Is Kuzmenko negative value now ?

[Blue]

I want him to be here and succeed. But I think it's already a hopeless situation with him and Tocchet. 

 

What is his value ? 

 

Just like Boeser last year , teams are going to low ball us. I can't see anyone offering more than a 3rd round pick. 

 

What's the minimum you'd want for him ? A 2nd ?

[Nucker67]

Kuzmenko is a 27-year old undrafted winger who has 4 goals in 25 games this year. And he's making $5.5.

 

I don't think he's getting VAN a 2nd, or even a 3rd. My guess is it will be a player-for-player trade. VAN might have to add and/or retain.

 

(e.g.)

 

Kuzmenko (15% retained) and a 5th (2025) to SEA for Larsson

 

Kraken have no cap space, so the $ would have to work for them as well. 

[Hammertime]

37 minutes ago, Blue said:

I want him to be here and succeed. But I think it's already a hopeless situation with him and Tocchet. 

 

What is his value ? 

 

Just like Boeser last year , teams are going to low ball us. I can't see anyone offering more than a 3rd round pick. 

 

What's the minimum you'd want for him ? A 2nd ?

He was a free asset we got a nearly 40g season out of him. That in its self is a win.  He's a very gifted offensive player with a nose for back door tap ins. 

 

I think if Tampa is out of the playoffs and it sounds like their not re upping Stamkos. Kuzz could be a great fit there. If Tampa retained enough to make the cap work Stamkos would be the type of rental that could have lasting effect on our core and keep our inexperienced group on track mentally in the playoffs. 

 

Something like Kuzz 1.5m retained that would carry over to next year for Stamkos 50% retained + Perbix.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Hammertime

[Jess]

No way he's negative value. He's obviously below his mean level right now and will likely return to somewhere between last year and this year. Any astute hockey mind will see that and factor it into his value.

[Drive-By Body Pierce]

Still relatively new to the NHL, I would say he still has upside with the current and ongoing experience. But he's clearly not young, by current NHL standards.

 

Maybe it's just the (NHL) sophomore slump, and he can improve his continued work ethic and attention to Tocchet details.

 

 

[Blue]

39 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

Kuzmenko is a 27-year old undrafted winger who has 4 goals in 25 games this year. And he's making $5.5.

 

I don't think he's getting VAN a 2nd, or even a 3rd.

 

You are aware that this undrafted winger got 39 goals in his first year in the NHL? Its just funny how you leave that out. As if every tweener and their dog scores 30 let alone 40

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Spoiler

 

[Sativika]

36 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

No way he's negative value. He's obvious below his mean level right now and will likely return to somewhere between last year and this year. Any astute hockey mind will see that and factor it into his value.

 

Coming in as an 'older' rookie and showing his goods right off the hop; 39 goals is nothing to sneer at. Sure he's struggling now and not in RT's favour. He is giving him every chance to succeed. Everything Kuz is going through right now is just gonna make him better. If Tochett doesn't lean on him, how is he supposed to get better in the NHL? I mean he was a KHL'er before us. NHL is waaayy different. You know................

 

"This is the way."

 

35 minutes ago, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

Still relatively new to the NHL, I would say he still has upside with the current and ongoing experience. But he's clearly not young, by current NHL standards.

 

Maybe it's just the (NHL) sophomore slump, and he can improve his continued work ethic and attention to Tocchet details.

 

 

 

Well he fits the age gauge, if you will, with management's plans. And yea, it is his 2nd season in the NHL, so you could bring it down to the ol' NHL sophomore slump schtick. Yes. It is an actual phenomena!

 

I've got every hope and confidence for Kuz to get through this and be a great player for us. If anything, he's an asset that I'm sure many other teams will covet. But....uhhhh.....Not right at this moment.....ahem.........

 

Go Kuz Go!!!!!

Edited December 11, 2023 by Sativika

[Jeremy Hronek]

2 hours ago, Blue said:

 

 

What's the minimum you'd want for him ? A 2nd ?

 

I think Kuzmenko would flourish in a "run and gun" system like Edmonton has.  

 

I would strongly consider Kuzmenko for Evander Kane but I don't think Edmonton accepts.  

[Captain Hughes]

But if u put him and Myers together that's a positive 

[Miss Korea]

A 3rd round pick isn't negative value.  We even sold Beauvillier for positive value.

