Canadian Politics Thread

[LaBamba]

3 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

It's been 6 years of NDP after 16 years of liberal (In name only) governments.

Ok, sorry 6. Is BC a better place 6 years later? 

[Bob Long]

11 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Ok, sorry 6. Is BC a better place 6 years later? 

I don't think so. At least they were smart enough to keep Site C and not fire Dr. Henry. 

What the BC NDP did to nuking what would have been the first First Nations led Olympics is pretty shameful imo. Reconciliation, sure, as long as it's on the NDPs terms. 

[Playoff Beered]

8 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Ok, sorry 6. Is BC a better place 6 years later? 

Not for most people, are you suggesting if the liberals would have stayed in power things would be better?

[LaBamba]

21 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

Not for most people, are you suggesting if the liberals would have stayed in power things would be better?

 No, I’m suggesting you look at results and base your judgement on that. 

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, LaBamba said:

I’ve never heard any kind of solution from and economic expert or politician that will take us out of this. I don’t think there is a solution. It’s inevitable now regardless of the party in power. 

I posted and mentioned a lot of the issues with the talking points of both parties about how fixing the housing crisis/affordability is a pipe dream that will only cause far more expensive issues than it will solve.

 

I just want for once to see someone in power admit it's all fookt and that they don't have an easy solution.  Instead of just blaming everyone else and pretending they have an answer

[Sharpshooter]

3 hours ago, Bob Long said:

we now understand why Canada pulled out of the trade deal right before the G20. And he apparently confronted Modi with the info in person.

I know we're all supposed to rag on Justin at the moment, but that was pretty ballsy and even though I don't support what the Khalistan folks want, I do support their right to say it and act within our laws.

I appreciate Trudeau taking such a ballsy stance against India. 
 

I reckon it’s two part based. 
 

First, there’s credible evidence from CSIS and other Agencies that link the Indian govt to the assassination. Modi is an ultra-religious-nationalist, that has done his utmost to be against the Sikhs in the State of Punjab. That’s what the whole ‘No Farmers, No Food’ stickers you see on hundreds of cars and trucks were in response to. 
 

Secondly, Trudeau probably calculated the political costs to the Liberal Party, as many of those of Punjabi/Sikh members make up not only his Cabinet, but also those in his caucus. I’m sure that he felt the pressure. And of course the Punjabi people as a group are one of the highest voter turnout demographic. Losing their support would be detrimental to his government staying in power, and him remaining PM. 
 

This is how the world and governments work, as you’re well aware. 
 

The fight is on. India just expelled a top Canadian diplomat in retaliation to Canada ousting one of India’s top diplomats. 
 

It will escalate further. 
 

Then, there will be some show of good-faith between the countries and nothing will ultimately be done. 
 

It’s all a show from start to finish. 
 

 

 

 

[Warhippy]

56 minutes ago, Playoff Beered said:

It's been 6 years of NDP after 16 years of liberal (In name only) governments.

Amazingly, BC still has one of the top economies in the entire nation.  Has not lost jobs or added taxes.

Almost impressed when you consider it's been NDP run.

[LaBamba]

9 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I posted and mentioned a lot of the issues with the talking points of both parties about how fixing the housing crisis/affordability is a pipe dream that will only cause far more expensive issues than it will solve.

 

I just want for once to see someone in power admit it's all fookt and that they don't have an easy solution.  Instead of just blaming everyone else and pretending they have an answer

100%

it’s going to just have to happen organically I guess. Lol 

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

100%

it’s going to just have to happen organically I guess. Lol 

The issue is organically won't help.  It will take direct intervention and or near total regulation of the housing market to reign it in.  That's just not possible.  it would be like trying to regulate or take control of the oil resources in our nation now.  Corporations won't have it.  Other nations won't have it.  Our housing sector has undergone and almost complete financialization since 2008/2009 in which housing has become a line item on a corporate balance sheet.

Try to regulate it, corporations, developers and their property management shells will dump units on to the market en masse thus tanking the housing sector.  They have the cash on hand to then purchase these houses or condos in bulk thus doubling their holdings or more.  This will be lamed on the government.

the other possibility is the direct intervention by the government with subsidized housing and home builds that are under the oversight and control of the government.  Adding 300k+ units on top of the 200=+ already being built means that it will supercharge the level of units on the market.  this will also have the effect of tanking housing prices due to the increased volume.  with so much $ tied up in equity of a home, or reverse mortgages etc and loans taken against homes over the last decade due to the artificially low rates people will lose their asses because of it.

