Emulate that. Canucks breaking the way the NHL works

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

NHL GMs like to emulate what Cup winners do. 

 

So for fun, I was thinking what if the Canucks won the Lord Stanley's Cup? How would GMs emulate the Canucks. I will start.

 

Suck for 8+ years, re-tooling each year with a mediocre GM (Because the Owner likes to meddle and doesn't understand what a re-build is) going through multiple terrible inexperience coaches that favor AHL quality players at best.

 

Fire that mediocre GM and hire the oldest fart as President that wants to re-tool and compete for the playoffs, hire a rookie GM and an inexperience Head Coach.

 

Change half the the players and then do the most unexpected of all things become a Cup contender.

 

  

I missed a lot of other things that happen prior to this season fill in the Blanks. 

 

Disclaimer: This is for fun and make it ridicules because how we got here was ridicules and unexpected. 

Edited January 21 by Tocchet.A.Hockey.God

[Nucker67]

Prepared by several Stanley Cup winning "chefs"

 

1 Swedish superstar forward

1 ultra-gritty veteran star forward

1 elite goaltender

1 generational mobile Dman

6-7 dashes of physicality

 

Mix and serve 

 

Add the Blueg Line for garnish

[Canuck You]

Just enjoy the ride so far, We'll worry about it when or if we ever cross that bridge! And if we do, Who really cares about other GMs?

[Sophomore Jinx]

4 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

Prepared by several Stanley Cup winning "chefs"

 

1 Swedish superstar forward

1 ultra-gritty veteran star forward

1 elite goaltender

1 generational mobile Dman

6-7 dashes of physicality

 

Mix and serve 

 

Add the Blueg Line for garnish

- Add a rasher of old war-dog-player-turned-coach in Foote, and Mr. Slick, Gonchar.

 

- Season with advice from the puck magnet twins

 

- Marinate with Mr. Cool, Lord Ice-In-Veins Allvin

 

 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 hour ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said:

NHL GMs like to emulate what Cup winners do. 

 

So for fun, I was thinking what if the Canucks won the Lord Stanley's Cup? How would GMs emulate the Canucks. I will start.

 

Suck for 8+ years, re-tooling each year with a mediocre GM (Because the Owner likes to meddle and doesn't understand what a re-build is) going through multiple terrible inexperience coaches that favor AHL quality players at best.

 

Fire that mediocre GM and hire the oldest fart as President that wants to re-tool and compete for the playoffs, hire a rookie GM and an inexperience Head Coach.

 

Change half the the players and then do the most unexpected of all things become a Cup contender.

 

  

I missed a lot of other things that happen prior to this season fill in the Blanks. 

 

Disclaimer: This is for fun and make it ridicules because how we got here was ridicules and unexpected. 

 

You forgot trading away top picks and drafting mid-round when those picks haven't been traded away, as well as trading for a boat anchor only to have new management create future dead cap by having to buy out the contract.  

 

Oh, and having "media" asking Former AGM Chris Gear for his opinion after he's fired.

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said:

NHL GMs like to emulate what Cup winners do. 

 

So for fun, I was thinking what if the Canucks won the Lord Stanley's Cup? How would GMs emulate the Canucks. I will start.

 

Suck for 8+ years, re-tooling each year with a mediocre GM (Because the Owner likes to meddle and doesn't understand what a re-build is) going through multiple terrible inexperience coaches that favor AHL quality players at best.

 

Fire that mediocre GM and hire the oldest fart as President that wants to re-tool and compete for the playoffs, hire a rookie GM and an inexperience Head Coach.

 

Change half the the players and then do the most unexpected of all things become a Cup contender.

 

  

I missed a lot of other things that happen prior to this season fill in the Blanks. 

 

Disclaimer: This is for fun and make it ridicules because how we got here was ridicules and unexpected. 

Dunno how many rebuilding teams are winners while rebuilding. If you thought Benning was brought in to win, just ask yourself this…. Why was a “winning” GM like Gillis let go and a former scout/director of scouting brought in? To rebuild. Rebuilds take years and years. 

First 5 years was the rebuild, after you build, you develop, after developing you compete/contend. Welcome to today.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said:

NHL GMs like to emulate what Cup winners do. 

