Canadian Politics Thread

[Sharpshooter]

Discuss all Canadian political issues here. 

[gerg]

canadian politics are an issue. 

[Bounce000]

Everything is expensive

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, Bounce000 said:

Everything is expensive

It is. Sadly for the right, Trudeau didn't actually cause it. They also can't fix it as they're suggesting.

[Bob Long]

damn, this could get tense. Explains why the G20 trip was awkward.

 

Trudeau says ‘credible allegations’ link Indian government to killing on Canadian soil

CNN — 

There are “credible allegations” linking India’s government to the assassination of a Canadian citizen and prominent Sikh leader, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau alleged on Monday.

“Over the past number of weeks, Canadian security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential link between agents of the government of India and the killing of a Canadian citizen Hardeep Singh Nijjar,” said Trudeau, adding his government would take all steps necessary ‘“to hold perpetrators of this murder to account.”

Nijjar was a prominent Sikh leader in British Columbia, and according to local police, he was gunned down in his truck in June by two masked gunmen outside a Sikh temple in Surrey, BC.

 

His death both shocked and outraged the large Sikh community in Canada that now numbers in the hundreds of thousands.

India designated Niijar a terrorist threat several years ago, labeling him part of a separatist movement for Sikhism.

“Canada has declared its deep concerns to the top intelligence and security officials of the Indian government. Last week, at the G20, I brought them personally and directly to Prime Minister Modi in no uncertain terms. any involvement of a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty,” said Trudeau during his speech in parliament, saying this was an ‘extremely serious matter.’

Canadian police have not arrested anyone in connection with Niijar’s murder, but in an August update, police released a statement saying they were now investigating three possible suspects and issued a description of a possible getaway vehicle, asking for the public’s help.

CNN has reached out to the High Commission of India in Ottawa for comment but has not received a reply.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/americas/canada-hardeep-singh-nijjar-india-intl/index.html

 

[24K]

On 9/16/2023 at 1:37 PM, aGENT said:

It is. Sadly for the right, Trudeau didn't actually cause it. They also can't fix it as they're suggesting.

But good for the right that they can still topple Trudeau with it before getting tossed themselves after they exacerbate the problem. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, 24K said:

But good for the right that they can still topple Trudeau with it before getting tossed themselves after they exacerbate the problem. 

Meh, we'll see. Canada does love to remind itself every 10 years or so why the right has no business governing us, but I'm not convinced enough of the population has their heads far enough up their arses to actually vote for the Cons. At least not in a majority.

[LaBamba]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

Meh, we'll see. Canada does love to remind itself every 10 years or so why the right has no business governing us, but I'm not convinced enough of the population has their heads far enough up their arses to actually vote for the Cons. At least not in a majority.

There is no “right” wing government in Canada. If the Canadian conservatives were a party in the US they’d be called socialists. 
 

The most healthy government is a centre Government. That actually use to be the Liberal party. They were the common ground between NDP and Conservatives.

Now the liberals have gone too far to the left and don’t represent the majority of Canadians. 
 

I am politically Centre. Ive voted liberal and I’ve voted conservative. However if I honestly look at what JT has accomplished over the past 8years I can’t find anything tangible that impacts my life positively in any way. 
 

I understand that Covid has planted the seeds for this infatuation debacle and no government has any policies that insulted it during this storm. We all understand that. I just don’t see any kind of plan or policy from the Trudeau government that helped soften the blow or repair the damage. 
 

it’s time to restore the balance. Even if you don’t agree with some of the conservative views we need to try something different to repair our standard of living. There will be enough seats in parliament from the NDP and Liberals to keep the policies in the Centre and appease the majority of Canadians. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by LaBamba

[aGENT]

24 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

There is no “right” wing government in Canada. If the Canadian conservatives were a party in the US they’d be called socialists. 

Well that's just not true. They might not be as extreme-right as some of the folks down South, but they are still right. 

24 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

The most healthy government is a centre Government. That actually use to be the Liberal party. They were the common ground between NDP and Conservatives.

Now the liberals have gone too far to the left and don’t represent the majority of Canadians. 

Fiscally, absolutely. Centrist myself. Socially, environmentally...nope. Equality is not "too far"

24 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

I am politically Centre. Ive voted liberal and I’ve voted conservative. However if I honestly look at what JT has accomplished over the past 8years I can’t find anything tangible that impacts my life positively in any way. 

Got you a pipeline built 

24 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

I understand that Covid has planted the seeds for this infatuation debacle and no government has any policies that insulted it during this storm. We all understand that.

Do we all understand that? It's one of the right's greatest hits, played on repeat.

