be a "political prosecution," he added, noting several politicians – including Ontario Premier Doug Ford – publicly condemned Zameer before the case even went to trial.

"It created a false narrative about what happened in this case," Brown said. "The premier of Ontario was putting his thumb on the scales of justice and infecting the public's views about how they should view this man."

When Zameer was released on bail in the fall of 2021, Ford expressed his disapproval on X, formerly known as Twitter, calling the decision "completely unacceptable." He initially described Zameer as "the person responsible for this heinous crime," but later changed it to "the person charged."

Then-Toronto mayor John Tory and Brampton's mayor also denounced the decision.

------------------------

more at link.

 

[Gurn]

"Daniel Brown, a defence lawyer and former president of the Criminal Lawyers' Association, said no one disputes that deliberately killing a police officer should carry more significant consequences, "but this is a case where they're trying to squeeze a square peg into a round hole." "

 

Daniel Brown is wrong - I definitely dispute that a police officer's life has anymore meaning/value than anyone else's.

[Sharpshooter]

On 4/21/2024 at 10:32 AM, Gurn said:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/umar-zameer-found-not-guilty-of-murder-in-toronto-cop-s-death/ar-AA1nosu9?bncnt=BroadcastNews_BreakingNews&ocid=UCPNC2&FORM=BNC001&pc=U531&cvid=a952817f12244a31bd4c8495bd3a08c3&ei=8

"

Jurors have found Umar Zameer not guilty of all criminal charges, including first-degree murder, in the death of Toronto police officer Det.-Const. Jeffrey Northrup nearly three years ago. 

Zameer had pleaded not guilty to first-degree murder, after he ran over Northrup with his car in an underground parking garage beneath Toronto City Hall on July 2, 2021. Both Northrup and his partner were in plain clothes, investigating a stabbing that night. 

The verdict means the Crown did not prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Zameer intended to kill Northrup, as is required for both a first-degree and lesser second-degree murder conviction.

After the verdict was read, the judge apologized to Zameer for everything he has been through during the last three years.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Leaves me wondering if judges apologize every time someone's found not guilty, or if this case was so wrong, to press in the first place?

 

Edit- and 30 seconds later- a better story, with more detail appears on da web:

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/umar-zameer-found-not-guilty-of-murder-in-toronto-cop-s-death/ar-AA1nosu9?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=ee54a259df5c47c19ce1797d6bae67f6&ei=12

"

The jury also found Zameer not guilty of manslaughter caused by dangerous driving. For a manslaughter conviction, a person must be found guilty of committing an unlawful act that caused death, without having the intent to kill. 

Jury deliberations began Thursday evening, after a five-week trial during which Zameer testified that he didn't know Northrup and his partner were police, instead thinking his family was being ambushed by criminals. 

Officers' testimony contradicted by experts during trial

The two officers approached his car in the parking garage around midnight, where Zameer was with his eight-months pregnant wife and two-year-old son. The young family was preparing to return to their Vaughan, Ont., home after celebrating Canada Day downtown. 

Zameer said neither Northrup nor his partner – Sgt. Lisa Forbes – identified themselves as police that night. He said the pair began banging on his car after he locked the doors. 

When Zameer tried to drive forward out of the parking space, he was blocked by an unmarked police van. He then reversed out of the spot at an accelerated speed and drove forward to exit the parking garage. 

During the trial, two crash reconstructionist experts called by the defence and the Crown agreed Northrup was knocked down when Zameer reversed out of the parking spot. 

The 31-year veteran of the Toronto Police Service was already on the ground in the laneway of the car when he was run over, the experts said. 

However, three police officers testified that Northrup was standing in the laneway with his hands up when he was run over.

Judge questioned Crown's 'morphing' theory 

Several times during the trial, the presiding judge questioned the Crown's changing theory about what happened on July 2, 2021, at one point saying she didn't see how the jury could convict Zameer of even the lesser second-degree murder charge. 

