How much of this teams future is this fan base willing to mortgage? But is there a bigger question to be asked first

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

With the deadline fast approaching and the comments by JR and PA. The deadline does start to raise a question how much is this fan base and management willing to mortgage for a playoff run this season?

 

To answer this question I propose there is one that needs to be answered first. To what effect? 

 

Our biggest weakness is our second line and honestly 1 piece I don't think is going to fix it. Kuz playing with EP40 couldn't kickstart Kuz so who is serious going to come in and fix that. That leaves this management with 2 top 6 forwards to fill. 

 

So let's playout a few scenarios. 

 

Lindholm, Cost of acquisition High.

 

Cap hit 4.85 mill, The Canucks will need to remove cap. Kuz trade could be a potential. The Gain for such a trade could be used to help acquire Lindholm. Example the Horvat trade help to acquire Hronek. 

 

What are you left with Mik and Lindholm (Lafferty, Hoglander Suter). Is this enough of an improvement. Of course we don't know what else the Canucks might have to give up to complete the trade.

 

Guentzel, Cost of acquisition High 

 

First I have to say this one is laughable until Pit is eliminated from the playoffs. Pit sits in 9th place with a better pts % then TBL. The cost to Pitt would mean zero chance of making the playoffs and that would drive the cost up. But then why mention him. He is a winger so this goes for any winger that the Canucks maybe looking at. With out a some what play making center what is the point of bring in a winger to play with Suter. 

 

Grandlund, Cost of acquisition low to medium.

 

I won't lie I like this player he fills a lot of roles for the Canucks, PP2 center PK 2 center 2nd line center playmaker and can play right wing and take Kuz spot. Why mention him because as much as I like this player a trade for him has the same problem as Lindholm or any other low medium acquisition center. Sure the player they get might help Mik but the second winger is still just going to be Lafferty, Hoglander or Suter the same issue that EP40 faced when they took Kuz off of his line.

 

So it all leads one to think the only way to upgrade the team is to acquire 2 2nd line players to have any real benefit to this team. Once one begins to realize any benefit only comes from getting two players one can truly see the true cost to the future of this team. 

 

So to what effect does one player have on this team if acquired, if not a star or game changer? If the answer is minimal then what's the point. Then the question becomes how much are we willing to mortgage the future for 2 players.

 

I temper my expectations and hope that this management group understands that even 2 smaller trades might have a bigger impact on this team then a blockbuster. 

 

My hope is that they make the Kuz trade and acquire a player that can be inserted into the lineup preferable a player with lesser salary and then make another trade to fill the other hole not filled by the kuz trade ( If they get a center fill the wing if a winger fill the center hole).

 

Also to mention if you bring a second player in the team can also remove a second player and will have to, to stay below the cap unless they can get 2 players at the cost of Kuz's cap hit of 5.5 mill. They could trade lets say Lafferty and use that piece to help acquire the second player.  This would strengthen the second but may not be a pure second line but the Canucks have the benefit have having 1 of if not the best third lines in the league. Which also begs the question how much does the management want to mess with the make up of this team.

 

To sum it up, If they decide to make any trades, I hope they play to the teams strength and currently that is the depth this management has already been able to put together in all three positions forward defense and goaltending. Win by committee and by doing so don't trade the teams future away. Mike Gillies style, Higgens and Lapierre 2010-11 deadline deals. 

 

My biggest fear is that Ownership pushes the management to do something stupid. JR isn't a young guy anymore neither he may have win now mentality as well

Edited January 17 by Tocchet.A.Hockey.God

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

Edits are just grammar issues and title fixes 

[TNucks1]

1 hour ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said:

With the deadline fast approaching and the comments by JR and PA. The deadline does start to raise a question how much is this fan base and management willing to mortgage for a playoff run this season?

 

To answer this question I propose there is one that needs to be answered first. To what effect? 

