Makar becomes fastest defenseman to 250 points

[Coconuts]

Pretty nuts considering who he's ahead of, dude is something else.

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Coconuts

[Coconuts]

There are caveats to this accomplishment, certainly, but it's pretty nuts nonetheless. 

[King Heffy]

He should win a Hart trophy at some point.

[HuggyCareBear]

I never thought I'd see any defenceman beat Bobby Orr but wow.. 

[Miss Korea]

he's alright

 

[gwarrior]

Wow. That's just crazy.

[Strawbone]

14 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

he's alright

 

 

Look at those PK numbers. The guy is trash.

[The Lock]

I remember when he was drafted how people said he was small.

 

Some people are going to be eating their words for a long time to come. lol

[NHLer]

"Bustaroo" - Alf (probably) 

[tas]

probably the best player on the planet. 

[Jess]

He's started off like a rocket, but Orr took off a little slower than Makar. Not willing to legitimately compare Makar to Orr until he scores something like 120 points or something. Orr had only barely broken out by the time he hit 250 points. Almost 0% chance Makar will match his pace to 400 points. In his first four seasons, Orr had 256 points in 250 games. By the end of his 5th season, he had 395 points in 328 games thanks to his 139-point season.

 

Nonetheless, Makar could be the greatest defenseman since Lidstrom. We'll see how many Norris trophies he wins. I wouldn't be shocked if he wins at least five.

 

For reference, Hughes is at 245 points in 286 games, so he's on pace to hit the 250-point mark at 292 games.

[I.Am.Ironman]

12 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

He's started off like a rocket, but Orr took off a little slower than Makar. Not willing to legitimately compare Makar to Orr until he scores something like 120 points or something. Orr had only barely broken out by the time he hit 250 points. Almost 0% chance Makar will match his pace to 400 points. In his first four seasons, Orr had 256 points in 250 games. By the end of his 5th season, he had 395 points in 328 games thanks to his 139-point season.

 

Nonetheless, Makar could be the greatest defenseman since Lidstrom. We'll see how many Norris trophies he wins. I wouldn't be shocked if he wins at least five.

 

For refernce, Hughes is at 245 points in 286 games, so he's on pace to hit the 250-point mark at 292 games.

 

The question then becomes how fast would Hughes have reached 250 playing on the Avs, or Makar on the Canucks? I reckon it would be pretty close. 

[Bounce000]

Hah Flyers…

[Jess]

4 minutes ago, Bounce000 said:

Hah Flyers…

 

To be fair, a lot of people had Patrick pegged as the 1st overall and it was the Devils who went slightly off the board to pick Hischier. Probably almost every GM would've picked Patrick at #2.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

 

The question then becomes how fast would Hughes have reached 250 playing on the Avs, or Makar on the Canucks? I reckon it would be pretty close. 

 

I was waiting for someone to mention Hughes tbh. But it's a good question, it probably would be pretty close but I reckon he'd be a bit behind. Makar is as good as Hughes in all the areas Hughes excels in imo, but Hughes doesn't have Makar's shot and that's key. Makar has a superior toolbox. 

 

Hughes is an assist machine, so is Makar, but Makar's offense directly results in more goals than Hughes by virtue of his scoring more goals. Hughes has scored 26 goals in 286 games, Makar has scored 67 in 241 games. Put Hughes on the Avs and I'm not convinced he puts up more assists than Makar, but he likely scores fewer goals.

 

Hughes puts up more assists than Makar but Makar's roughly on par or better imo when you factor in games played. For example Hughes put up 69 assists in 78 games last season, Makar put up 49 in 60 games, give Makar another 18 games and he probably outpaces Hughes imo. Go back to the 21-22 season and Hughes puts up 60 assists in 76 games, Makar put up 58 in 77. Go back to 20-21 and Hughes put up 38 assists in in 56 games, Makar put up 36 in 44 games. 

 

Ultimately I think Hughes would fall short because he scores fewer goals, he doesn't have Makar's shot. Put Makar on the Canucks and we'd likely have been a better team because Makar would have given us a serious threat from the point, which is something we've needed from a D for years imo. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Coconuts

[The Aquaman]

Maker is a good player of course. But let’s not forget he started his career on a stacked Avalanche team.

