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[Proposal] Building Incredible FWD Depth


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To VAN:

Buchnevich

 

To STL:

Garland

Lekkerimaki

Conditional 3rd Round Pick (becomes a 2nd round pick if Canucks make the playoffs and advance to the 2nd round, becomes a 1st round pick if Canucks make the finals)

 

Canucks acquire a bonafide top 6 forward with size on a solid value contract.  With Buchnevich, Boeser, Kuzmenko, Hoglander, Mikheyev, etc... Lekkerimaki would have a very tough time breaking into the Canucks roster.  Wingers are also easier to acquire.

St Louis acquire a top tier prospect in Lekkerimaki, a serviceable middle 6 winger in Garland with great underlying numbers, and a pick that could range from a 3rd to a 1st

 

VAN signs Phil "the thrill" Kessel to round out the forward group.

 

Buchnevich-Miller-Boeser (matchup line with lots of size and strength)

Kessel-Petey-Kuzmenko (provides offence -- Kessel brings some leadership to this line and shows what it takes to win a championship to Petey and Kuz)

Mikheyev-Suter-Hoglander (one of the best 3rd lines in the entire NHL -- will be an incredible shutdown line that can generate lots of offence too)

Joshua-Blueger-Lafferty/Aman/Karlsson (fantastic 4th line unit)

 

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Buchnevich would be great to have, and if he's scoring 25-30 goals for STL, I think he could be a 30+ goal scorer on the Miller-Boeser line. Really don't like giving up Grade A prospects though. I understand VAN would have to give in order to get. 

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@Elias Pettersson made this proposal the other day but offered significantly more.  You are trying to completely rip off St. Louis here.  Pavel Buchnevich is one of the most cost-efficient wingers in the league.  You're offering a disgruntled winger, a decent (but not blue chip) prospect, and some conditional pick.  That's nowhere near good enough.

 

 

On 12/4/2023 at 2:49 PM, Miss Korea said:

 

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I have him on my fantasy team.  I'd be over the moon if this happened.  He's got some durability issues, though.

 

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53 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

@Elias Pettersson made this proposal the other day but offered significantly more.  You are trying to completely rip off St. Louis here.  Pavel Buchnevich is one of the most cost-efficient wingers in the league.  You're offering a disgruntled winger, a decent (but not blue chip) prospect, and some conditional pick.  That's nowhere near good enough.

 

 

 

 

This was his proposal:

 

To Vancouver:

Pavel Buchnevich

 

To St. Louis:

Conor Garland

Nils Hoglander

Aidan McDonough

 

So mine that includes Lekkerimaki who is among the top goal scorers in the SHL at only 19 years old, and a conditional pick that could be upto a 1st round pick is significantly less??? 

 

I'd argue Lekkerimaki has a ton of value.  He's 19 years old playing against men in the SHL and doing a damn good job of it.  He's not the Lekkerimaki of 2022-23. 

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1 minute ago, HKSR said:

 

This was his proposal:

 

To Vancouver:

Pavel Buchnevich

 

To St. Louis:

Conor Garland

Nils Hoglander

Aidan McDonough

 

So mine that includes Lekkerimaki who is among the top goal scorers in the SHL at only 19 years old, and a conditional pick that could be upto a 1st round pick is significantly less??? 

 

I'd argue Lekkerimaki has a ton of value.  He's 19 years old playing against men in the SHL and doing a damn good job of it.  He's not the Lekkerimaki of 2022-23. 

 

He later figured a guaranteed 1st round pick was absolutely necessary.  You have made it VERY conditional.  St. Louis can get a much bigger haul than what you're offering.

 

Jonathan Lekkerimäki is a good prospect.  I think he has restored any value lost from last year.  But I also think he hasn't elevated it beyond that.  It would likely take another good year of hockey.

 

Personally, I think Buchnevich is one of the most underrated players in the NHL and I feel this trade offer doesn't truly reflect that.

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50 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

He later figured a guaranteed 1st round pick was absolutely necessary.  You have made it VERY conditional.  St. Louis can get a much bigger haul than what you're offering.

 

Jonathan Lekkerimäki is a good prospect.  I think he has restored any value lost from last year.  But I also think he hasn't elevated it beyond that.  It would likely take another good year of hockey.

