Discussion: Kuzmenko Plight; as Jannik sees it........

[Sativika]

https://www.canucksdaily.com/nhl-team/vancouver-canucks/LATEST-Former-Canuck-criticizes-the-Canucks-staff-for-their-handling-of-Andrei-Kuzmenko

 

Okay. You've read it. You've given it some thought. So let's talk about it..............Do y'all think Jannik Hansen be correct, or do you think he's off base. I'll start.

 

I listen to a lot of Canucks oriented. sports talk type of programs. I especially reserve a spot for Jannik. Dude has a lot to say and doesn't hold back. I like that. As to what he has to say regarding Kuzy? I agree with him.

 

Kuzy, In my mind, still holds much value for our team. Ya' cannot in any way discount what he's done for us. As to what he's done for us lately? Obviously that's up for debate.

 

Dude is not a PDG, Blueger, or a Hoggy. Dude's not the tenacious checking type. Nor is he a Garland, JTM, or Petey. Dude's not a driver of plays. However, he's a net presence winger, who has good hands, and a talent for scoring goals. It's baffling that RT doesn't use Kuzy as such. 

 

I certainly don't profess to being more knowledgeable than NHL coaches. Cuz' I'm really, just a Fanboy. I love my Canucks. But really?!?!?!?!? Kuz has sat long enough. Let 'em play I say!!!!!!!

 

Go Canucks Go!!!!!

 

 

[tas]

I'll take the words of the player's agent and trust a coaching staff that has 6000+ games of experience as players to know what's best for the player over the opinion of loudmouth jannik hansen who is nothing more than a spectator like you or I at this point. 

[Mackcanuck]

I feel Tock is hoping for this (It's his style of Coaching)

 

 

PRIORITIES

For anyone who thinks Andrei Kuzmenko’s healthy scratch is the biggest sub-plot on the Canucks, we disagree. (See first-place NHL, above). But we will offer this: Joshua is an outstanding example of a player who used coach Rick Tocchet’s tough love and his own timeout to re-assess then re-set his game. And Joshua has used every game since then to do everything in his power to ensure the coach doesn’t scratch him again.

It is difficult to find two players on the Canucks more opposed in style than Kuzmenko and Joshua. But much of Tocchet’s present demands on Kuzmenko, the $5.5-million winger who on Thursday sat out a second straight game, were also put to Joshua: more engagement, intensity, consistency.

 

Joshua was a healthy scratch on Nov. 2 and, starting with a game against Dallas two nights later, hasn’t been out of the lineup since. He logged a season-high 18:04 of ice time on Thursday, while scoring his eighth goal of the season – two more than Kuzmenko with 114 fewer minutes of power-play time – and registering his second two-point game in a week. He also led the Canucks with five hits, bringing his season total to 101, fifth-most in the league.

Joshua will never score 39 goals in a season like Kuzmenko did last year. But right now, the 27-year-old American is indispensable and headed towards a huge pay increase when he becomes an unrestricted free agent on July 1 after earning $825,000 this season.

 

 

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/canucks-takeaways-even-in-loss-life-line-still-pumping-energy/

[DrJockitch]

CanucksArmy did an interesting look with NHL EDGE. 
‘It was interesting as one of the things they looked at was speed bursts, how frequently players were hitting speeds. Interested metric as measure of effort. 
‘Kuz was atrocious. Which they took as meaningful to fitness but to me it just says he is tentative, over thinking things and scared to commit as well as just not playing hard. 
‘Hoping he gets sorted he is a talented player that we need on team but this year he has been Wellwoodian in his approach and Tocch isn’t having it. 

[PeteyBOI]

9 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

CanucksArmy did an interesting look with NHL EDGE. 
‘It was interesting as one of the things they looked at was speed bursts, how frequently players were hitting speeds. Interested metric as measure of effort. 
‘Kuz was atrocious. Which they took as meaningful to fitness but to me it just says he is tentative, over thinking things and scared to commit as well as just not playing hard. 
‘Hoping he gets sorted he is a talented player that we need on team but this year he has been Wellwoodian in his approach and Tocch isn’t having it. 

thanks for this... what this tells me is that kuzmenko is being lazy... he is often found down low or along the wall in the Ozone and he needs to be back checking hard...

[PeteyBOI]

19 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

CanucksArmy did an interesting look with NHL EDGE. 
‘It was interesting as one of the things they looked at was speed bursts, how frequently players were hitting speeds. Interested metric as measure of effort. 
‘Kuz was atrocious. Which they took as meaningful to fitness but to me it just says he is tentative, over thinking things and scared to commit as well as just not playing hard. 
‘Hoping he gets sorted he is a talented player that we need on team but this year he has been Wellwoodian in his approach and Tocch isn’t having it. 