[Bob Long]

And, lest we forget, he was a consolation prize for Colorado. 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, -AJ- said:

He's started off like a rocket, but Orr took off a little slower than Makar. Not willing to legitimately compare Makar to Orr until he scores something like 120 points or something. Orr had only barely broken out by the time he hit 250 points. Almost 0% chance Makar will match his pace to 400 points. In his first four seasons, Orr had 256 points in 250 games. By the end of his 5th season, he had 395 points in 328 games thanks to his 139-point season.

 

Nonetheless, Makar could be the greatest defenseman since Lidstrom. We'll see how many Norris trophies he wins. I wouldn't be shocked if he wins at least five.

 

For reference, Hughes is at 245 points in 286 games, so he's on pace to hit the 250-point mark at 292 games.

 

Orr was a freak of nature, what he did will probably never be rivaled, but while he took longer to get going one has to credit Makar for hitting the ground running. I've never seen a D step in and dominate so consistently in the offensive zone, which isn't to speak negatively of Hughes who is a phenom in his own right. 

[Jess]

41 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Orr was a freak of nature, what he did will probably never be rivaled, but while he took longer to get going one has to credit Makar for hitting the ground running. I've never seen a D step in and dominate so consistently in the offensive zone, which isn't to speak negatively of Hughes who is a phenom in his own right. 

 

Absolutely true. We certainly can't discount how easily and immediately Makar dominated the NHL. I suppose my comments about Orr are the result of comments from other fans I've heard about Makar being the best defenseman of all-time or at least on track to become that. I won't preclude Makar from that possibility in the future, but it's far too early to make that claim, in my opinion.

[Jess]

25 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I was waiting for someone to mention Hughes tbh. But it's a good question, it probably would be pretty close but I reckon he'd be a bit behind. Makar is as good as Hughes in all the areas Hughes excels in imo, but Hughes doesn't have Makar's shot and that's key. Makar has a superior toolbox. 

 

Hughes is an assist machine, so is Makar, but Makar's offense directly results in more goals than Hughes by virtue of his scoring more goals. Hughes has scored 26 goals in 286 games, Makar has scored 67 in 241 games. Put Hughes on the Avs and I'm not convinced he puts up more assists than Makar, but he likely scores fewer goals.

 

Hughes puts up more assists than Makar but Makar's roughly on par or better imo when you factor in games played. For example Hughes put up 69 assists in 78 games last season, Makar put up 49 in 60 games, give Makar another 18 games and he probably outpaces Hughes imo. Go back to the 21-22 season and Hughes puts up 60 assists in 76 games, Makar put up 58 in 77. Go back to 20-21 and Hughes put up 38 assists in in 56 games, Makar put up 36 in 44 games. 

 

Ultimately I think Hughes would fall short because he scores fewer goals, he doesn't have Makar's shot. Put Makar on the Canucks and we'd likely have been a better team because Makar would have given us a serious threat from the point, which is something we've needed from a D for years imo. 

 

I'd contend that Hughes does edge out Makar in play-making. His 69 assists in 78 games last eyar is .885 per game, whereas Makar's 49 in 60 is .817. For more digestable numbers, that prorates to 73 assists in 82 games for Hughes and 67 for Makar. The year prior, obviously Hughes puts up more in fewer games, so no math is needed. Going back three years, Makar beats him out, but at that point, you start looking fairly far back in history. Add a better Avalanche team and I think there's a strong case for Hughes being the better passer.

 

That said Makar is certainly the better goal-scorer, and it's not close. I do think Hughes could see an increase in that department if he shoots more this year as he's said he wants to do, but I'm not sure he'll be scoring 15-20 goals like Makar can. All in all, Makar is probably the better player offensively, due to the threat he provides with his shooting.

 

Makar is also a notable step above Hughes defensively. Hughes isn't bad defensively by any means, but Makar is straight up excellent in that regard and that, to me, is what makes Makar the #1D in the league whereas Hughes is probably #5-10.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, -AJ- said:

 

I'd contend that Hughes does edge out Makar in play-making. His 69 assists in 78 games last eyar is .885 per game, whereas Makar's 49 in 60 is .817. For more digestable numbers, that prorates to 73 assists in 82 games for Hughes and 67 for Makar. The year prior, obviously Hughes puts up more in fewer games, so no math is needed. Going back three years, Makar beats him out, but at that point, you start looking fairly far back in history. Add a better Avalanche team and I think there's a strong case for Hughes being the better passer.