[Drakrami]

Why the hell are people so low on Kuzmenko. The dude is skilled and he didn't fluke his 39 goals last season. 

 

The team is winning, enjoy the moment, stop overworking your brains thinking of ways trying to improve the team. Some times doing more doesn't make the team better. 

Edited December 11, 2023 by Drakrami

[King Heffy]

5 minutes ago, Drakrami said:

Why the hell are people so low on Kuzmenko. The dude is skilled and he didn't fluke his 39 goals last season. 

 

The team is winning, enjoy the moment, stop overworking your brains thinking of ways trying to improve the team. Some times doing more doesn't make the team better. 

The problem is the coach is setting him up to fail.  If management won't fire Tocchet, trading Kuz before we have a repeat of the Ballard situation with AV makes sense.

[Gawdzukes]

4 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Kuzmenko is a 27-year old undrafted winger who has 4 goals in 25 games this year. And he's making $5.5.

 

I don't think he's getting VAN a 2nd, or even a 3rd. My guess is it will be a player-for-player trade. VAN might have to add and/or retain.

 

(e.g.)

 

Kuzmenko (15% retained) and a 5th (2025) to SEA for Larsson

 

Kraken have no cap space, so the $ would have to work for them as well. 

 

I like that Larsson deal but I doubt Seattle would go for it. Maybe though. I would do a deal for Tarasenko possibly. He's playing pretty well in Ottawa. He's a sniper with some serious size. Would look good on Petey's wing I think.

 

I like Kuz but if we're trading him we should pump up his value a bit and get him back on the first line for awhile. I could see him pull in a first or second at the TDL for a team looking for scoring.

[Rounoush]

Kuzmenko will get back to form. I'm not worried.

[DelPiLeo]

Hope the management won't give up on Kuz so quick just because he didn't fit to the team's tactical yet. It wasn't a fluke to score 39 goals in a season, he got the talent and the character that we don't often have, what he needs now is the assist from the coaching team to make adjustment on his game. It might take some times but he will be fine.

[Plsdontdoit]

I want him back with Petey since Peteys seems to be back in top form and I believe he can get kuzz going. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

It's still very early days, I wouldn't judge him so harshly just yet. Look at Garland - the bum has produced like 10 goals and 30 points for most of his career yet he's on a 5M cap hit.

 

Kuzmenko dropped 39 goals last year and hasn't produced anywhere near as much this year, but is still hovering around what, a 40-50 point pace? You don't just sell off a player like that after 20 average (not bad) games.

 

We're seeing JT Miller hit his prime as he turns 30, why give up on Kuzmenko who has proven he can be an elite scorer in this league?

[OldFaithfulcap]

He's a scorer being asked to be a two way and often just a grinder. It highlights tocchet's lack of creativity as a coach. The whole balanced line thing never works long term. PDG for example worked hard but he can't create, it'll be the same with lafferty soon.

 

Kuzzy, isn't a great backchecker, neither is ovechkin, mcdavid, jack hughes etc etc. But Kuzzy with his confidence can blow past 2 guys, he can spin and get open and finish. 

 

Tocchet's angry about him already in press conferences and i don't see tocchet changing his ways. I think they'll move kuz (prob with salary retention eesh) and he'll light it up elsewhere in a team desperate for scoring. Probably for a 3rd.

 

If this happens then we are in huge danger of being a one line team, which is why we keep losing to the better ones since tocchet has killed kuzzy's game. Pettey needs a scorer else he'll get doubled. 

 

Tocchet isn't the worst coach, he's raised the floor, but he's lowering the ceiling every game. Phoenix 2.0 we are becoming, it's all goaltending and dumping and checking and i don't see pettey wanting to play in this system.

 

[spook007]

6 hours ago, King Heffy said:

The problem is the coach is setting him up to fail.  If management won't fire Tocchet, trading Kuz before we have a repeat of the Ballard situation with AV makes sense.

Why on earth would they fire Tocchet, Heffy?

[spook007]

Don't think they are giving up on Kuz, just like they didn't give up on Boeser or Garland or most of the players...

However, that is not to say, if a deal came along, which they thought would improve the team going forward, they wouldn't pull the trigger...

