[First Round] Dallas Stars (C1) vs. Vegas Golden Knights (WC2)

[Bob Long]

13 hours ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Vegas Non-Vital Organs.

[Bounce000]

Game 1 mode activate

 

 

[BabychStache]

Make it a simpler cap. 

 

$85M in AAV every game. No LTIR, nothing. IF a team wants a $200M payroll, awesome, but you can only dress max $85M every game. Have $100M in the press box, who cares. 

[HKSR]

16 minutes ago, Bounce000 said:

Game 1 mode activate

 

 

This is a league wide joke now... if it happened once or even twice, fine... but when it's 3 years in a row, it's pretty damn obvious something isn't right.  If VGK does some serious damage these playoffs or wins back to back Cups, I'm convinced it'll be dealt with as it'll be discussed and scrutinized to death across all media outlets across the league.

[DeNiro]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

This is a league wide joke now... if it happened once or even twice, fine... but when it's 3 years in a row, it's pretty damn obvious something isn't right.  If VGK does some serious damage these playoffs or wins back to back Cups, I'm convinced it'll be dealt with as it'll be discussed and scrutinized to death across all media outlets across the league.

Well at least they’re going up against the best team in the West.

 

Either team getting knocked out is a heavyweight gone in the first round.

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Well at least they’re going up against the best team in the West.

 

Either team getting knocked out is a heavyweight gone in the first round.

Yeah, I feel like 2 heavyweights will be gone in the 1st round...

 

DAL or VGK

COL or WPG

 

With any luck, WPG and VGK get through, and Canucks make it through.

 

Then it'll be:

WPG vs VGK

VAN vs EDM/LA

 

I'd like our chances then as whoever wins in the WPG/VGK series would be so beaten up playing through 2 very difficult rounds.

[DrJockitch]

20 minutes ago, HKSR said:

This is a league wide joke now... if it happened once or even twice, fine... but when it's 3 years in a row, it's pretty damn obvious something isn't right.  If VGK does some serious damage these playoffs or wins back to back Cups, I'm convinced it'll be dealt with as it'll be discussed and scrutinized to death across all media outlets across the league.

The players like the LTIR rules, the owners do because the bad teams can dump contracts and the good teams can load up and I guarantee you if it is Vegas winning the cup, the League likes it. 
So why would they change, revenue is up, team value is up only the fans that complain about everything when their teams don’t win are upset but not enough to stop spending. 

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

The players like the LTIR rules, the owners do because the bad teams can dump contracts and the good teams can load up and I guarantee you if it is Vegas winning the cup, the League likes it. 
So why would they change, revenue is up, team value is up only the fans that complain about everything when their teams don’t win are upset but not enough to stop spending. 

Teams don't like LTIR.  They like using LTIR if the player can miss the rest of the regular season and return for the playoffs.  There's a massive difference between the two.

 

I'm willing to bet 31 owners don't like it if one team 'cheats' their way to more money in their pockets 2 years in a row.

[DrJockitch]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Teams don't like LTIR.  They like using LTIR if the player can miss the rest of the regular season and return for the playoffs.  There's a massive difference between the two.

 

I'm willing to bet 31 owners don't like it if one team 'cheats' their way to more money in their pockets 2 years in a row.

Disagree completely.  You don't hear the GMs whining and it doesn't come up in the meetings.  The teams play the system, bad teams cut contracts late in the season and get picks.  Players like it too.  Only ones who don't seem too are the whiny fans in different markets, but they don't vote with their wallets or haven't.

It is fodder for talk radio and bitter fans and that is about it.

For the most part owner's don't care about competitive balance, they care about profit and this doesn't affect profit, the splits are the same and franchise profit and values continue to sore..

They aren't cheating, if they were there would be consequences.  They are following the rules as they are written.

The league didn't care when a small market team in TB did this they certainly don't care when their new billion dollar babies do it.

[HKSR]

11 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Disagree completely.  You don't hear the GMs whining and it doesn't come up in the meetings.  The teams play the system, bad teams cut contracts late in the season and get picks.  Players like it too.  Only ones who don't seem too are the whiny fans in different markets, but they don't vote with their wallets or haven't.

It is fodder for talk radio and bitter fans and that is about it.

For the most part owner's don't care about competitive balance, they care about profit and this doesn't affect profit, the splits are the same and franchise profit and values continue to sore..

