Canadian Politics Thread

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Say what you want but this JT kid has always had balls. Challenge him to a fight and he will show up. Isn't intimidated very easily. 

Trudeau urges Modi to take murder allegations seriously after India denies 'absurd' claims

https://nationalpost.com/news/politics/indian-government-rejects-trudeau-claims

 

“The Government of India needs to take this matter with the utmost seriousness. We are doing that. We are not looking to provoke or escalate. We are simply laying out the facts as we understand them,” Trudeau said on Tuesday morning before meeting with his cabinet.

Easy solution.  Label everyone from Modis province as being from a terrorist state and refuse admittance to Canada until he takes it seriously.

If these allegations are true India committed a state sponsored killing in our nation.  That can not be taken lightly

[LaBamba]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

That's a bold assertion mate.  Whether you think it's out of context or not it was a major item in their convention and that suggestion of private care being an essential staple of our health care system should absolutely not be ignored.  "dollars need to be saved" and all and we know from historical experience what happens in the rush to cut costs.

 

Welcome back LB!

I think they’re trying to take sectors of healthcare like palliative and privatize it to take the stress off the remaining public system. I mean, I don’t know if it would work or not but theoretically it could help. We need to think of something though. 

[Bob Long]

12 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

That’s huge, considering the ramifications of such a statement. 
 

Heard Canada expelled an Indian diplomat as well. 
 

We’re certainly living in ‘interesting times’. 

we now understand why Canada pulled out of the trade deal right before the G20. And he apparently confronted Modi with the info in person.

I know we're all supposed to rag on Justin at the moment, but that was pretty ballsy and even though I don't support what the Khalistan folks want, I do support their right to say it and act within our laws.

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

The liberals have only recently gone far left.

Last I checked, the Liberals weren't pushing communes and worker control of the means of production... 

 

[Warhippy]

Just now, LaBamba said:

I think they’re trying to take sectors of healthcare like palliative and privatize it to take the stress off the remaining public system. I mean, I don’t know if it would work or not but theoretically it could help. We need to think of something though. 

Have you seen what happened to Seniors centres and care when it was privatized at the federal and provincial levels?  Really want that for people under corporate care who are on their literal last legs?  We can't even get corporations to make food or fuel affordable, now imagine giving them the ability to make money off of people with only weeks/months to live

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

I think they’re trying to take sectors of healthcare like palliative and privatize it to take the stress off the remaining public system. I mean, I don’t know if it would work or not but theoretically it could help. We need to think of something though. 

hey welcome back.

 

The problem with "privatizing" is we don't want to emulate the US system, which is terrible for most people. We already "privatize" a lot of things like imaging and lab services, but the difference is everyone can easily access that stuff so it makes no difference who's actually running it.

What we don't want to do is create a system where only a few really wealthy people influence the system too much. 

[LaBamba]

6 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

Last I checked, the Liberals weren't pushing communes and worker control of the means of production... 

 

Sorry bro, further left. 

[RupertKBD]

5 hours ago, LaBamba said:

I’m going to ask you the same question as the last guy i responded too. 
 

where are the positive results? 

The problem with an open-ended question like this, is that there are multiple possible answers and they could all be correct.

For instance, one could point out that we are in a much better position than we were during the Pandemic, or even just after emerging from it. One could also point out that we are in a worse situation than we were before the Pandemic.

It would also be worth noting that we handled the Pandemic far better than our Southern neighbors, because unlike them, we didn't allow politics to enter the equation. (at least not at the federal level. Certain provincial governments, may have done so)

So the reality is, we are both better off and worse off than we might have been. It all depends on your perspective. This is why, IMHO, questions like the one you posed are pretty much meaningless. Far better to debate a specific action, such as the Carbon Tax, or Marijuana legalization.....or even the changing of the National Anthem, if you are one of the folks who is bothered by that.

[LaBamba]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Have you seen what happened to Seniors centres and care when it was privatized at the federal and provincial levels?  Really want that for people under corporate care who are on their literal last legs?  We can't even get corporations to make food or fuel affordable, now imagine giving them the ability to make money off of people with only weeks/months to live

Yes, I unfortunately had to deal with this at the end of my grandmother’s life here Recently. If you have the money the private nursing homes are pretty swank actually. The provided nursing home in Saskatchewan was extremely heartbreaking to witness. Palliative care can also be something as simple as a self employed nurse with the credentials to administer drugs and provide in home care. 
I’m open to this idea but unsure of how it’s going to look. 

 

10 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

hey welcome back.