24 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

I just don’t see any kind of plan or policy from the Trudeau government that helped soften the blow or repair the damage. 

I don't see one from the Cons either. Largely because it's a far bigger problem than any one government. The "damage" (natural economics forces) needs to be "corrected" by people. About the only thing governments could do, that might make a small dent, would be to put a shart-tonne of funding in to public housing. Something neither party seems particularly interested in.

24 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

It’s time to restore the balance. Even if you don’t agree with some of the conservative views we need to try something different to repair our standard of living. There will be enough seats in parliament from the NDP and Liberals to keep the policies in the Centre and appease the majority of Canadians. 

Going from "ok with clear faults" to "way worse, with far more faults" is not restoring balance. Different =/= better.

[LaBamba]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

Well that's just not true. They might not be as extreme-right as some of the folks down South, but they are still right. 

Fiscally, absolutely. Centrist myself. Socially, environmentally...nope. Equality is not "too far"

Got you a pipeline built 

Do we all understand that? It's one of the right's greatest hits, played on repeat.

I don't see one from the Cons either. Largely because it's a far bigger problem than any one government. The "damage" (natural economics forces) needs to be "corrected" by people. About the only thing governments could do, that might make a small dent, would be to put a shart-tonne of funding in to public housing. Something neither party seems particularly interested in.

Going from "ok with clear faults" to "way worse, with far more faults" is not restoring balance. Different =/= better.

Your belief that conservative policy will not improve our current situation is not fact.
The fact is we are seeing the liberal policies ineffectiveness in real time. The only way to put these policies to the test is to activate them. 

Harper had his faults, but he ran Canada like a business. He was a cold stale nerd that thought in dollars. We went thru a global financial crisis unscathed. In fact it strengthened our currency to a point of disadvantage. When you’re a commodity based economy with a dollar on par with the US you’re at a major disadvantage. He should have invested our lucrative oil revenue into infrastructure and alternative energy. He should have created a sovereign wealth fund, but he didn’t and for that I resent him to an extent.
With that being said, Trudeau hasn’t done any of that either. He talks about green infrastructure but where is it? The global inflation is only going to drive the world into the arms of hydrocarbon. We don’t have the wealth to invest in the infrastructure to transition into alternative energy. People can’t comprehend what burning 100,000,000 bbls of oil a day globally looks like. The only way to pay for this transition is to use the our oil wealth. This is exactly what Saudi Arabia is aggressive doing with mega projects like “the line” 

Ironically, voting liberal will only make it harder for us to fund a greener economy because borrowing money with no additional revenue will only devalue our currency and make it harder and harder to get there. 
 

The only thing our giant country with one of the lowest population densities on earth needs to be concerned with right now is inflation. It’s probably the biggest threat to our Country since WW2

[aGENT]

8 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Your belief that conservative policy will not improve our current situation is not fact.
The fact is we are seeing the liberal policies ineffectiveness in real time. The only way to put these policies to the test is to activate them. 

Harper had his faults, but he ran Canada like a business. He was a cold stale nerd that thought in dollars. We went thru a global financial crisis unscathed. In fact it strengthened our currency to a point of disadvantage. When you’re a commodity based economy with a dollar on par with the US you’re at a major disadvantage. He should have invested our lucrative oil revenue into infrastructure and alternative energy. He should have created a sovereign wealth fund, but he didn’t and for that I resent him to an extent.
With that being said, Trudeau hasn’t done any of that either. He talks about green infrastructure but where is it? The global inflation is only going to drive the world into the arms of hydrocarbon. We don’t have the wealth to invest in the infrastructure to transition into alternative energy. People can’t comprehend what burning 100,000,000 bbls of oil a day globally looks like. The only way to pay for this transition is to use the our oil wealth. This is exactly what Saudi Arabia is aggressive doing with mega projects like “the line” 

Ironically, voting liberal will only make it harder for us to fund a greener economy because borrowing money with no additional revenue will only devalue our currency and make it harder and harder to get there. 
 

The only thing our giant country with one of the lowest population densities on earth needs to be concerned with right now is inflation. It’s probably the biggest threat to our Country since WW2

We went through that largely unscathed thanks to policies the Liberal Martin had put in place. Harper in fact wanted to do many of the things (like deregulate banking) that caused the major issues the US had. His idea of balancing the books was to slash social program spending, Coast Guard spending etc (which actually costs more long term to correct the issues funding cuts cost) and sell the Canadian Wheat Board to Saudi's while giving foreign oil companies even more control of our natural resources. He was in fact piss poor and far worse than Trudea at fiscal governance.

