Hamas attacking Israel

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

@RomanPer what would happen to Israel if they “turned the other cheek” to these terrorist attacks? IMHAO they’d cease to exist if they didn’t fight back against HAMAS.  But you clearly know more about this situation than most here. Israel has to respond and it must be significant, no? 

Israel has to protect its citizens. Full stop. 
 

On the other hand, Israel needs to look at its recent policies that have stoked this bloody backlash. 
 

Hamas is simply using the suffering of those on the Strip to attack Israel as a proxy of Iran. 
 

Sure, there are genuine problems for the Palestinians and I get that but killing others in order alleviate your own suffering is a fool’s errand. It will accomplish nothing close to what they want. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

Israel has to protect its citizens. Full stop. 
 

On the other hand, Israel needs to look at its recent policies that have stoked this bloody backlash. 
 

Hamas is simply using the suffering of those on the Strip to attack Israel as a proxy of Iran. 
 

Sure, there are genuine problems for the Palestinians and I get that but killing others in order alleviate your own suffering is a fool’s errand. It will accomplish nothing close to what they want. 

It appears these HAMAS people are touched. 

Can the Israelis eliminate HAMAS and the threat?  
What is the cure to such a disease? 

[Sharpshooter]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It appears these HAMAS people are touched. 

Can the Israelis eliminate HAMAS and the threat?  
What is the cure to such a disease? 

In my humblest opinion, it’s freedom and prosperity for the average Palestinian living in Gaza Strip. 
 

Peace and prosperity for them is peace and security for Israel. 
 

That freedom includes freedom from the clutches of Hamas. 
 

When a people have been ‘drinking dirt’ for so long, they’ll latch onto the one that offers ‘mud’, even though what they crave and need is ‘water’. 
 

 

[UnkNuk]

35 minutes ago, nuckin_futz said:

I'm a little stunned at how Hamas was able to pull off an attack of this magnitude with Israeli Intelligence apparently unaware.

 

Pressure will be on Bibi to do something big. I suppose the biggest thing he could do would be a ground invasion of Gaza.

 

Putting on my tinfoil conspiracy hat for a second:

 

Is it possible Israeli Intelligence did know about the attack but chose to let it happen in order to justify whatever it is that Israel is about to do to the Gaza Strip?

 

Otherwise, yes, it is very surprising that an attack of this magnitude wasn't picked up by Israeli Intelligence beforehand.

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, UnkNuk said:

 

Putting on my tinfoil conspiracy hat for a second:

 

Is it possible Israeli Intelligence did know about the attack but chose to let it happen in order to justify whatever it is that Israel is about to do to the Gaza Strip?

 

Otherwise, yes, it is very surprising that an attack of this magnitude wasn't picked up by Israeli Intelligence beforehand.

 

I'd say it's kinda sorta possible.

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, UnkNuk said:

 

Putting on my tinfoil conspiracy hat for a second:

 

Is it possible Israeli Intelligence did know about the attack but chose to let it happen in order to justify whatever it is that Israel is about to do to the Gaza Strip?

 

Otherwise, yes, it is very surprising that an attack of this magnitude wasn't picked up by Israeli Intelligence beforehand.

What we need less of nowadays are conspiracy theories. 

 

I don’t think Bibi’s government would be so short-sighted. Eventually truths come to the surface. Everyone, if that was the case, would be hung, ruined and imprisoned. 
 

 

[Sharpshooter]

1 minute ago, nuckin_futz said:

 

I'd say it's kinda sorta possible.

Doubtful. This would take way too many people to pull off, and it would take only one person to blow the whistle. 
 

Again, it was a failure, likely not a nefarious plot. 

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, Sharpshooter said:

Doubtful. This would take way too many people to pull off, and it would take only one person to blow the whistle. 
 

Again, it was a failure, likely not a nefarious plot. 

 

OK but how does the CIA not pick up anything? MI5, CSIS etc? Think of how many people it took Hamas to pull this off. The planning, the finances involved, the number of people involved etc. No one picked up on this? There are literally agencies with branches that do nothing but track Hamas and Hezbollah.

[Ryan Strome]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

It appears these HAMAS people are touched. 

