[Article] The Canucks won’t be able to call up Vasily Podkolzin (unless they put him on to the opening roster) due to performance bonuses

[RWJC]

The Canucks won’t be able to call up Vasily Podkolzin (unless they put him on to the opening roster) due to performance bonuses

 

Vasily Podkolzin did not make the Vancouver Canucks out of Training Camp this year.

 

Podkolzin was among the large round of 20+ cuts that took the Canucks’ roster from camp-sized to near-season-ready in just one quick set of transactions. And, really, based on his preseason performance, few were surprised, though most had Podkolzin penciled in to their opening night lineups.

 

But opening night lineups and opening day rosters are two different things altogether, and while Podkolzin is now safely out of the running for the former, he’s still very likely to feature in the latter. As in, the Canucks are almost certainly going to recall Podkolzin back to Vancouver as they set their official season-starting active roster.

 

Why?

 

The short answer is “performance bonuses.” The long answer is this article.

 

Performance bonuses are a tricky thing. That they only count against the salary cap when they’re achieved is really only half the story. Teams can carry up to 7.5% of the cap ceiling in potential bonuses without issue, even if those potential bonuses might put the team over the cap, and if those bonuses are hit, they can roll over onto next season’s books.

 

That isn’t a concern for the Canucks, who only have about $1.5 million in total performance bonuses spread out around all their various ELC pro players.

 

Of far more concern are the rules that govern performance bonuses, recalls, and teams using LTIR relief space, of which the Canucks will be one.

The math gets a little complicated here. But the gist of it all is this:

Whenever a team places its first player onto long-term injured reserve, and goes “into LTIR” (exceeding the cap via LTIR) as a result, two pools are created.

 

The first is the salary relief pool, which is that magic number that the Canucks hit oh so perfectly last season.

 

The second is a performance bonus relief pool, and that one works a little different.

 

Whenever that first instance of LTIR occurs, the team’s active roster is snapshotted in time, and all of the potential performance bonuses present are tallied up into a performance bonus relief pool.

 

For as long as a team remains “in LTIR,” then whenever a new player with performance bonuses is added to the roster via recall, signing, or trade, their potential bonuses must fit within that previously-established relief pool.

If not, that amount comes out of the salary relief pool, effectively shortening the team’s available cap space by the amount of the potential bonuses.

 

It’s often said that, if a player isn’t on the opening day roster, then their full cap hit, bonuses and all, counts against the cap when they’re recalled. As you can see here, that’s not exactly true, but it is practically true, and especially when it comes to the Canucks and Podkolzin.

 

Podkolzin’s total amount of potential bonuses in this, the final year of his entry-level contract, are $850,000. That’s the most of anyone in the organization by a longshot. Jonathan Lekkerimäki’s $450,000 are the next highest, and he’s safely tucked away in Sweden. Everyone else is in the range of $80K or lower, and that makes Podkolzin a unique conundrum.

 

The basic effect is this: if Podkolzin is not on the Canucks’ roster when they send Tucker Poolman to LTIR (which will occur as they set their opening day roster), then whatever performance bonus relief pool they’re able to muster up will fall far short of the $850K in potential bonuses held by Podkolzin, and thus, to recall him, the Canucks would need to carve most of that $850K out of their salary relief pool.

 

Which, as it stands, is impossible. The Canucks are going to have enough room to ice a 23-player roster with Poolman’s relief space, but only barely. Fitting a whole ‘nother $850K in there is just not doable, not without either skating with a smaller roster or placing more players onto LTIR.

 

In other words, if Podkolzin is not on the opening day roster, he’ll either have to wait for more injuries before getting the call-up from Abbotsford, or else he’ll be quite literally stuck down there.

 

Of course, there is a simple solution available to the Canucks, and that’s just placing Podkolzin onto the opening day roster and then shipping him right back down to Abbotsford the next day.

 

In doing so, the Canucks would “capture” Podkolzin’s $850,000 as part of their performance relief pool, thus giving them ample room to recall him and anyone else with a bonus while they’re at it. The performance bonus relief will sit at a mostly-unused $850K (or more, if bonuses like Cole McWard’s $55K in potential bonuses are added to the mix) as long as Poolman remains on LTIR, and Podkolzin can come up and down as much as the team pleases.

