What's wrong with Petey?

[Bounce000]

Ever since Petey D came to town, Petey F has been paranoid and constantly looking over his shoulder. There could only be one after all.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

5 hours ago, Canucks Nihilist said:

EP needs to take a page from the Sedins.

 

get stronger.   Sedins were noticeably better once their core strength etc improved and weren’t as easy to push off the puck.

 

EP needs to do the same.  I’m sure he has been given this advice - after all the Sedins are coaches for the team.    It will come.   And then he won’t be falling down and out muscled so often.  Aka he will make his own space - like the Sedins used to do (ok they weren’t bull dogs but relatively..::: hopefully that all makes some sense)

I wonder if it’s just genetics and he can’t gain muscle as easily as others and that is the issue. I think he tries to but how much of it is out of his control might be the issue. I also think he needs to get stronger in his upper and lower body. I just don’t know if he’s done everything to do that. I would assume so but who knows. I just don’t see him trying to be creative anymore like he use to. He gets points but it’s not the razzle dazzle we use to see from him. We rarely If ever see his hard slap shot goals that goalies couldn’t stop why he completely abandoned that is beyond me. It’s like he forgot who he is and what he can do. I really hope it’s a one off and next year he’s back to normal. I just don’t know if he can mentally do it.

[wai_lai416]

2 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I wonder if it’s just genetics and he can’t gain muscle as easily as others and that is the issue. I think he tries to but how much of it is out of his control might be the issue. I also think he needs to get stronger in his upper and lower body. I just don’t know if he’s done everything to do that. I would assume so but who knows. I just don’t see him trying to be creative anymore like he use to. He gets points but it’s not the razzle dazzle we use to see from him. We rarely If ever see his hard slap shot goals that goalies couldn’t stop why he completely abandoned that is beyond me. It’s like he forgot who he is and what he can do. I really hope it’s a one off and next year he’s back to normal. I just don’t know if he can mentally do it.

In terms of creativity i think it's just the type of hockey the coach wants them to play.. more hard work and grinding.. creativity leads to more turnover usually when they don't work and we've seen kuz scared to make plays as he'll be benched for every turnover.. i mean if u look at EP turnover rate this year it's significantly lower than his previous years where he average about .7-.8 per season he's down at .58 this season

[Canucks Nihilist]

Points come early in the season when everything is loose

 

winning comes at the end of the season when things are tight

 

supposedly! haha

 

Learning to play well the full season took the Sedins until they were 26/27.  Maybe earlier just think of the idea.

 

push through pain and produce.

 

its like me coding / programming for a 12 hour day.  After about 8 hours you kind of want to stop.  And at 10 hours you stare at the screen and don’t do anything for half an hour.    But if you force yourself you can still be productive.   Push through it.  Find the will.  It’s not easy physically nor mentally (granted physicality is completely different - harder! - when hockey is considered)… everyone is partially injured after half a year of non stop physical sports….

 

Sedins could have pushed through earlier.   Everyone doesn’t push through until they see the results of not pushing  - cause they are used to giving up.  For the Canucks they need to see what happens when they don’t push and figure it out…..   welcome to post all star play when you are supposed to be a top team.  It may take a few years…..  ideally they could have gotten experience before this year.   
 

they got a chance.  It’s about how good the leadership is in that room.  

[43isprime]

I promised @Bob Long I'd take a timeout...and he was absolutely right...my apologies...But just wanted to make a couple of observations given the discourse around Pettersson's linemates:

 

1. Better linemates won't make Pettersson skate faster or be stronger along the boards, will it?

 

2. Has Pettersson created space for himself and/or his linemates (whoever they may be) on a consistent basis? Think about how Hughes does this night in night out.

 

3. Has Pettersson consistently shown flashes of individual skill that lead to chances, only for those chances to be wasted by inferior linemates?

 

To me, Pettersson is excellent at converting chances when they are presented to him. He, however, is not able to create the chances on a consistent basis the way truly elite players are. I believe this is partly why his play can be sporadic.

 

[Bob Long]

32 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

I promised @Bob Long I'd take a timeout...and he was absolutely right...my apologies...But just wanted to make a couple of observations given the discourse around Pettersson's linemates:

 

1. Better linemates won't make Pettersson skate faster or be stronger along the boards, will it?

 

2. Has Pettersson created space for himself and/or his linemates (whoever they may be) on a consistent basis? Think about how Hughes does this night in night out.

 

3. Has Pettersson consistently shown flashes of individual skill that lead to chances, only for those chances to be wasted by inferior linemates?

 

To me, Pettersson is excellent at converting chances when they are presented to him. He, however, is not able to create the chances on a consistent basis the way truly elite players are. I believe this is partly why his play can be sporadic.