If any of that goes off without a hitch, we don't have the work force to build these homes.  If we did/do then what level of oversight is there?  We won't have the manpower to supervise this which would lead to the same processes that we saw with the leaky condo crisis in the early 90s post expo 86.  Except we're talking a national scale in which entire building complexes are effectively unliveable due to deficiencies in electrical, plumbing or heating/insulation/weatherproofing.  

But the provincial governments makes as much $ in housing at the provincial levels as the feds do in gas/fuel taxes.  Asking the provinces to eschew that level of revenue is not gonna happen.  Now let's suppose that the provinces do all this.  The feds do all this.  Let's ask what happens to the infrastructure issues.  The estimation of an additional 2 million by 2030 means that every moderate to major urban centre will see an influx of at least 20,000 people or more.  Not sure where you live but I am in penticton.  Penticton has a population of 33,000 when you add in all of the surrounding communities but only has about 21,000 in the proper area on sewer, water and gas.  

Doubling the people means every single aspect of the infrastructure grid needs to be doubled.  Power, Water, Sewer, water treatment, roads, hospitals and schools.  In basically no less than 100+ population centres in the nation every single aspect of critical infrastructure will have to be see their capacity doubled.  How much would that cost?  Victoria's water treatment/sewer plant is at or around 41 billion give or take a few million.  Now look at doubling the capacity or replacing every single water treatment plant in the nation for almost every major population centre.  When you consider the 33rd most populous city in canada is Chicoutimi-Jonquiere with 100k people and the 100th largest is Midland Ontario with 26,000 people you realize that there is 70 ish cities in this nation that would see their populaiton increase by 1/5th or in many cases almost double.

There is literally zero easy answers to the single most pressing issue in canada and instead of admitting that we have a party in power saying they'll try; but failing to do anything meaningful in 8 years.  Another party that has a leader promising to fix things and blaming it all on the current party in power and in between we have a party that has had some meaningful ideas but doesn't have the balls to actually hold the current party in powers balls to the fire.

There is no organic answer that will solve this sadly because it's been going on for almost 17 years.

[Miss Korea]

7 hours ago, LaBamba said:

Show me results and I’ll praise the Liberals. I want the Liberals to succeed because if they do we all do. 

they haven’t and it’s time for something new. 

everything you are saying about PP catering to the extreme right can be said for the NDP and Liberals on the extreme left. Politics are a mess today and you’re playing into it. 

Oh man.  You're doing exactly what you did last time.  Instead of actually responding to anything I said, again you go off in a completely different direction.  It's like you've got nothing else to say.  Two ways to respond to this.

First is straightforward: you've got no idea what you're talking about.  Give me multiple specifics on the NDP and Liberals catering to the extreme left.  Because I specifically mentioned cases of where Pierre directly courted extremist Canadians and non-Canadians who literally promoted seditious views.

Second, is like before: Everything I said about PP has nothing to do with what the Liberals are doing.  If you try to scold your kid over something they did wrong, are you going to accept "others did bad things too" as a valid excuse?  You are the conservative apologist here.  You have to stand up for what PP believes in, and that has nothing to do with Trudeau or Singh or anyone else.

5 hours ago, LaBamba said:

The liberals have only recently gone far left. The liberal party has always been common ground. 

We have had the JT government in power for 8 years. Nothing has improved in the area’s that a liberal government traditionally improves. from top to bottom everything is worse. Ignore the noise and think about real life here in BC. 
 

I understand that provincial governments are responsible for a lot of these things but it’s left in BC regardless. 

Health care: I gotta be in a major Jam to spend 7 hrs in an emergency room. That has become noticeably worse in the last 8 years I don’t even go to the doctor anymore. I wait till I’m working in Texas if I got something going on. My travel insurance in the US provides far better healthcare than what I have in Salmon Arm. 

Cost of living. What a disaster. I don’t know how people live in Vancouver. 

Mental health. Homelessness has become drastically worse.

education. Expensive and definitely not improved by any means. 

environment. Carbon taxes go up. Yet forests still burn down. Probably the laziest approach imaginable to an issue their voters value the most. 

just to show you that I’m not bias to any party. They have done some things that I like. 
 
In real time I thought they handled the pandemic well. In hindsight of course it was a disaster but it was a disaster for everyone.