They aren't cheating, if they were there would be consequences.  They are following the rules as they are written.

The league didn't care when a small market team in TB did this they certainly don't care when their new billion dollar babies do it.

And I disagree completely.  Teams don't acquire LTIR contracts because they count against the cap.  It affects a team's ability to accrue cap space and so have less to work with at the TDL.  You're confusing what VGK is doing with simply LTIR.  NOBODY has an issue with LTIR in the sense that it is designed to allow teams to replace injured players, but I assure you there are plenty of players, coaches, and owners that don't approve with how one team can have a 100M team for the playoffs whereas another has an $83.5M team. 

 

Revenue sharing doesn't mean equal profits.  You're mistaken on how revenue sharing works.  The teams that generate the most revenue (EDM and TOR) still make a TON more AFTER revenue sharing than the Arizona Coyotes would.  The Coyotes might get an extra $10M or so, but certainly wouldn't make it so EDM/TOR profit the same as ARZ.  What owner would hang onto a top 10 revenue generating franchise if all it means is that they give up all their profits to another team?  Makes ZERO sense.  Believe me, if the Canucks make the Finals or win a Cup, Aquilini would benefit WAY, WAY more financially than just sitting back and allowing VGK to win another Cup.

 

Like I said, if it's once or even twice, I think the media would just move on... but this is 3 years in a row and VGK just won a Cup.  If they win another one, you gotta be kidding yourself if LTIR isn't gonna be front and centre across the entire league.

[DrJockitch]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

And I disagree completely.  Teams don't acquire LTIR contracts because they count against the cap.  It affects a team's ability to accrue cap space and so have less to work with at the TDL.  You're confusing what VGK is doing with simply LTIR.  NOBODY has an issue with LTIR in the sense that it is designed to allow teams to replace injured players, but I assure you there are plenty of players, coaches, and owners that don't approve with how one team can have a 100M team for the playoffs whereas another has an $83.5M team. 

 

Revenue sharing doesn't mean equal profits.  You're mistaken on how revenue sharing works.  The teams that generate the most revenue (EDM and TOR) still make a TON more AFTER revenue sharing than the Arizona Coyotes would.  The Coyotes might get an extra $10M or so, but certainly wouldn't make it so EDM/TOR profit the same as ARZ.  What owner would hang onto a top 10 revenue generating franchise if all it means is that they give up all their profits to another team?  Makes ZERO sense.  Believe me, if the Canucks make the Finals or win a Cup, Aquilini would benefit WAY, WAY more financially than just sitting back and allowing VGK to win another Cup.

 

Like I said, if it's once or even twice, I think the media would just move on... but this is 3 years in a row and VGK just won a Cup.  If they win another one, you gotta be kidding yourself if LTIR isn't gonna be front and centre across the entire league.

Actually I understand the first point very well, just disagree with your conclusions. This is part of the LTIR system, and the players and owners both seem to like to be able to add extra movement and showcase players on ending contracts that would have been stuck languishing out of the playoffs if someone wasn’t playing the LTIR system.   The owners, GMs and players have had numerous chances to bring it up and have universally said, nah we are good with how it is. 
 

Second paragraph is nice but has nothing to do with anything, never mentioned revenue sharing in anything. Overall the economic system is working and team values are up and profits are up, the use of LTIR in this way doesn’t affect that. The success of Vegas is held up to say your next expansion franchise will come in and can be great, that is why the next expansions will be 1.5-2B each.  Why even discuss the Arizona Coyotes when discussing playoff related issues?

 

The BOG didn’t care when it was TB doing it and they are thrilled that Vegas won the cup and really don’t care how they did it. They would love to hold up a Vegas dynasty in front of the next round of expansion.  It won’t be front and centre other than on congratulations, if it  was something they were concerned about they have had numerous chances to address it with both TB and LVK, but they don’t care as it doesn’t affect what they care about. 

[Master Mind]

I hope this one is more interesting than last year where Vegas went up 3-0.

[greenbean30]

Of course he is back for game 1, everyone knew it was going to happen as soon as he went on LTIR in Feb. It's cap circumvention, you're telling me he wouldn't have been cleared last week? I highly doubt it.

 

Easiest way to stop this situation from happening anymore is make it so you can only dress a team that would fit under that years cap during the playoffs, using the players caphits from the season. You can carry $150m during the playoffs, but cap is $92m? Can only dress a $92m team.