 

 

Thanks for the mention, but really, don't take me too seriously.

 

On Petey, yes I do think he can but he's being covered really aggressively, in part because hogs and Suter just aren't capable of being that physical. Hogs certainly doesn't shy from contact tho.

 

 

[MikeyD]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

In terms of creativity i think it's just the type of hockey the coach wants them to play.. more hard work and grinding.. creativity leads to more turnover usually when they don't work and we've seen kuz scared to make plays as he'll be benched for every turnover.. i mean if u look at EP turnover rate this year it's significantly lower than his previous years where he average about .7-.8 per season he's down at .58 this season

That's actually what I see being an issue with this team. If you have too few turnovers then you're not being creative enough offensively. It means you're not trying to find seams or move to areas which opens up lanes for others.

 

I really hate the mindset that turnovers are always a bad thing. Turnovers are bad when there's no support if you make a turnover. It's worth the risk if you have support, in my opinion. All of the best teams year after year all play risky creative hockey. Also understanding your team will take those risks leads to predictability if a turnover does occur. 

[AngryGoose]

Tocchett mentioned he needs play drivers on his wing.  Right now hes not like JT but w a good off season or two I think he can get there.  Also, a big part of creating offence for him is playing good defense and maybe hes learning how he needs that extra gear to do it.

[Pears]

I think we need to make it a priority this summer to get him a legit finisher/running mate for his line. Högs is working his way there on the left wing but we can't be taken seriously if we're stapling Pius Suter on his right wing and expect him to keep up with the other top dogs in this league. 

Edited March 18 by Pears

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

10 minutes ago, Pears said:

I think we need to make it a priority this summer to get him a legit finisher/running mate for his line. Högs is working his way there on the left wing but we can't be taken seriously if we're stapling Pius Suter on his right wing and expect him to keep up with the other top dogs in this league. 

The question is who is the right guy for the position, Suter is not the solution 

[Crabcakes]

13 minutes ago, Pears said:

I think we need to make it a priority this summer to get him a legit finisher/running mate for his line. Högs is working his way there on the left wing but we can't be taken seriously if we're stapling Pius Suter on his right wing and expect him to keep up with the other top dogs in this league. 

Allvin spent a lot to pick up Lindholm and why?  To show the big guns that they were serious to have a run at the cup this year?  Is he a really good 3C at the $9M salary he was rumoured to be asking from the Flames?

 

When you go down the long list of salaries that need renewing, I don't see Lindy on the list.  Not now anyways.  That's a lot for Allvin to have put up for a rental.

 

Suter, and Blueger I want to see back as our bottom 6 centres.  

 

I think you're right.  Lindholm won't be back and they need another top 6 winger who they can afford.

 

There's more to the puzzle of course

[Breadnbutta]

10 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Allvin spent a lot to pick up Lindholm and why?  To show the big guns that they were serious to have a run at the cup this year?  Is he a really good 3C at the $9M salary he was rumoured to be asking from the Flames?

 

When you go down the long list of salaries that need renewing, I don't see Lindy on the list.  Not now anyways.  That's a lot for Allvin to have put up for a rental.

 

Suter, and Blueger I want to see back as our bottom 6 centres.  

 

I think you're right.  Lindholm won't be back and they need another top 6 winger who they can afford.

 

There's more to the puzzle of course

I think once Joshua comes back they will try petey and lindy together again 

 

They may catch lightning in a bottle.

 

Once Josh is back I hope they reunite the law firm 

 

Lindy has been a bit underwhelming but at least he's very versatile 

Edited March 18 by Breadnbutta

[Hammertime]

On 3/14/2024 at 4:14 PM, Jester13 said:

Petey needs a legit winger to play with him. Hogs will continue to progress on Petey's line, but Suter is not a 2nd line player. Petey can't do it all under a structured system.

With what money? 11.6m is a lot of cheese. Hughes also needs a partner. Miller makes 8 so we can afford him 3.6m more in wingers. 6m IMO should be the absolute cap to spend on "support" wingers for Pete. 

 

The Lotto line is the dumbest idea ever. You go to it out of desperation when you're trying to generate something to claw your way back into a game. It's not a go to good idea to run a 1 line team. 

[Crabcakes]

2 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Thanks for the mention, but really, don't take me too seriously.

 

On Petey, yes I do think he can but he's being covered really aggressively, in part because hogs and Suter just aren't capable of being that physical. Hogs certainly doesn't shy from contact tho.