During legal arguments not heard by the jury, Ontario Superior Court Justice Anne Molloy repeatedly raised concerns about the prosecution's changing narrative about where and how Northrup was struck. 

---------------------------------

MAL

 

Looks like a bad prosecution, with changing theories on multiple occasions- and contradictory to both video and expert 'witness' crash reconstruction.

The Accused is certainly guilty of something. The problem is that the ‘reason’ wasn’t established properly before the Bench. 
 

That’s on the Prosecutors. 
 

Miscarriage of Justice due to incompetence.

 

However, there’s still legal recourse because of who was killed. 

[Sharpshooter]

On 11/24/2023 at 8:22 AM, bishopshodan said:

Good news for Vancouver.

 

Heading in the right direction.

Unprovoked stranger attacks down 77% since pandemic, Vancouver police say

https://globalnews.ca/news/10112549/vancouver-stranger-attacks-down/#:~:text=Vancouver police say there has,were down 77 per cent.

It would go down even more if all the Crackies got polluted fentanyl. 
 

Go to Hastings and Main, get drugs, die. 
 

I don’t care anymore.

 

 

[bishopshodan]

16 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

It would go down even more if all the Crackies got polluted fentanyl. 
 

Go to Hastings and Main, get drugs, die. 
 

I don’t care anymore.

 

'The quality of mercy is not strain’d,
It droppeth as the gentle rain from heaven'

 

Oregon just rolled back their decriminalized for small amounts of illicit drugs. I can see BC doing the same soon.

Whatever measures they try I feel that law enforcement needs to be boosted. We dont have enough boots on the ground, as they say.

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/canada/b-c-prosecutors-decline-to-lay-charges-against-mounties-who-shot-jared-lowndes/ar-AA1nxBv2?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=8dbf70260c18499aad8296047b074d1b&ei=116

"The British Columbia Prosecution Service says it has decided not to lay charges against three Mounties involved in the July 2021 shooting death of Jared Lowndes in Campbell River. 

The service says in a statement released Tuesday that the "available evidence" wouldn't suffice to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the three Campbell River RCMP officers "committed any offence" related to the 38-year-old man's death. "

 

The service says in a statement released Tuesday that the "available evidence" wouldn't suffice to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the three Campbell River RCMP officers "committed any offence" related to the 38-year-old man's death. 

The service's overview of the case says an officer had stopped to look into a suspicious car that was parked near the city, and a query of the vehicle's licence plate turned up Lowndes's name and an outstanding arrest warrant. 

The statement says Lowndes took off when the officer approached, then reversed his vehicle into the police car. 

It says officers found the man at a Campbell River drive-thru, where he shot bear spray at them, he then stabbed the police dog they sent after him, which died of its injuries. 

Lowndes was shot twice in the back and died at the scene, and though B.C.'s Independent Investigations Office had suggested the service may want to consider manslaughter charges against one officer and assault charges against the others, the prosecution service says it would be unable to prove the force used was unreasonable or disproportionate.

 

[Optimist Prime]

On 4/22/2024 at 2:31 PM, Sharpshooter said:

It would go down even more if all the Crackies got polluted fentanyl. 
 

Go to Hastings and Main, get drugs, die. 
 

I don’t care anymore.

 

 

My nephew disappear3d on his baby momma and kids for 3 years, my half sister thought he was dead. 

Turns out he was chasing the dragon on hastings. I have no idea what or who got him to wake the fuck up, but happy to report he is almost 3 years out of homeless addiction. 

 

Having said that, I still agree with you. The harm to communities and families who can't afford to get away from these areas is too great to continue to turn a blind eye to homeless addiction. 