 

The problem with "privatizing" is we don't want to emulate the US system, which is terrible for most people. We already "privatize" a lot of things like imaging and lab services, but the difference is everyone can easily access that stuff so it makes no difference who's actually running it.

What we don't want to do is create a system where only a few really wealthy people influence the system too much. 

Hey buddy!!! 
 

like I told WH I saw this first hand recently. Western society does a crappy job of taking care of our elderly in general. Maybe families can be subsidized for taking care of elders just like they do with childcare. A nice nursing home is 1200-4000 a month and the quality of life is quite good. That’s a lot of money though. 
 

There are definitely some questions with this type of formula but it’s an idea I think parliament could build on. 

[ronthecivil]

13 hours ago, LaBamba said:

Your belief that conservative policy will not improve our current situation is not fact.
The fact is we are seeing the liberal policies ineffectiveness in real time. The only way to put these policies to the test is to activate them. 

Harper had his faults, but he ran Canada like a business. He was a cold stale nerd that thought in dollars. We went thru a global financial crisis unscathed. In fact it strengthened our currency to a point of disadvantage. When you’re a commodity based economy with a dollar on par with the US you’re at a major disadvantage. He should have invested our lucrative oil revenue into infrastructure and alternative energy. He should have created a sovereign wealth fund, but he didn’t and for that I resent him to an extent.
With that being said, Trudeau hasn’t done any of that either. He talks about green infrastructure but where is it? The global inflation is only going to drive the world into the arms of hydrocarbon. We don’t have the wealth to invest in the infrastructure to transition into alternative energy. People can’t comprehend what burning 100,000,000 bbls of oil a day globally looks like. The only way to pay for this transition is to use the our oil wealth. This is exactly what Saudi Arabia is aggressive doing with mega projects like “the line” 

Ironically, voting liberal will only make it harder for us to fund a greener economy because borrowing money with no additional revenue will only devalue our currency and make it harder and harder to get there. 
 

The only thing our giant country with one of the lowest population densities on earth needs to be concerned with right now is inflation. It’s probably the biggest threat to our Country since WW2

BC is spending 20 Billion or so on a hydro electric dam. You need those to use the others. 

You can get private industry to build you massive wind farms and solar etc. but you better get ready for 40 cents a kilowatt hour.

And unless you do the above, there's no real point in getting an electric car or heat pump, because what you are powering it with, depends on the time of day. And if it's at night, it probably whatever you can buy from down south, be it  power by natural gas, coal, or puppies. 

You can of course also build a massive waste to energy plant that has to be nat gas enhanced to make sure you burn it extra good and make money hand over fist, but for some reason that has zero shot due to the nat gas (which can be recovered from existing landfills lol and burning it released 5% of the amount of just letting the methane seep out, but LOGIC), and the perception that it's going to poison the air, despite there already being a small one in Burnaby that already exists and nobody knows about.

[ronthecivil]

7 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

The problem with an open-ended question like this, is that there are multiple possible answers and they could all be correct.

For instance, one could point out that we are in a much better position than we were during the Pandemic, or even just after emerging from it. One could also point out that we are in a worse situation than we were before the Pandemic.

It would also be worth noting that we handled the Pandemic far better than our Southern neighbors, because unlike them, we didn't allow politics to enter the equation. (at least not at the federal level. Certain provincial governments, may have done so)

So the reality is, we are both better off and worse off than we might have been. It all depends on your perspective. This is why, IMHO, questions like the one you posed are pretty much meaningless. Far better to debate a specific action, such as the Carbon Tax, or Marijuana legalization.....or even the changing of the National Anthem, if you are one of the folks who is bothered by that.

Every country is worse off since the pandemic, regardless of how they handled it. Inflation is a global problem, so is extremism. "Too much time on social media made huge portions of the global population cray cray.

[Bob Long]

4 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Yes, I unfortunately had to deal with this at the end of my grandmother’s life here Recently. If you have the money the private nursing homes are pretty swank actually. The provided nursing home in Saskatchewan was extremely heartbreaking to witness. Palliative care can also be something as simple as a self employed nurse with the credentials to administer drugs and provide in home care. 
I’m open to this idea but unsure of how it’s going to look. 

 

Hey buddy!!! 
 

like I told WH I saw this first hand recently. Western society does a crappy job of taking care of our elderly in general. Maybe families can be subsidized for taking care of elders just like they do with childcare. A nice nursing home is 1200-4000 a month and the quality of life is quite good. That’s a lot of money though. 
 