 

 

This ^^^

 

Hogs maybe, he's Gallagher lite.  Suter is the best they've got right now.  Lindy isn't the answer either.  He's his own man not someone to back up Petey.  What he needs is size, grit, smarts, 20 goals at $4M aav

[Pears]

21 minutes ago, Crabcakes said:

Allvin spent a lot to pick up Lindholm and why?  To show the big guns that they were serious to have a run at the cup this year?  Is he a really good 3C at the $9M salary he was rumoured to be asking from the Flames?

 

When you go down the long list of salaries that need renewing, I don't see Lindy on the list.  Not now anyways.  That's a lot for Allvin to have put up for a rental.

 

Suter, and Blueger I want to see back as our bottom 6 centres.  

 

I think you're right.  Lindholm won't be back and they need another top 6 winger who they can afford.

 

There's more to the puzzle of course

Oh I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying stick Lindholm between Miller and Boeser and find someone for Petey's RW. That would solidify our top six. 

[43isprime]

1 hour ago, AngryGoose said:

Tocchett mentioned he needs play drivers on his wing.  Right now hes not like JT but w a good off season or two I think he can get there.  Also, a big part of creating offence for him is playing good defense and maybe hes learning how he needs that extra gear to do it.

 

Would you happen to remember the quote about Pettersson needing play drivers on his wing?

 

[Breadnbutta]

His inconsistency is frustrating and making him very polarizing in the media and fan base.

 

If I remember correctly the sedins were similar early on. But Pete had much earlier success than they did.

 

Hopefully he rounds out his form before the playoffs 

[Crabcakes]

1 hour ago, Pears said:

Oh I'm not saying that at all. I'm saying stick Lindholm between Miller and Boeser and find someone for Petey's RW. That would solidify our top six. 

That's an interesting take and one I haven't seen before.  I'd really like to see that.

 

I'm still not sure how Lindholm is a fit salary wise.  He only stays if they can't do without him.  Maybe if Tocc try's it your way.  

[wai_lai416]

8 hours ago, Hammertime said:

With what money? 11.6m is a lot of cheese. Hughes also needs a partner. Miller makes 8 so we can afford him 3.6m more in wingers. 6m IMO should be the absolute cap to spend on "support" wingers for Pete. 

 

The Lotto line is the dumbest idea ever. You go to it out of desperation when you're trying to generate something to claw your way back into a game. It's not a go to good idea to run a 1 line team. 

there are plenty of team that spends big on 1 line.. colordo spends 27mil on their top line. edmonton spends 23mil on their top line. we split our resource in the top 6 and have a bunch of overpaid salary elsewhere mikheyev garland lindholm myers etc and we end up with 1 decent line with miller/boeser and very mediocre 2nd line and expensive as hell 3rd/4th line.. at point mikheyev garland and lindholm are all playing in the bottom 6.. those 3 combine cost more than EP's line this year by a fair chunk.. and even if we factor in ep raise next season if he's stuck with suter and hoglander.. those 3 still cost as much as them. if the narrative is miller makes player around him better..than why not put miler with the lesser players instead?

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, Breadnbutta said:

His inconsistency is frustrating and making him very polarizing in the media and fan base.

 

If I remember correctly the sedins were similar early on. But Pete had much earlier success than they did.

 

Hopefully he rounds out his form before the playoffs 

The Sedins were put in a second line role early.   They had a lot of trouble finding a winger that would work with him, although Klatt was ok, one year of Carter was good.    They struggled for years...then the lockout, and everything started to fall in place.    They got their space, and were working hard on getting stronger.    They were tough, constantly took the lumber.  

 

If it wasn't for those early years, having to battle against the likes of Hatcher, Ludgwig, Pronger etc,  i doubt they'd have become the player's they did either.    There is no way EP would have had his rookie of the year performance back then either.    Matheson, that would have happened or worse, within the first week.    Games changed.    EP probably needs to be more selfish until he gets better linemate's, to make a bigger impact (look to score, take more shots).   And continue to grow the body. 

Edited March 18 by IBatch

[IBatch]

40 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

there are plenty of team that spends big on 1 line.. colordo spends 27mil on their top line. edmonton spends 23mil on their top line. we split our resource in the top 6 and have a bunch of overpaid salary elsewhere mikheyev garland lindholm myers etc and we end up with 1 decent line with miller/boeser and very mediocre 2nd line and expensive as hell 3rd/4th line.. at point mikheyev garland and lindholm are all playing in the bottom 6.. those 3 combine cost more than EP's line this year by a fair chunk.. and even if we factor in ep raise next season if he's stuck with suter and hoglander.. those 3 still cost as much as them. if the narrative is miller makes player around him better..than why not put miler with the lesser players instead?