Can the Israelis eliminate HAMAS and the threat?  
What is the cure to such a disease? 

Have you considered maybe stop occupying Palestine?

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

 

OK but how does the CIA not pick up anything? MI5, CSIS etc? Think of how many people it took Hamas to pull this off. The planning, the finances involved, the number of people involved etc. No one picked up on this? There are literally agencies with branches that do nothing but track Hamas and Hezbollah.

I don’t know. Maybe info will come out eventually? One thing I’ve read over the years is that most Agencies rely moreso, nowadays, on cyber intelligence, rather than assets on the ground. This may be an example of how that shift led to multiple Agencies’ failures. 
 

No doubt Iran helped out in the orchestration. 
 

 

[Ryan Strome]

13 minutes ago, UnkNuk said:

 

Putting on my tinfoil conspiracy hat for a second:

 

Is it possible Israeli Intelligence did know about the attack but chose to let it happen in order to justify whatever it is that Israel is about to do to the Gaza Strip?

 

Otherwise, yes, it is very surprising that an attack of this magnitude wasn't picked up by Israeli Intelligence beforehand.

Maybe you are right because it sounds like this might turn into a full scale war with the capitulation of the Palestine.

 

“All the places that Hamas hides in, operates in, we will turn them into ruins,” Netanyahu stated. “Get out of there now.”

“What happened today has never been seen before in Israel, and I will ensure it never happens again. The entire government supports this decision. The IDF will immediately use all its power to destroy Hamas’ capabilities,” he added, warning that Israel is headed for a “difficult” war that is set to “take time.”

[Sharpshooter]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Have you considered maybe stop occupying Palestine?

That’s one aspect, for sure, but it’s a means to a security end for one party and a reason for propagation and escalation of violence for the other party. 
 

Both parties are right and wrong. 
 

Thus the quagmire. 

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

Maybe you are right because it sounds like this might turn into a full scale war with the capitulation of the Palestine.

 

“All the places that Hamas hides in, operates in, we will turn them into ruins,” Netanyahu stated. “Get out of there now.”

“What happened today has never been seen before in Israel, and I will ensure it never happens again. The entire government supports this decision. The IDF will immediately use all its power to destroy Hamas’ capabilities,” he added, warning that Israel is headed for a “difficult” war that is set to “take time.”

Link to what you italicized please. 

[Ryan Strome]

Just now, Sharpshooter said:

That’s one aspect, for sure, but it’s a means to a security end for one party and a reason for propagation and escalation of violence for the other party. 
 

Both parties are right and wrong. 
 

Thus the quagmire. 

Yeah I don't know. I sometimes wonder if you look around the world for example the Korean peninsula. Would there be peace if the Americans left? Palestine would there be peace if the Israelis left? We hear all the time. There would be no more war if the Russians left, so I just wonder if in this case the Israelis left with that end the war. Let's be realistic. Palestine or hamas could never defeat Israel in a war So if they got their country back could they be happy with a Jewish neighbour? Could a country like Canada put peacekeepers at the border for a decade or two? I think what happened was absolutely terrible and makes me sick to my stomach. But that being said, the suffering and the brutality that the Palestinians have endured also makes me sick to my stomach and very sad.

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Yeah I don't know. I sometimes wonder if you look around the world for example the Korean peninsula. Would there be peace if the Americans left? Palestine would there be peace if the Israelis left? We hear all the time. There would be no more war if the Russians left, so I just wonder if in this case the Israelis left with that end the war. Let's be realistic. Palestine or hamas could never defeat Israel in a war So if they got their country back could they be happy with a Jewish neighbour? Could a country like Canada put peacekeepers at the border for a decade or two? I think what happened was absolutely terrible and makes me sick to my stomach. But that being said, the suffering and the brutality that the Palestinians have endured also makes me sick to my stomach and very sad.

I understand your point. I don’t think all the examples are the same. 
 

Israel leaving the Strip means certain insecurity. However, and again, that occupation, among other things, is driving the violence coming out of Gaza. 
 

I think most of us empathize with both parties. 