 

So for fun, I was thinking what if the Canucks won the Lord Stanley's Cup? How would GMs emulate the Canucks. I will start.

 

Suck for 8+ years, re-tooling each year with a mediocre GM (Because the Owner likes to meddle and doesn't understand what a re-build is) going through multiple terrible inexperience coaches that favor AHL quality players at best.

 

Fire that mediocre GM and hire the oldest fart as President that wants to re-tool and compete for the playoffs, hire a rookie GM and an inexperience Head Coach.

 

Change half the the players and then do the most unexpected of all things become a Cup contender.

 

  

I missed a lot of other things that happen prior to this season fill in the Blanks. 

 

Disclaimer: This is for fun and make it ridicules because how we got here was ridicules and unexpected. 

 

isn't the core of this team provided by the former "mediocre" GM?

 

Petey, Miller, Hughes, Demko, Garland, Hogz, Boeser

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Dunno how many rebuilding teams are winners while rebuilding. If you thought Benning was brought in to win, just ask yourself this…. Why was a “winning” GM like Gillis let go and a former scout/director of scouting brought in? To rebuild. Rebuilds take years and years. 

First 5 years was the rebuild, after you build, you develop, after developing you compete/contend. Welcome to today.

 

I said from day one hat Bennng would be gone before the team was truly successful.  He served the same role as Nonis did.

[Hammertime]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I said from day one hat Bennng would be gone before the team was truly successful.  He served the same role as Nonis did.

Blessed Are Those Who Plant Trees Under Whose Shade They Will Never Sit

[112]

2 hours ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

- Add a rasher of old war-dog-player-turned-coach in Foote, and Mr. Slick, Gonchar.

 

- Season with advice from the puck magnet twins

 

- Marinate with Mr. Cool, Lord Ice-In-Veins Allvin

 

 

[Miss Korea]

One name change later, CanuckFanForever is still being weird as ever

[PureQuickness]

The Canucks are successful TODAY because of JR/Allvin, Tocchet, and Benning's core. We knew players like Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko are amazing, but they never truly flourished under Benning's watch for many different reasons. Still, Benning, hate him or love him, was a major factor in this current team. Oh, and we do have Miller - a rare Benning trade. I still remember reading the posters who automatically slagged the trade as being an overpayment. Those posters are never going to hold themselves accountable for the most part about their incorrect opinions.

 

It's mind-boggling to me that people still talk about Gillis' playoff runs (rightfully so) while dismissing his obvious failures to draft and develop his own. One poster even went as far as to say playoff runs matter more than drafting. What a joke. It's as if you couldn't do both.

 

This management, which I had been wrong about, has done an amazing job adding their own touches to this team.

 

Gillis and Benning are in the past. It's time to move on.

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

 

isn't the core of this team provided by the former "mediocre" GM?

 

Petey, Miller, Hughes, Demko, Garland, Hogz, Boeser

That's why I said mediocre and not terrible

 

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

52 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

The Canucks are successful TODAY because of JR/Allvin, Tocchet, and Benning's core. We knew players like Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko are amazing, but they never truly flourished under Benning's watch for many different reasons. Still, Benning, hate him or love him, was a major factor in this current team. Oh, and we do have Miller - a rare Benning trade. I still remember reading the posters who automatically slagged the trade as being an overpayment. Those posters are never going to hold themselves accountable for the most part about their incorrect opinions.

 

It's mind-boggling to me that people still talk about Gillis' playoff runs (rightfully so) while dismissing his obvious failures to draft and develop his own. One poster even went as far as to say playoff runs matter more than drafting. What a joke. It's as if you couldn't do both.

 

This management, which I had been wrong about, has done an amazing job adding their own touches to this team.

 

Gillis and Benning are in the past. It's time to move on.

Those posters weren't wrong they were questioning the timing of the trade in relation to where the team was. You can't use hindsight to say they were wrong. Even JR and PA has called this season unexpected. This managements comments prior to the season  was if everything goes right they would make the playoffs never mind lead the leagues. 

 

You can't take the Canucks success this year and argue that trade was right at the time. You could make a very good arguments now to spend assets to help make a run in the playoffs. At the same time those that may get acquired now may have no effect on the team and they could be eliminated in the first round. You of course would probably be the guy that says that was a bad trade by JR. 

