US Politics Thread

[Bob Long]

12 hours ago, 24K said:

The double whammy of race and gender is probably what is doing it.

What might also be cinteobuting to it is that she is a Californian politician and a lot of people on both side hates Californian politicians on the federal level. That is why I worry about Newsome if he ever tries for the presidency. 

I would think Newsome could moderate his messaging for more national appeal, but you could be right. 

[Warhippy]

13 hours ago, nuckin_futz said:

VP's are always punching bags. I can't think of a single VP who did much of anything beyond Dick Cheney and in his case he did way too much.

Bring back Barack Obama as VP under Newsome or Buttigeig and set the GOP on fire!

[RupertKBD]

7 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I would think Newsome could moderate his messaging for more national appeal, but you could be right. 

As do I....

I don't think people really put all that much stock in where someone is from, even in today's partisan environment. It wasn't long ago that you could make the claim that Republican voters hated rich New Yorkers, but a certain professional con man has flipped that narrative on it's head.

There's also the Californian POTUS, (who was a member of the Hollywood elite) that most Republicans think of the greatest president since Lincoln....

As Stanley pointed out, it's going to be Biden and Trump again unless something changes drastically and the GOP collectively wakes up to the fact that they're in a cult. Still, that doesn't mean we can't argue the merits of one potential candidate or another.

Just for discussion's sake, we could debate a possible DeSantis v Newsome election in 2028.

Edited September 19, 2023 by RupertKBD

[Bob Long]

11 hours ago, Spring Salmon said:

Carbon tax is pretty progressive. It certainly has raised the price of fuel and everything else. Fertilizer reductions raise food prices. Plastic bag and cutlery ban makes us pay more for substandard replacements. Pretty much everything progressives do cost us more with no actual benefit

true, but a carbon price has also been shown to be a good tax for neutrality and also helping to create a carbon-free'r economy. When you take away the rhetoric and look at the numbers its not anything like PP is complaining about. 

The plastic ban stuff is ridiculous tho. 

The difference socially though is quite different. "Progressives" tend to push for more rights for people, alt-right folks push for taking them away. You'll have a hard time convincing me that taking rights away is a good alternative. 

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, Alflives said:

The Rats should get Michelle Obama to run with President Biden. Then she runs for President in 2028. 

she's too smart for the job. 

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

 

Just for discussion's sake, we could debate a possible DeSantis v Newsome election in 2028.

do you think DeStupid will make it that far? he seems to be tanking the more people get to know him. 

[ronthecivil]

This thread looks about right. Memes about lock him up, or fat people, or handies in the theatre. Not even and talk about the porn star running?

Never mind policy I won't go there that would be silly.

That said.........

Every time that the left goes after Trump, he can play the conspiracy card (and depending on the case, he can claim it, but definitely not in Georgia, where he is doomed.)

Every time the right goes religious and does things like ban abortions outright and threatens doctors, they might as well be doing a grass roots door knocking campaign for the democrats.

All the Republicans need to do is elect anyone, literally anyone, than Trump in the primary and they walk to an easy victory. 

 

[ronthecivil]

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

true, but a carbon price has also been shown to be a good tax for neutrality and also helping to create a carbon-free'r economy. When you take away the rhetoric and look at the numbers its not anything like PP is complaining about. 

The plastic ban stuff is ridiculous tho. 

The difference socially though is quite different. "Progressives" tend to push for more rights for people, alt-right folks push for taking them away. You'll have a hard time convincing me that taking rights away is a good alternative. 

Load up on the good soupy noodles from TnT (Choi! Choi!). Enough to fill one cloth bag. Bag has some plastic in it. It's not going to last forever. The soupy noodles come in five or six packs. Each pack has a plastic wrapper. Each pack in the plastic wrapper has a plastic wrapper. Inside each individual pack are two smaller packs for the soup mix inside.

There is no LOGIC to reducing plastic this way unless you dramatically change packing practices. But that's not the point. As long as people FEEL like they are CONTRIBUTING, that's what matters. As long as you FEEL like your saving the planet, that's what matters. Whether you are or not doesn't matter.

[Warhippy]

12 hours ago, Spring Salmon said:

Carbon tax is pretty progressive. It certainly has raised the price of fuel and everything else. Fertilizer reductions raise food prices. Plastic bag and cutlery ban makes us pay more for substandard replacements. Pretty much everything progressives do cost us more with no actual benefit

Carbon tax has been shown to not in fact raise inflation or prices on much of anything.  It's down to corporate greed and the stupidity of the population who believe the government is to blame for corporations raising prices across the board while those corps shrink volume and charge ever more.