 

I don't know the answer, but I can see plain as day what isn't working. I don't have much compassion for the homeless addicts, I think they are a blight on our communities, and frankly, I wouldn't use a narcan kit on an OD. I think it is cruel to resuscitate someone experiencing homeless addiction dozens of times, as is the case A LOT of the time. It isn't a popular opinion, but I liken it to waterboarding in Gitmo. Cruel and unusual punishment to force an overdosing addict to live to OD again. The only way to ensure a defense to homeless addiction is to never shoot up in the first place. It is just Russian roulette at this point.

 

I think the federal experiment on not charging for personal amounts has at least shown that that idea is dumb as fuck. My home town has a crater in it now where 7 businesses used to be and even a thrift store was burned to the ground around a methadone clinic that is 1 block away from 3 different schools.  

 

We need to give some teeth to the idea of helping. Lock them up in a treatment facility at the very least, but free range junkies is not a solution.

[Bob Long]

8 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

My nephew disappear3d on his baby momma and kids for 3 years, my half sister thought he was dead. 

Turns out he was chasing the dragon on hastings. I have no idea what or who got him to wake the fuck up, but happy to report he is almost 3 years out of homeless addiction. 

 

Having said that, I still agree with you. The harm to communities and families who can't afford to get away from these areas is too great to continue to turn a blind eye to homeless addiction. 

 

I don't know the answer, but I can see plain as day what isn't working. I don't have much compassion for the homeless addicts, I think they are a blight on our communities, and frankly, I wouldn't use a narcan kit on an OD. I think it is cruel to resuscitate someone experiencing homeless addiction dozens of times, as is the case A LOT of the time. It isn't a popular opinion, but I liken it to waterboarding in Gitmo. Cruel and unusual punishment to force an overdosing addict to live to OD again. The only way to ensure a defense to homeless addiction is to never shoot up in the first place. It is just Russian roulette at this point.

 

I think the federal experiment on not charging for personal amounts has at least shown that that idea is dumb as fuck. My home town has a crater in it now where 7 businesses used to be and even a thrift store was burned to the ground around a methadone clinic that is 1 block away from 3 different schools.  

 

We need to give some teeth to the idea of helping. Lock them up in a treatment facility at the very least, but free range junkies is not a solution.

 

The part i can't understand is why we don't pick people off the street and take them somewhere to get help. Addicts reach a point where they can no longer make rational decisions. Shouldn't that be enough to just get them off the street and into a program? 

[Boudrias]

9 hours ago, Optimist Prime said:

My nephew disappear3d on his baby momma and kids for 3 years, my half sister thought he was dead. 

Turns out he was chasing the dragon on hastings. I have no idea what or who got him to wake the fuck up, but happy to report he is almost 3 years out of homeless addiction. 

 

Having said that, I still agree with you. The harm to communities and families who can't afford to get away from these areas is too great to continue to turn a blind eye to homeless addiction. 

 

I don't know the answer, but I can see plain as day what isn't working. I don't have much compassion for the homeless addicts, I think they are a blight on our communities, and frankly, I wouldn't use a narcan kit on an OD. I think it is cruel to resuscitate someone experiencing homeless addiction dozens of times, as is the case A LOT of the time. It isn't a popular opinion, but I liken it to waterboarding in Gitmo. Cruel and unusual punishment to force an overdosing addict to live to OD again. The only way to ensure a defense to homeless addiction is to never shoot up in the first place. It is just Russian roulette at this point.

 

I think the federal experiment on not charging for personal amounts has at least shown that that idea is dumb as fuck. My home town has a crater in it now where 7 businesses used to be and even a thrift store was burned to the ground around a methadone clinic that is 1 block away from 3 different schools.  

 

We need to give some teeth to the idea of helping. Lock them up in a treatment facility at the very least, but free range junkies is not a solution.

I would like to think it was a question of funding but that is a oversimplification. Oregon is abandoning their drug program for not achieving success. I don't know about Washington State. The KIRO TV doc and their program's lack of success is a few years old now. It interviewed social workers, ex-addicts and addicts. They all seemed to agree that free drugs and legitimizing the process does not work. An ex-addict talked about enrollment in a closed facility for a minimum of 60 days where addicts withdrew and were counselled. When they left the facility they had to have a life plan in place and they were checked on. Their success rate was much higher than the norm. Sorry I cannot remember numbers.

