[Discussion] Get rid of Embellishment - a simple plan

[VegasCanuck]

I'd the NHL wants to get this out of the game, and I think they should, there's a simple way to do it.

 

Slight delay in resuming play on suspected embellishment plays. This is triggered by off ice official. They quickly review the play and if they feel the player embellished, then the penalty is overturned and the embellishing player is assessed 2 minutes for Unsportsmanlike conduct / embellishments and 2 minutes for causing delay of game.

 

Implement that and embellishments will completely stop within a week.

 

Edited May 8 by VegasCanuck

[crobar]

I've never understood that if 1 player is called for embellishment why the other player still gets a penalty.

[NHLer]

22 minutes ago, crobar said:

I've never understood that if 1 player is called for embellishment why the other player still gets a penalty.

Two things can be true at once I guess? But yea, it doesn't discourage embellishment as it stands. 

[flat land fish]

7 minutes ago, NHLer said:

Two things can be true at once I guess? But yea, it doesn't discourage embellishment as it stands. 

They have the option of just taking the diver but rarely go that route.  I sympathize with hockey officials they make calls in a game with high speeds and lots going on.

[VegasCanuck]

36 minutes ago, flat land fish said:

They have the option of just taking the diver but rarely go that route.  I sympathize with hockey officials they make calls in a game with high speeds and lots going on.

This exactly, it's easy to miss when things are moving so fast. This is why I think handing down a double minor to a team, give them an Unsportsmanlike as well as a delay of game, same as shooting the puck over the glass and it will stop. Coaches will reign the players in really fast if properly motivated.

 

[flat land fish]

13 minutes ago, VegasCanuck said:

This exactly, it's easy to miss when things are moving so fast. This is why I think handing down a double minor to a team, give them an Unsportsmanlike as well as a delay of game, same as shooting the puck over the glass and it will stop. Coaches will reign the players in really fast if properly motivated.

 

Fair call for the obvious ones.

[Highstickin]

I don't like embellishment in hockey (or any sport for that matter) but I think I dislike video reviews even less. How many more lengthy stoppages do we need in a game? Review the truly relevant plays (basically just goals) and live with the human error elsewhere. 

 

I feel like the on ice officials mistake rate is a lot lower than we think. I have no data to support this so it is just my opinion. Stop slowing down the game for something that is not black and white to begin with. 

 

Goals - Black and white

Offside - Black and white (although not sure we really need to review)

Embellishment - massive grey area

[HKSR]

2 hours ago, flat land fish said:

They have the option of just taking the diver but rarely go that route.  I sympathize with hockey officials they make calls in a game with high speeds and lots going on.

 

1 hour ago, VegasCanuck said:

This exactly, it's easy to miss when things are moving so fast. This is why I think handing down a double minor to a team, give them an Unsportsmanlike as well as a delay of game, same as shooting the puck over the glass and it will stop. Coaches will reign the players in really fast if properly motivated.

 

Yeah its really difficult for officials to catch embellishments on the fly.  So I'd goto video reviews if it eventually eliminates embellishment.  Wouldn't take very long for the really bad embellishments to go away.  I'm talking the snapping head back ones where the stick doesn't even touch the head.  Good idea @VegasCanuck.  

[JayDangles]

It's really a tricky area. We've all seen recently how Forsberg threw his head back when a stick contacted his chest, which was full on selling a call, but then if you get hit in the face with a stick, regardless of how hard, youre going to throw your head back as a reaction. In slow motion this would look like embellishment whens its likely not. It's just a natural reaction.

 

The ones to me are selling a high sticking call when the stick doesnt hit the head, and diving to the ice or spinning around and falling when a stick is in your hands. 

Rarely would a simple hook result in a grown man falling to the ice.

I think those two are pretty easy to pick up on, even in real time.

 

At the end of the day if the refs start calling both, a hook and embellishment and they were getting the embellishment wrong sometimes, it would straighten the game out.

 

 

 

 

[VegasCanuck]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

 

Yeah its really difficult for officials to catch embellishments on the fly.  So I'd goto video reviews if it eventually eliminates embellishment.  Wouldn't take very long for the really bad embellishments to go away.  I'm talking the snapping head back ones where the stick doesn't even touch the head.  Good idea @VegasCanuck.  

I think if they implemented something like this where, even if play had resumed and the team had scored a goal on the powerplay, that gets taken away, clocks get reset and the team winds up with a double minor to kill off instead? Coaches are going to reign their guys in REAL fast.

[VegasCanuck]

What the hell, let's try and make hockey better. 

 

Please sign this and share it with everyone that you can think of. This is a Change.org petition, let's get it on other team boards as well:

 

https://chng.it/Vgxq2QgbTv

 

 

[King Heffy]

Every penalty needs to be getting reviewed, this process can be done remotely as soon as a ref puts his arm up to minimize slowing the game down.

Make a dive an automatic 5 and a game for first offence.

Second offence 1 game suspension, doubling each recurrence. 

Suspend any ref who decides not to call a dive that ends up with a player getting suspended.

[canuck73_3]

Need to change it so that Embellishment nullifies the call or else it will never stop. 

[Dats hockey]

I was talking about this with a buddy and we’ve come to the conclusion it’s too hard for a ref to make that call mid action BUT if you start suspending Diver and people that embellish, I have a hard time seeing people doing it in the playoffs.