I just checked edge myself... its very telling... a player that is skating so slow and also has such low miles/60 does not look good.

[Jeremy Hronek]

1 hour ago, Sativika said:

https://www.canucksdaily.com/nhl-team/vancouver-canucks/LATEST-Former-Canuck-criticizes-the-Canucks-staff-for-their-handling-of-Andrei-Kuzmenko

 

Okay. You've read it. You've given it some thought. So let's talk about it..............Do y'all think Jannik Hansen be correct, or do you think he's off base. I'll start.

 

I listen to a lot of Canucks oriented. sports talk type of programs. I especially reserve a spot for Jannik. Dude has a lot to say and doesn't hold back. I like that. As to what he has to say regarding Kuzy? I agree with him.

 

Kuzy, In my mind, still holds much value for our team. Ya' cannot in any way discount what he's done for us. As to what he's done for us lately? Obviously that's up for debate.

 

Dude is not a PDG, Blueger, or a Hoggy. Dude's not the tenacious checking type. Nor is he a Garland, JTM, or Petey. Dude's not a driver of plays. However, he's a net presence winger, who has good hands, and a talent for scoring goals. It's baffling that RT doesn't use Kuzy as such. 

 

I certainly don't profess to being more knowledgeable than NHL coaches. Cuz' I'm really, just a Fanboy. I love my Canucks. But really?!?!?!?!? Kuz has sat long enough. Let 'em play I say!!!!!!!

 

Go Canucks Go!!!!!

 

 

 

Agreed with Hansen.  

 

Although I love Tocchet in terms of his structured system and holding players accountable, a truly elite coach knows how to cater systems to players' individual strengths (i.e. Scotty Bowman, Joel Quennville, etc.). Even Alain Vigneault and Pat Quinn had the ability to do this. Kuzmenko might not be a 40 goal scorer with a non-inflated shooting percentage, but he'd still likely be a 20-25 goal scorer.  What we're seeing with Kuzmenko is Travis Green/Nikolai Goldobin all over again but on a larger scale.  

 

I love Tocchet and what he's done for this team but they really ought to move Kuzmenko instead of trying to fit square pegs into round holes. There's a reason why Michael Jackson and Elvis Priestly's daughter were a mismatch.  

[Slegr]

I'm not a big fan of Hansen, especially since he's tried to be some sort of Canuck analyst in retirement, so haven't read what he has to say.  But I'll say this: I haven't noticed Kuzmenko to be the defensive liability that he's been made out to be. He seems hungry and engaged whenever he's out there, and I've seen him battle hard for pucks, etc. The guy is a plus player in both his seasons. I'm far from an NHL coach, so I'm clearly missing where he's not up-to-snuff, but it sure is tough watching such an offensively gifted guy have to sit so much.

[Jester13]

1 hour ago, DrJockitch said:

CanucksArmy did an interesting look with NHL EDGE. 
‘It was interesting as one of the things they looked at was speed bursts, how frequently players were hitting speeds. Interested metric as measure of effort. 
‘Kuz was atrocious. Which they took as meaningful to fitness but to me it just says he is tentative, over thinking things and scared to commit as well as just not playing hard. 
‘Hoping he gets sorted he is a talented player that we need on team but this year he has been Wellwoodian in his approach and Tocch isn’t having it. 

This matches the eye test. Kuzy is out of shape. I question his in-season eating plan while on the road, as last year, he looked like he put on weight from eating poorly and then his skating declined. I see the same this year as well. He doesn't skate hard, ever. He has zero stamina. Whip him into shape or trade him if he can't have it sink in on how to be a pro at the NHL level.

[Ballisticsports]

The coach must know what he is doing

The players came in prepared and were told not to treat the 4 months off as a holiday

If the players want to only play lip service to win, that it would be on them, things were about to change

 

Kuz who scored 39 goals on a losing team and a unsustainable goal % in his career KHL and NHL who can't or won't buy into a Team game, while others have and are at the top of the League at Christmas (when was the last time of that) while leading the league in goals ?

If he can't adjust, then he has no place on this team, the team is better off when he won't play the right way and someone else has to leave where they were to be and cause havoc and everyone not knowing where the other will be is unprofessional and beer league play

I care more about the team game than individual ones

 

We might not have the best team, but the players are playing and believing in themselves and buying into a system, where every rush needn't be a goal, but play the right way to stop them and our goals will come

No team is perfect, Instead of picking on any negatives (which I am confident any that they have, management would want to improve on) we should be happy with the schedule we had and poor team play for 10 years and to be where we are as of right now, and that the Kuz problem is up to him to resolve (while here), he has a fun personality and should relish in being a part of this fun environment and do everything possible to be a part of it

[Comox Blaster]

Just a thought?  Power play has gone south without Kuz out there.  

Also, wonder what it would be like putting Joshua in front of the net on the power play?