 

https://centreforfuturework.ca/2023/05/08/no-correlation-between-inflation-and-carbon-pricing/#:~:text=The impact of the carbon,%2C that's a 2% increase.

 

11 hours ago, Spring Salmon said:

https://nationalpost.com/opinion/np-view-trudeau-ploughs-ahead-with-fertilizer-cut-while-turning-a-blind-eye-to-human-suffering

 

Asian countries dumping plastics in the rivers and oceans is the problem,  not a plastic straw in my Slurpee. Plastic replacements are not anywhere near as good as plastic. What about that report that just came out about how paper straws are actually worse?

You won't get a single argument from me here.  it's insane to think that if we just ease up others will do the same.  it doesn't happen like that because people are selfish and stupid.

The alternative though is doing nothing and that's been tried before and look what it got us.

[RupertKBD]

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

true, but a carbon price has also been shown to be a good tax for neutrality and also helping to create a carbon-free'r economy. When you take away the rhetoric and look at the numbers its not anything like PP is complaining about. 

The plastic ban stuff is ridiculous tho. 

The difference socially though is quite different. "Progressives" tend to push for more rights for people, alt-right folks push for taking them away. You'll have a hard time convincing me that taking rights away is a good alternative. 

I agree and I have made that point several times on the old forum. Despite people's claims otherwise, the efficacy of CT seems to be backed up by numbers.

That being said, I think it was 24K who made an excellent point about Carbon Offsets. If folks don't know what they are, they're basically an end around for large corporations to appear to be doing their part, while actually carrying on with business as usual.

Any comprehensive Climate Action plan would have to include the banning of Carbon Offsets to be effective.

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

Load up on the good soupy noodles from TnT (Choi! Choi!). Enough to fill one cloth bag. Bag has some plastic in it. It's not going to last forever. The soupy noodles come in five or six packs. Each pack has a plastic wrapper. Each pack in the plastic wrapper has a plastic wrapper. Inside each individual pack are two smaller packs for the soup mix inside.

There is no LOGIC to reducing plastic this way unless you dramatically change packing practices. But that's not the point. As long as people FEEL like they are CONTRIBUTING, that's what matters. As long as you FEEL like your saving the planet, that's what matters. Whether you are or not doesn't matter.

I have a lot of plastics manufacturing experience for medical devices in my background, it drives me nuts the way this is being handled. We're skipping over investment in actual recycling/re-use options and doing the feeley thing, 100% agree. 

[Warhippy]

11 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

This thread looks about right. Memes about lock him up, or fat people, or handies in the theatre. Not even and talk about the porn star running?

Never mind policy I won't go there that would be silly.

That said.........

Every time that the left goes after Trump, he can play the conspiracy card (and depending on the case, he can claim it, but definitely not in Georgia, where he is doomed.)

Every time the right goes religious and does things like ban abortions outright and threatens doctors, they might as well be doing a grass roots door knocking campaign for the democrats.

All the Republicans need to do is elect anyone, literally anyone, than Trump in the primary and they walk to an easy victory. 

 

Have you seen the field?

Who do they have that is actually even remotely electable to the moderates?

That's the issue.  The GOP went all in on stupidity trying to out trump trump and look at that field.

Yikes

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

I agree and I have made that point several times on the old forum. Despite people's claims otherwise, the efficacy of CT seems to be backed up by numbers.

That being said, I think it was 24K who made an excellent point about Carbon Offsets. If folks don't know what they are, they're basically an end around for large corporations to appear to be doing their part, while actually carrying on with business as usual.

Any comprehensive Climate Action plan would have to include the banning of Carbon Offsets to be effective.

yea the whole argument about the carbon tax and inflation got blown up recently. So much rhetoric. 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

11 hours ago, Spring Salmon said:

Asian countries dumping plastics in the rivers and oceans is the problem,  not a plastic straw in my Slurpee.