 

This will require some clever roster manoeuvring from here on out. The Canucks are currently carrying 14 forwards, nine defenders, and two goalies. Even if Ilya Mikheyev starts the year out on IR, that still leaves at least one cut left before the opening day 23-player roster can be set. And two, if room is to be made for Podkolzin.

 

This could be as simple as swapping Podkolzin out for McWard and Nils Åman, none of whom require waivers this season. If Mikheyev is back, it will require one additional cut and thus someone placed on waivers, but any of Guillaume Brisebois, Noah Juulsen, or Jack Studnicka would probably be safe to pass through.

 

Do that, and the Canucks have nothing to worry about. The bonus relief pool will be in place, Podkolzin can safely be returned to Abbotsford to develop, and then, when he’s ready, he can come back to Vancouver to attempt to restart his NHL career.

Don’t do that, and it might be a long time before Podkolzin is seen again on this side of the Port Mann Bridge.

 

Stephan Roget

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/canucks-wont-able-call-up-vasily-podkolzin-opening-roster-performance-bonuses

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Lol, I just posted this too.

[RWJC]

Haha apologies, must have been editing to post at the same time as you

Edited October 3, 2023 by RWJC

[Strawbone]

Salary cap math is way too convoluted and open for manipulation.

 

[DeNiro]

It’s a paper transaction. Not that big of deal.

 

McWard “down” and Podkolzin “up” and then switch.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

28 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Haha apologies, must have been editing to post at the same time as you

 

Yours is formatted better.

[Quantum]

The truth is, Podkolzin should spend a lot of time in the AHL this year, sort of like what Hoglander did last year. Let him log big minutes and gain some chemistry with Klimovich and maybe Sasson and/or McDonaugh. He's been bouncing in lineups with no consistent linemates for years now dating back to his KHL days.

 

When Rutherford was in charge of the Penguins, he would "overripe" talent in the AHL before inserting them into the NHL lineup. This is a system that just hasn't been happening with the Canucks. The Canucks have had a habit since the Hodgson/Kassian years to rush first round talent to the NHL. Sometimes it works with Petey and Hughes but most of the time it has ended in disaster like Virtanen, McCann (he found his way into being a great NHLer but there was no reason he should've played in the NHL as a 19 year old). Juolevi did get AHL time but I'd say injuries really did him in.

 

I'd rather Podz finds some confidence and leads the Abby Canucks this year then getting buried in the Canucks lineup and being a healthy scratch every few games. Call up Podz in like December/January once there's some injuries and go from there.

 

Also, Podz has been envisioned to be a power forward and Power Forwards infamously take a long time to develop.

[BlockerHigh]

35 minutes ago, Quantum said:

The truth is, Podkolzin should spend a lot of time in the AHL this year, sort of like what Hoglander did last year. Let him log big minutes and gain some chemistry with Klimovich and maybe Sasson and/or McDonaugh. He's been bouncing in lineups with no consistent linemates for years now dating back to his KHL days.

 

When Rutherford was in charge of the Penguins, he would "overripe" talent in the AHL before inserting them into the NHL lineup. This is a system that just hasn't been happening with the Canucks. The Canucks have had a habit since the Hodgson/Kassian years to rush first round talent to the NHL. Sometimes it works with Petey and Hughes but most of the time it has ended in disaster like Virtanen, McCann (he found his way into being a great NHLer but there was no reason he should've played in the NHL as a 19 year old). Juolevi did get AHL time but I'd say injuries really did him in.

 

I'd rather Podz finds some confidence and leads the Abby Canucks this year then getting buried in the Canucks lineup and being a healthy scratch every few games. Call up Podz in like December/January once there's some injuries and go from there.

 

Also, Podz has been envisioned to be a power forward and Power Forwards infamously take a long time to develop.

 

I think the issue with Podz is he had a very good rookie season, because he was allowed to "play free" as Bruce was not a very detailed systems guy. This may have padded his stats a bit and also, didn't force in the disciplined systems play needed. In comes tochhet and now he's 'thinking' too much vs. playing. These systems aren't new, I am sure he's seen them in junior and the KHL, but his mind is now focused on "not making  mistakes" vs playing his game.