Thoughts?

[Mackcanuck]

Lets just go back to August in Bali, Malaysia

 

https://www.canucksdaily.com/LATEST-Andrei-Kuzmenko-off-ice-endeavours-causing-a-stir-He-being-called-out-and-will-be-under-scrutiny-270568

 

Andrei Kuzmenko's training strategies have been the talk of the summer, and with the team's training camp about to kick off, he'll definitely be scrutinized for it.
 

[Bob Long]

2 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

I love Tocchet and what he's done for this team but they really ought to move Kuzmenko instead of trying to fit square pegs into round holes. There's a reason why Michael Jackson and Elvis Priestly's daughter were a mismatch.  

 

God I hope it's a different reason.

[canucks curse]

5 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

CanucksArmy did an interesting look with NHL EDGE. 
‘It was interesting as one of the things they looked at was speed bursts, how frequently players were hitting speeds. Interested metric as measure of effort. 
‘Kuz was atrocious. Which they took as meaningful to fitness but to me it just says he is tentative, over thinking things and scared to commit as well as just not playing hard. 
‘Hoping he gets sorted he is a talented player that we need on team but this year he has been Wellwoodian in his approach and Tocch isn’t having it. 

Not surprised by this at all, Kuz is not fast. He is a swiller winger who likes to play below the hash marks and scores from there, the main issue is teams are giving him a harder time below the has marks than last year, this is just a sophomore slump but it will continue until he works harder and does the things Toch and staff ask of him

[Phil_314]

4 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Agreed with Hansen.  

Although I love Tocchet in terms of his structured system and holding players accountable, a truly elite coach knows how to cater systems to players' individual strengths (i.e. Scotty Bowman, Joel Quennville, etc.). Even Alain Vigneault and Pat Quinn had the ability to do this. Kuzmenko might not be a 40 goal scorer with a non-inflated shooting percentage, but he'd still likely be a 20-25 goal scorer.  What we're seeing with Kuzmenko is Travis Green/Nikolai Goldobin all over again but on a larger scale.  

Yeah, not every skilled winger ought to be treated like he's fit to become a two-way winger.  As great as it would be, expecting a skilled Russian to fit a heavy forechecking system that doesn't let him maximize his individual skillset isn't a recipe for success.

[iceman1964]

6 hours ago, Sativika said:

https://www.canucksdaily.com/nhl-team/vancouver-canucks/LATEST-Former-Canuck-criticizes-the-Canucks-staff-for-their-handling-of-Andrei-Kuzmenko

 

Okay. You've read it. You've given it some thought. So let's talk about it..............Do y'all think Jannik Hansen be correct, or do you think he's off base. I'll start.

 

I listen to a lot of Canucks oriented. sports talk type of programs. I especially reserve a spot for Jannik. Dude has a lot to say and doesn't hold back. I like that. As to what he has to say regarding Kuzy? I agree with him.

 

Kuzy, In my mind, still holds much value for our team. Ya' cannot in any way discount what he's done for us. As to what he's done for us lately? Obviously that's up for debate.

 

Dude is not a PDG, Blueger, or a Hoggy. Dude's not the tenacious checking type. Nor is he a Garland, JTM, or Petey. Dude's not a driver of plays. However, he's a net presence winger, who has good hands, and a talent for scoring goals. It's baffling that RT doesn't use Kuzy as such. 

 

I certainly don't profess to being more knowledgeable than NHL coaches. Cuz' I'm really, just a Fanboy. I love my Canucks. But really?!?!?!?!? Kuz has sat long enough. Let 'em play I say!!!!!!!

 

Go Canucks Go!!!!!

 

 

I totally agree with Hans for a change on this one, if we traded Kuz for a pick/prospect whatever but watch us get a few injuries and slide down the standings you'd see people turn on JR/PA/TOC so fast it would make your head spin.

 Actually the smart thing to do would be to give him a lot of extra time with Gonchar and help him round out his game as he's been a pure goal scorer all his life and now he's been asked to change all that in the fastest league in the world and if people think that's easy and can be done overnight then their just that STUPID but it started in the media and in Vancouver that's as stupid as it gets, nothing new but same ole' and fans will beat on it like a dead horse over and over expecting it to resurrect and come to life somehow.

 Yep same old shi_, different day, different player, whipping boy 101..

Edited December 22, 2023 by iceman1964

[Gawdzukes]

I usually agree with Jannick quite a bit but he really doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes in this case.

 

First off, Kuzmenko approached the off-season as a total joke, parading around in Bali, training by boxing and playing around in twitter like some teenage girl trying to be famous. He certainly deserves to be in the doghouse imo. He's lazy, floats around, and doesn't put in the effort the rest of the team does. This is all on him to decide if he wants to be a difference maker in the NHL or just cruise around scoring goals on losing hockey teams.

