Where do we go from here/ Bear, do we still need him?

[kettlevalley]

Zadorov makes the defensive depth better.  But leaves us unbalanced.  

 

Alvin unloading Beau with no retention plus Bear signing a partial season contract plus the available cap plus sending down juulsen or Friedman when Bear is signed means we can fairly easily.  

 

So.....do we still need Bear to balance the left/right and give the option to split Hughes/Hronek some of the time and give a different look?  

 

Still an Interesting concept.  

[Ghostsof1915]

Maybe keep our cap space, and try and make a move at the trade deadline if there's a deal that makes sense?

Having cap flexibility is just as important. If you pay off your credit card. Do you run out and rack it back up again right away?

[snowman955]

Valid points. Hughes and Hronek will need to be rested as our team progresses . With Bear added , his familiarity with defence would be a bonus.

 

At this time , our team has an option,albeit not a familiar one, Bear can add to defence without worrying where he can fit.

 

[Comox Blaster]

It is a low risk cost to sign Bear to the rest of the season.  Keep the money in the bank for now and see what comes up as teams separate themselves in the standings over the next couple of months.  We do need to give Hughes some rest from time to time.  Having a healthy captain is more important than him running up his scoring stats in the long run.  Get ahead of teams by the third period by more than a goal and he can be given some rest, etc.  

[Hammertime]

19 minutes ago, Comox Blaster said:

It is a low risk cost to sign Bear to the rest of the season.  Keep the money in the bank for now and see what comes up as teams separate themselves in the standings over the next couple of months.  We do need to give Hughes some rest from time to time.  Having a healthy captain is more important than him running up his scoring stats in the long run.  Get ahead of teams by the third period by more than a goal and he can be given some rest, etc.  

Bears cap hit will be inflated due to games remaining all of our cap flexability will be gone just like that.

[Mando27]

Mah gawd is that Phil the Thrill's theme?

 

[Miss Korea]

20 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

Bears cap hit will be inflated due to games remaining all of our cap flexability will be gone just like that.

 

If you're not planning on using cap flexibility for defensive depth, what are you intending to use it on?

 

Bear is a legitimate NHL defender who can outperform Tyler Myers when healthy.  If some team is desperate for defence (hello Toronto) we can retain half and sell him at the deadline.  We could even barter with a 3rd team to make it 75% retention.

[Artemus]

2 hours ago, kettlevalley said:

Zadorov makes the defensive depth better.  But leaves us unbalanced.  

 

Alvin unloading Beau with no retention plus Bear signing a partial season contract plus the available cap plus sending down juulsen or Friedman when Bear is signed means we can fairly easily.  

 

So.....do we still need Bear to balance the left/right and give the option to split Hughes/Hronek some of the time and give a different look?  

 

Still an Interesting concept.  

 

With Soucy injured, we were unbalanced on the left side. Only left handed d-men were Hughes and Cole.

We, for the most part, had Friedman (a right handed d-man) playing on the left side.

Zadorov (a left handed d-man) now balances out the two sides until Soucy returns.

After Soucy returns, we might see Cole, Soucy or Zadorov get some time on the right side.

 

Juulsen is playing well enough to stay with the big club. He appears to improve his play with each successive game.

 

Friedman is a reasonable replacement for Kyle Burroughs, who moved to San Jose this summer.

 

Ethan Bear, based on his play last year, would be in the mix for the right-side 3rd pairing. But Ethan hasn't played since last Spring and will need time to get back up to the NHL pace.

Apparently his agent was, this summer, asking for a multi-million dollar and multi-year contract. Based on our questionable need for another 3D right side defenceman, I would only sign him for the one year and for a dollar amount that you could totally bury in the AHL. Ethan and his agent may not accept this. PA does seem to like this player though, so anything is possible.

[Chon derry]

34 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

Bears cap hit will be inflated due to games remaining all of our cap flexability will be gone just like that.