I like the child care subsidies. I got a soft spot for struggling families and I don’t mind spending money there. 

l like how they handled Ukraine. 

considering the circumstances, he did well with the NAFTA debacle. 

but overall quality of life is lower for most Canadians than it was 8 years ago and there are no excuses. 

Health care is provincial.  Education is provincial.  Environment is largely provincial.  Some things are mixed, like taxation and immigration.  The only things the Feds have direct control over is currency, trade, and defence.  You've basically blamed Trudeau's Liberals over everything that is largely under provincial jurisdiction.  This is high school stuff.  The things you're praising Trudeau for are actual federal issues.

Ottawa has absolutely nothing to do with the carbon tax here in BC.  Nothing.  We have our own system here in BC and Ottawa doesn't touch it.  We were the first to implement such a system and it has been largely popular.  While studies suggest that hasn't really abated overall carbon use much, it is a revenue-neutral tax.  How much money you get back per year depends on whether or not you're above or below the average pollution rate.

Housing is the wild card, since it requires careful coordination between all three levels of government.  The feds have some tools they can choose to implement.  They could disincentivize rental construction, and of course they can incentivize social housing (which none of the parties have really dialed in on).  Immigration has a huge impact on supply and demand, but that's a completely different economic issue (and also one of mixed jurisdiction).

---------------------

The forum format favours you a lot, because you keep going on about problems that are distinctly not federal.  In real life I would've instantly shot down almost every topic you've mentioned.  You should've learned the difference between federal/provincial jurisdictions in high school.

So two things on your plate.  Firstly, you should try and address my issues about Pierre Poilievre directly, without trying to reference Trudeau or Singh or anyone else.  What they do with their parties have nothing to do with what Pierre has done.  Secondly, you need to ask yourself why you're blaming the federal government over things they largely have no power/jurisdiction over.

I am not a Liberal apologist, nor am I a Trudeau supporter.  I'm not going to defend or attack his actions.  This has nothing to do with him.  I'm asking you defend what Pierre Poilievre has done.

[Warhippy]

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

what Pierre Poilievre has done.

This is what I want answers about from anyone as well.

Tell me why he deserves to be PM.  Tell me what he has in common with us like he claims.  Tell me what his work experience is.  Tell me what his voting history and records are.  Tell me what major legislation he championed while a major member of the former PMs cabinet from 2008 through 2014.  Tell me how he is different than the PM for the exact same reasons the PM is lambasted for his upbringing.

I just want people to actually tell me how he's a better option

[Miss Korea]

3 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

This is what I want answers about from anyone as well.

Tell me why he deserves to be PM.  Tell me what he has in common with us like he claims.  Tell me what his work experience is.  Tell me what his voting history and records are.  Tell me what major legislation he championed while a major member of the former PMs cabinet from 2008 through 2014.  Tell me how he is different than the PM for the exact same reasons the PM is lambasted for his upbringing.

I just want people to actually tell me how he's a better option

We can only judge him based off what we know, and he hasn't really revealed much.  He has such an acrimonious relationship with the media that he has shown an extremely limited side of what type of government he'd run.  No clue on foreign policy.  No clue on trade.  We have nothing to work off of.  His strategy is to simply "attack, attack, attack" his way to the top.

[Warhippy]

2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

We can only judge him based off what we know, and he hasn't really revealed much.  He has such an acrimonious relationship with the media that he has shown an extremely limited side of what type of government he'd run.  No clue on foreign policy.  No clue on trade.  We have nothing to work off of.  His strategy is to simply "attack, attack, attack" his way to the top.

What we know, is he has been in office for over 20 years.  His entire life is a matter of public record.  That's why I want to know how he is somehow different than Trudeau.  He has no work experience.  He was a public figure at numerous right to life marches.  Has a serious history with social causes and has never worked a day in his entire life outside of telephone collections agent.

Imagine for a moment that you'd willingly think that the guy who called your house at 6:17 am looking for money because you missed your cell phone payment and was then threatening you with collections or the like would be a good leader and role model for your nation.

[LaBamba]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

Oh man.  You're doing exactly what you did last time.  Instead of actually responding to anything I said, again you go off in a completely different direction.  It's like you've got nothing else to say.  Two ways to respond to this.

First is straightforward: you've got no idea what you're talking about.  Give me multiple specifics on the NDP and Liberals catering to the extreme left.  Because I specifically mentioned cases of where Pierre directly courted extremist Canadians and non-Canadians who literally promoted seditious views.