 

Our biggest weakness is our second line and honestly 1 piece I don't think is going to fix it. Kuz playing with EP40 couldn't kickstart Kuz so who is serious going to come in and fix that. That leaves this management with 2 top 6 forwards to fill. 

 

So let's playout a few scenarios. 

 

Lindholm, Cost of acquisition High.

 

Cap hit 4.85 mill, The Canucks will need to remove cap. Kuz trade could be a potential. The Gain for such a trade could be used to help acquire Lindholm. Example the Horvat trade help to acquire Hronek. 

 

What are you left with Mik and Lindholm (Lafferty, Hoglander Suter). Is this enough of an improvement. Of course we don't know what else the Canucks might have to give up to complete the trade.

 

Guentzel, Cost of acquisition High 

 

First I have to say this one is laughable until Pit is eliminated from the playoffs. Pit sits in 9th place with a better pts % then TBL. The cost to Pitt would mean zero chance of making the playoffs and that would drive the cost up. But then why mention him. He is a winger so this goes for any winger that the Canucks maybe looking at. With out a some what play making center what is the point of bring in a winger to play with Suter. 

 

Grandlund, Cost of acquisition low to medium.

 

I won't lie I like this player he fills a lot of roles for the Canucks, PP2 center PK 2 center 2nd line center playmaker and can play right wing and take Kuz spot. Why mention him because as much as I like this player a trade for him has the same problem as Lindholm or any other low medium acquisition center. Sure the player they get might help Mik but the second winger is still just going to be Lafferty, Hoglander or Suter the same issue that EP40 faced when they took Kuz off of his line.

 

So it all leads one to think the only way to upgrade the team is to acquire 2 2nd line players to have any real benefit to this team. Once one begins to realize any benefit only comes from getting two players one can truly see the true cost to the future of this team. 

 

So to what effect does one player have on this team if acquired, if not a star or game changer? If the answer is minimal then what's the point. Then the question becomes how much are we willing to mortgage the future for 2 players.

 

I temper my expectations and hope that this management group understands that even 2 smaller trades might have a bigger impact on this team then a blockbuster. 

 

My hope is that they make the Kuz trade and acquire a player that can be inserted into the lineup preferable a player with lesser salary and then make another trade to fill the other hole not filled by the kuz trade ( If they get a center fill the wing if a winger fill the center hole).

 

Also to mention if you bring a second player in the team can also remove a second player and will have to, to stay below the cap unless they can get 2 players at the cost of Kuz's cap hit of 5.5 mill. They could trade lets say Lafferty and use that piece to help acquire the second player.  This would strengthen the second but may not be a pure second line but the Canucks have the benefit have having 1 of if not the best third lines in the league. Which also begs the question how much does the management want to mess with the make up of this team.

 

To sum it up, If they decide to make any trades, I hope they play to the teams strength and currently that is the depth this management has already been able to put together in all three positions forward defense and goaltending. Win by committee and by doing so don't trade the teams future away. Mike Gillies style, Higgens and Lapierre 2010-11 deadline deals. 

 

My biggest fear is that Ownership pushes the management to do something stupid. JR isn't a young guy anymore neither he may have win now mentality as well

at first thought you were HOCKEY_GOD77




jokes a side, doubt i work in the morning, gunna header to bedskis, read it tomorrow.

[Drakrami]

I don't mind spending 2024 + 25 1sts for a shot at the cup. This is from the guy who goes crazy for us trading away draft picks. 

[iinatcc]

So to my understanding is the top prospects now are 

Lekkerimäki
Willander

 

I think if you want to get someone that has a meaningful impact on the team and you can sign long term you will probably have to give one of them up on top of a 1st round pick and maybe a current player (Hoglander maybe) ? 

 

Though Islanders got Horvat for a 1st + B Prospect + Roster Player with a huge Cap. If Vancouver can get an impactful player like Horvat that the team can resign after, that would be a steal.