Prorated the 1 mil figure I keep hearing he would sign for, if he’s healthy soon and comes back in early Jan? it would be give  or take 600k. That’s not to much. 

[EdgarM]

Usually when a season ends and a player like Bear or Kessel remains UNSIGNED? There is usually a reason for that, just sayin. 

[Hammertime]

Just now, Miss Korea said:

 

If you're not planning on using cap flexibility for defensive depth, what are you intending to use it on?

 

Bear is a legitimate NHL defender who can outperform Tyler Myers when healthy.  If some team is desperate for defence (hello Toronto) we can retain half and sell him at the deadline.  We could even barter with a 3rd team to make it 75% retention.

We need a pwf. 

 

Hughes Hronek

Soucy Myers

Zad Cole 

 

Is a fine D corps. We have good depth in Hirose, Wolly, Friedman, Juulson, McWard.

 

We need a middle 6 fwd with some teeth Miller cant do it all. 

[Hammertime]

9 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Usually when a season ends and a player like Bear or Kessel remains UNSIGNED? There is usually a reason for that, just sayin. 

 

Bear was injured playing for team Canada.

[EdgarM]

5 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

 

Bear was injured playing for team Canada.

If we really wanted him, he would have been signed by now.

[aGENT]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

 

If you're not planning on using cap flexibility for defensive depth, what are you intending to use it on?

 

Bear is a legitimate NHL defender who can outperform Tyler Myers when healthy.  If some team is desperate for defence (hello Toronto) we can retain half and sell him at the deadline.  We could even barter with a 3rd team to make it 75% retention.

I like splitting it 3 ways myself. We retain $2m, 3rd club retains $2m, and the team he goes to pays $2m (prorated). Would only cost the 3rd team ~$150k-$200k of actual salary... peanuts. Worth what, a 4th or 5th?

 

We clear $4m probably add a mid pick or something and go shopping.

 

As I said in the Zadorov thread, Bear +cap/opportunity >>>>> Myers.

Edited December 2, 2023 by aGENT

[Alflives]

27 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

If we really wanted him, he would have been signed by now.

He’s still not ready to play yet though. Any team that signs him will immediately send him to the farm for a conditioning stint. 

[aGENT]

29 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

If we really wanted him, he would have been signed by now.

Why would any team sign a guy that can't play yet, and either have unusable cap on their books, or deal with the headache of LTIR... For nothing?

[Miss Korea]

55 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

We need a pwf. 

 

Hughes Hronek

Soucy Myers

Zad Cole 

 

Is a fine D corps. We have good depth in Hirose, Wolly, Friedman, Juulson, McWard.

 

We need a middle 6 fwd with some teeth Miller cant do it all. 

 

A power forward, eh?  Those do not grow from trees.  You'd have to find a team that has given up and willing to trade such an asset for picks.  And the price will be significant if he's a good player.

 

There are guys on teams that haven't given up yet.  Evander Kane is likely available.  Lawson Crouse is likely not (but if he is, he will cost an arm and a leg).  Tyler Bertuzzi is likely not available.

 

That leaves with you with free agents and Josh Anderson, who has been hot garbage this season - Tristan Jarry has more goals than him.  You have... Eric Staal who is washed.  You have... Corey Perry!  He is technically available.

 

The cost of power forwards is extremely high.  Ryan O'Reilly cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and a prospect (+Hockey Gaud) as a rental.  Tyler Bertuzzi cost a 1st and a 5th as a rental.  Tanner Jeannot cost Tampa their entire draft class.  Just keep that price tag in mind.

[Alflives]

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

A power forward, eh?  Those do not grow from trees.  You'd have to find a team that has given up and willing to trade such an asset for picks.  And the price will be significant if he's a good player.

 

There are guys on teams that haven't given up yet.  Evander Kane is likely available.  Lawson Crouse is likely not (but if he is, he will cost an arm and a leg).  Tyler Bertuzzi is likely not available.