 

I had a conversation with an RN yesterday and asked her about drug problems inside the hospital. She said there had been some minor problems and that staff had a security protocol they followed. There had been talk of a 'injection' room inside the Emergency facility but staff said no. She said it was person for her as her brother was an addict back in Newfoundland. He was sent to an isolated camp in the north where he got straight because there were no drugs. She said he was straight for 21 years and came back to town for a visit and within 2 weeks was on drugs again. 

 

She said the free drug program is a waste of money and actually cruel to the users because there is no avenue for getting straight. Simply maintenance. Building a system that will truly help people will be long and expensive. This is drugs but the incidence of mental illness and depression is huge. Were best to spend the money?

[Optimist Prime]

6 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

The part i can't understand is why we don't pick people off the street and take them somewhere to get help. Addicts reach a point where they can no longer make rational decisions. Shouldn't that be enough to just get them off the street and into a program? 

 

5 hours ago, Boudrias said:

I would like to think it was a question of funding but that is a oversimplification. Oregon is abandoning their drug program for not achieving success. I don't know about Washington State. The KIRO TV doc and their program's lack of success is a few years old now. It interviewed social workers, ex-addicts and addicts. They all seemed to agree that free drugs and legitimizing the process does not work. An ex-addict talked about enrollment in a closed facility for a minimum of 60 days where addicts withdrew and were counselled. When they left the facility they had to have a life plan in place and they were checked on. Their success rate was much higher than the norm. Sorry I cannot remember numbers.

 

I had a conversation with an RN yesterday and asked her about drug problems inside the hospital. She said there had been some minor problems and that staff had a security protocol they followed. There had been talk of a 'injection' room inside the Emergency facility but staff said no. She said it was person for her as her brother was an addict back in Newfoundland. He was sent to an isolated camp in the north where he got straight because there were no drugs. She said he was straight for 21 years and came back to town for a visit and within 2 weeks was on drugs again. 

 

She said the free drug program is a waste of money and actually cruel to the users because there is no avenue for getting straight. Simply maintenance. Building a system that will truly help people will be long and expensive. This is drugs but the incidence of mental illness and depression is huge. Were best to spend the money?

yeah, i want to strip the safe injection sites of their funding and remove them entirely where they have become the center of a black hole: recriminalize personal quantities in BC and then re-criminalize being high on opiates in public with the 'sentence' being a secure dry out facility with counselling and classes and life skills programs but they can't leave until their sentence is complete. Preferably up north so as to isolate from the wish to run away, as well as move government money up north by way of the funding of the facilities et cetera. It will take money but we a rich 1st world country. Jail doesn't work and free drugs doesn't work. Stiff penalties with real resources will do a better job. 

[Sharpshooter]

26 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

 

yeah, i want to strip the safe injection sites of their funding and remove them entirely where they have become the center of a black hole: recriminalize personal quantities in BC and then re-criminalize being high on opiates in public with the 'sentence' being a secure dry out facility with counceling and classes and life skills programs but they can't leave until their sentence is complete. Prefereably up north so as to isolate from the wish to run away, as well as move government money up north by way of the funding of the facilities et cetera. It will take money but we a rich 12st world counttry. Jail doesn't work and free drugs doesn't work. Stiff penalties with real resources will do a better job. 

This. 

[Gurn]

2 minute vid

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/video/news/opp-to-apply-mandatory-alcohol-screening-at-every-traffic-stop/vi-AA1o3RZ3?ocid=hpmsn&cvid=50145d0835524b3487aadb23334d1c0a&ei=17

The OPP will be conducting mandatory alcohol screening at traffic stops in an effort to crack down on impaired drivers. Caryn Lieberman reports.

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