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, DrJockitch said:

Actually I understand the first point very well, just disagree with your conclusions. This is part of the LTIR system, and the players and owners both seem to like to be able to add extra movement and showcase players on ending contracts that would have been stuck languishing out of the playoffs if someone wasn’t playing the LTIR system.   The owners, GMs and players have had numerous chances to bring it up and have universally said, nah we are good with how it is. 
 

Second paragraph is nice but has nothing to do with anything, never mentioned revenue sharing in anything. Overall the economic system is working and team values are up and profits are up, the use of LTIR in this way doesn’t affect that. The success of Vegas is held up to say your next expansion franchise will come in and can be great, that is why the next expansions will be 1.5-2B each.  Why even discuss the Arizona Coyotes when discussing playoff related issues?

 

The BOG didn’t care when it was TB doing it and they are thrilled that Vegas won the cup and really don’t care how they did it. They would love to hold up a Vegas dynasty in front of the next round of expansion.  It won’t be front and centre other than on congratulations, if it  was something they were concerned about they have had numerous chances to address it with both TB and LVK, but they don’t care as it doesn’t affect what they care about. 

Nobody is saying to get rid of LTIR.  They're saying that teams shouldn't be able to use LTIR to their advantage to be able to replace a player in the regular season, only to have both the replacements and the injured player return for the playoffs.  Literally double dipping on a single cap hit.

 

They haven't had numerous chances to address it.  They can't address it right now.  This can't be addressed at a BOG meeting.  It needs to go through bargaining.  The last GM meeting it was brought up and the executive is working through putting a committee together to look at the issue more in depth.  So it IS something on their radar.  It IS an issue that they are looking at.  Whether they do anything about it or not I believe will come from what happens these playoffs with VGK.  If VGK is knocked out in Round 1, I doubt they will care about it... but if VGK wins another Cup, it'll shock me if it isn't discussed in immense detail the next round of CBA negotiations.

 

You said "they care about profit and this doesn't affect profit, the splits are the same and franchise profit and values continue to sore.. "  If owners care about their profits, you gotta be outta your damn mind if you don't think they care about their team winning a Cup.  Their profits would sky rocket FAR more than if VGK wins and your team is bounced in the 1st round. 

 

I brought up revenue sharing because like you're iterating here "splits are the same".  NO.  They are not.

Here are the numbers across the NHL from a few years ago (and they are ALREADY ADJUSTED FOR REVENUE SHARING):

 

So no, the splits are not the same.  If a team does well, they make more money for the owner.  PERIOD.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2020/12/09/nhl-team-values-2020-hockeys-first-decline-in-two-decades/?sh=3cd497ca70dd

 

 

[HKSR]

15 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Actually I understand the first point very well, just disagree with your conclusions. This is part of the LTIR system, and the players and owners both seem to like to be able to add extra movement and showcase players on ending contracts that would have been stuck languishing out of the playoffs if someone wasn’t playing the LTIR system.   The owners, GMs and players have had numerous chances to bring it up and have universally said, nah we are good with how it is. 
 

Second paragraph is nice but has nothing to do with anything, never mentioned revenue sharing in anything. Overall the economic system is working and team values are up and profits are up, the use of LTIR in this way doesn’t affect that. The success of Vegas is held up to say your next expansion franchise will come in and can be great, that is why the next expansions will be 1.5-2B each.  Why even discuss the Arizona Coyotes when discussing playoff related issues?

 

The BOG didn’t care when it was TB doing it and they are thrilled that Vegas won the cup and really don’t care how they did it. They would love to hold up a Vegas dynasty in front of the next round of expansion.  It won’t be front and centre other than on congratulations, if it  was something they were concerned about they have had numerous chances to address it with both TB and LVK, but they don’t care as it doesn’t affect what they care about. 

It's on the radar and it's gaining traction.  This would just be magnified if VGK wins another Cup using this 'loophole' 3 years in a row.

 

https://theathletic.com/5359753/2024/03/26/duhatschek-nhl-ltir-rules/

 

"But logically, if you need a salary cap to give every team a fair chance to compete from Game 1 to Game 82 of the regular season, why don’t you need a salary cap to give every team a fair chance to compete from the first game of the playoffs to the last?

