your thoughts ?

[DexM94]

https://www.westerninvestor.com/british-columbia/bc-employers-get-5000-more-if-apprentices-self-identify-7608453

 

as a french guy living in France, we're not that much into the woke thing. We can still see the numerous negatives drifts it occurs. If you get more by segregating behavior, race, skin colors or whatever instead of the others, then you miss the whole point and you're part of the problem.

i know this is a difficult subject. 

 

 

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, DexM94 said:

https://www.westerninvestor.com/british-columbia/bc-employers-get-5000-more-if-apprentices-self-identify-7608453

 

as a french guy living in France, we're not that much into the woke thing. We can still see the numerous negatives drifts it occurs. If you get more by segregating behavior, race, skin colors or whatever instead of the others, then you miss the whole point and you're part of the problem.

i know this is a difficult subject. 

 

 

Is this even legit? If this is true, this is ridiculous.

[stawns]

2 hours ago, DexM94 said:

https://www.westerninvestor.com/british-columbia/bc-employers-get-5000-more-if-apprentices-self-identify-7608453

 

as a french guy living in France, we're not that much into the woke thing. We can still see the numerous negatives drifts it occurs. If you get more by segregating behavior, race, skin colors or whatever instead of the others, then you miss the whole point and you're part of the problem.

i know this is a difficult subject. 

 

 

What "woke" thing are you referring to?

[stawns]

2 hours ago, DexM94 said:

https://www.westerninvestor.com/british-columbia/bc-employers-get-5000-more-if-apprentices-self-identify-7608453

 

as a french guy living in France, we're not that much into the woke thing. We can still see the numerous negatives drifts it occurs. If you get more by segregating behavior, race, skin colors or whatever instead of the others, then you miss the whole point and you're part of the problem.

i know this is a difficult subject. 

 

 

Making sure I understand........the company gets the incentive, not the worker.  Is that right?

[bishopshodan]

Is this just a BC thing?

 

Looks like any small and medium Canadian companies can offer it.

 

 

https://www.cfib-fcei.ca/en/tools-resources/financial-incentives-hiring-apprentices#alberta

 

'...Careerlauncher is a NEW apprenticeships program available to Canadian small and medium-sized employers. Through this program, you can receive either a $10,000 grant when you hire an equity-deserving first-year apprentice in one of 39 Red Seal construction or manufacturing trades, or a $5,000 grant when you hire an apprentice that is not part of an equity-deserving group. Equity-deserving groups include women, visible minorities, people with disabilities, etc.) Deadline to apply is March 31, 2024...'

 

[Rook]

15 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Is this just a BC thing?

 

Looks like any small and medium Canadian companies can offer it.

 

 

https://www.cfib-fcei.ca/en/tools-resources/financial-incentives-hiring-apprentices#alberta

 

'...Careerlauncher is a NEW apprenticeships program available to Canadian small and medium-sized employers. Through this program, you can receive either a $10,000 grant when you hire an equity-deserving first-year apprentice in one of 39 Red Seal construction or manufacturing trades, or a $5,000 grant when you hire an apprentice that is not part of an equity-deserving group. Equity-deserving groups include women, visible minorities, people with disabilities, etc.) Deadline to apply is March 31, 2024...'

 

Words matter.  Op comes in with an obviously purpose built post to stir the pot.  When you tell the whole story, you can see how this will help diversify the workplace and discourage discrimination.  Let’s be honest, the country desperately needs tradespeople. 

[Jester13]

I think it was Bill Maher who said (paraphrasing), "Back in the day, being a good liberal meant you don't see colour." 

 

I agree with this sentiment. Nowadays, we're being forced to see colour, sex, etc., and all it's doing is dividing society more. Anyhoogan...

[Joe King]

13 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

I think it was Bill Maher who said (paraphrasing), "Back in the day, being a good liberal meant you don't see colour." 

 

I agree with this sentiment. Nowadays, we're being forced to see colour, sex, etc., and all it's doing is dividing society more. Anyhoogan...

My thoughts as well.It could cause an employer to choose one person over another just for the extra funding, even if that person is not the most capable.This in turn could cause more resentment rather than acceptance.

[Ryan Strome]

10 hours ago, Jester13 said:

I think it was Bill Maher who said (paraphrasing), "Back in the day, being a good liberal meant you don't see colour." 