So instead play EP with Brock.   That's the only "better player" Millers got.   Who before this year, was a huge whipping boy.   Hogs worked well with Miller.   Should work well with EP too.  Mikheyev...let's hope his knee is better.    Still has a chance to be this teams version of Pearson.    Cost to trade won't be palatable. 

 

As for Lindholm, i'm sure that either Joshua is going to the second line, or Lindholm.    Thirst line makes sense.   We've got Miller and Brock as a pair.   In the past anyways,  Brock and EP haven't had a lot of success without Miller on that line as well.   So doubt that's happening.    Lindholm likely moves up soon is my guess. 

 

BTW,  those overpaid guys, Myers is way overpaid yes.   Mikheyev this year absolutely.   Garland isn't as bad.   He's been paid to score around 44 points as the "par" line this year.    Brock is been paid to score 60...Miller 75 or so.  EP this year, 70 or so.    Lindholm..:he was this years Horvat.     Personally i'd like to see him play center, and move EP to the wing.    Won 4 in a row then lost one ..: so not sure what Tochett will do.   

 

Edit:  Garland playing middle six mostly 3rd line .... 52,46,32 so far.   Almost all of them EV points.   Could we be getting better bang for the buck?  You bet.   Overpaid yes a bit, we could also do a lot worse via free agency.  So far he's met expectations 2 of 3 years, and one could argue that this year he's having his best season despite probably ending up with 40 or points...  If you want to find a UFA winger who scores more, it's going to cost more.    

 

Mikheyev has been a black hole.   Playing with EP most of the time.  Unfortunate. 

 

 

 

Edited March 18 by IBatch

[Breadnbutta]

37 minutes ago, IBatch said:

The Sedins were put in a second line role early.   They had a lot of trouble finding a winger that would work with him, although Klatt was ok, one year of Carter was good.    They struggled for years...then the lockout, and everything started to fall in place.    They got their space, and were working hard on getting stronger.    They were tough, constantly took the lumber.  

 

If it wasn't for those early years, having to battle against the likes of Hatcher, Ludgwig, Pronger etc,  i doubt they'd have become the player's they did either.    There is no way EP would have had his rookie of the year performance back then either.    Matheson, that would have happened or worse, within the first week.    Games changed.    EP probably needs to be more selfish until he gets better linemate's, to make a bigger impact (look to score, take more shots).   And continue to grow the body. 

Very true.

 

He gets compared to Miller a lot and I mean Miller is like what, 5 years older? 

 

I think Pete will figure it out, hopefully this year 

[Hammertime]

55 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

there are plenty of team that spends big on 1 line.. colordo spends 27mil on their top line. edmonton spends 23mil on their top line. we split our resource in the top 6 and have a bunch of overpaid salary elsewhere mikheyev garland lindholm myers etc and we end up with 1 decent line with miller/boeser and very mediocre 2nd line and expensive as hell 3rd/4th line.. at point mikheyev garland and lindholm are all playing in the bottom 6.. those 3 combine cost more than EP's line this year by a fair chunk.. and even if we factor in ep raise next season if he's stuck with suter and hoglander.. those 3 still cost as much as them. if the narrative is miller makes player around him better..than why not put miler with the lesser players instead?

He's dragging Brock who doesn't seem capable of playing without daddy Miller. If Pete could get as much out of Brock I would say play them together. 

[wai_lai416]

37 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

He's dragging Brock who doesn't seem capable of playing without daddy Miller. If Pete could get as much out of Brock I would say play them together. 

who knows we will never know coz we know that ain't gonna happen.. and brock is prolly still a 30g 60p guy without miller.. he was literally our best player during that shortened season iirc. the problem with our cap structure is we are paying high end player but spreading them all over the lineup.. if you are paying high end player.. might as well stack them up.. if you are going to spread out the players.. then you might as well sign a bunch of mid tier top 6 players instead of signing like 2 higher end top 6 in ep and miller and then spread them out and not give them proper linemates to play with.. out of all the playoff teams this season EP plays on one of the cheapest cap hit line (pre retention from trade) with the exception of couple like philly with a bunch on elc/cheap contract even if you factor in the raise to 11.6 next season if the line stays as it is he's still in the bottom half of the league in terms of cap hit for his entire line. at this point i rather see them play miller and ep together along with like a hoglander or something and then move boeser in the off season and have 2-3 4-5mil proper top 6 (not ones that were never a top 6 in their career like mikheyev) for the 2nd line instead

[TheGuardian]

EP is a "professional" now?

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkx8H7CbmKfc7kjIqoMLyCICPqN2SJCsxAq?si=gJm6S0Z9nJow1w1p