 

That said Makar is certainly the better goal-scorer, and it's not close. I do think Hughes could see an increase in that department if he shoots more this year as he's said he wants to do, but I'm not sure he'll be scoring 15-20 goals like Makar can. All in all, Makar is probably the better player offensively, due to the threat he provides with his shooting.

 

Makar is also a notable step above Hughes defensively. Hughes isn't bad defensively by any means, but Makar is straight up excellent in that regard and that, to me, is what makes Makar the #1D in the league whereas Hughes is probably #5-10.

I think with a head coach & staff that places a greater emphasis on team's play/defense (Tocchet & Co.) you'll see that gap close.  Does that mean Hughes will be a shutdown defenseman in the future?  Nope but I see Norris trophy votes heading his way sooner rather than later.

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

I'd contend that Hughes does edge out Makar in play-making. His 69 assists in 78 games last eyar is .885 per game, whereas Makar's 49 in 60 is .817. For more digestable numbers, that prorates to 73 assists in 82 games for Hughes and 67 for Makar. The year prior, obviously Hughes puts up more in fewer games, so no math is needed. Going back three years, Makar beats him out, but at that point, you start looking fairly far back in history. Add a better Avalanche team and I think there's a strong case for Hughes being the better passer.

 

That said Makar is certainly the better goal-scorer, and it's not close. I do think Hughes could see an increase in that department if he shoots more this year as he's said he wants to do, but I'm not sure he'll be scoring 15-20 goals like Makar can. All in all, Makar is probably the better player offensively, due to the threat he provides with his shooting.

 

Makar is also a notable step above Hughes defensively. Hughes isn't bad defensively by any means, but Makar is straight up excellent in that regard and that, to me, is what makes Makar the #1D in the league whereas Hughes is probably #5-10.

 

The play-making argument is a fair one. My only retort would be that because Makar has the better shot he may be more inclined to shoot more often, if he shot less and passed more the numbers may look closer. That being said, that's off the top of my head and I'm not sure where I'd find their historical shot totals. It's also hard to prove because the NHL likely tracks shots whereas if data related to how many passes a player makes exists it's probably team owned data. Or I'd assume as much anyway. But at that point I'm spitballing a theoretical scenario anyway. 

 

But otherwise, yeah, absolutely agree. 

 

8 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I think with a head coach & staff that places a greater emphasis on team's play/defense (Tocchet & Co.) you'll see that gap close.  Does that mean Hughes will be a shutdown defenseman in the future?  Nope but I see Norris trophy votes heading his way sooner rather than later.

 

Tochett could be a wildcard regarding player offense, absolutely. 

Edited October 18, 2023 by Coconuts

[GrammaInTheTub]

The way Makar was able to handle McDavid one-on-one in the playoffs was a very impressive display of defensive ability. Not many players in the league can hang with McDavid 1v1. And like McDavid he’s a human highlight reel on offense.

Edited October 18, 2023 by GrammaInTheTub

[steviewonder20]

1 hour ago, Bounce000 said:

Hah Flyers…

We’re not the ones to gloat….OJ and Jake V come to mind. Image if they were good picks.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, -AJ- said:

He's started off like a rocket, but Orr took off a little slower than Makar. Not willing to legitimately compare Makar to Orr until he scores something like 120 points or something. Orr had only barely broken out by the time he hit 250 points. Almost 0% chance Makar will match his pace to 400 points. In his first four seasons, Orr had 256 points in 250 games. By the end of his 5th season, he had 395 points in 328 games thanks to his 139-point season.

 

Nonetheless, Makar could be the greatest defenseman since Lidstrom. We'll see how many Norris trophies he wins. I wouldn't be shocked if he wins at least five.

 

For reference, Hughes is at 245 points in 286 games, so he's on pace to hit the 250-point mark at 292 games.

 

Which is quite remarkable considering, he has been playing on a struggling team... One have to wonder if Maker would have reached the same numbers so fast playing for Canucks...