 

I agree with this sentiment. Nowadays, we're being forced to see colour, sex, etc., and all it's doing is dividing society more. Anyhoogan...

Well said!

9 hours ago, Joe King said:

My thoughts as well.It could cause an employer to choose one person over another just for the extra funding, even if that person is not the most capable.This in turn could cause more resentment rather than acceptance.

I would leave out the could and say it will cause.

[Joe King]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Well said!

I would leave out the could and say it will cause.

Oh I don't know.Some people are easier going than others.Some will resent it others will justify it.

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Joe King said:

Oh I don't know.Some people are easier going than others.Some will resent it others will justify it.

Doubtful employers are always looking to save money. 

[Canuckle]

Incentivizing employers to hire individuals from traditionally marginalized and disenfranchised populations is a good thing.

 

What's the issue.

[Ryan Strome]

5 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Incentivizing employers to hire individuals from traditionally marginalized and disenfranchised populations is a good thing.

 

What's the issue.

Well I mean maybe it's discriminatory no?

 

[Canuckle]

24 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Well I mean maybe it's discriminatory no?

Discriminatory towards who exactly?

 

 

 

We don't all start at the same starting locations, mate. And we don't all get the same opportunities in life. Barriers to entry exist, especially when it comes to historically oppressed minorities predicated on race, gender,  physical handicap, or social class writ large.

 

"The BCCA will pay employers $5,000 for each first-year apprentice they register in any eligible Red Seal trades. However, if an applicant self-identifies as a woman, person with disabilities, Indigenous, racialized Canadian or from the 2SLGBTQI+ community, the incentive doubles to $10,000."

 

Good.

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

Discriminatory towards who exactly?

 

 

 

We don't all start at the same starting locations, mate. And we don't all get the same opportunities in life. Barriers to entry exist, especially when it comes to historically oppressed minorities predicated on race, gender,  physical handicap, or social class writ large.

 

"The BCCA will pay employers $5,000 for each first-year apprentice they register in any eligible Red Seal trades. However, if an applicant self-identifies as a woman, person with disabilities, Indigenous, racialized Canadian or from the 2SLGBTQI+ community, the incentive doubles to $10,000."

 

Good.

Ya...just self identify hey? Hmm sounds like women's sports..

[Canuckle]

14 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Ya...just self identify hey? Hmm sounds like women's sports..

 

Eh, not really.  It's not like Macho Man is gonna roll in there and say he's a woman to get the job.

 

The credit exists to incentive hires that are not typical to a trade whatever the reason. And we know there is a long history of discrimination based on sex, color, creed, etc... in some industries much more than others.

 

For example if someone identifies as first nation, treaty or not, it'll usually be pretty fucking obvious if that person  shows up with blonde hair blue eyes looking like Hitler's Aryan race and shit. You're saying there are zero cheques and balances for which that credit would actually apply? Proof of some significance would still likely be required.

 

But to go back to your original comment you said "discriminatory." But you didn't follow up.   I assume you meant this is "discriminatory" towards heterosexual white males? If so, that is some classic "pulling up the ladder behind you" type speak of which I do not subscribe.

[Ryan Strome]

4 hours ago, Canuckle said:

 

Eh, not really.  It's not like Macho Man is gonna roll in there and say he's a woman to get the job.

 

The credit exists to incentive hires that are not typical to a trade whatever the reason. And we know there is a long history of discrimination based on sex, color, creed, etc... in some industries much more than others.

 

For example if someone identifies as first nation, treaty or not, it'll usually be pretty fucking obvious if that person  shows up with blonde hair blue eyes looking like Hitler's Aryan race and shit. You're saying there are zero cheques and balances for which that credit would actually apply? Proof of some significance would still likely be required.

 

But to go back to your original comment you said "discriminatory." But you didn't follow up.   I assume you meant this is "discriminatory" towards heterosexual white males? If so, that is some classic "pulling up the ladder behind you" type speak of which I do not subscribe.

1) In Canada as it relates to sports there is no requirement just self identify as a woman. Did you miss the bodybuilder who set world records?

 

2) no I called it discriminatory because it is. You are supporting fighting discrimination with discrimination.

 

Finally, I just want to add you just showed that you know very little about indigenous people. So your assumption is they must be brown or lightly tanned? 