Second, is like before: Everything I said about PP has nothing to do with what the Liberals are doing.  If you try to scold your kid over something they did wrong, are you going to accept "others did bad things too" as a valid excuse?  You are the conservative apologist here.  You have to stand up for what PP believes in, and that has nothing to do with Trudeau or Singh or anyone else.

Health care is provincial.  Education is provincial.  Environment is largely provincial.  Some things are mixed, like taxation and immigration.  The only things the Feds have direct control over is currency, trade, and defence.  You've basically blamed Trudeau's Liberals over everything that is largely under provincial jurisdiction.  This is high school stuff.  The things you're praising Trudeau for are actual federal issues.

Ottawa has absolutely nothing to do with the carbon tax here in BC.  Nothing.  We have our own system here in BC and Ottawa doesn't touch it.  We were the first to implement such a system and it has been largely popular.  While studies suggest that hasn't really abated overall carbon use much, it is a revenue-neutral tax.  How much money you get back per year depends on whether or not you're above or below the average pollution rate.

Housing is the wild card, since it requires careful coordination between all three levels of government.  The feds have some tools they can choose to implement.  They could disincentivize rental construction, and of course they can incentivize social housing (which none of the parties have really dialed in on).  Immigration has a huge impact on supply and demand, but that's a completely different economic issue (and also one of mixed jurisdiction).

---------------------

The forum format favours you a lot, because you keep going on about problems that are distinctly not federal.  In real life I would've instantly shot down almost every topic you've mentioned.  You should've learned the difference between federal/provincial jurisdictions in high school.

So two things on your plate.  Firstly, you should try and address my issues about Pierre Poilievre directly, without trying to reference Trudeau or Singh or anyone else.  What they do with their parties have nothing to do with what Pierre has done.  Secondly, you need to ask yourself why you're blaming the federal government over things they largely have no power/jurisdiction over.

I am not a Liberal apologist, nor am I a Trudeau supporter.  I'm not going to defend or attack his actions.  This has nothing to do with him.  I'm asking you defend what Pierre Poilievre has done.

I was consuming alcohol first of all. It’s hard to articulate when you’re buzzing. I just lumped all left liberal politics into a heaping pile of poor performance. The BC liberals and Harper have been gone a long time, I was open to changing things up and welcomed it.

changing the national anthem and saying things like “people kind” is pretty far left. Nobody in the centre gives a crap about that stuff. although I wasn’t for the convoy, his handling of it was pretty far left. I personally don’t really care about the convoy or how it was handled, it irritated the hell out of me and I was glad it was over. 

I don’t like PP, he is just as incompetent and arrogant as JT. They are literally the same person with basically the same credentials prior to leading their party. The NDP and green are a non starter for me. So that leaves me with 2 choices. The performance of one of those choices is completely sub par and the other is completely unknown. At this point. We need to try something different and he is the best choice for my lifestyle and needs. Since Rona Ambrose left politics I haven’t seen anyone worthy from the CPC to fill her shoes. 

Inflation is all I am concerned with right now. I don’t care about anything else. 

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, Sharpshooter said:

I appreciate Trudeau taking such a ballsy stance against India. 
 

I reckon it’s two part based. 
 

First, there’s credible evidence from CSIS and other Agencies that link the Indian govt to the assassination. Modi is an ultra-religious-nationalist, that has done his utmost to be against the Sikhs in the State of Punjab. That’s what the whole ‘No Farmers, No Food’ stickers you see on hundreds of cars and trucks were in response to. 
 

Secondly, Trudeau probably calculated the political costs to the Liberal Party, as many of those of Punjabi/Sikh members make up not only his Cabinet, but also those in his caucus. I’m sure that he felt the pressure. And of course the Punjabi people as a group are one of the highest voter turnout demographic. Losing their support would be detrimental to his government staying in power, and him remaining PM. 
 

This is how the world and governments work, as you’re well aware. 
 

The fight is on. India just expelled a top Canadian diplomat in retaliation to Canada ousting one of India’s top diplomats. 
 

It will escalate further. 
 

Then, there will be some show of good-faith between the countries and nothing will ultimately be done. 
 

It’s all a show from start to finish. 
 

 

 

 

yep all of that makes sense. 

[Canuck Surfer]

 

[the destroyer of worlds]

I ain't voting for a party that circulates crap like this.  Their convention was a debacle of crap that we know a good portion of the party is all for.  