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

4 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

One name change later, CanuckFanForever is still being weird as ever

Don't know how I'm being weird, I'm poking fun at how NHL GM's emulate past Cup winners to usually no avail. 

 

How do you emulate Vegas, You can't make your team some how an expansion team again. I guess you have to go back in the past.

Edited January 22 by Tocchet.A.Hockey.God

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

4 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

One name change later, CanuckFanForever is still being weird as ever

You can hold me to my past all you wish I really don't care. But at the time of me saying what I was, It was a legitimate argument and the playoff part still holds true. This team has won nothing and unless this team wins a playoff series it will fall on the Coach. If this team doesn't have even greater success in the playoffs in the coming years it will fall on the Coach.

[cripplereh]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

 

isn't the core of this team provided by the former "mediocre" GM?

 

Petey, Miller, Hughes, Demko, Garland, Hogz, Boeser

Same with MG he was gifted an awesome team.

[AnthonyG]

18 hours ago, stawns said:

 

I said from day one hat Bennng would be gone before the team was truly successful.  He served the same role as Nonis did.

Imho He served the role of Burke and touch of Nonis.
most of 2010-11’s impact players were drafted by Burke.

You look at todays impact players on the roster and its largely Bennings work.

 

Burke+Nonis+Gillis = Benning+Allvin

this time ‘round we have a Hughes not an Erhoff. 

[DSVII]

There's really no way to emulate what we went through, a lot of it was good luck to assemble that core. 

 

Falling in the draft in back to back lotteries where the teams in front happen to draft players who didn't turn out to be the best in the draft. 

 

 

[Shirotashi]

You can have all the right pieces but you still need chemistry. Rutherford said it himself in an interview... he said

that hes seen other teems with all the right pieces but they just dont win. For whatever reason. We are fortunate 

in that we have the pieces AND we are gelling pretty good here. So its the intangibles that have to be valuated 

into the formula. 

 

The Leafs found out AGAIN on Sat what pieces they are missing, it was highlighted in the last few mins of the game LOL

in the 6v3.

[kilgore]

3 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Imho He served the role of Burke and touch of Nonis.
most of 2010-11’s impact players were drafted by Burke.

You look at todays impact players on the roster and its largely Bennings work.

 

Burke+Nonis+Gillis = Benning+Allvin

this time ‘round we have a Hughes not an Erhoff. 

 

I think its just that many knowledgeable hockey fans know that its 10x tougher to build a great team around your top picks, than make those picks in the first place. 

That is...listening to your scouting executives first choice, together with whatever meagre scouting you have time for, plus your own research, you give your approval to the consensus in the room.....hopefully.  Picking in the top ten is not rocket science which JB had 5 shots at.  Two worked out well.  One is still not playing on the big club, and two are not even playing in the NHL. So even then he ended up batting below .500.  But sure, in eight years time slogging in the bottom of the league, JB managed to pick future core pieces with his high draft positions.

 

But picking players, projecting them to "make it", who are rated the top ten in the world prospect pool, is not the hard part of the job.  You may get the most glory from that part, as you and a couple of others seem to fall for. but its not a huge part of the day to day wheeling and dealing of a GM's job.  That's where the work comes in. Your trades and FA acquisitions. And how frugal you are with re-signings. 

 

Every GM has a few advantages from the last GM. Benning had two first round picks gifted to him by Gillis to start his term. He had a stable of SCF veterans, whose trade value is always inflated, to wheel and deal. And a young Horvat and Tanev to build around. 

 

Its what they do with any advantages. And how quickly they get themselves out of disadvantages that separates mediocre GMs from great GMs.  Benning was a disaster from the start, and just kept digging.  How many trades or FA signings stand out for JB?  And in a good way? Can you list them for us? The Miller trade was one. Even though some still argue that the age difference from the main core was bad timing.  I still like the trade. But what other actions did JB make that stand out for you?  The top cap-friendly signings he made were Hughes and Demko.  I credit him there.  But that was also one of Gillis's strengths, getting hometown discounts from players, so maybe that doesn't count in assessing a GM for you.  But what else? in eight excruciating years?