 

Personally, I think Buchnevich is one of the most underrated players in the NHL and I feel this trade offer doesn't truly reflect that.

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

 

But IMO, Lekkerimaki being a 15th OA pick just 1 year ago and putting up the numbers he is in the SHL puts his value above a 1st round pick.  Prospects of this calibre are rarely traded this soon after being drafted because they're extremely valuable in a cap world.  Especially one that is on the upswing this season.

 

Other names from that draft that were drafted slightly above or below Lekkerimaki include Bichsel, Nazar, McGroarty, Kemell, Geekie, etc.  All of those guys carry a TON of value too.  To be included in a package that has a conditional pick that could be a 1st, or at least a very good chance to be a 2nd, on top of a middle 6 forward with underlying analytics like Garland?  That's a very good package.

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33 minutes ago, HKSR said:

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it.

 

But IMO, Lekkerimaki being a 15th OA pick just 1 year ago and putting up the numbers he is in the SHL puts his value above a 1st round pick.  Prospects of this calibre are rarely traded this soon after being drafted because they're extremely valuable in a cap world.  Especially one that is on the upswing this season.

 

Other names from that draft that were drafted slightly above or below Lekkerimaki include Bichsel, Nazar, McGroarty, Kemell, Geekie, etc.  All of those guys carry a TON of value too.  To be included in a package that has a conditional pick that could be a 1st, or at least a very good chance to be a 2nd, on top of a middle 6 forward with underlying analytics like Garland?  That's a very good package.

 

If your valuation of Lekkerimäki is correct (which you probably are) and aligns with what management thinks of him, it makes little sense to try and trade him away.  I do not believe his potential on this team translates well into a valuable trade piece.  It makes more sense to trade more tangible assets (like picks and current NHL players) than someone who you've scouted and have tracked his development for over two years now.

 

And like how you think I'm underrating Lekkerimäki, you are definitely underrating Buchnevich.  He was an elite player even when he was in New York.

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9 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

If your valuation of Lekkerimäki is correct (which you probably are) and aligns with what management thinks of him, it makes little sense to try and trade him away.  I do not believe his potential on this team translates well into a valuable trade piece.  It makes more sense to trade more tangible assets (like picks and current NHL players) than someone who you've scouted and have tracked his development for over two years now.

 

And like how you think I'm underrating Lekkerimäki, you are definitely underrating Buchnevich.  He was an elite player even when he was in New York.

I don't think I'm really underrating Buchnevich.  I feel he's worth a lot, that's why I think it would cost something significant, and something that would hurt for us to lose -- Lekkerimaki.  Honestly, I think losing Lek hurts more than losing Hoglander.

 

The only reason I say we could trade Lek is because he'd have to fight for a spot in the top 6 (which is the only place he belongs).  He would basically need to out compete Buchnevich (assuming Lek isn't traded in this deal), Boeser, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, and Hoglander.  Our forward group in the top 6 is pretty strong, that's why it's inherently difficult for guys like Klimovich, Podkolzin, Lekkerimaki, etc to break through.  Not a bad thing for the franchise as a whole, but much more difficult for these young guys to find an opportunity.

 

I think maybe the condition on the draft pick could be lightened a little  -- 3rd becomes a 2nd if Canucks make the playoffs, and becomes a 1st if they make it to the 2nd round and win at least 2 games.

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20 hours ago, HKSR said:

I don't think I'm really underrating Buchnevich.  I feel he's worth a lot, that's why I think it would cost something significant, and something that would hurt for us to lose -- Lekkerimaki.  Honestly, I think losing Lek hurts more than losing Hoglander.

 

The only reason I say we could trade Lek is because he'd have to fight for a spot in the top 6 (which is the only place he belongs).  He would basically need to out compete Buchnevich (assuming Lek isn't traded in this deal), Boeser, Kuzmenko, Mikheyev, and Hoglander.  Our forward group in the top 6 is pretty strong, that's why it's inherently difficult for guys like Klimovich, Podkolzin, Lekkerimaki, etc to break through.  Not a bad thing for the franchise as a whole, but much more difficult for these young guys to find an opportunity.