Like I said, some Canadians need a reminder every ten years or so, of why the Cons have no business in governance. Add in the bass-ackwards social polcies and laughable environmental plan, and they're a non starter.

Edited September 19, 2023 by aGENT

[LaBamba]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

We went through that largely unscathed thanks to policies the Liberal Martin had put in place. Harper in fact wanted to do many of the things (like deregulate banking) that caused the major issues the US had. His idea of balancing the books was to slash social program spending, Coast Guard spending etc (which actually costs more long term to correct the issues funding cuts cost) and sell the Canadian Wheat Board to Saudi's while giving foreign oil companies even more control of our natural resources. He was in fact piss poor and far worse than Trudea at fiscal governance.

Like I said, some Canadians need a reminder every ten years or so, of why the Cons have no business in governance. Add in the bass-ackwards social polcies and laughable environmental plan, and they're a non starter.

Has the environment improved in the 8 years JT has been in power? Is the carbon tax going to cool off Canada? To think environmental policies are going to do anything but bankrupt us is insane. 

Everything you are saying is just a political narrative. Look at what is actually happening. A carbon tax is lazy and completely uncreative. 
 

a creative liberal solution to green energy would’ve been buying a suncor when oil was $20/bbl and nationalizing oil. Using that revenue to create a sovereign wealth fund and invest in green energy. That would’ve been much cheaper than borrowing money to build a pipeline and driving inflation further with a carbon tax. 
 

this is what I find so funny. He isn’t representing you either. Lol his actions contradict your beliefs as much as the what you “think” the conservatives will. 

[Sharpshooter]

6 hours ago, Bob Long said:

damn, this could get tense. Explains why the G20 trip was awkward.

 

Trudeau says ‘credible allegations’ link Indian government to killing on Canadian soil

CNN — 

There are “credible allegations” linking India’s government to the assassination of a Canadian citizen and prominent Sikh leader, Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau alleged on Monday.

“Over the past number of weeks, Canadian security agencies have been actively pursuing credible allegations of a potential link between agents of the government of India and the killing of a Canadian citizen Hardeep Singh Nijjar,” said Trudeau, adding his government would take all steps necessary ‘“to hold perpetrators of this murder to account.”

Nijjar was a prominent Sikh leader in British Columbia, and according to local police, he was gunned down in his truck in June by two masked gunmen outside a Sikh temple in Surrey, BC.

 

His death both shocked and outraged the large Sikh community in Canada that now numbers in the hundreds of thousands.

India designated Niijar a terrorist threat several years ago, labeling him part of a separatist movement for Sikhism.

“Canada has declared its deep concerns to the top intelligence and security officials of the Indian government. Last week, at the G20, I brought them personally and directly to Prime Minister Modi in no uncertain terms. any involvement of a foreign government in the killing of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty,” said Trudeau during his speech in parliament, saying this was an ‘extremely serious matter.’

Canadian police have not arrested anyone in connection with Niijar’s murder, but in an August update, police released a statement saying they were now investigating three possible suspects and issued a description of a possible getaway vehicle, asking for the public’s help.

CNN has reached out to the High Commission of India in Ottawa for comment but has not received a reply.

 

https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/18/americas/canada-hardeep-singh-nijjar-india-intl/index.html

 

That’s huge, considering the ramifications of such a statement. 
 

Heard Canada expelled an Indian diplomat as well. 
 

We’re certainly living in ‘interesting times’. 

[aGENT]

1 minute ago, LaBamba said:

Has the environment improved in the 8 years JT has been in power? Is the carbon tax going to cool off Canada? To think environmental policies are going to do anything but bankrupt us is insane. 

Everything you are saying is just a political narrative. Look at what is actually happening. A carbon tax is lazy and completely uncreative. 
 

a creative liberal solution to green energy would’ve been buying a suncor when oil was $20/bbl and nationalizing oil. Using that revenue to create a sovereign wealth fund and invest in green energy. That would’ve been much cheaper than borrowing money to build a pipeline and driving inflation further with a carbon tax. 
 

this is what I find so funny. He isn’t representing you either. Lol his actions contradict your beliefs as much as the what you “think” the conservatives will. 

I'm not a liberal supporter. I'm just VERY much anti Cons. None of the parties wholly "represent me". 

The Libs tried to nationalize oil almost half a century ago FYI. Your lot ensured that was never going to happen with its usual short-sightedness and ignorance. Instead of "selling" oil to your fellow Canadians at discount, to further our entire economy, you instead decided we sell it to US fat cats at a discount. Great work as usual.

[LaBamba]

6 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I'm not a liberal supporter. I'm just VERY much anti Cons. None of the parties wholly "represent me". 

