Jeremy Hronek Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) In a hypothetical conversation that we are not really having, one of the Canucks/Ducks GM's makes the following offer: To Anaheim: Tom Willander + Jonathan Lekkerimaki + ??? To Vancouver: Leo Carlsson. Do you make the deal? Miller-Pettersson-Boeser Mikheyev-Carlsson-Kuzmenko Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Hoglander-Suter-Lafferty PDG Hughes-Hronek Zadorov-Myers Cole-Soucy Juulsen Demko DeSmith So let's say that the above takes place (for better or for worse). Alvin then decides to continue to try and trade "4 green houses for 1 red hotel" so to speak. To Columbus: Podkolzin, 2024 1st, Hunter B To Vancouver: David Jiriceck (maybe not Jiriceck per se, but some big young stud d-man that's on an ELC) (I have no idea if the above is fair value or not by the way). Miller-Pettersson-Boeser Mikheyev-Carlsson-Kuzmenko Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Hoglander-Suter-Lafferty PDG Hughes-Hronek Zadorov-Jiriceck Cole-Soucy Myers Demko DeSmith And yes folks - I have in fact lost my marbles...........but does the team above become a cup contender both short term and long term? Edited January 7 by Jeremy Hronek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil_314 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I would not do trade #1, we're good at center and shouldn't unload the prospect clip for another C. Doubt CBJ trades a young ELC RHD for another 1st and two unproven assets (one blue-chip, one not). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 Great ideas! Getting the best young players in these trades, so that’s winning. Isn’t Leo Carlsson badly injured? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nucker67 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 I'm not sure if I love this or hate this. If the Canucks make those trades, the prospects up and coming would be: Baines - Raty - Klimovich McDonough - Perkins - X Alriksson - Mueller - X Hirose - McWard Cicek - Woo Pettersson - Celebrini Mynio - X Kudryavtsev - X ...and no 1st or 2nd in 2024 Not great, but they could build a powerhouse around Pettersson, Miller, Carlsson, Boeser, Hughes, Hronek, Zadorov and Jiricek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 20 minutes ago, Alflives said: Great ideas! Getting the best young players in these trades, so that’s winning. Isn’t Leo Carlsson badly injured? Thanks, haha. Bear in mind that these ideas will never come to fruition but it's always fun to ponder. Carlson suffered a sprained MCL in December and will be out 4-6 weeks but return well before the playoffs (in his purely hypothetical convo). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 (edited) 36 minutes ago, Phil_314 said: I would not do trade #1, we're good at center and shouldn't unload the prospect clip for another C. Doubt CBJ trades a young ELC RHD for another 1st and two unproven assets (one blue-chip, one not). Fair points. My only concern right now is that we don't really have a 2nd line C if the Lotto line have re-united on a permanent basis. Suter and Bluegar are good bottom 6 centres. Now, we could always trade for someone like Lindholm, etc., but players like that would be tough to sign long term (and we'd have to give up significant assets for these rental types). Hence, my idea, that if we're inevitable going to trade picks and prospects to go for a cup run, we might as well get ELC guys that are cost controlled and a little further along the path. With a guy like Carlsson here (or Fantilli, or whoever), we could re-unite the lotto line, play Suter and Bluegar on bottom 6 roles, and ultimately have a long term option at the #2 C spot. p.s. - If not Jiriceck, then maybe someone else of a similar mold that could possibly be had for cheaper. Edited January 7 by Jeremy Hronek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 7 Author Share Posted January 7 4 minutes ago, Nucker67 said: I'm not sure if I love this or hate this. If the Canucks make those trades, the prospects up and coming would be: Baines - Raty - Klimovich McDonough - Perkins - X Alriksson - Mueller - X Hirose - McWard Cicek - Woo Pettersson - Celebrini Mynio - X Kudryavtsev - X ...and no 1st or 2nd in 2024 Not great, but they could build a powerhouse around Pettersson, Miller, Carlsson, Boeser, Hughes, Hronek, Zadorov and Jiricek Yes unfortunately, that would be the catch 22 here. Our pipeline would take a MASSIVE hit, but the flip side of this is that we'd likely have guaranteed long term core players that could help us both short term and long term. Carlsson and Jiriceck would not only help us be cup contenders both short term and long term, but their ELC statuses would also help us when OEL's cap hit peaks (along with the raises that guys like Petey, Hronek, etc.) would get. By the time those guys needed post ELC contracts, a lot of our current contracts (i.e. Myers, Kuzmenko, etc.) would come off the books. But yes, to your point, hastella vista to our prospect pool, lol (although given that we'd have many young core players under this scenario, there would be plenty of time left to rebuild this pool). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ghostsof1915 Posted January 7 Popular Post Share Posted January 7 NO. 1 1 1 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophomore Jinx Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) The trade partners can take a ride on the Reading, and coz we're so chill and nice here on the left coast, we'll give them a Get Out Of Jail Free card when they're indicted for conspiring to empty our prospect pool Edited January 7 by Sophomore Jinx 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocket-68 Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) 3 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: NO. Having upvoted this, I am compelled to expand a bit, muse even, wax eloquently perhaps. Leo Carlsson >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> TW + JL ... then a yes Leo Carlsson > TW + JL then a no ... I recall a quote from a much scrutinized trade in the past "Todd Bertuzzi is on the ice maybe 20 minutes while Luongo is on the ice for the whole game." Forget who this was made by but the moral was a bad trade in the long run for Florida. TW and JL "look" to be top shelf players, as does LC, but is two birds in than hand better than an one in the other .... debate starts here but I would say no, in the long run. Short term is not in the picture as that means a cup this year or at most next two. Similarly, David J >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> HB then absolutely DJ > HB then no ... does anyone have a crystal ball I could borrow for a second. But I digress, without a solid vision of the future and something that those paid to make the tough calls know that we don't I would not trade "four green houses for a red hotel" as it appears to me, from my arm chair with a beer in my hand at 3:52PM Sunday afternoon firing up the BBQ, is we may have a red hotel or two already in the pipe line. Flame away, I asked the wife to bring out he asbestos overalls. Edited January 7 by Rocket-68 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 7 Share Posted January 7 (edited) Only problem I have with this is... What if one of our green houses is actually a red hotel that we don't know of yet...? Edited January 8 by HKSR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 3 hours ago, Ghostsof1915 said: NO. This is so bad its not even fun to read! NO means NO! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crabcakes Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Is Leo Carlson Swedish? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sophomore Jinx Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, Crabcakes said: Is Leo Carlson Swedish? Yes, Leo Carlsson was born on Boxing Day 2004, in Karlstad, Sweden Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) Leo Carlsson and David Jiricek are the two best players in those trades. They are both potential superstars in the NHL. Of course I would do both deals. That would be a no brainer. Allvin would be the one proposing these deals and the other GM’s would be the ones hanging up the phones… Edited January 8 by Elias Pettersson 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 14 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: Leo Carlsson and David Jiricek are the two best players in those trades. They are both potential superstars in the NHL. Of course I would do both deals. That would be a no brainer. Allvin would be the one proposing these deals and the other GM’s would be the ones hanging up the phones… @Elias Pettersson, You are correct. Neither Anaheim nor Columbus would have any reason to make this deal since those aforementioned young players are on the cusp of superstardom. While Willander and Lekkerimaki have shown tons of promise of superstardom, their probability of reaching that level, as of this current writing, is still far more of a question mark. Now having said that, I'm still wondering if the principle behind this idea could still work. Willander + Lekkerimaki for a young elite player that is still on an ELC.......a player that could help the Canucks both long term and also in the here and now. Now, for the sake of your argument, this player obviously can't be someone like Carlsson, Fantili, or Jiriceck because like you said, why would those GM's give them up? On the opposite end of the spectrum, trading Willander + Lekkerimaki for........Shane Wright per se would be idiotic from our perspective. Shane Wright<----------------------------------------------Ideal Target---------------------------------------->Jiriceck/Carlsson/Fantilli So, I guess my question, which player in the league would that fit that bill? Someone that is young, on, an ELC, and really fcking good, and could help us both short term and long term, but isn't quite a superstar. My guess is that no such player exists (Mason McTavish? Cole Sillinger?) and that we'd likely just be better off holding onto what we have, but who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 7 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said: @Elias Pettersson, You are correct. Neither Anaheim nor Columbus would have any reason to make this deal since those aforementioned young players are on the cusp of superstardom. While Willander and Lekkerimaki have shown tons of promise of superstardom, their probability of reaching that level, as of this current writing, is still far more of a question mark. Now having said that, I'm still wondering if the principle behind this idea could still work. Willander + Lekkerimaki for a young elite player that is still on an ELC.......a player that could help the Canucks both long term and also in the here