 

As such, I 100% agree with you. Allow him to play ALOT of minutes in the AHL, without worry of only getting 8 mins a night or being stapled to the bench for making an error. Given him top line minutes, first PP, first PK and develop all those skills he has, and give him his confidence back to allow him to just "play the game again"....he's overthinking. The talent is there. It kind of bothered me when Tocchet hinted the "hockey iq" isn't as high as it should be. He clearly didn't see the kid play in Russia or the WJC...he's a smart player...he's just overly nervous and pushing himself too hard...

[tas]

that's a whole lotta words to write for an article that's totally meaningless. 

 

god I hate the canuck-o-sphere. canucks army, daily hive, and all those other sources of drivel need to go away forever. 

[AK-19]

6 minutes ago, tas said:

that's a whole lotta words to write for an article that's totally meaningless. 

 

god I hate the canuck-o-sphere. canucks army, daily hive, and all those other sources of drivel need to go away forever. 

 

Agreed. This is a problem if we go the whole year without any other LTIR injuries. That has basically never happened to the Canucks since a salary cap existed. 

[higgyfan]

46 minutes ago, BlockerHigh said:

 

I think the issue with Podz is he had a very good rookie season, because he was allowed to "play free" as Bruce was not a very detailed systems guy. This may have padded his stats a bit and also, didn't force in the disciplined systems play needed. In comes tochhet and now he's 'thinking' too much vs. playing. These systems aren't new, I am sure he's seen them in junior and the KHL, but his mind is now focused on "not making  mistakes" vs playing his game.

 

As such, I 100% agree with you. Allow him to play ALOT of minutes in the AHL, without worry of only getting 8 mins a night or being stapled to the bench for making an error. Given him top line minutes, first PP, first PK and develop all those skills he has, and give him his confidence back to allow him to just "play the game again"....he's overthinking. The talent is there. It kind of bothered me when Tocchet hinted the "hockey iq" isn't as high as it should be. He clearly didn't see the kid play in Russia or the WJC...he's a smart player...he's just overly nervous and pushing himself too hard...

I agree about Podz 'overthinking' the game.

 

I didn't read Tocc's statement as a suggestion that Podz's IQ is in question, more so that all the other talk

going on in his head (analysis-paralysis), is creating havoc with his processing during the game; resulting

in poor decisions.

 

Just looking at his stats during the playoffs in his final KHL season tells me that his IQ is just fine.

As a 19yr old, he outplayed everyone on his team in the 16 games; including Kuze, by a country mile.

He also showed his top 6 IQ in his rookie season, while playing alongside Miller or Pete.

 

Like Tocc has said, 'Podzy's just got to let it hang'. 

[Déjà Vu]

Agree, podzy should just chill in AHL this year, get a year under his belt and next year hopefully he will be ready

[PeteyBOI]

3 hours ago, RWJC said:

The Canucks won’t be able to call up Vasily Podkolzin (unless they put him on to the opening roster) due to performance bonuses

 

Vasily Podkolzin did not make the Vancouver Canucks out of Training Camp this year.

 

Podkolzin was among the large round of 20+ cuts that took the Canucks’ roster from camp-sized to near-season-ready in just one quick set of transactions. And, really, based on his preseason performance, few were surprised, though most had Podkolzin penciled in to their opening night lineups.

 

But opening night lineups and opening day rosters are two different things altogether, and while Podkolzin is now safely out of the running for the former, he’s still very likely to feature in the latter. As in, the Canucks are almost certainly going to recall Podkolzin back to Vancouver as they set their official season-starting active roster.

 

Why?

 

The short answer is “performance bonuses.” The long answer is this article.

 

Performance bonuses are a tricky thing. That they only count against the salary cap when they’re achieved is really only half the story. Teams can carry up to 7.5% of the cap ceiling in potential bonuses without issue, even if those potential bonuses might put the team over the cap, and if those bonuses are hit, they can roll over onto next season’s books.

 

That isn’t a concern for the Canucks, who only have about $1.5 million in total performance bonuses spread out around all their various ELC pro players.

 

Of far more concern are the rules that govern performance bonuses, recalls, and teams using LTIR relief space, of which the Canucks will be one.