A low cost upcoming RHD (with some term), or a rugged forward, who plays Tocchet style hockey, may be of interest going forward...

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

He's a scorer being asked to be a two way and often just a grinder. It highlights tocchet's lack of creativity as a coach. The whole balanced line thing never works long term. PDG for example worked hard but he can't create, it'll be the same with lafferty soon.

 

Kuzzy, isn't a great backchecker, neither is ovechkin, mcdavid, jack hughes etc etc. But Kuzzy with his confidence can blow past 2 guys, he can spin and get open and finish. 

 

Tocchet's angry about him already in press conferences and i don't see tocchet changing his ways. I think they'll move kuz (prob with salary retention eesh) and he'll light it up elsewhere in a team desperate for scoring. Probably for a 3rd.

 

If this happens then we are in huge danger of being a one line team, which is why we keep losing to the better ones since tocchet has killed kuzzy's game. Pettey needs a scorer else he'll get doubled. 

 

Tocchet isn't the worst coach, he's raised the floor, but he's lowering the ceiling every game. Phoenix 2.0 we are becoming, it's all goaltending and dumping and checking and i don't see pettey wanting to play in this system.

 

Petey wants to play on a winning team.   RT overachieved in ARI.    Everyone was freaking out in the pre-season because we weren't winning games.   Then we had the best start in club history.   EPs had slumps with every coach he's had so far.    And had stretches where he's not on.    Also said before the season, that we wants to dedicate more time playing defense, knowing full well that will effect his individual stats.      
 

Lafferty is working with EP.   Maybe it's not a permanent.   But it's working.   Ilya Mikheyev, was Bieksa's pick for a breakout season, with our without EP.   And having followed his career since TO's days, he's not chopped liver.  A solid middle six swiss army knife.   That plays both sides of the puck.  

 

I will take win one, lose one, instead of a losing streak, followed by a winning streak every day of the week.    We aren't getting blown out.   I don't find the hockey "boring".    The whole purpose of having a system, is for when the teams tired (which they have been after Oct/Nov schedule) they can rely on it.   And each other more.   

 

I'm sure they want Kuzmenko in their top six.  It's on him to work through it.    And make the best of the opportunities when they arise.   
 

That ARI team, wasn't very good.   This one's better.   And should get even better the way Allvins pushing the envelope.   

[CanucksJay]

7 hours ago, King Heffy said:

The problem is the coach is setting him up to fail.  If management won't fire Tocchet, trading Kuz before we have a repeat of the Ballard situation with AV makes sense.

Lol he's baaaack. 

 

 

[Boudrias]

2 hours ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

He's a scorer being asked to be a two way and often just a grinder. It highlights tocchet's lack of creativity as a coach. The whole balanced line thing never works long term. PDG for example worked hard but he can't create, it'll be the same with lafferty soon.

 

Kuzzy, isn't a great backchecker, neither is ovechkin, mcdavid, jack hughes etc etc. But Kuzzy with his confidence can blow past 2 guys, he can spin and get open and finish. 

 

Tocchet's angry about him already in press conferences and i don't see tocchet changing his ways. I think they'll move kuz (prob with salary retention eesh) and he'll light it up elsewhere in a team desperate for scoring. Probably for a 3rd.

 

If this happens then we are in huge danger of being a one line team, which is why we keep losing to the better ones since tocchet has killed kuzzy's game. Pettey needs a scorer else he'll get doubled. 

 

Tocchet isn't the worst coach, he's raised the floor, but he's lowering the ceiling every game. Phoenix 2.0 we are becoming, it's all goaltending and dumping and checking and i don't see pettey wanting to play in this system.

 

This is exactly the system Petey wants to play for. He is one of the best 200’ forwards on this team. While Kuz has value there are any number of players who have had great season and then faded away. It is up to Kuz to find his way. PA has to weigh his options in deciding Kuz’s future with the Canucks. Team has to come first and there can’t be any free rides.

[Alflives]

14 minutes ago, Boudrias said:

This is exactly the system Petey wants to play for. He is one of the best 200’ forwards on this team. While Kuz has value there are any number of players who have had great season and then faded away. It is up to Kuz to find his way. PA has to weigh his options in deciding Kuz’s future with the Canucks. Team has to come first and there can’t be any free rides.

Yup. Went through this last season with Horfat Wallet.