and now. Now, for the sake of your argument, this player obviously can't be someone like Carlsson, Fantili, or Jiriceck because like you said, why would those GM's give them up? On the opposite end of the spectrum, trading Willander + Lekkerimaki for........Shane Wright per se would be idiotic from our perspective. Shane Wright<----------------------------------------------Ideal Target---------------------------------------->Jiriceck/Carlsson/Fantilli So, I guess my question, which player in the league would that fit that bill? Someone that is young, on, an ELC, and really fcking good, and could help us both short term and long term, but isn't quite a superstar. My guess is that no such player exists (Mason McTavish? Cole Sillinger?) and that we'd likely just be better off holding onto what we have, but who knows. I think we are better off holding on to what we have. For all we know, Lekkerimaki could turn into a 50 goal scorer and Willander could be the next Cale Makar. We just don't know. And both fill a position of need. Also, we need to figure out if the Lotto Line is a thing again or not. If it is, then we definitely need a young 2C. If not, then we need a young top 6 winger to fill the gap. Either way, we are one guy short in the top 6 IMO, unless Podkolzin comes in next year and becomes the next Brady Tkachuk. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: I think we are better off holding on to what we have. For all we know, Lekkerimaki could turn into a 50 goal scorer and Willander could be the next Cale Makar. We just don't know. And both fill a position of need. Also, we need to figure out if the Lotto Line is a thing again or not. If it is, then we definitely need a young 2C. If not, then we need a young top 6 winger to fill the gap. Either way, we are one guy short in the top 6 IMO, unless Podkolzin comes in next year and becomes the next Brady Tkachuk. I've noticed you being very high on Vasily Podkolzin. He's decent, and I know he's been putting in the hard work in the AHL but I don't really see him suddenly breaking out into a top six role right away. I thought he was capable of that two years ago but now I'm not so sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 Just now, Miss Korea said: I've noticed you being very high on Vasily Podkolzin. He's decent, and I know he's been putting in the hard work in the AHL but I don't really see him suddenly breaking out into a top six role right away. I thought he was capable of that two years ago but now I'm not so sure. Oh I agree. I see him as a top 3rd liner. He "could" break out into the top 6. Time will tell. He's on a similar trajectory as Tage Thompson. Thompson was also in the AHL at 22 even though he played in the NHL starting at age 20, just like Podkolzin. The thing with Podkolzin is he plays the game the right way, the way Tocchet wants. So I can see him being a Tocchet guy and getting lots of chances in the top 6 eventually. He did have good chemistry with Miller in his rookie year. So we will see what happens... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs and Podz Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 2 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I've noticed you being very high on Vasily Podkolzin. He's decent, and I know he's been putting in the hard work in the AHL but I don't really see him suddenly breaking out into a top six role right away. I thought he was capable of that two years ago but now I'm not so sure. Fair enough... I understand why you feel hesitant to put Podz in the top 6. He may not be there right away... I don't expect him to be the next BT... I believe he'll be Podz... His own person, player. He's got the physical gift, enough speed, tonnes of grit, his shot selection is vast and near elite along with unmatched compete and heart. All he's been missing and developing slowly is confidence and getting his critical self assessment under control. Has been way to serious about... Well everything. He's learning how to soften the edges in that area. There is a reason Miller took him under his wing... He sees a lot of himself in Podz... And has said as much. Along with saying his ceiling is unlimited. Either way, I don't think we're going to have to wait long for his arrival on the big club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Korea Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 17 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Oh I agree. I see him as a top 3rd liner. He "could" break out into the top 6. Time will tell. He's on a similar trajectory as Tage Thompson. Thompson was also in the AHL at 22 even though he played in the NHL starting at age 20, just like Podkolzin. The thing with Podkolzin is he plays the game the right way, the way Tocchet wants. So I can see him being a Tocchet guy and getting lots of chances in the top 6 eventually. He did have good chemistry with Miller in his rookie year. So we will see what happens... 