 

You want to rest your argument for JB being a great GM based on nodding his head a couple of times on top ten picks on draft day.  A process that also included being the last person in the room to not see Petey's value over Cody Glass, but relenting on the consensus that time. (unlike when he waded in and demanded Joulevi).  And picking Hughes, which didn't take much work to figure out at all.  That part of the job is the glamorous part, displayed in public. you get to walk up to the stage and put another cap on another prospect. But the real work is when you get back to the office. 

 

 

[AnthonyG]

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

I think its just that many knowledgeable hockey fans know that its 10x tougher to build a great team around your top picks, than make those picks in the first place. 

Strongly disagree here.

without the core you have nothing to support. 
with a core in place, you have assets amongst your organization to acquire the smaller support pieces. 
 

No pick is a guarantee

no timeline is exact for development

injuries play a role as well.

 

Drafting and development are the hardest thing to do because you cannot control the outcome.

 

Its the painful, slow, tedious work of developing your picks into NHL talent that is key. 
 

 

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

That is...listening to your scouting executives first choice, together with whatever meagre scouting you have time for, plus your own research, you give your approval to the consensus in the room.....hopefully.  Picking in the top ten is not rocket science which JB had 5 shots at.  Two worked out well.  One is still not playing on the big club, and two are not even playing in the NHL. So even then he ended up batting below .500.  But sure, in eight years time slogging in the bottom of the league, JB managed to pick future core pieces with his high draft positions.

His first year here, he was hired 5 weeks prior to the draft. 
Its been said that Francesco Aquaweenie was the voice behind the Virtanen pick. Not only that but Benning was working with the old scouting regime. Right after that draft he changed that department. Thank you Benning.

 

Top 10 picks are not a guarantee, its all potential as is every pick.

 

OJ was derailed heavily by injury shortly after being drafted. We also needed a top 4 dman to develop.

we had 3 dmen drafted from ‘98 to 2015. Brian Allen and RIP Luc Bourdon. When do you plan on building a blueline if you had 11 forward picks from 2006-2014. If you want to continue drafting forwards, you’re going to have to start moving those players/picks to overpay for a dman. You need to start thinking organizational needs at some point. OJs final ranking was 6th. We had Jensen, Gaunce, Horvat and Shinkaruk as up and comers that we were waiting to see how they panned out when he stepped in. Then he added Virtanen, McCann and Boeser.. thats a ton of forwards, it only makes sense we consider a dman especially one whos final ranking was 6th, 1 place lower than his selection.

Go look at how many busts there have been in the top 10 the last 10 years. Its not as much of a guarantee as you would like to believe. Hell just go look at top 5 busts since 2014. just from 2014-20 you have MDC, Strome, PLD, JPP, Patrick, Glass, Andersson, Middlestadt*, Kotkaniemi, Hayton, Kakko, Dach, Byram*, Turcotte, Laffrieniere* and Byfield*
 

guys with an asterisk are guys who are teetering. Thats 16 top 5 picks. Thats just the top 5… now you go look at the top 10 and then you factor in a team who is rebuilding…. Thats fuckin bad odds dude. And we never had the fortune of a 1OA or top 3.

 

 

Benning also found pieces outside the top 10 who are contributors today. Boeser, Hoglander, Demko. 

He also found value in McCann which was enough to acquire a former 3rd overall pick that soon became Pearson, which became DeSmith. He moved Burrows for Dahlen, then Dahlen for Karlsson quickly. Karlsson is now getting looks and Dahlen had his ass dumped.

if you look at McCanns trade tree, Benning got the absolute most out of his value. It took McCann YEARS to finally break out.

Look at how many picks have become NHLers because of Bennings changes to our scouting department and working with our scouts. Not every first round pick is a guarantee so it is to be expected SOMEONE is going to fail at some point.

 

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

 Your trades and FA acquisitions. And how frugal you are with re-signings. 

ALL of Bennings bad signings were during rebuilding years. Who cares?

His RFA negotiating, he fuckin KILLED it. Look at our cap hits today and WHY were able to build so much deeper and he also had to do this shit during an unexpected flattened cap. Bennings negotiations are what is giving us depth today.

His worst trade was OEL as you all make it out to be, yet OEL and his “other worst” signing Myers were a top 5 shutdown pair in the entire league 2021-22. It was Boudreau and co’s stupid idea to split them up last year and then OEL also playing through injury that led to a down season. Not to mention the leagues worst goaltending.