The Libs tried to nationalize oil almost half a century ago FYI. Your lot ensured that was never going to happen with its usual short-sightedness and ignorance. Instead of "selling" oil to your fellow Canadians at discount, to further our entire economy, you instead decided we sell it to US fat cats at a discount. Great work as usual.

That’s not how the oil market works my friend. Commodities are not discounted. They are sold on the open market. Of course I know oil was nationalized it was handled by his papa. 

To say you’re anti conservative says you’re close minded. I listen to all points and I want everyone to be happy in Canada. I don’t know how you can fight for equality but hate conservatives simultaneously. Lol

Canada was one of the strongest governments in the world because we always had a beautiful balance between the NDP, Liberals, and conservatives. I can take a little from each party and respect the people that support that. I have my beliefs and you have yours but I want you do be just as happy as I am. Right now we need a leader to help unify. I actually don’t think PP is the guy to do that either, I actually don’t really like the guy. His face is just as punchable as JT’s Something needs to change though and he is change.
I gave JT a chance, cause why would I cheer for his failure. His failure is mine too. 

[24K]

2 hours ago, LaBamba said:

That’s not how the oil market works my friend. Commodities are not discounted. They are sold on the open market. Of course I know oil was nationalized it was handled by his papa. 

To say you’re anti conservative says you’re close minded. I listen to all points and I want everyone to be happy in Canada. I don’t know how you can fight for equality but hate conservatives simultaneously. Lol

Canada was one of the strongest governments in the world because we always had a beautiful balance between the NDP, Liberals, and conservatives. I can take a little from each party and respect the people that support that. I have my beliefs and you have yours but I want you do be just as happy as I am. Right now we need a leader to help unify. I actually don’t think PP is the guy to do that either, I actually don’t really like the guy. His face is just as punchable as JT’s Something needs to change though and he is change.
I gave JT a chance, cause why would I cheer for his failure. His failure is mine too. 

People don't like the cons cause of their social conservative stances like bringing back the abortion debate when no majority of Canadians asked for it. 

You clearly look mainly at the economic side of things but diminish the social side. Like it or not, a lot people vote based on social issues as most do not have a good grasp of economics and what a gonvernment can and cannot do and their policies consequences. 

That is why a lot of people want the progressive conservatives back before its merger with reform that brought the social cons into the equation. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by 24K

[Spring Salmon]

8 minutes ago, 24K said:

People don't like the cons cause of their social conservative stances like bringing back the abortion debate when no majority of Canadians asked for it. 

You clearly look mainpy at the economic side of things but diminish the social side. Like it or not, a lot people vote based on social issues as most do not have a good grasp of economics and what a gonvernment can and cannot do and their policies consequences. 

That is why aot people want the progressive conservatives back before its merger with reform that brought the social cons into the equation. 

The cons aren't bringing back abortion talk. That's just something the liberals and media say when liberals are struggling in the polls and some people believe it right away. Harper was in power for around 10 years and never did anything about it. Why would they do something now?

[LaBamba]

26 minutes ago, 24K said:

People don't like the cons cause of their social conservative stances like bringing back the abortion debate when no majority of Canadians asked for it. 

You clearly look mainpy at the economic side of things but diminish the social side. Like it or not, a lot people vote based on social issues as most do not have a good grasp of economics and what a gonvernment can and cannot do and their policies consequences. 

That is why aot people want the progressive conservatives back before its merger with reform that brought the social cons into the equation. 

worrying about social issues over the economy right now would be like getting run over by a car and worrying about your smokes getting squashed while lower intestine is tangled in your bike spokes. 

Edited September 19, 2023 by LaBamba

[aGENT]

34 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

That’s not how the oil market works my friend. Commodities are not discounted. They are sold on the open market. Of course I know oil was nationalized it was handled by his papa. 

To say you’re anti conservative says you’re close minded. I listen to all points and I want everyone to be happy in Canada. I don’t know how you can fight for equality but hate conservatives simultaneously. Lol

Canada was one of the strongest governments in the world because we always had a beautiful balance between the NDP, Liberals, and conservatives. I can take a little from each party and respect the people that support that. I have my beliefs and you have yours but I want you do be just as happy as I am. Right now we need a leader to help unify. I actually don’t think PP is the guy to do that either, I actually don’t really like the guy. His face is just as punchable as JT’s Something needs to change though and he is change.
I gave JT a chance, cause why would I cheer for his failure. His failure is mine too. 

When conservative actually stood for the environment, fiscal conservatism etc.. Sure, they brought something to the table.

That's not today's conservatives. Can't support what they currently stand for. It's toxic and bad for the country and it's people. 

