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1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

Didn't Augustine claim this is why God gave us free will?

He did but it doesn't explain famine or disease killing off young children nor why so much faith is required without evidence other than a bronze age collection of stories or why a loving god would relegate to hell those who don't get the cryptic messages.

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1 hour ago, Foamys Ghost said:

He did but it doesn't explain famine or disease killing off young children nor why so much faith is required without evidence other than a bronze age collection of stories or why a loving god would relegate to hell those who don't get the cryptic messages.

You like, Epicurus, seem to believe what some religious people state, that he is a kind, loving being, or in the case of sending them to a " hell ", a spiteful vindictive being.

Human characteristics attributed to a creator being.

What if the being that created the elements that make up the universe, including human beings, is indifferent to us ? 

As another poster pointed out, we have free will, we make our choices. Apart from the direct consequences of those choices during our lives, we do not currently have any evidence that those choices have any consequences after we have died.

 

Also good/ evil are subjective things usually determined by a majority view in any given society. 

 

There is also the fact that we don't have any current evidence of a " god "

It wasn't that long ago that we had no evidence in regards to the beginnings of our species and the Universe we inhabit. 

What about Multiverses ?

Are you going to deny they exist just because we don't currently have any concrete evidence, only theories ? 

An open mind is a good thing. 

 

In case you don't know, I am agnostic.

It's the only rational, logical position to take.

Also I am 99 percent certain if there does happen to be a creator being, it doesn't correspond with religious texts.

They are metaphors that are meant to teach us how to interact, however some human beings by their nature use those texts to control others, and twist them to their own ends.

 

 

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2 hours ago, Foamys Ghost said:

He did but it doesn't explain famine or disease killing off young children nor why so much faith is required without evidence other than a bronze age collection of stories or why a loving god would relegate to hell those who don't get the cryptic messages.

Maybe you’re looking in the wrong place and therefore you think there is no evidence. 

Edited by Doogie
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6 hours ago, Ilunga said:

You like, Epicurus, seem to believe what some religious people state, that he is a kind, loving being, or in the case of sending them to a " hell ", a spiteful vindictive being.

Human characteristics attributed to a creator being.

What if the being that created the elements that make up the universe, including human beings, is indifferent to us ? 

As another poster pointed out, we have free will, we make our choices. Apart from the direct consequences of those choices during our lives, we do not currently have any evidence that those choices have any consequences after we have died.

 

Also good/ evil are subjective things usually determined by a majority view in any given society. 

 

There is also the fact that we don't have any current evidence of a " god "

It wasn't that long ago that we had no evidence in regards to the beginnings of our species and the Universe we inhabit. 

What about Multiverses ?

Are you going to deny they exist just because we don't currently have any concrete evidence, only theories ? 

An open mind is a good thing. 

 

In case you don't know, I am agnostic.

It's the only rational, logical position to take.

Also I am 99 percent certain if there does happen to be a creator being, it doesn't correspond with religious texts.

They are metaphors that are meant to teach us how to interact, however some human beings by their nature use those texts to control others, and twist them to their own ends.

 

 

You're 99% certain, yet agnostic? That doesn't seem very rational or logical to me. 

God is a specific definition of a Supreme Being and creator/ruler of the universe who interferes with our lives here on earth. If you're 99% certain that this God isn't real and instead are keeping your mind open to "something" that may have started the universe (e.g. the universe is a living being itself), that's different and doesn't require you to call yourself agnostic. 

God does not exist. Full stop.

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12 hours ago, Foamys Ghost said:

Nobody has adequately countered the Epicurean Paradox.

it's interesting to apply it to the institution of christianity (or any other organized relation, like Scientology). 

Why do religious institutions allow evil? If they do, why do we need them?

Regardless of whatever source people think we spring from, one thing I've never understood is why I need some mediating person or institution between me and that source. 

All of the abuse we've seen in the name of religion is in service of the institutions. And they aren't needed, at all, that I can see. 

 

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4 hours ago, Jester13 said:

You're 99% certain, yet agnostic? That doesn't seem very rational or logical to me. 

God is a specific definition of a Supreme Being and creator/ruler of the universe who interferes with our lives here on earth. If you're 99% certain that this God isn't real and instead are keeping your mind open to "something" that may have started the universe (e.g. the universe is a living being itself), that's different and doesn't require you to call yourself agnostic. 

God does not exist. Full stop.

It depends on how you define God to some extent.  The "God of Spinoza" matches your definition of a universal creation spirit that does not interfere in our lives as far as we can tell.  Of course even that lacks empirical evidence.

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I remember back in early elementary school, I got invited to a bible camp. While my parents were both Atheist, it was encouraged for us to figure ourselves out and a number of family members like my uncle and grandmother were religious.

Perhaps ironically enough, I was kind of dumb at the time and didn't fully understand what was going on. I ended up hearing about this story of the ark and god and Adam and Eve and stuff and just thought it was some cool fairy tale story. lol

I'm still Atheist to this day (well Agnostic really but still).

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