 

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

Every GM has a few advantages from the last GM. Benning had two first round picks gifted to him by Gillis to start his term. He had a stable of SCF veterans, whose trade value is always inflated, to wheel and deal. And a young Horvat and Tanev to build around. 

And not every GM has disadvantages like a cap recapture, a flattened cap, virtually no prospects, aged out worthless core with countless NMCs and NTCs guys who refuse to waive and another guy who nixed a deal last minute forcing you to take a last second deal with your only option. And then always having to draft from 5 and down never 5 and up.

 

his stable SCF vets… look how much value they brought in trades, early retirement and then how many more games they played after being moved… showing just how little they had left in the tank.

 

1 hour ago, kilgore said:

Its what they do with any advantages. And how quickly they get themselves out of disadvantages that separates mediocre GMs from great GMs.  Benning was a disaster from the start, and just kept digging.  How many trades or FA signings stand out for JB?  And in a good way? Can you list them for us? The Miller trade was one. Even though some still argue that the age difference from the main core was bad timing.  I still like the trade. But what other actions did JB make that stand out for you?  The top cap-friendly signings he made were Hughes and Demko.  I credit him there.  But that was also one of Gillis's strengths, getting hometown discounts from players, so maybe that doesn't count in assessing a GM for you.  But what else? in eight excruciating years?

 

Look how quickly he was able to work around the surpise of a flat cap and let declining players walk and still find ways to bring in equal or near equal caliber players. Not only that but like a wise GM… he targeted SCF/SCW players like you mentioned he was “gifted”. He built support in ways of bringing experience to the youth, which is HIGHLY useful, wether you are a competitive team or not, experience goes a loooooong way. 
 

You tell me how many bad trades? Toffoli was a good trade, too bad it was affected by a flattened cap right after.  The OEL trade still gave us Garland who is a fuckin huge part of us winning when our top 6 is struggling. He has been crucial in quite a large chunk of this season, keeping his line going, creating offence and chances.

Guenther is still not a guarantee and OEL is back to himself now that hes healthy and on a contending team. This boneheaded GM chose a pretty hefty buyout penalty over cap retention on anyone. Now we have dead cap and 3 years of pretty bad dead cap.

coulda done Myers at 50%
moved Garland or Boeser after 2021-22. 
woulda been smarter to move Kuzmenko (which I was vocal right away about not being sold on him day 1) and kept Horvat.

Kuzmenko woulda got us Hronek and we’d have a legit 2C. Now we got a wasted asset and gotta go shopping.

now we have dead cap during our contending years. Thats fuckin dumb as fuck.

 

Right now are the critical years of cap and asset management. This group will either extend the window, or close it much sooner like Gillis did if they are not more careful.

you act like Gillis got players to take discounts on a struggling team. 
we were a contending organization with sooooo much talent that its clear, sign here and you got a chance at a cup. 
also helps when you have home town guys willing to take discounts and WANTING to play for their home town team. Gillis is heavily overrated and its clear why he has never been given another opportunity.

 

Also.. lets be real… Horvat and Tanev are not the guys you build a team around. If thats what you wanna build around, get used to being a doormat.

 

2 hours ago, kilgore said:

 

 You want to rest your argument for JB being a great GM based on nodding his head a couple of times on top ten picks on draft day.  A process that also included being the last person in the room to not see Petey's value over Cody Glass, but relenting on the consensus that time. (unlike when he waded in and demanded Joulevi).  And picking Hughes, which didn't take much work to figure out at all.  That part of the job is the glamorous part, displayed in public. you get to walk up to the stage and put another cap on another prospect. But the real work is when you get back to the office. 

He listened to his scouts.  He did his part and doubled up scouting on Pettersson to make sure there is a clear, unanimous decision on the next franchise player. 

 

I rest my argument on Benning being here to BUILD and develop. Hence his focus on cup experienced players after drafting and acquiring our entire core. If you didnt notice or understand why I said Burke+Nonis=Benning its because they were the two who were here to build and were responsible for development. Allvin has helped with some development and is now taking role of Gillis in closing out a cup. Benning was never here to win a cup. He was here to build. You all think he was hired to win. That is a naive thought and shallow perception.