[MeanSeanBean]

14 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I usually agree with Jannick quite a bit but he really doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes in this case.

 

First off, Kuzmenko approached the off-season as a total joke, parading around in Bali, training by boxing and playing around in twitter like some teenage girl trying to be famous. He certainly deserves to be in the doghouse imo. He's lazy, floats around, and doesn't put in the effort the rest of the team does. This is all on him to decide if he wants to be a difference maker in the NHL or just cruise around scoring goals on losing hockey teams.

I don't know how a professional hockey player doesn't accidentally get more then 1 hit every 15 games... It's honestly impressive, in a depressing way, how he's been able to avoid any contact at all this season.

[Neerlynormal]

30 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I usually agree with Jannick quite a bit but he really doesn't know what's going on behind the scenes in this case.

 

First off, Kuzmenko approached the off-season as a total joke, parading around in Bali, training by boxing and playing around in twitter like some teenage girl trying to be famous. He certainly deserves to be in the doghouse imo. He's lazy, floats around, and doesn't put in the effort the rest of the team does. This is all on him to decide if he wants to be a difference maker in the NHL or just cruise around scoring goals on losing hockey teams.

I feel privileged here, having someone that knows what is going on behind the scenes.

What else do you know that no-one else has heard of?

[Gawdzukes]

17 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

I don't know how a professional hockey player doesn't accidentally get more then 1 hit every 15 games... It's honestly impressive, in a depressing way, how he's been able to avoid any contact at all this season.

 

Wow, I didn't know that one. That's like when Tanev didn't get a penalty 3 years in a row or something like that lol. That is pretty crazy. It's like his attitude is he wants to make a fancy play ... and that's it, the end. 

[Gawdzukes]

3 minutes ago, Neerlynormal said:

I feel privileged here, having someone that knows what is going on behind the scenes.

What else do you know that no-one else has heard of?

 

Oh many many things. You're reading comprehension is not strong though. I never said I knew things behind the scenes (I just said Hansen didn't either) but you got lucky because I just happen to be like the number 1 insider for the team.

 

Garland loves beets, which is a little weird. Joshua is considering re-painting his place a mauve and feature wall in an off green color. Also a bit weird. Gonchar prefers not to wear gonch ... now that one is a little personal so I'll stop there.

 

Also, if you use common sense, which doesn't require my super fantastic insider info, you can infer a couple things. Namely, Hansen is not part of the team, therefore he doesn't know the exact directions and practices that Rick Tocchet has been working on with Kuzmenko. So he doesn't really know if RT is being ultra harsh in regards to zero mistake hockey, or if Kuzmenko is just simply not even attempting to do what is asked of him, to the point he's being benched. One thing I do know though is that his pre-season looked like a joke and he doesn't appear to be dialed in like the rest of the squad.

[Goose]

You could have easily said the same things about Boeser previous to this season.  Great finisher but not involved enough.  

 

People keep saying RT is trying to change into AK into an “elite checker” - he’s not.  This team creates offence by forcing turnovers, but that requires all 5 skaters being on the same page.  If F1 or F2 just let the opponent gingerly do their thing, they arnt helping.  

 

RT is trying to create a team identity and Im on board w what he wants to see from his players.  

[MeanSeanBean]

29 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Wow, I didn't know that one. That's like when Tanev didn't get a penalty 3 years in a row or something like that lol. That is pretty crazy. It's like his attitude is he wants to make a fancy play ... and that's it, the end. 

Kuzmeko has 2 hits in 29 games played this year, lowest on the team. To put that in perspective, Karlsson and Hirose round out the bottom 3 and both have 3 hits in 3 games played.

[Gawdzukes]

1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Kuzmeko has 2 hits in 29 games played this year, lowest on the team. To put that in perspective, Karlsson and Hirose round out the bottom 3 and both have 3 hits in 3 games played.

 

Holy ... like wow. That is a crazy stat. Clearly not engaged.

[MeanSeanBean]

14 minutes ago, Tofu_Bud said:

You could have easily said the same things about Boeser previous to this season.  Great finisher but not involved enough.  

 

People keep saying RT is trying to change into AK into an “elite checker” - he’s not.  This team creates offence by forcing turnovers, but that requires all 5 skaters being on the same page.  If F1 or F2 just let the opponent gingerly do their thing, they arnt helping.  

 

RT is trying to create a team identity and Im on board w what he wants to see from his players.  

Could you? Boeser finished last year, which was admittedly a horrible year for him with 32 blocks and 49 hits. Kuzmeko is currently on pace for about 16 blocks and 5 hits. These aren't even remotely comparable stats, and thats Boeser at his all time low. Even if we just look at stats that could help tell the tale of engagement and putting points aside, Boeser at his all time low wasn't even in the same realm as Kuzmeko this year.