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

worrying about social issues over the economy right now would be like getting run over by a car and worrying about your smokes getting squashed while lower intestine is tangled in your bike spokes. 

The modern history of the conservative party is actually worse fiscal management than the Liberals.

[LaBamba]

1 minute ago, aGENT said:

When conservative actually stood for the environment, fiscal conservatism etc.. Sure, they brought something to the table.

That's not today's conservatives. Can't support what they currently stand for. It's toxic and bad for the country and it's people. 

With all do respect, that doesn’t make you more important. 
 

A lot of these people live a different life than you do and you cannot relate to their lifestyle. If you were 40-50 year old logger your entire life with a family to provide for wouldn’t  you be a conservative? 

conservatives (for the most part) are the blue collar people on the tractor, turning wrenches, framing your houses. those people should have a voice just like you do.

You are no better than they are

you’re both just as stubborn but on opposite sides of spectrum. 

[Cold]

9 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

conservatives (for the most part) are the blue collar people on the tractor, turning wrenches, framing your houses. those people should have a voice just like you do.

Traditionally the blue collar workers fought long and hard for unions, sort of the opposite of the conservative platform fiscally.

Now the Social policies regarding such things as abortion, equality, gun control etc. may align with  “some” of the blue collar workers.

 

[LaBamba]

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

The modern history of the conservative party is actually worse fiscal management than the Liberals.

How on earth could you possibly have the data to support that? 
 

They all had completely different economic landscapes. The economy is fluid, economic policy in 2007 is a completely scenario with unrelated challenges and advantages. Therefore we are completely unable to compare. 
 

Harper had high commodity prices that lead to a higher currency. Both an advantage and disadvantage during the global recession. 
JT has a low currency, which is a huge advantage, in trade/ investment. He also has high commodity prices which has never diverged from the CAD. it’s usually low currency because of low commodity prices (we are a commodity based economy)

imagine if a capitalist like Harper had low currency with high commodity prices. 
 

This is why your argument is invalid, completely different environment. 

JT however,  created a landscape where commodities are un-investable. That is why our currency isn’t following the BBL. 
 

He is moving away from oil, ya ok fine. But how has he replaced it? What is the plan? He has no plan. He just keeps borrowing. 

[LaBamba]

4 minutes ago, Cold said:

Traditionally the blue collar workers fought long and hard for unions, sort of the opposite of the conservative platform fiscally.

Now the Social policies regarding such things as abortion, equality, gun control etc. may align with  “some” of the blue collar workers.

 

You’re thinking about factories. That’s urban. We are talking about the prairies here. There isn’t a union of canola farmers 

[StanleyCupOneDay]

Trudeau has done a decent job as PM navigating a storm no other Canadian leader has faced in over a century with very low deaths from COVID, but it’s clear 10 years is the shelf life of any leader in Canada and he needs to step down before the next election. If he doesn’t then Canada is going to be led by the guy who has been and will continue trying to turn Canadian politics into ugly American politics in order to gain power and if Poilievre wins I am guaranteeing you Canada is crossing a line it can’t uncross (and no this wouldn’t happen with O’Toole, Harper, Charest or even Scheer before you accuse me of bias).

 

Once Trump-lite, “support the freedom convoy who took the economy of our country hostage over a political issue and damaged it by billions”, “it’s ok for white nationalists to support me”, “all vaccine mandates should be banned”, becomes acceptable, there is no more unity in this country. There’s no more difference of opinion, there’s no more agreeing to disagree, it’s going to be every single day of his tenure with the 60-65% left of the country fighting tooth and nail against the 30-40% right of the country and vice versa. How do I know this? Look what happened after Trump got elected and what the US looks like today long after he’s left office.

 

See what’s happening down South and ask yourself if that’s what you want here irrespective of your ideology or beliefs, because it’s coming if the current conservative leader wins election. I know this warning will fall on many deaf ears and many here will still vote for him, but when you see your neighbors turn against each other, your schools becoming culture war battle zones, your families torn apart and people you love and care about completely cutting you out of their life forever based on your vote (and this goes both ways with left and right voters, it’s what happened in the US), don’t say I didn’t warn you.

Come back to this post if he wins and I hope with every single fiber of my body that I will be wrong on everything I’ve said. That I was over exaggerating and hyperbolic. That nothing really changed. I’d love nothing more than to not have this scenario come to fruition, that Canadians won’t go into their tribes and refuse to be any part of the other because there’s no going back if that powder keg is lit. Our country would be changed forever. I hope everyone gets to serve me a mountain of crow from this post, but I truly fear my plate will be empty.

Edited September 22, 2023 by StanleyCupOneDay