 

The CONservatives won't fix what ails Canada.   They're more likely to cut taxes, balloon the deficit, then use that to make cuts cuts cuts hurting more people.

Done it before.  Will rinse and repeat. 

 

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

I ain't voting for a party that circulates crap like this.  Their convention was a debacle of crap that we know a good portion of the party is all for.  

 

The CONservatives won't fix what ails Canada.   They're more likely to cut taxes, balloon the deficit, then use that to make cuts cuts cuts hurting more people.

Done it before.  Will rinse and repeat. 

 

 

So you support woke campus censorship ???? pinko. 

Edited September 20, 2023 by Bob Long

[RupertKBD]

3 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

We can only judge him based off what we know, and he hasn't really revealed much.  He has such an acrimonious relationship with the media that he has shown an extremely limited side of what type of government he'd run.  No clue on foreign policy.  No clue on trade.  We have nothing to work off of.  His strategy is to simply "attack, attack, attack" his way to the top.

We know he stood behind the so-called Freedom Convoy...

In absence of the things that you and Hip mention, it's what I'm basing my opinion of him on.

[the destroyer of worlds]

4 minutes ago, RupertKBD said:

We know he stood behind the so-called Freedom Convoy...

In absence of the things that you and Hip mention, it's what I'm basing my opinion of him on.

Yes.  100 %

[aGENT]

13 hours ago, LaBamba said:

they haven’t and it’s time for something new. 

It's not new. It's the same failed, trickle down economics and slash social spending (costs more in the long run to repair the damage), while selling off Canadian resources to foreigners to "balance" the budget that the Cons have done every time they've been in power. All wrapped up in a more hateful, more extreme right, social agenda, with no environmental plan (and a complete lack of accepting how the environment affects the economy).

Change for the sake of change is stupid enough. Changing to something proven to be even worse is....

Again, I'm no Liberal supporter, I'd happily accept a better alternative party. The Cons are not anything resembling that.

Edited September 20, 2023 by aGENT

[King Heffy]

Bottom line is that if the cons want to get consideration from civilized people, they need to concentrate on the economy and completely eliminate any of their barbaric social policies.  Poilivre and his march towards facsism does not solve this issue.  The country simply cannot survive the damage that will be caused by a man as evil as PP.

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

I ain't voting for a party that circulates crap like this.  Their convention was a debacle of crap that we know a good portion of the party is all for.  

 

The CONservatives won't fix what ails Canada.   They're more likely to cut taxes, balloon the deficit, then use that to make cuts cuts cuts hurting more people.

Done it before.  Will rinse and repeat. 

 

"Rebuild our military at home"

Being built

6-7 Arctic Patrol ships 2 of which are already in service 3rd one in the water finishing off.

15 frigates

2 resupply vessels

Multiple Coast Guard ships

66 F-35's on order

7 refueling, and cargo carrying jets, along with troop moving ability.

All under a Liberal government, which is spending more gdp % on the military than Harper ever did.

So just what is the Conservative  Defense plan?

Really- just what and where is it?  I've looked and haven't found it. AS a military supporter I'd love to see it and compare it to what is currently being done.

 

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

2 hours ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

I ain't voting for a party that circulates crap like this.  Their convention was a debacle of crap that we know a good portion of the party is all for.  

 

The CONservatives won't fix what ails Canada.   They're more likely to cut taxes, balloon the deficit, then use that to make cuts cuts cuts hurting more people.

Done it before.  Will rinse and repeat. 

 

What does this even mean?  

[LaBamba]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

It's not new. It's the same failed, trickle down economics and slash social spending (costs more in the long run to repair the damage), while selling off Canadian resources to foreigners to "balance" the budget that the Cons have done every time they've been in power. All wrapped up in a more hateful, more extreme right, social agenda, with no environmental plan (and a complete lack of accepting how the environment affects the economy).

Change for the sake of change is stupid enough. Changing to something proven to be even worse is....

Again, I'm no Liberal supporter, I'd happily accept a better alternative party. The Cons are not anything resembling that.

I’m done with this back and forth banter. We both have different priorities and expectations and that’s cool. I enjoyed debating with you. Although I’ll admit that I’m out on a location in Texas right now waiting on some equipment the last few days and have been drinking Natty lights and eating beef jerky in my truck all day. I’m just going around in circles like a dumbass at this point hahah. I’ve said enough.
Taker easy ole boy.