[NoHeart]

If you’re caught embellishing you should have to stand against the boards and the player who was victimized by your embellishment gets to wind up and hit you with a slapper. 

[Ghostsof1915]

Double minor for unsportsmanlike, and delay of game would be a deterrent that coaches would bench the player the rest of the game.

But wouldn't it be like a 5 minute delay while it gets reviewed?

[Hairy Kneel]

On 5/8/2024 at 8:18 AM, crobar said:

I've never understood that if 1 player is called for embellishment why the other player still gets a penalty.

Shows that refs are uncomfortable calling embellishments. So it's easier for them to take 2 players off instead of only the diver.

It must be in their culture to ignore embellishments as to why their uncomfortable calling it.

But I like the 4 minute call to overturn a bad dive or snap back.

[King Heffy]

9 hours ago, Dats hockey said:

I was talking about this with a buddy and we’ve come to the conclusion it’s too hard for a ref to make that call mid action BUT if you start suspending Diver and people that embellish, I have a hard time seeing people doing it in the playoffs.

I'd even go a step further and not let the team replace the diver in the lineup.

[flat land fish]

Maybe if it's considered obvious embellishment post call they could hand out a 10 min misconduct

[spook007]

Is all the games not being reviewed by the NHL?

 

If so, you don't have to stop the games for lengthy discussions, but instead give a suspension to any player caught diving in the next game, and a heads up to the refs to pay attention to that player in the future...

 

The worst is the snapping their head back as if they've been hit, when its clear they haven't...  This will stop it instantly... football did similar in Scotland, and some of the diving vanished instantly....

[Combover]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:03 PM, spook007 said:

Is all the games not being reviewed by the NHL?

 

If so, you don't have to stop the games for lengthy discussions, but instead give a suspension to any player caught diving in the next game, and a heads up to the refs to pay attention to that player in the future...

 

The worst is the snapping their head back as if they've been hit, when its clear they haven't...  This will stop it instantly... football did similar in Scotland, and some of the diving vanished instantly....

 1 warning then automatic  1 game suspension if it’s deemed a dive upon review.

problem is this league, they’d still play favourites just like they do now.  

alternative 

embellishment calls should be reviewed if it can’t be determined he dove within about 15 seconds he probably didn’t. 

Maybe didn’t worry about the stupid shot audit worry about getting calls right, off ice refs could review calls the minute the on ice guys arm goes up. 

 

 

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Combover said:

 1 warning then automatic  1 game suspension if it’s deemed a dive upon review.

problem is this league, they’d still play favourites just like they do now.  

alternative 

embellishment calls should be reviewed if it can’t be determined he dove within about 15 seconds he probably didn’t. 

Maybe didn’t worry about the stupid shot audit worry about getting calls right, off ice refs could review calls the minute the on ice guys arm goes up. 

 

 

Cheers, yes I'd be in for anything that stops this ridiculous diving crap some seem expert in doing... It is frustrating and take away the one thing hockey have over lots of other teams sports, which is integrity...

 

I've always watched lots of soccer from my upbringing and do still follow it, but hockey is my antidote to all the garbage diving and play acting going on during football matches... The best thing (and probably the only good thing about VAR) was the ability to determine if players dived... Prior to VAR players in Scotland got an auto magic 3 days suspension, if they could be seen to be taking a dive that the ref hadn't spotted during the game.... ie going down without being touched... It stopped it within weeks... No team wants their players sitting in the stands for a game or two, because they dived...

 

Now of course if a quick review could somehow be implemented, it would be favourable, however I hate VAR for the time it takes, and it kills the intensity of the game... I don't want anymore stoppages in the games, if it can be avoided... But yes anything to stop this pathetic cheating would be welcomed by me...

[King Heffy]

1 hour ago, Combover said:

 1 warning then automatic  1 game suspension if it’s deemed a dive upon review.

problem is this league, they’d still play favourites just like they do now.  

alternative 

embellishment calls should be reviewed if it can’t be determined he dove within about 15 seconds he probably didn’t. 

Maybe didn’t worry about the stupid shot audit worry about getting calls right, off ice refs could review calls the minute the on ice guys arm goes up. 

 

 

Warning doesn't solve the problem; there needs to be immediate severe consequences.

1st offence - 1 game

2nd offence - 5 games

3rd offence - remainder of season

4th offence - lifetime ban

 

That'll cut out this shit real quick.

Edited Thursday at 01:54 AM by King Heffy

[IBatch]

On 5/8/2024 at 10:55 AM, VegasCanuck said:

I'd the NHL wants to get this out of the game, and I think they should, there's a simple way to do it.

 

Slight delay in resuming play on suspected embellishment plays. This is triggered by off ice official. They quickly review the play and if they feel the player embellished, then the penalty is overturned and the embellishing player is assessed 2 minutes for Unsportsmanlike conduct / embellishments and 2 minutes for causing delay of game.

 

Implement that and embellishments will completely stop within a week.

 

That sure would be nice.  

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, King Heffy said:

Warning doesn't solve the problem; there needs to be immediate severe consequences.

1st offence - 1 game

2nd offence - 5 games

3rd offence - remainder of season

4th offence - lifetime ban

 

That'll cut out this shit real quick.

5th offence