And while I like the fresh idea cited here by our reader, I also think the solution is far simpler: Just make every team cap-compliant for every playoff game. It’s something I’ve been pushing off and on for years. If you read my colleague Pierre LeBrun’s story from the GMs meetings, it’s a point Holland brought up years ago that was seconded this time around by Dallas GM Jim Nill."

 

 

[iinatcc]

delete

Edited April 22 by iinatcc
delete

[DrJockitch]

42 minutes ago, HKSR said:

It's on the radar and it's gaining traction.  This would just be magnified if VGK wins another Cup using this 'loophole' 3 years in a row.

 

https://theathletic.com/5359753/2024/03/26/duhatschek-nhl-ltir-rules/

 

"But logically, if you need a salary cap to give every team a fair chance to compete from Game 1 to Game 82 of the regular season, why don’t you need a salary cap to give every team a fair chance to compete from the first game of the playoffs to the last?

And while I like the fresh idea cited here by our reader, I also think the solution is far simpler: Just make every team cap-compliant for every playoff game. It’s something I’ve been pushing off and on for years. If you read my colleague Pierre LeBrun’s story from the GMs meetings, it’s a point Holland brought up years ago that was seconded this time around by Dallas GM Jim Nill."

 

 

I agree the solution is simple and should be implemented I just don’t think the will is there from those that make the decisions.  
Would need to tweak a few things and even give a little more flexibility since there is no roster limit in the playoffs, so a “dressed player” cap would need to be the standard. 

I am not promoting the current system and I certainly didn’t suggest getting rid of LTIR.

I also think a lot of the “great” ideas here are horribly impractical and worse than the current system. 
 I also understand the chances that a player that has spent more than half his career on LTIR could very reasonably be injured at the start of the playoffs three years in a row. It isn’t even statistically uncommon that this would occur.  These are things validated by the medical staff, sometimes conspiracy theories are just that. 

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

I agree the solution is simple and should be implemented I just don’t think the will is there from those that make the decisions.  
Would need to tweak a few things and even give a little more flexibility since there is no roster limit in the playoffs, so a “dressed player” cap would need to be the standard. 

I am not promoting the current system and I certainly didn’t suggest getting rid of LTIR.

I also think a lot of the “great” ideas here are horribly impractical and worse than the current system. 
 I also understand the chances that a player that has spent more than half his career on LTIR could very reasonably be injured at the start of the playoffs three years in a row. It isn’t even statistically uncommon that this would occur.  These are things validated by the medical staff, sometimes conspiracy theories are just that. 

I agree.  As of this moment, I don't think the will is there to rock the boat either.  However, like I mentioned, IF VGK wins another Cup this year, I could see it gaining a lot of steam and traction.  The solution is so simple anyways... just make sure the cap is in place for the team that is iced during the playoffs.  You can carry a $200M roster for all I care, but you shouldn't be able to dress a roster that exceeds the cap limit.  It provides an unfair advantage.

[Mrwipeout]

only thing certain is that vegas are underdogs in this series....if they elevate their game then maybe. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

This could be the conference final in most other years. Vegas have looked pretty weak in the last 20 games though but you know their game is built for the playoffs, a bit like LA in their prime when they sucked in the regular season but played great gritty hockey in the postseason. Vegas though have looked suss defensively which is the main difference and they'll surely struggle against Dallas' very deep offence.

 

Dallas in 7 in a really rough series which is great for the Canucks. Hopefully that means we see Dallas vs Winnipeg in the next round (while we take the Oilers) and then end up with a Canucks vs Dallas WCF by which time surely Dallas will be physically worn down.

 

But let's not get ahead of ourselves lol

[Nucker67]

Dear little baby Jesus, please don't let those undeserving sinners from Vegas win again.

 

Stars in 6.

 

Edited April 23 by Nucker67

[1-d]

We had Sedinery and Vegas got jealous, so they created Stonery.

 

Sedinery represents pure class, harmony and joy. Stonery represents pure crap, larceny and cheating.

 

Vegas will discard Stone ruthlessly as soon as he's become fully healthy and played a full season, as per their standard practice.

[Jaimito]

Dislike both teams.  

 

Stone scores. 1-0. 

Spleen is ok. 

 

 

Edited April 23 by Jaimito

[24K]

Vegas Golden Cheater plan worked.

[HKSR]

Stone scores from Hanifin.  The miracle of LTIR folks.