 

That leaves with you with free agents and Josh Anderson, who has been hot garbage this season - Tristan Jarry has more goals than him.  You have... Eric Staal who is washed.  You have... Corey Perry!  He is technically available.

 

The cost of power forwards is extremely high.  Ryan O'Reilly cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and a prospect (+Hockey Gaud) as a rental.  Tyler Bertuzzi cost a 1st and a 5th as a rental.  Tanner Jeannot cost Tampa their entire draft class.  Just keep that price tag in mind.

If it meant getting rid of our garden gnome in a straight up deal I’d be happy with Josh Anderson. 

[CaptainCanuck12]

We could always use more NHL quality depth on D.  But something that Vegas game made obvious is that we also really need another forward or two who can play a heavy game, and not wilt under playoff-level intensity.  I'd be concerned that if we add Bear or any other depth D, that we wouldn't have the cap space to add another forward like that.

[kilgore]

46 minutes ago, CaptainCanuck12 said:

We could always use more NHL quality depth on D.  But something that Vegas game made obvious is that we also really need another forward or two who can play a heavy game, and not wilt under playoff-level intensity.  I'd be concerned that if we add Bear or any other depth D, that we wouldn't have the cap space to add another forward like that.

 

In Benning Allvin we trust.

[Phil_314]

I'm fine with seeing how the pieces fall on the blueline after Zadorov's played some games and Soucy comes back.  If the worry is that we'll burn out Hughes and Hronek and we need to shelter these "smaller" D against playoff teams' giant forwards, we can always separate them (e.g. Hughes with one of Cole/ Soucy/ Zadorov, another with Hronek and the 3rd can play on the left with Myers).  Bear doesn't add the size that would help us battle against the other teams' big guys, but he would be a great option to keep in our back pocket since it sounds like he does want to sign here.  Agreed with adding a gritty forward though, and I wonder if we can marinate Podkolzin in Abbotsford to the point that he can be that top-6 wing we can add for free.

Regarding a bigger winger, I'd argue that it doesn't even need to be a premium power forward (or about adding a talented big body as someone like Anderson in Montreal doesn't use his size and tools for much), just even someone like Nathan Bastian in NJ who routinely crashes the crease to collapse the defense and does his damage from between the hash marks.  Other options for cheap could be Duhaime from Minnesota (fast, good shot) and Nick Foligno (getting older but pending UFA from Chicago who might want the chance to play on a playoff team), but as long as guys like them, along with Miller and Lafferty lead the charge, we could be a tougher team to play against just because we keep our foot on the gas pedal and play aggressively.

    

[Gawdzukes]

3 hours ago, EdgarM said:

Usually when a season ends and a player like Bear or Kessel remains UNSIGNED? There is usually a reason for that, just sayin. 

 

If we do sign him I think people will be surprised at how poor he is if he's expected to be part of winning hockey team. It was pretty easy last year with no expectations when he was contributing to one of the worst defense's in the history of the NHL.

[Pears]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

If it meant getting rid of our garden gnome in a straight up deal I’d be happy with Josh Anderson. 

*Whispers* Anderson has another year and makes $600K more than Garland. 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Pears said:

*Whispers* Anderson has another year and makes $600K more than Garland. 

Yup. And he’s the far superior player. If Garland doesn’t have the pick (95% of his time on ice) what does he do to contribute to winning? Anderson is big, fast, skilled, tough, and smart. Plus he’s proven he can play big minutes with top players. 

[Pears]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Yup. And he’s the far superior player. If Garland doesn’t have the pick (95% of his time on ice) what does he do to contribute to winning? Anderson is big, fast, skilled, tough, and smart. Plus he’s proven he can play big minutes with top players. 

The only thing Anderson has on Garland is size. Their career stats are very similar so to say Anderson is far superior is disingenuous and an incredibly lazy take.