Awfully convenient to blame it on "Asian countries", when we're actually a major contributor.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/fifth-estate-recycling-1.6410657

https://oceana.ca/en/blog/canadas-plastic-problem-sorting-fact-fiction/

https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/22/canadian-companies-illegally-shipped-waste-overseas-00041393

https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/this-is-why-canadian-waste-keeps-ending-up-in-asia-1.4441472?cache=walqrkeg

 

But sure.  It's the "Asian countries dumping plastics in the rivers and oceans" 

 

[RupertKBD]

4 hours ago, ronthecivil said:

This thread looks about right. Memes about lock him up, or fat people, or handies in the theatre. Not even and talk about the porn star running?

Never mind policy I won't go there that would be silly.

That said.........

Every time that the left goes after Trump, he can play the conspiracy card (and depending on the case, he can claim it, but definitely not in Georgia, where he is doomed.)

Every time the right goes religious and does things like ban abortions outright and threatens doctors, they might as well be doing a grass roots door knocking campaign for the democrats.

All the Republicans need to do is elect anyone, literally anyone, than Trump in the primary and they walk to an easy victory.

I used to believe something like this, but my view has changed, for a couple of reasons:

Some of the GOP candidates are positioning themselves as Trump-Lite. Basically, MAGA without the baggage. They're doing this, because they feel they have to appeal to Trump's base. The problem is, that sort of platform doesn't work for anyone but Trump by the time you get to the general election. The candidates with a platform that might appeal to voters in a general election don't have a chance at the nomination.

The second (and biggest) reason I disagree is Trump himself.

Think about what you know about this guy. Nothing is worse than being seen as a loser and sitting back and watching Ron DeSantis, or Nikki Haley, achieve something that he couldn't would be a complete disaster for him and his gigantic ego. If he doesn't win the nomination, there is zero doubt in my mind that he'll cry about a "rigged" nomination process and he'll tell his followers to stay home on election day.

Trump doesn't actually care about the country, if he doesn't get to be king. He'd much rather see whomever beats him for the GQP nomination lose, (and then claim he "would have won in a landslide") than he would seeing any Republican besides himself in the Oval Office.

Edited September 19, 2023 by RupertKBD

[ronthecivil]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Have you seen the field?

Who do they have that is actually even remotely electable to the moderates?

That's the issue.  The GOP went all in on stupidity trying to out trump trump and look at that field.

Yikes

Yup!

Take away the old and baggage Trump guy. Put in the even more extreme young guy that tries to rap. He's even more Trump then Trump when it comes to policy. Not that I think he would (if it's not Trump probably Desantis, but I am putting it out there to make a point). Which is....

And he would win easily. You underestimate how many people dispise the left in the US. And just like the right, they have gone extreme as well, which makes it easy to put up attack ads.

Not being Trump and having the stain of the insurrection (now there's an attack ad in the waiting!) would likely be more than enough.  The more "moderate" ones would win by even more because the more centre the right goes, the easier it is for them to win.

[Warhippy]

Just now, ronthecivil said:

Yup!

Take away the old and baggage Trump guy. Put in the even more extreme young guy that tries to rap. He's even more Trump then Trump when it comes to policy. Not that I think he would (if it's not Trump probably Desantis, but I am putting it out there to make a point). Which is....

And he would win easily. You underestimate how many people dispise the left in the US. And just like the right, they have gone extreme as well, which makes it easy to put up attack ads.

Not being Trump and having the stain of the insurrection (now there's an attack ad in the waiting!) would likely be more than enough.  The more "moderate" ones would win by even more because the more centre the right goes, the easier it is for them to win.

The issue is, there is nobody moderate on the right in America right now.

[24K]

15 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I have a lot of plastics manufacturing experience for medical devices in my background, it drives me nuts the way this is being handled. We're skipping over investment in actual recycling/re-use options and doing the feeley thing, 100% agree. 

Well good news here is that we don't have to worry about plastics very soon with researchers managing to find bacteria or the like that can breakdown plastic pretty efficiently. 

[nuckin_futz]

Another MAGA conspiracy theory blown up.

 

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by nuckin_futz

[RupertKBD]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

do you think DeStupid will make it that far? he seems to be tanking the more people get to know him. 

Just an example, but honestly, none of them are dumber than Bone Spurs, so.....

[RupertKBD]

22 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

Yup!

Take away the old and baggage Trump guy. Put in the even more extreme young guy that tries to rap. He's even more Trump then Trump when it comes to policy. Not that I think he would (if it's not Trump probably Desantis, but I am putting it out there to make a point). Which is....