The math gets a little complicated here. But the gist of it all is this:

Whenever a team places its first player onto long-term injured reserve, and goes “into LTIR” (exceeding the cap via LTIR) as a result, two pools are created.

 

The first is the salary relief pool, which is that magic number that the Canucks hit oh so perfectly last season.

 

The second is a performance bonus relief pool, and that one works a little different.

 

Whenever that first instance of LTIR occurs, the team’s active roster is snapshotted in time, and all of the potential performance bonuses present are tallied up into a performance bonus relief pool.

 

For as long as a team remains “in LTIR,” then whenever a new player with performance bonuses is added to the roster via recall, signing, or trade, their potential bonuses must fit within that previously-established relief pool.

If not, that amount comes out of the salary relief pool, effectively shortening the team’s available cap space by the amount of the potential bonuses.

 

It’s often said that, if a player isn’t on the opening day roster, then their full cap hit, bonuses and all, counts against the cap when they’re recalled. As you can see here, that’s not exactly true, but it is practically true, and especially when it comes to the Canucks and Podkolzin.

 

Podkolzin’s total amount of potential bonuses in this, the final year of his entry-level contract, are $850,000. That’s the most of anyone in the organization by a longshot. Jonathan Lekkerimäki’s $450,000 are the next highest, and he’s safely tucked away in Sweden. Everyone else is in the range of $80K or lower, and that makes Podkolzin a unique conundrum.

 

The basic effect is this: if Podkolzin is not on the Canucks’ roster when they send Tucker Poolman to LTIR (which will occur as they set their opening day roster), then whatever performance bonus relief pool they’re able to muster up will fall far short of the $850K in potential bonuses held by Podkolzin, and thus, to recall him, the Canucks would need to carve most of that $850K out of their salary relief pool.

 

Which, as it stands, is impossible. The Canucks are going to have enough room to ice a 23-player roster with Poolman’s relief space, but only barely. Fitting a whole ‘nother $850K in there is just not doable, not without either skating with a smaller roster or placing more players onto LTIR.

 

In other words, if Podkolzin is not on the opening day roster, he’ll either have to wait for more injuries before getting the call-up from Abbotsford, or else he’ll be quite literally stuck down there.

 

Of course, there is a simple solution available to the Canucks, and that’s just placing Podkolzin onto the opening day roster and then shipping him right back down to Abbotsford the next day.

 

In doing so, the Canucks would “capture” Podkolzin’s $850,000 as part of their performance relief pool, thus giving them ample room to recall him and anyone else with a bonus while they’re at it. The performance bonus relief will sit at a mostly-unused $850K (or more, if bonuses like Cole McWard’s $55K in potential bonuses are added to the mix) as long as Poolman remains on LTIR, and Podkolzin can come up and down as much as the team pleases.

 

This will require some clever roster manoeuvring from here on out. The Canucks are currently carrying 14 forwards, nine defenders, and two goalies. Even if Ilya Mikheyev starts the year out on IR, that still leaves at least one cut left before the opening day 23-player roster can be set. And two, if room is to be made for Podkolzin.

 

This could be as simple as swapping Podkolzin out for McWard and Nils Åman, none of whom require waivers this season. If Mikheyev is back, it will require one additional cut and thus someone placed on waivers, but any of Guillaume Brisebois, Noah Juulsen, or Jack Studnicka would probably be safe to pass through.

 

Do that, and the Canucks have nothing to worry about. The bonus relief pool will be in place, Podkolzin can safely be returned to Abbotsford to develop, and then, when he’s ready, he can come back to Vancouver to attempt to restart his NHL career.

Don’t do that, and it might be a long time before Podkolzin is seen again on this side of the Port Mann Bridge.

 

Stephan Roget

 

https://canucksarmy.com/news/canucks-wont-able-call-up-vasily-podkolzin-opening-roster-performance-bonuses

im not sure if this is correctly worded or not. usually i let mll explain the ASCL and bonus relief pool because they are very complicated... haven't wrapped my head around it for a year now... sounds close to right but im thinking they are wrong about podkolzins bonus, from what i understand alot of performance bonuses can be deferred but with LTIR it complicates it somehow.... SIGH... i will go read 1500 words on LTIR ASCL and performance bonuses...