[Joe King]

Why does it have to be automatically doubled. Sometimes it may be more than what's needed or maybe not enough. It might be better if the employer kept track of any extra costs and received a tax credit instead. 

[Bob Long]

These stories always bring up the "best person" fallacy arguments. For apprenticeships, its kind of silly to claim that there could be a "best person for the job" when everyone is just learning a trade and no one is an expert in anything.

 

Right now we have a massive shortage of tradespeople, so no one is getting moved to the front of any line. All employers need more willing apprentices.

 

We also know many people are under-represented in the trades.

 

So if not a program like this, how do we get more people of all types in the trades? 

[Canuckle]

5 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

1) In Canada as it relates to sports there is no requirement just self identify as a woman. Did you miss the bodybuilder who set world records?

 

2) no I called it discriminatory because it is. You are supporting fighting discrimination with discrimination.

 

Finally, I just want to add you just showed that you know very little about indigenous people. So your assumption is they must be brown or lightly tanned? 

 

Fucking called it. lmao

 

And unfortunately for you you're wrong, and your lack of education on the history of race, gender, and class relations is glaringly apparent to everyone.

 

Woof

Edited October 8, 2023 by Canuckle

[Ryan Strome]

31 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

These stories always bring up the "best person" fallacy arguments. For apprenticeships, its kind of silly to claim that there could be a "best person for the job" when everyone is just learning a trade and no one is an expert in anything.

 

Right now we have a massive shortage of tradespeople, so no one is getting moved to the front of any line. All employers need more willing apprentices.

 

We also know many people are under-represented in the trades.

 

So if not a program like this, how do we get more people of all types in the trades? 

That is the question we need to figure out. Imo this policy is discriminatory it also allows for fraud just like in female sports. While I can agree it is harder for some I would know because what @Canuckle doesn't understand I'm not European white is as it relates to transgender, employers or schools would not be discriminating against them as they wouldn't know the individuals biological gender.

8 minutes ago, Canuckle said:

 

Fucking called it. lmao

 

And unfortunately for you you're wrong, and your lack of education on the history of race, gender, and class relations is glaringly apparent to everyone.

 

Woof

Lol you didn't call anything. You haven't made a point. Meow.

[moosehead]

36 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

These stories always bring up the "best person" fallacy arguments. For apprenticeships, its kind of silly to claim that there could be a "best person for the job" when everyone is just learning a trade and no one is an expert in anything.

 

Right now we have a massive shortage of tradespeople, so no one is getting moved to the front of any line. All employers need more willing apprentices.

 

We also know many people are under-represented in the trades.

 

So if not a program like this, how do we get more people of all types in the trades? 

 

One easy way to get young people in trades. 

 

Graduates from highschool can do Entry Level Trades Training ( Foundation Program ) 32 weeks - level 1.

 

Free for highschool grads if they start in Sept after grad.

 

Right now they pay 6000 for this program......    Make it free if they do straight from highschool.     Run a bus from a central highschool location so free transportation also. 

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, Joe King said:

Why does it have to be automatically doubled. Sometimes it may be more than what's needed or maybe not enough. It might be better if the employer kept track of any extra costs and received a tax credit instead. 

Imagine logical thinking +1

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, moosehead said:

 

One easy way to get young people in trades. 

 

Graduates from highschool can do Entry Level Trades Training ( Foundation Program ) 32 weeks - level 1.

 

Free for highschool grads if they start in Sept after grad.

 

Right now they pay 6000 for this program......    Make it free if they do straight from highschool.     Run a bus from a central highschool location so free transportation also. 

Great point but how would that advance the government's never ending gender and race politics?

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said:

That is the question we need to figure out. Imo this policy is discriminatory it also allows for fraud just like in female sports. While I can agree it is harder for some I would know because what @Canuckle doesn't understand I'm not European white is as it relates to transgender, employers or schools would not be discriminating against them as they wouldn't know the individuals biological gender.

 

but this is the problem today, this is about jobs. Why are we bringing in this other culture war crap? sports has nothing to do with the jobs we need to fill. 

 

So if not this program, then what? how do we get more women looking at the trades, e.g.?

 

Would it still be discriminatory if someone could prove to you that the extra money was actually needed for a legit reason?