There are definitely some questions with this type of formula but it’s an idea I think parliament could build on. 

we do have some caregiver credits in Canada, but they aren't nearly enough to cover it. The math is frightening when you have to hire in help - we were doing this for my in-laws until we could get them into long term care. $300k per year for 24/7 help (which they needed, they were like babies), and that was on the cheaper end.

Something is going to have to happen soon on this, almost no one is going to be able to afford help and whatever equity they thought they had in their homes will be eaten by reverse mortgages in about 2 years. 

[RupertKBD]

4 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

Every country is worse off since the pandemic, regardless of how they handled it. Inflation is a global problem, so is extremism. "Too much time on social media made huge portions of the global population cray cray.

Agreed. But that won't stop his detractors from placing the blame on JT....

[Bob Long]

Just an fyi - this site tracks politician promises: https://www.polimeter.org/en

So anyone that wants to check Trudeau's record can see the results there. Mixed bag as you can expect, with some significant kept and broken promises. 

[Warhippy]

Just now, RupertKBD said:

Agreed. But that won't stop his detractors from placing the blame on JT....

Thats it exactly.  No matter the actual facts.  The person in power is the person at fault regardless of the reasons.

The timing will be funny though.  Because the only way to reign in costs of food and housing is regulation.  it will be interesting to see how the Conservatives plan to do this and even more interesting to see who is holding the cheque when they tank the housing market causing the single largest loss of wealth in canadian history

[I.Am.Ironman]

4 hours ago, LaBamba said:

CPC is not going to push for private health care. They’re not going to criminalize abortion or THC. They’re not going to build a wall. They’re not going to legalize assault rifles and They support Ukraine. Those issues right there make them more democratic than republican. Canada as a whole is far more socialist than the United States and our so called right wing party clearly show’s that. 
 

People like to compare the CPC to the Republican Party but in reality the CPC has more in common with the liberals than they do the republicans. 
 

The Liberals use to be the party in the centre of the NDP and the CPC but that is no longer the case. They still have fragments of conservative views in comparison to the NDP but they’ve definitely drifted far too left.

I agree with a lot of the second half of this post but I think you are painting Republicans with a broad brush. Many of them support Ukraine, don't want to criminalize abortion etc.

4 hours ago, Alflives said:

IMHAO we can have conservative values (like with spending money or how we dress) while politically being someone who votes for the NDP. I think most people, especially as they age, tend to be more conservative with their values. 

It's because they start paying more taxes and start to miss the 'good ol' days'.

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

The liberals have only recently gone far left. The liberal party has always been common ground. 
 

We have had the JT government in power for 8 years. Nothing has improved in the area’s that a liberal government traditionally improves. from top to bottom everything is worse. Ignore the noise and think about real life here in BC. 
 

I understand that provincial governments are responsible for a lot of these things but it’s left in BC regardless. 

Health care: I gotta be in a major Jam to spend 7 hrs in an emergency room. That has become noticeably worse in the last 8 years I don’t even go to the doctor anymore. I wait till I’m working in Texas if I got something going on. My travel insurance in the US provides far better healthcare than what I have in Salmon Arm. 

Cost of living. What a disaster. I don’t know how people live in Vancouver. 

Mental health. Homelessness has become drastically worse.

education. Expensive and definitely not improved by any means. 

environment. Carbon taxes go up. Yet forests still burn down. Probably the laziest approach imaginable to an issue their voters value the most. 

just to show you that I’m not bias to any party. They have done some things that I like. 
 
In real time I thought they handled the pandemic well. In hindsight of course it was a disaster but it was a disaster for everyone.

I like the child care subsidies. I got a soft spot for struggling families and I don’t mind spending money there. 

l like how they handled Ukraine. 

considering the circumstances, he did well with the NAFTA debacle. 

but overall quality of life is lower for most Canadians than it was 8 years ago and there are no excuses. 

While I agree that the Libs have gone too far left, I'm not sure all of what you list here falls at the feet of the feds. As you say, most points are provincial issues.

ERs - these are for the 'major jams'. And if you are truly in a life/death situation you get looked after well... and fast. I've been to the ER a few times over the past few years for a family member and overall the experience was smooth. Obviously there were some instances where we had to wait 1-2 hours, but if something was pressing we were in pretty quickly. I would add, that my recent experiences are actually an improvement from when I went as a kid with a broken ankle or whatever.

Cost of living - more of an issue provincially. The previous libs of BC royally screwed this.