[Moeknows]

1 hour ago, tas said:

that's a whole lotta words to write for an article that's totally meaningless. 

 

god I hate the canuck-o-sphere. canucks army, daily hive, and all those other sources of drivel need to go away forever. 

Will Rodgers never met you did he? 

[PeteyBOI]

so yes this is technically all correct but you do not need to calculate it in this fashion and in actuality is not the correct method... if you must find a way to maximize the potential space and only have the ability to do that with performance bonuses than i guess thats ok...

 

the reason why its not the best method is... all regular salary LTIR space can be used to recall players including bonuses too, but if you maximize the ASCL calculation with bonuses it creates a secondary bonus pool, which means for the rest of the year only performance bonuses can be filled with that space...

 

here is my understanding of the rules...

 

1. LTIR and Recalling Players with Bonuses:

   •  if a player on LTIR has a regular salary plus performance bonuses in their contract, the team can use the LTIR relief to recall that player, including their bonuses, without any issues. LTIR relief allows teams to exceed the salary cap by the amount of the injured player's cap hit.

2. Secondary Bonus Pool and ASCL:

   •  if a team maximizes its ASCL calculation with performance bonuses at the start of the season, it can create a secondary bonus pool. This secondary bonus pool is essentially a cap space reserve that can only be used to pay earned performance bonuses for the rest of the season.

   • Once the ASCL reaches the salary cap limit, any additional performance bonuses earned by players will be deferred to the next season and counted against the team's cap in the following year. This mechanism prevents teams from exceeding the cap by paying out performance bonuses.

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dankmemes187

[PeteyBOI]

yeah actually this is totally waste of space. half of its is worded poorly and is misleading, you dont "need" Bonus relief space to recall a player with bonuses you just need space... performance bonus relief space is just a further handicap, but sometimes is necessary to maximize your ASCL space

 

this dang sentence is so backwards its not even funny "

For as long as a team remains “in LTIR,” then whenever a new player with performance bonuses is added to the roster via recall, signing, or trade, their potential bonuses must fit within that previously-established relief pool.

If not, that amount comes out of the salary relief pool, effectively shortening the team’s available cap space by the amount of the potential bonuses."

 

we dont need to have performance bonus pools because if you include them in your ASCL calculation it also limits your teams available capspace... oh boy... sports writers should not attempt explaining lawyer jargon

Edited October 3, 2023 by Dankmemes187

[RWJC]

1 hour ago, Dankmemes187 said:

im not sure if this is correctly worded or not. usually i let mll explain the ASCL and bonus relief pool because they are very complicated... haven't wrapped my head around it for a year now... sounds close to right but im thinking they are wrong about podkolzins bonus, from what i understand alot of performance bonuses can be deferred but with LTIR it complicates it somehow.... SIGH... i will go read 1500 words on LTIR ASCL and performance bonuses...

Agreed. Just posted the article for discussion sake. Have tried to msg Mll to join the new site but no response as of yet. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by RWJC

[PeteyBOI]

20 minutes ago, RWJC said:

Agreed. Just poster the article for discussion sake. Have tried to msg Mll to join the new site but no response as of yet. 

yeah it just bothers me, a few reporters not understanding the rules have created a ton of misinformation over the past few years... last couples year people were complaining about vegas, but having 10+million in LTIRETIRED players on your roster doesnt mean you are cheating anything, their cap just like any together player count against the cap which is why it looks bad... but the total amount of salary always remains below the upper limit... even with TBL it was all within the rules, but it was definetely shady business. the whole timing of the whole thing was surely engineered to create 10 million in space that year for the playoffs. a reporter got it wrong though, and now many think being above the cap is cheating, its not.

[Coconuts]

Doesn't seem like much of a problem, they should just let him play out most of the season in the AHL though. First round picks can benefit from AHL time and if they want him to develop into more than a bottom six player they'd be better off putting him in an environment where he can play top six minutes and where he can play on special teams, Abbotsford is that environment. 

[RWJC]

Totally agree. So much hype and pressure surrounding the guy too. Let him catch up to expectation, including his own. Can’t believe people already labelling him a bust. Impatient.