[DrJockitch]

2 hours ago, TNucks1 said:

at first thought you were HOCKEY_GOD77




jokes a side, doubt i work in the morning, gunna header to bedskis, read it tomorrow.

But the caps lock wasn’t on. 

[DrJockitch]

I don’t mortgage the future now. 
We have been great for half a year. We were very good for half a year the last 2 seasons. 
‘I don’t trade significant youth prospects or pics unless it is under the guise of what has been said in the past, young player that can help the team now and on the future. 
Adding more than a rental will complicate what looks like will already be a complicated cap situation and when you have a complicated cap situation you need a fulsome group of young player to come in on cost controlled deals. We are finally just starting to rebuild our gutted prospect core from years of Benning always thinking this is the year. 
Mid round pic or 2 for useful rental fine.  Anything more than that is fools gold. 

Edited January 17 by DrJockitch

[bishopshodan]

All of it.

 

Load up now.

 

This is our time.

[Dom]

Do whatever it takes. Now is the time. 

[Ghostsof1915]

We haven't even tapped any reserves, like Podz, Bains, Ratu, Wolanin.

 

We seem to be rolling along just fine right now.

 

That doesn't mean the team should stop looking to improve.

 

I know we all want a cup like yesterday. But there's no need to make any stupid or panic moves.

 

Management has done an awesome job this year. If the right deal comes along go for it.

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

So to my understanding is the top prospects now are 

Lekkerimäki
Willander

 

I think if you want to get someone that has a meaningful impact on the team and you can sign long term you will probably have to give one of them up on top of a 1st round pick and maybe a current player (Hoglander maybe) ? 

 

Though Islanders got Horvat for a 1st + B Prospect + Roster Player with a huge Cap. If Vancouver can get an impactful player like Horvat that the team can resign after, that would be a steal.

Probably the price for Lindholm.  Same situation.  Maybe a bit more for Lindholm, but not much.

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, iinatcc said:

So to my understanding is the top prospects now are 

Lekkerimäki
Willander

 

I think if you want to get someone that has a meaningful impact on the team and you can sign long term you will probably have to give one of them up on top of a 1st round pick and maybe a current player (Hoglander maybe) ? 

 

Though Islanders got Horvat for a 1st + B Prospect + Roster Player with a huge Cap. If Vancouver can get an impactful player like Horvat that the team can resign after, that would be a steal.

Whorefat Wallet is really impacting the Islanders, isn’t he? They are falling like a rock. Yup. The Elephant is sure an impactful player. 

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Whorefat Wallet is really impacting the Islanders, isn’t he? They are falling like a rock. Yup. The Elephant is sure an impactful player. 

 

I think what we've learned is Bo is a good complimentary player.

[OldFaithfulcap]

Rutherford likes to go all in, so why not.

 

I think we need a 2c for kuz. We could also add a veteran forward who can still play on/off and another dman for depth. 

 

I've mentioned Sillinger before and i think he could help kickstart kuz plus he is cheap. Jackets are not his team now and i'd move a 1st for him. 

 

Tanev for a future 2nd would be fine for depth d.

 

 

Edited January 17 by OldFaithfulcap
g

[HKSR]

Petey and Hronek not extended will keep Allvin from making a big splash IMO.  The uncertainty keeps his hands tied in case of worst case scenario. 

Must be pretty frustrating for Allvin right now.  Ironic that Petey is also hurting his team by not negotiating the contract sooner.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Petey and Hronek not extended will keep Allvin from making a big splash IMO.  The uncertainty keeps his hands tied in case of worst case scenario. 

Must be pretty frustrating for Allvin right now.  Ironic that Petey is also hurting his team by not negotiating the contract sooner.

[MattJVD]

I say the 1st round pick is in play for sure. I wouldn't want to move Lekkermaki, Willander, or D Petey though. They could add serious value to this roster in a year or two on cheap contracts and really extend the window.