Mental Health - not sure how this is Trudeau's fault? Advocacy, awareness, treatment options and accessibility have all improved under his tenure; I don't think that is to his or the libs credit either.

Environment - this made me laugh. Linking forest fires to a failure of the Carbon Tax is lazy. More hectares are burning in BC, but again, it's called the BC Wildfire Service. Many fires are so remote that they can't be effectively fought, they have to triage. Some may criticize the approach by the BC Wildfire Service, which may be fair or unfair but again, not the fault of the feds. Many of the fires close to municipalities are human caused. There is a new fire that popped up close to Peachland last week and there have been no lightning storms. People's arrogance is not the fault of any government.

 

I'm not saying that the Libs are doing an amazing job. I've grown tired of JT and the libs as well. I'd like them to be more center. But let's be objective and fair about criticism. The country is divided but who is really doing the dividing? I'd go as far as to say the anti-vaxxers (some far left fall into this category), anti-maskers, freedom convoy caused more division than those with left leanings. And for the record, as it stands I'm leaning towards voting conservative, depending on their platform.

[LaBamba]

7 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

The problem with an open-ended question like this, is that there are multiple possible answers and they could all be correct.

For instance, one could point out that we are in a much better position than we were during the Pandemic, or even just after emerging from it. One could also point out that we are in a worse situation than we were before the Pandemic.

It would also be worth noting that we handled the Pandemic far better than our Southern neighbors, because unlike them, we didn't allow politics to enter the equation. (at least not at the federal level. Certain provincial governments, may have done so)

So the reality is, we are both better off and worse off than we might have been. It all depends on your perspective. This is why, IMHO, questions like the one you posed are pretty much meaningless. Far better to debate a specific action, such as the Carbon Tax, or Marijuana legalization.....or even the changing of the National Anthem, if you are one of the folks who is bothered by that.

I was zooming a little further back though. 
 

i admitted earlier that there are a lot of things the JT government handled well. I work in the US and seen both sides of the daily pandemic life. I worked down here through it. Thing’s definitely got back to normal here much sooner so you can take that however you’d like. I don’t want to get into all that. 
 

I'm talking about return on investment. Mental health/addiction/Homelessness has gotten drastically worse with a liberal approach. BC has been completely liberal run for like 8 years and it’s gotten drastically worse despite the increased investment. 
 

Where you land on the political spectrum shouldn’t influence your assessment on the results. The results have been very disappointing to say the list. I can’t point out a single thing that is socially better than it was before JT took office. 
 

Dynamic issues like Ukraine, Covid and NAFTA I feel they handled well. The long term things However not so much. 

[LaBamba]

16 minutes ago, ronthecivil said:

BC is spending 20 Billion or so on a hydro electric dam. You need those to use the others. 

You can get private industry to build you massive wind farms and solar etc. but you better get ready for 40 cents a kilowatt hour.

And unless you do the above, there's no real point in getting an electric car or heat pump, because what you are powering it with, depends on the time of day. And if it's at night, it probably whatever you can buy from down south, be it  power by natural gas, coal, or puppies. 

You can of course also build a massive waste to energy plant that has to be nat gas enhanced to make sure you burn it extra good and make money hand over fist, but for some reason that has zero shot due to the nat gas (which can be recovered from existing landfills lol and burning it released 5% of the amount of just letting the methane seep out, but LOGIC), and the perception that it's going to poison the air, despite there already being a small one in Burnaby that already exists and nobody knows about.

I like the Saudi model. Using their vast Oil Wealth to transition from their vast oil wealth. That could never fly here because everyone is looking too near term. 

[Warhippy]

Just now, LaBamba said:

I like the Saudi model. Using their vast Oil Wealth to transition from their vast oil wealth. That could never fly here because everyone is looking too near term. 

We missed that window.  Costs to much to get rich off of oil now.  The only way to change that is enforce critical royalties in mining and extraction as well as the export of unrefined goods.

That's the only way and we already had a major referendum of sorts about this a few decades back and said.  No

[LaBamba]

32 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

I agree with a lot of the second half of this post but I think you are painting Republicans with a broad brush. Many of them support Ukraine, don't want to criminalize abortion etc.

It's because they start paying more taxes and start to miss the 'good ol' days'.

While I agree that the Libs have gone too far left, I'm not sure all of what you list here falls at the feet of the feds. As you say, most points are provincial issues.