[RomanPer]

45 minutes ago, Alflives said:

@RomanPer what would happen to Israel if they “turned the other cheek” to these terrorist attacks? IMHAO they’d cease to exist if they didn’t fight back against HAMAS.  But you clearly know more about this situation than most here. Israel has to respond and it must be significant, no? 

 

Absolutely. And Israel will respond. Like i said in my other post - peace is possible if the other side commits to it and forget about wanting to destroy Israel. Just look at Egypt and Jordan and more recently UAE. Iran before the ayatollahs was one of the closest friends and allies of Israel. But the enemies will be destroyed.

[Ryan Strome]

14 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Link to what you italicized please. 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/promising-merciless-war-on-hamas-netanyahu-says-israel-will-avenge-this-black-day/

 

It's all right there in his national address.

[Sharpshooter]

2 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Absolutely. And Israel will respond. Like i said in my other post - peace is possible if the other side commits to it and forget about wanting to destroy Israel. Just look at Egypt and Jordan and more recently UAE. Iran before the ayatollahs was one of the closest friends and allies of Israel. But the enemies will be destroyed.

The problem is that Bibi’s response will perpetuate the next major attack after this one. 
 

Something more has to be done and I hope it’s a wake up call both for Israel and for those Hamas militants that think violence will solve anything. 

Too many innocents are dying on both sides. 

 

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, Ryan Strome said:

https://www.timesofisrael.com/promising-merciless-war-on-hamas-netanyahu-says-israel-will-avenge-this-black-day/

 

It's all right there in his national address.

Thanks. Remember to link the source of things you post. 
 

Cheers. 

[RomanPer]

33 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

In my humblest opinion, it’s freedom and prosperity for the average Palestinian living in Gaza Strip. 
 

Peace and prosperity for them is peace and security for Israel. 
 

That freedom includes freedom from the clutches of Hamas. 
 

When a people have been ‘drinking dirt’ for so long, they’ll latch onto the one that offers ‘mud’, even though what they crave and need is ‘water’. 
 

 

 

The root causes of all this are in Moscow and Teheran. Cut those heads down - and suddenly peace will become possible almost everywhere in the world. Putin is interested now in more and more hot spots around the world. Watch Kosovo being next.

[Sharpshooter]

Just now, RomanPer said:

 

The root causes of all this are in Moscow and Teheran. Cut those heads down - and suddenly peace will become possible almost everywhere in the world. Putin is interested now in more and more hot spots around the world. Watch Kosovo being next.

Exactly. Couldn’t agree more. 

[nuckin_futz]

11 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

The root causes of all this are in Moscow and Teheran. Cut those heads down - and suddenly peace will become possible almost everywhere in the world. Putin is interested now in more and more hot spots around the world. Watch Kosovo being next.

 

It's almost a blessing that Iran and Saudi Arabia are mortal enemies. Saudi's are just as bad with their interference and f**kery.

[RomanPer]

Just now, nuckin_futz said:

 

It's almost a blessing that Iran and Saudi Arabia are mortal enemies. Saudi's are just as bad with their interference and f**kery.

 

Don’t disagree, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

[nuckin_futz]

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

Don’t disagree, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

 

That only works for so long. Relationships of convenience never last. Snakes revert to being snakes before too long.

[eeeeeeeeergh]

51 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Israel has to protect its citizens. Full stop. 
 

On the other hand, Israel needs to look at its recent policies that have stoked this bloody backlash. 
 

Hamas is simply using the suffering of those on the Strip to attack Israel as a proxy of Iran. 
 

Sure, there are genuine problems for the Palestinians and I get that but killing others in order alleviate your own suffering is a fool’s errand. It will accomplish nothing close to what they want. 

 

Its not just recent policies, its the IDF killing palestinian children, its settlers getting military backup from the IDF to kill and evict palestinian residents from their homes, its the result of a population being cleansed from their homes and being blockaded to the point of extreme poverty. 

 

People way overcomplicate this issue. 

 

A group of people were forcibly evicted from their homes, and they're now living under occupation/apartheid. They tried the peaceful/diplomatic approach in the 2000s and it accomplished nothing. 

 

They're angry and retaliating.

 

No it does not justify killing civilians.

 

But people and the media portray it as unexplainable violence by primitives with no justification other than a desire for bloodshed which is bloody wrong.