Theo5789 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Staal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integra250 Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Matthews, a two way forward??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Jordan Staal? How does a player who’s a -14 with only 30 points and only plays 15 minutes a night get nominated for the Selke trophy? What a joke. Auston Matthews? He’s not even a regular penalty killer. Didn’t even start killing penalties until this season. Petey should be ahead of both of them. And it’s not even close. This was Petey’s best year defensively by far. And the team was one of the best in the league too. He should have easily been a finalist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 (edited) Barkov's gonna step in and rattle off a few more Selke wins, he's the guy to beat going forward Maybe Hischier gets back into the mix too if he can stay healthy, Pettersson may get one down the road too Wouldn't be shocked to see Kopitar win another Edited May 5 by Coconuts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theo5789 Posted May 5 Author Share Posted May 5 30 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Jordan Staal? How does a player who’s a -14 with only 30 points and only plays 15 minutes a night get nominated for the Selke trophy? What a joke. Auston Matthews? He’s not even a regular penalty killer. Didn’t even start killing penalties until this season. Petey should be ahead of both of them. And it’s not even close. This was Petey’s best year defensively by far. And the team was one of the best in the league too. He should have easily been a finalist. Something tells me you might be a bit biased about Petey! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Matthews is an amazing defensive forward, but he doesn't regularly play on the PK. That alone should disqualify him IMO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 49 minutes ago, Integra250 said: Matthews, a two way forward??? Moreso than folks give him credit for tbh, not enough to win though Barkov averaged nearly two minutes of PK time a game, Staal averaged just over two minutes, Matthews averaged just under a minute Reinhart actually PK'd more than Matthews, averaging just over two minutes a night while putting up 50+ goals Matthews was the forward with the most shot blocks though if I'm not mistaken, with 93, as well as one of the better faceoff guys in the league with 705 wins and a 53.45% He was also second in takeaways this season with 85 https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=2023-2024+nhl+takeaway+leaders https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/seasons/nhl-forwards-stats.html Thing is, he doesn't PK as much as the others, which is probably why he'll lose to Barkov 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 As for Pettersson, he'll need to improve if he wants to win a Selke, but he took steps Averaged 1:22 a night of PK, blocked 68 shots Only 50 takeaways though https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=elias+petterson+takeaways+2023-2024 He'll also need to take and win more draws, this season was an improvement but we'll see if it's a new norm or not going forward Pettersson won 406 and lost 393, Barkov won 630 and lost 470 I'm a little shocked Kopitar or O'Reilly weren't nominated instead of Staal, Staal's a real headscratcher Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 1 hour ago, Coconuts said: As for Pettersson, he'll need to improve if he wants to win a Selke, but he took steps Averaged 1:22 a night of PK, blocked 68 shots Only 50 takeaways though https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=elias+petterson+takeaways+2023-2024 He'll also need to take and win more draws, this season was an improvement but we'll see if it's a new norm or not going forward Pettersson won 406 and lost 393, Barkov won 630 and lost 470 I'm a little shocked Kopitar or O'Reilly weren't nominated instead of Staal, Staal's a real headscratcher Staal is definitely more of a reputation vote at this point and I think it's partially making up for his lack of nominations earlier in his career. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Based on the finalists, I fully expect Barkov to win it. I'm definitely a bit surprised to see Matthews and Staal over Kopitar or Eriksson Ek for example. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted May 5 Share Posted May 5 Just now, Diamonds said: Staal is definitely more of a reputation vote at this point and I think it's partially making up for his lack of nominations earlier in his career. He's still a very good defensive player despite his age, but he seems out of place as a finalist "The rugged veteran was a key cog in Carolina's No. 1-ranked penalty kill, logging the most shorthanded minutes of the team's forwards. Staal also ranked sixth among full-time centers in defensive goals above replacement and fourth in faceoff percentage among players who took at least 1,000 draws this campaign. He took the ninth-most defensive zone draws in the NHL but ranked second among all skaters in five-on-five shot-attempt percentage." https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2907073/barkov-matthews-staal-named-selke-trophy-finalists Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snoop Hogg Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 I hope that whoever nominated Staal donates their brain for scientific research after they pass away, so we can find out what went wrong with their thought process. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Diamonds Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 10 hours ago, Coconuts said: He's still a very good defensive player despite his age, but he seems out of place as a finalist "The rugged veteran was a key cog in Carolina's No. 1-ranked penalty kill, logging the most shorthanded minutes of the team's forwards. Staal also ranked sixth among full-time centers in defensive goals above replacement and fourth in faceoff percentage among players who took at least 1,000 draws this campaign. He took the ninth-most defensive zone draws in the NHL but ranked second among all skaters in five-on-five shot-attempt percentage." https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2907073/barkov-matthews-staal-named-selke-trophy-finalists I don't disagree that Staal is still very strong defensively, and he is one of the best faceoff guys in the league, but as you said he does seem out of place as a finalist. He's still a fantastic vet, but I think there were more deserving finalists this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-AJ- Posted May 6 Share Posted May 6 23 hours ago, Coconuts said: As for Pettersson, he'll need to improve if he wants to win a Selke, but he took steps Averaged 1:22 a night of PK, blocked 68 shots Only 50 takeaways though https://www.statmuse.com/nhl/ask?q=elias+petterson+takeaways+2023-2024 He'll also need to take and win more draws, this season was an improvement but we'll see if it's a new norm or not going forward Pettersson won 406 and lost 393, Barkov won 630 and lost 470 I'm a little shocked Kopitar or O'Reilly weren't nominated instead of Staal, Staal's a real headscratcher Massive improvement on the draws for Petey. Last year, I think he was among the best in either blocked shots or takeaway (Can't remember which), but he maybe fell off this year. I have it on my list to do an analysis of Selke contenders using many stats you mention here, but I keep putting it off. It's fun because I very often uncover surprisingly good defensive forwards (like Matthews and Marner, for example). 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 (edited) This one's easy, Barkov and it's really not even close. What's up with the Austin Mathews and Staal as the finalists? Were the writers out all night partying, and other then Barkov just throw darts on a board? Not totally sure. Don't think they necessarily need to lead their team on the first unit PK, but for sure it's a valid consideration. The award is about who can play at a high level, and shut down the best of the best. Winning draws isn't as big a metric as it needs to be either - it automatically puts players like Stone, Marner and Lehtinen at a bigger disadvantage then they necessarily should have. Wingers have a much tougher time getting the attention. And as we know, just because you have a face off stud (Horvat), it doesn't mean they back-check all day long, block shots, and pick-off pucks/passes with ease. Staal that's his job so understand that. Mathews is a head scratcher at face value given he's not a usual suspect. Know that they've worked hard on him (and other guys on that team), to defend. And that he's going to be either playing against the best a team has, or the best shut down line a team has. So some merit and love should be given but a finalist seems a bit much. As for EP, he's not there yet. Responsible defensively, absolutely. Millers line was tasked to play against the best of the best at home 5 x 5 this season. Until that changes, or unless he's part of a shutdown line don't think we will see him up there with the usual suspects. We know that looks like, Kesler with a variety of wing mates, was a beast in our zone, and against the best of the world. In 2010 he was by far the USA's best all around forward, and Canada could barely contain him. When he was on the ice he shut us down, took the puck and set up a play or had a scoring chance, over and over again. That's Selke. It's more than just stat's for sure. Eye balls too. Kopitar and O'Reilly. Wonder where they end up. Two guys with a well earned and deserved reputation for emphasis on defending well. It for sure doesn't matter a lot about points either. Gainey. Guy Carboneau. Others too. Watching a 20/20 guy shut down the leagues best stars, and post an impressive plus minus compared to his peers on his own team while doing so, is fun to watch. And annoying if you're playing against that. Edited May 7 by IBatch 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 19 hours ago, -AJ- said: Massive improvement on the draws for Petey. Last year, I think he was among the best in either blocked shots or takeaway (Can't remember which), but he maybe fell off this year. I have it on my list to do an analysis of Selke contenders using many stats you mention here, but I keep putting it off. It's fun because I very often uncover surprisingly good defensive forwards (like Matthews and Marner, for example). It's virtually impossible to watch all the games. Stats have evolved, it for sure helps with this. Only tells a bit of the story though. Nice thing is you get to compare them to the players you do know, and have seen, and add subjectivity. All awards certainly aren't created equal. A lot have been won by the slimmest of margins, and a lot have completely run away with it. Will be interesting to see how this one went. Suspect Barkov ran away with first, second and third votes. And that there will be a modest group of guys who were close, and quite a few overall that received at least one vote. Including both JT Miller and EP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bh90 Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 first....i hate the Leafs but i'm with Matthews being on here. he's good defensively, and when on the ice he controls the play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickenspear Posted May 7 Share Posted May 7 Jordan Staal? Funny way of spelling JT Miller... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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