ERs - these are for the 'major jams'. And if you are truly in a life/death situation you get looked after well... and fast. I've been to the ER a few times over the past few years for a family member and overall the experience was smooth. Obviously there were some instances where we had to wait 1-2 hours, but if something was pressing we were in pretty quickly. I would add, that my recent experiences are actually an improvement from when I went as a kid with a broken ankle or whatever.

Cost of living - more of an issue provincially. The previous libs of BC royally screwed this.

Mental Health - not sure how this is Trudeau's fault? Advocacy, awareness, treatment options and accessibility have all improved under his tenure; I don't think that is to his or the libs credit either.

Environment - this made me laugh. Linking forest fires to a failure of the Carbon Tax is lazy. More hectares are burning in BC, but again, it's called the BC Wildfire Service. Many fires are so remote that they can't be effectively fought, they have to triage. Some may criticize the approach by the BC Wildfire Service, which may be fair or unfair but again, not the fault of the feds. Many of the fires close to municipalities are human caused. There is a new fire that popped up close to Peachland last week and there have been no lightning storms. People's arrogance is not the fault of any government.

 

I'm not saying that the Libs are doing an amazing job. I've grown tired of JT and the libs as well. I'd like them to be more center. But let's be objective and fair about criticism. The country is divided but who is really doing the dividing? I'd go as far as to say the anti-vaxxers (some far left fall into this category), anti-maskers, freedom convoy caused more division than those with left leanings. And for the record, as it stands I'm leaning towards voting conservative, depending on their platform.

You got some great stuff in here, thanks for that. I guess I’m talking liberal policies in general regardless of the party. 
 

the government spending, the devaluation of our currency, the business environment of our commodity based economy has set the table for an endless cycle of borrowing to fulfill promises. It feels like we are on a sinking ship with a bailout bucket. 
 

We need revenue, we need buying power and we need to be open for business. 
 

I cannot look back 8 years ago and point out things that Harper did wrong anymore. We are in 2 completely different landscapes right now. What we can do is evaluate the performance of our government in real time and vote whether we want that to continue or if we want that to change.
Something has to change in my opinion cause we are headed for some tough times at this trajectory. 
 

edit: the carbon tax example was poorly delivered sarcasm. Lol. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by LaBamba

[LaBamba]

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

We missed that window.  Costs to much to get rich off of oil now.  The only way to change that is enforce critical royalties in mining and extraction as well as the export of unrefined goods.

That's the only way and we already had a major referendum of sorts about this a few decades back and said.  No

We have the 2nd or 3rd biggest proven oil reserves in the world and share a continent where 60% of the daily consumption is used. We could easily be Saudi right now. You’re right though. Talking about this is pointless. I just like how they are using Oil to get rid of it. 
 

we do have a lot of other resources too though, it just costs too much to do business here. 

[LaBamba]

40 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

Agreed. But that won't stop his detractors from placing the blame on JT....

I’m not looking back on the pandemic at all. For me, that’s a mulligan. I’m looking at the parties solutions and how it’s being handled in real time. 

[LaBamba]

39 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Thats it exactly.  No matter the actual facts.  The person in power is the person at fault regardless of the reasons.

The timing will be funny though.  Because the only way to reign in costs of food and housing is regulation.  it will be interesting to see how the Conservatives plan to do this and even more interesting to see who is holding the cheque when they tank the housing market causing the single largest loss of wealth in canadian history

I’ve never heard any kind of solution from and economic expert or politician that will take us out of this. I don’t think there is a solution. It’s inevitable now regardless of the party in power. 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

14 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

We have the 2nd or 3rd biggest proven oil reserves in the world and share a continent where 60% of the daily consumption is used. We could easily be Saudi right now.

I'd doubt it.  Most of the oil reserves in Canada are locked into oil sands, which unlike conventional oil, is costly to extract and refine.

[Playoff Beered]

32 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

I was zooming a little further back though. 

i admitted earlier that there are a lot of things the JT government handled well. I work in the US and seen both sides of the daily pandemic life. I worked down here through it. Thing’s definitely got back to normal here much sooner so you can take that however you’d like. I don’t want to get into all that. 

I'm talking about return on investment. Mental health/addiction/Homelessness has gotten drastically worse with a liberal approach. BC has been completely liberal run for like 8 years and it’s gotten drastically worse despite the increased investment. 

Where you land on the political spectrum shouldn’t influence your assessment on the results. The results have been very disappointing to say the list. I can’t point out a single thing that is socially better than it was before JT took office. 

Dynamic issues like Ukraine, Covid and NAFTA I feel they handled well. The long term things However not so much. 

It's been 6 years of NDP after 16 years of liberal (In name only) governments.