 

I think maybe the condition on the draft pick could be lightened a little  -- 3rd becomes a 2nd if Canucks make the playoffs, and becomes a 1st if they make it to the 2nd round and win at least 2 games.

 

We're only likely to keep one of Boeser and Kuzmenko imo, I think that takes care of itself. Mikheyev is also only signed for two seasons after this one, hardly a longer-term roadblock. Boeser, Kuzmenko, Garland, and Mikheyev will be pending UFA's sooner than later and the time is going to fly by. There will be room for Lekkerimaki.

 

Of the guys currently in our top six the ones I'd venture to say stay are: Pettersson, Miller, Boeser, and Hoglander (if he cements a spot). I'm not interested in trading Lekkerimaki because he'd be a potential top six guy on an ELC, or just coming off an ELC. Gonna need cost effective youth to step in as guys like Boeser, Pettersson, Demko, and eventually Hughes go on to their next deals. 

 

We need some of the younger guys in Klimovich, Hoglander, Podz, Lekkerimaki, Raty, and Bains to turn into something. 

 

It's one thing management has going for them right now, a lack of longer-term deals on the books. 

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A few thoughts:  

 

1. Buchnevich only has two years left on his deal and so for me, trading any combination of Hoglander (who has taken a leap this season and seems to be growing his game), Lekkerimaki (who has looked very promising), a 1st (Benning de ja vu?), etc., just doesn't make sense.  

 

2. We need to be realistic as to where the Canucks are as a team.  Yes, we had gotten off to a 10-3-2 start or whatever it was, and yes, even I started drawing comparisons between the current Canucks team and the "Golden era" 2010-2012 teams.  Unfortunately, we aren't anywhere near that.  We are a lot closer to 2006-07 / 2014-15 than we are 2010-2012.  At best, we are 2008-09 / 2012-13.  Even with Buchnevich, we aren't on the same level as teams like NYR, Boston, Colorado, and Vegas.  From a points percentage standpoint, the Canucks are about 7th-8th right now in the NHL.   

 

To me, it makes absolutely zero sense to be trading multiple young assets (picks and/or prospects) for a guy that will only be here for two years. 


So, from my perspective, it makes far more sense to continue to draft and develop well while filling the pipeline.  Rutherford and Alvin have done an excellent job with this so far and they should continue doing it.  Sign guys like Hronek and Zadorov long term. See what they can do with Pettersson.  Give Hoglander more opportunities.  And so forth.

 

Myers dropping from the books next season will give us some options.  

 

Yes - I agree that there comes a time when a team needs to "make a push" and trade picks/prospects for an elite piece to make a run for the cup, but the Canucks aren't there yet in my opinion.  The last 10 games have clearly shown this.   So even with me, with all of my previous Rasmus Andersson ideas, I just don't think we're in a position where we should be doing this.  

 

Speaking of Petey, I'm almost at a point where I'd be willing to tell him to kindly fuck off if he's not willing to sign a reasonable deal.  Injuries or not, Pettersson has shown the last 10-11 games as to why he's not on the same level as the true elite players of the game.  If Petey is playing injured, then he's being selfish by "trying to play for a contract."  If he's not injured, then it further goes to show why he can't be trusted being a franchise player.  

 

Petey's lacklustre play at the start of the 2021-2022 was a massive reason why the team stumbled out of the gate.  I'm not sure what's going on with Petey but maybe he needs a guy like Will Smith to slap him.  

 

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On 12/7/2023 at 2:31 PM, Miss Korea said:

 

If your valuation of Lekkerimäki is correct (which you probably are) and aligns with what management thinks of him, it makes little sense to try and trade him away.  I do not believe his potential on this team translates well into a valuable trade piece.  It makes more sense to trade more tangible assets (like picks and current NHL players) than someone who you've scouted and have tracked his development for over two years now.

 

And like how you think I'm underrating Lekkerimäki, you are definitely underrating Buchnevich.  He was an elite player even when he was in New York.

 

Allvin isn't trading any of his first round picks.  Especially when they are Swedish.  We are building around Lekkerimaki and Willander.  And of course Petey.  And now Hoglander has come into his own.  None of these players will get traded.  Even D-Petey will be here soon.  

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