4 minutes ago, Hogs and Podz said: Fair enough... I understand why you feel hesitant to put Podz in the top 6. He may not be there right away... I don't expect him to be the next BT... I believe he'll be Podz... His own person, player. He's got the physical gift, enough speed, tonnes of grit, his shot selection is vast and near elite along with unmatched compete and heart. All he's been missing and developing slowly is confidence and getting his critical self assessment under control. Has been way to serious about... Well everything. He's learning how to soften the edges in that area. There is a reason Miller took him under his wing... He sees a lot of himself in Podz... And has said as much. Along with saying his ceiling is unlimited. Either way, I don't think we're going to have to wait long for his arrival on the big club. I totally get the optimism and the potential of what he can bring to this team. What I don't get is why he got cut two years in a row. Especially this year. He should be ready enough to make an impact on this team today, but for some reason he isn't. Vancouver has recalled Åman, Karlsson and Studnicka ahead of Podz. I'm sure Tocchet and management just wanted to see what kind of player they had in those three guys, but... I don't know. I get him being a casualty of our waivers situation in October but now it's January. I don't understand how he could've fallen behind all these other guys in our depth chart. The only conclusion one could make is that... he's not ready. If he was, we wouldn't be talking about next year. Tocchet would've called him up by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: I totally get the optimism and the potential of what he can bring to this team. What I don't get is why he got cut two years in a row. Especially this year. He should be ready enough to make an impact on this team today, but for some reason he isn't. Vancouver has recalled Åman, Karlsson and Studnicka ahead of Podz. I'm sure Tocchet and management just wanted to see what kind of player they had in those three guys, but... I don't know. I get him being a casualty of our waivers situation in October but now it's January. I don't understand how he could've fallen behind all these other guys in our depth chart. The only conclusion one could make is that... he's not ready. If he was, we wouldn't be talking about next year. Tocchet would've called him up by now. I believe they have a plan for Podkolzin. He may have been called up earlier but he sustained that concussion which pushed his development back. If that didn’t happen he may very well have been called up already this year. Höglander also had to go back to the AHL. Only reason he was up with the big club this year is because he had to clear waivers. Same think with Podkolzin next season. He will also have to clear waivers so he will 100% be on the Canucks in a bottom 6 role. Unlike Benning, Allvin likes to keep guys brewing in the AHL until they are ready. Karlsson is already 24 years old. So he really needs to show his stuff. If he can’t make it then he will be stuck in the AHL. Aman is no longer waiver eligible. So he can’t get sent down. He’s a centre so we needed him when Suter and Blueger got injured. So there is a plan in place here. It’s not like they forgot about Podkolzin. Same thing with Raty. They want both those guys 100% for the big show before they are called up. They traded Studnicka so obviously they gave him a chance and now he’s gone as he couldn’t make the cut. Edited January 8 by Elias Pettersson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeremy Hronek Posted January 8 Author Share Posted January 8 On 1/8/2024 at 12:52 AM, Jeremy Hronek said: In a hypothetical conversation that we are not really having, one of the Canucks/Ducks GM's makes the following offer: To Anaheim: Tom Willander + Jonathan Lekkerimaki + ??? To Vancouver: Leo Carlsson. Do you make the deal? Miller-Pettersson-Boeser Mikheyev-Carlsson-Kuzmenko Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Hoglander-Suter-Lafferty PDG Hughes-Hronek Zadorov-Myers Cole-Soucy Juulsen Demko DeSmith So let's say that the above takes place (for better or for worse). Alvin then decides to continue to try and trade "4 green houses for 1 red hotel" so to speak. To Columbus: Podkolzin, 2024 1st, Hunter B To Vancouver: David Jiriceck (maybe not Jiriceck per se, but some big young stud d-man that's on an ELC) (I have no idea if the above is fair value or not by the way). Miller-Pettersson-Boeser Mikheyev-Carlsson-Kuzmenko Joshua-Bluegar-Garland Hoglander-Suter-Lafferty PDG Hughes-Hronek Zadorov-Jiriceck Cole-Soucy Myers Demko DeSmith And yes folks - I have in fact lost my marbles...........but does the team above become a cup contender both short term and long term? Just revisiting this idea a bit: Vancouver-Columbus: To Vancouver: -Cole Sillinger -David Jiriceck To Columbus -Tom Willander -Jonathan Lekkerimaki -Auty Raty -?????? So, we “downgrade” from Leo Carlsson to Cole Sillinger and focus solely on Columbus. Could something like this ever work? Would it be worth it on our end? My gut says “I doubt it,” but meh. Who knows. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hogs and Podz Posted January 8 Share Posted January 8 53 minutes ago, Miss Korea said: The only conclusion one could make is that... he's not ready. If he was, we wouldn't be talking about next year. Tocchet would've called him up by now. He hasn't been ready... It's all been between his ears. Will he overcome? Management thinks so... Otherwise trader Jim would have sent him packing already. I know it sounds fan boy... But he is our Cam Neely 2.0... Was supposed to be Virtanen. But I think it's Podz... Except this time... We were patient and didn't trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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