 

while rebuilding he made playoffs twice in 6 years, went from no real serious prospects or anyone to replace the 2010-11 core, to playoffs two seasons after the twins retired and the core was essentially gone. He turned the future around so much faster than ANYONE could anticipate.

 

NJD 1 playoff appearance in 12 years. Looked scary last year, back to questionable this year. Be thankful for what we have today, thanks to Benning. His work cost us zero core pieces and hasnt prevented us from contending today. The pressure and microscope is now on this management to make sure they do not fucking waste the prime of this core and right now 10 mil in underperforming wasted cap and soon to be 4 mil in an additional cap all during prime years. The window is open, but for how long?

[filthy animal]

21 hours ago, PureQuickness said:

The Canucks are successful TODAY because of JR/Allvin, Tocchet, and Benning's core. We knew players like Pettersson, Hughes, and Demko are amazing, but they never truly flourished under Benning's watch for many different reasons. Still, Benning, hate him or love him, was a major factor in this current team. Oh, and we do have Miller - a rare Benning trade. I still remember reading the posters who automatically slagged the trade as being an overpayment. Those posters are never going to hold themselves accountable for the most part about their incorrect opinions.

 

It's mind-boggling to me that people still talk about Gillis' playoff runs (rightfully so) while dismissing his obvious failures to draft and develop his own. One poster even went as far as to say playoff runs matter more than drafting. What a joke. It's as if you couldn't do both.

 

This management, which I had been wrong about, has done an amazing job adding their own touches to this team.

 

Gillis and Benning are in the past. It's time to move on.

 

So whats the main purpose of drafting then? to keep the guys in hockeydb occupied? You draft/ develop players to make the team to eventually WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS

 

Yeah you could do both, easier said than done. Benning drafted better, and hardly made it to the playoffs, Gillis drafted terribly but won a lot of games. Guess which GM had the bars/ arena packed to the mammary glands during April May and that one great run in June? Winning gets the whole city fired up.

 

Let me ask you this, were you of legal age and have a sliver of a social life during the playoffs during the Gillis, Nonis Burkes, hell even the one measly run (that had home games) that Benning had? or were getting shoved in the locker one too many times while your buddies were having a good time. When the beers are flowing, the city is vibrant with playoff fever, nobody was talking about the Grabner trade, draft picks thrown out the door. When the team is very competitive like those teams like this current Rutherford Alvin squad, nobody cares what picks they trade. So anybody crying spilled milk over the Hronek trade? Or how about Tampa trading their 1st round picks (one from the Miller deal) for Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow? Nobody cares because they won the cup, 2 of them.

 

Winning supercedes everything, because that is the end game

 

Seriously? Its a forum, people can agree or disagree to whatever opinions people have, but holding themselves accountable? Why do you care so much whether people admit they are wrong or not? Its an effing forum with strangers that should matter little to anybodys lives here. Try getting yourself a life

 

Holding people accountable in a forum, too damn funny

Edited January 23 by filthy animal

[PureQuickness]

6 hours ago, filthy animal said:

 

So whats the main purpose of drafting then? to keep the guys in hockeydb occupied? You draft/ develop players to make the team to eventually WIN IN THE PLAYOFFS

 

Yeah you could do both, easier said than done. Benning drafted better, and hardly made it to the playoffs, Gillis drafted terribly but won a lot of games. Guess which GM had the bars/ arena packed to the mammary glands during April May and that one great run in June? Winning gets the whole city fired up.

 

Let me ask you this, were you of legal age and have a sliver of a social life during the playoffs during the Gillis, Nonis Burkes, hell even the one measly run (that had home games) that Benning had? or were getting shoved in the locker one too many times while your buddies were having a good time. When the beers are flowing, the city is vibrant with playoff fever, nobody was talking about the Grabner trade, draft picks thrown out the door. When the team is very competitive like those teams like this current Rutherford Alvin squad, nobody cares what picks they trade. So anybody crying spilled milk over the Hronek trade? Or how about Tampa trading their 1st round picks (one from the Miller deal) for Blake Coleman and Barclay Goodrow? Nobody cares because they won the cup, 2 of them.