Edited January 17 by MattJVD

[Tusk]

38 minutes ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

Rutherford likes to go all in, so why not.

 

I think we need a 2c for kuz. We could also add a veteran forward who can still play on/off and another dman for depth. 

 

I've mentioned Sillinger before and i think he could help kickstart kuz plus he is cheap. Jackets are not his team now and i'd move a 1st for him. 

 

Tanev for a future 2nd would be fine for depth d.

 

 

These sound like great Ideas but we have no cap space for it. Maybe a trade for the guy with the broken ankle first, for a pick, and we put him in LTIR till june, then we have a bit of cap. I cant remember who the player was but the contract was 4 x 4

[Kootenay Gold]

2 hours ago, bishopshodan said:

All of it.

 

Load up now.

 

This is our time.

This year is not likely our time.

 

They will make the playoffs but making it to the cup finals is a whole different challenge. IMO, a few moves in the off season when the Cap issue is clearer could set this team up for successive runs at the cup. Also; IMO, minor trades are OK as long as they do not involve giving up a 1st or 2nd round pick or one of the better NHL calibre picks that they have developing. This will ensure a longer window of opportunity to win the cup. Would much rather see multiple years of contending for the cup than a one and done approach.

[iinatcc]

1 hour ago, Alflives said:

Whorefat Wallet is really impacting the Islanders, isn’t he? They are falling like a rock. Yup. The Elephant is sure an impactful player. 

 

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think what we've learned is Bo is a good complimentary player.

 

He's also at 41 pts in 43 games. If the Canucks can get a player like that in the deadline and sign him for decent term. I'd say is a good deal.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

I'm less concerned about obtaining the best players or most talented but acquiring the right ones. We need players that can be an impact on the ice but within Tocchet's system.  I am not opposed to acquiring pieces to sustain a long playoff run, however, not at the cost of Willander, Lekkerimaki, or Podkolzin.

 

Generally getting big pieces acquirsitions like rentals rarely work

i.e

NYR: Kane and Tarasenko;

FLR: Giroux;

PITT: Iginla;

CBJ: Duchene;

 

are recent examples of big acquisitions/marquee names and didn't help their teams make deep run. However, if its long term adds like a Filip Hronek trade, I'm all for that. With Pettersson and Hronek's deal looming, I can imagine this being hard to execute unless you are moving out significant cash out too like Kuzmenko.

 

Realistically you are looking at smaller additions and hope that they fit in well with the team structure and overall ethos like Higgins and Lapierre did in 2011. They understood their role and slowly increased it over time. 

[stawns]

I won't be mortgaging much.  They've got a challenging off season ahead and they're going to need good, young players on cheap contracts going forward.

[stawns]

4 hours ago, iinatcc said:

So to my understanding is the top prospects now are 

Lekkerimäki
Willander

 

I think if you want to get someone that has a meaningful impact on the team and you can sign long term you will probably have to give one of them up on top of a 1st round pick and maybe a current player (Hoglander maybe) ? 

 

Though Islanders got Horvat for a 1st + B Prospect + Roster Player with a huge Cap. If Vancouver can get an impactful player like Horvat that the team can resign after, that would be a steal.

 

That's the thing, anyone they get will likely be a rental because they most likely won't have cap space to resign that person.

 

They need to find a cheap rental out there who can play above expectations for a few months.

[iinatcc]

46 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

That's the thing, anyone they get will likely be a rental because they most likely won't have cap space to resign that person.

 

They need to find a cheap rental out there who can play above expectations for a few months.

 

Remember someone in Sportsnet 650 suggesting Adam Henrique. 

 

He can probably fetch like a draft pick only 

Edited January 17 by iinatcc

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

Remember someone in Sportsnet 650 suggesting Adam Henrique. 

 

He can probably fetch like a draft pick only 

 

I suggested henriwue here a couple weeks ago.  Skilled, kind of a sleeper so might be cheaper