And he would win easily. You underestimate how many people dispise the left in the US. And just like the right, they have gone extreme as well, which makes it easy to put up attack ads.

Not being Trump and having the stain of the insurrection (now there's an attack ad in the waiting!) would likely be more than enough.  The more "moderate" ones would win by even more because the more centre the right goes, the easier it is for them to win.

Honestly Ron, I think you're overestimating it.

Think back to the last three National elections in the US. Republicans underperformed in all of them.

[RupertKBD]

For those who haven't paid a lot of attention to the Hunter Biden saga, one of the key drivers behind the current GQP "Impeachment Inquiry" is an allegation from a couple of so-called whistleblowers, who claim there was high level meddling from the DOJ (or above) designed to keep Hunter out of jail.

One of the key claims by the whistleblowers is that in a meeting, the man responsible for the Investigation, David Weiss, said that he was not the final decision maker on whether HB would be charged. Republicans have seized on this, inferring that either Merrick Garland, or Joe Biden (or both) were the ones who would make that decision for Weiss.

The problem with all of this is, Weiss says he never spoke those words. Of course, Congressional Republicans are going to ignore that and take the word of the guy (IRS whistleblower, Gary Shapley) who is telling them what they want to hear.

The problem the the "investigators" now face is that three other witnesses who were in that same meeting have corroborated Weiss's version of the story:

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/19/politics/witness-testimony-disputes-irs-whistleblower-hunter-biden/index.html

 

Quote

 

In their recent testimony, the other FBI and IRS officials in the October 2022 meeting have supported Weiss’s version of events on several key points of contention, particularly his allegation that Weiss said he was “not the deciding person” on whether to bring charges.

“I do not remember – I don’t – he didn’t say that. In my recollection, if he would have said that, I would have remembered it,” Thomas Sobocinski, the special agent in charge of the FBI’s Baltimore field office, told the committee.

“I do not recall that ever being said,” said Darrell Waldon, who was previously Shapley’s boss as the IRS special agent in charge of the Washington, DC, field office overseeing criminal investigations.

“I don’t remember him saying that,” said Ryeshia Holley, an assistant special agent in charge with the FBI, who added she thought Shapley may have been confused or misunderstood what transpired at the meeting.

 

More in the link

[Warhippy]

24 minutes ago, clamlinguine said:

Before 2016, I did an in-depth questionnaire on all presidential candidates, it selected Trump for me because he is only slightly right of center, as was I, by 2015 standards. I believe he stayed true to that.

Do you still believe Trump is only slightly right of centre?

[Gurn]

https://www.msn.com/en-ca/news/politics/biden-impeachment-already-collapsing-as-new-evidence-destroys-gop-theories-report/ar-AA1gX1p0?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=bf53ce47b7404ffa843df6752b919bd3&ei=9

"

House Republicans are moving forward with their impeachment inquiry against President Joe Biden with a hearing scheduled for next Thursday — but their core narrative is already disintegrating, Newsweek reported Tuesday.

The impeachment is based on the idea that the former president somehow profited from his son Hunter Biden's overseas business deals while he was vice president. A key theory was that his involvement in ousting Ukrainian prosecutor general Viktor Shokin was to prevent the investigation of an energy company Hunter was involved in — but this has been debunked several times, and ironically the latest evidence destroying it comes from right-wing commentator John Solomon, who published a pre-meeting memo from the State Department to Biden on Shokin.

That memo, noted Bickerton, "called for Shokin's 'removal,' claiming he was 'widely regarded as an obstacle to fighting corruption, if not a source of the problem'" — in other words, making clear that Biden was simply executing the official U.S. foreign policy position that a corrupt prosecutor needed to be removed.

This comes after Republicans have held hearings trying to tie Biden to his son's business dealings, but have not established any evidence for this. One of Hunter's business associates, Devon Archer, testified that the elder Biden was sometimes on calls with his son while they met, but that they didn't discuss business and Biden was simply checking in on his son's well-being.

 

Even a number of House Republicans have expressed doubts that the evidence is there to charge Biden with an impeachable offense, with Freedom Caucus stalwart Rep. Ken Buck (R-CO) suggesting this whole thing is motivated more by "revenge" for former President Donald Trump's impeachments than any compelling evidence against Biden.

Hunter Biden is separately facing federal charges for tax violations and the improper purchase of a firearm, in a case that some legal experts have criticized as excessively charged.

[the destroyer of worlds]