 

Winning supercedes everything, because that is the end game

 

Seriously? Its a forum, people can agree or disagree to whatever opinions people have, but holding themselves accountable? Why do you care so much whether people admit they are wrong or not? Its an effing forum with strangers that should matter little to anybodys lives here. Try getting yourself a life

 

Holding people accountable in a forum, too damn funny

 

Gillis has no players on this core. In fact, he doesn't have any other NHL player in the league besides Horvat and Hutton, so it's not like they flourished elsewhere. Connauton never played in the Canucks and he had a reasonably ok career.

 

Enough said about that.

 

Gillis' legacy is pretty bad to be perfectly honest. The 2011 run was 13 years ago. It's great that we had that magical run, along with a couple of others, but he left behind a terrible prospect pool. That's not being brutally honest. That's just fact. If he had drafted better, he could've been a legendary GM.

 

Benning's core is currently running the main engine of this team. Like it or not, this is to the credit of Benning and his many regime subjects. Gillis couldn't even DRAFT a goaltender in any of the rounds using a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

 

We had Boeser (23rd overall) and Hoglander (2nd rounder) + Demko. And the 1st round trade for Miller (a rare successful trade for Benning who failed many trades). This doesn't excuse Benning for sucking as a GM though. Lots of bad trades.

 

GMing is more than just playoff runs. It's managing the team's futures as well. He clearly sucked at managing his futures. Look at the prospect pool that Benning had when he came in. Absolute dogshit.

 

Quit defending Gillis. He sucked when it came to constructing his own teams/core. There's a reason why he's not GMing on another team in the NHL, and so is Benning. They both failed at other parts of their jobs.

Edited January 23 by PureQuickness

[DSVII]

11 hours ago, PureQuickness said:

 

Gillis has no players on this core. In fact, he doesn't have any other NHL player in the league besides Horvat and Hutton, so it's not like they flourished elsewhere. Connauton never played in the Canucks and he had a reasonably ok career.

 

Enough said about that.

 

Gillis' legacy is pretty bad to be perfectly honest. The 2011 run was 13 years ago. It's great that we had that magical run, along with a couple of others, but he left behind a terrible prospect pool. That's not being brutally honest. That's just fact. If he had drafted better, he could've been a legendary GM.

 

Benning's core is currently running the main engine of this team. Like it or not, this is to the credit of Benning and his many regime subjects. Gillis couldn't even DRAFT a goaltender in any of the rounds using a 2nd or 3rd rounder.

 

We had Boeser (23rd overall) and Hoglander (2nd rounder) + Demko. And the 1st round trade for Miller (a rare successful trade for Benning who failed many trades). This doesn't excuse Benning for sucking as a GM though. Lots of bad trades.

 

GMing is more than just playoff runs. It's managing the team's futures as well. He clearly sucked at managing his futures. Look at the prospect pool that Benning had when he came in. Absolute dogshit.

 

Quit defending Gillis. He sucked when it came to constructing his own teams/core. There's a reason why he's not GMing on another team in the NHL, and so is Benning. They both failed at other parts of their jobs.

 

I mean, the context here is that Gillis really had one season to do a reset (against Ownership's wishes) with a coach he didn't want before being fired and Benning benefited from not only the patience of ownership but also considerably more draft capital and positions than GMMG. Considering he pulled Markstrom and Bo Horvat out of that, it's not a bad haul. 

 

A GM's job is more than drafting, and Demko aside, a lot of these breakouts from Benning's players are happening after PA and JR revamped the entire organization from coaching staff/system to development pipeline.  Hoglander and Podz for instance were finally given time to marinate in the AHL rather than thrown to the wolves like Jake and McCann.

 

Both absolutely deserved to be fired of course, but my judgment of the Gillis prospect pool is tempered a bit given the time and capital Gillis had to really commit to it (yes Gillis' team absolutely sucked at drafting, he himself admitted it and it cost him his job), same way I temper the credit to Benning as he's had more shots in the top 10 than any GM in our history and he hit 50% on that and Linden had to step in to change the way the draft was handled post 2016.. Am I glad Benning hit in that latter half? Sure, but he's going to remain a case study of what not to do for GMs for years to come in the salary cap era

 

 

Gillis is only being defended to the extent history is being re-written to prop up Benning for some strange reason. Evaluate both fairly and sure, I'll pile on Gillis, there's a lot of legitimate gripes with his regime. 

 

 

Edited January 23 by DSVII