Hamas attacking Israel

[Optimist Prime]

A few headlines today that caught my eye. For those that still think Hamas should survive this war as an entity: Hamas is the enemy of the people of Gaza, not just the Israeli's.

Palestinians starve, Hamas attacks the check point that Israel finally agreed to open up and provide food through. Gee, what a surprise, said no one, ever. 

‘Full-blown famine’ happening in Gaza, WFP warns, amid fresh push for truce

‘Full-blown famine’ happening in Gaza, WFP warns, amid fresh push for truce

 

Hamas attacks Israel-Gaza border crossing as cease-fire talks continue

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hamas-attacks-israel-gaza-border-crossing-cease-fire-talks-continue/

 

Israel closes Kerem Shalom crossing with Gaza after Hamas attack

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-crossing-closed-after-attack-1.7194741

[Boudrias]

13 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

A few headlines today that caught my eye. For those that still think Hamas should survive this war as an entity: Hamas is the enemy of the people of Gaza, not just the Israeli's.

Palestinians starve, Hamas attacks the check point that Israel finally agreed to open up and provide food through. Gee, what a surprise, said no one, ever. 

‘Full-blown famine’ happening in Gaza, WFP warns, amid fresh push for truce

‘Full-blown famine’ happening in Gaza, WFP warns, amid fresh push for truce

 

Hamas attacks Israel-Gaza border crossing as cease-fire talks continue

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/hamas-attacks-israel-gaza-border-crossing-cease-fire-talks-continue/

 

Israel closes Kerem Shalom crossing with Gaza after Hamas attack

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/israel-gaza-crossing-closed-after-attack-1.7194741

Unfortunately starving Gazans feed the propaganda war that Hamas and their allies are propagating. The world is trying to download their responsibility for this mess onto Israel.  

[Canuck Surfer]

16 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Actually your timeline of what happened in 1948 is wrong and provably so. Framing the Arab response to Israel's declaration of independence as a bloodthirsty and unprovoked act of violence is also wrong. 

 

Israel declared independence on May 15 1948. Heres a few things that happened before that:

 

January 4th 1948- Lehi (Jewish terrorists) detonate a truck bomb civilians in Jaffa

April 25th 1948- Irgun bombs Jaffa

April 27th- Haganah invades the villages east of Jaffa

May 14th- 95% of the Arab population had fled for their lives

May 15th- Israel declares independence

 

The same events happened weeks earlier in Haifa, and in several other cities and towns that had majority arab populations that would eventually be cleansed of most of their arab populations. 

 

Israel took many cities by force, and while yes, rolling back history and sending everyone back to where they came from is ridiculous dumb and impossible, your blame of the displacement of those civilians on the bloodthirsty arabs is a gross rewriting of history. 

 

People try to play the same game in 1967, framing it as Arab aggression, when it was Israel who invaded Egypt, not the other way around. In that war, Israel illegally took more Palestinian territory, and still holds it to this day. Why is nobody calling on Israel to unconditionally return it/stop building settlements on it before further negotiations take place?

 

Im also curious which of the proposed compromises you considered to be fair? Why should they have taken any deal in 1948 that did not include them being able to go back to their homes? Or any year for that matter? 

 

If you were thrown out of your house by force, would you accept any deal that didn't include being able to come back?

 

The idiot (and there are many out there) think that this is a fight between evil bloodthirsty primitives vs innocents. It isn't. 

 

The cycle of violence we see today has a specific and clear injustice at its root. Address that, and work outwards from there, and thats how this conflict is solved.

 

Israel was attacked on all sides in 1948.  @Ilunga catalogued a host of terrorist activities by Israel's founding fathers. Others have posted Islamic pogroms on Jews.

 

I am not sure I called the displacement of Arab (Palestinian) civilians as blood thirsty.  I did call it posturing.  Most displaced, I read, were asked to leave by Arab sources.  That they could come back in a few days when all things political were settled. This was negotiating by Arab groups who postured for this land.  Then when it was not resolved in their favor; they attacked Jews, not Arabs.

 

My belief is they thought it would be a slaughter. They would own the territory; you pick which Arab group? The settlers could return under their rule. 

 

It just did not work out that way.  My point is when they could have accepted a territorial settlement. Had a homeland for Palestinian Arabs? It was rejected and the Arab groups attacked.  They lost that war & 80 years later are asking for territory back? 

[RomanPer]

14 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Israel was attacked on all sides in 1948.  @Ilunga catalogued a host of terrorist activities by Israel's founding fathers. Others have posted Islamic pogroms on Jews.

 

I am not sure I called the displacement of Arab (Palestinian) civilians as blood thirsty.  I did call it posturing.  Most displaced, I read, were asked to leave by Arab sources.  That they could come back in a few days when all things political were settled. This was negotiating by Arab groups who postured for this land.  Then when it was not resolved in their favor; they attacked Jews, not Arabs.

 

My belief is they thought it would be a slaughter. They would own the territory; you pick which Arab group? The settlers could return under their rule. 

 

It just did not work out that way.  My point is when they could have accepted a territorial settlement. Had a homeland for Palestinian Arabs? It was rejected and the Arab groups attacked.  They lost that war & 80 years later are asking for territory back? 

 

He won’t believe you, in his world it’s all Jews fault.

[Canuck Surfer]

5 Million Kurds have been displaced since the century mark year of 2000 by Turkey. This quantity has occurred at least three times since the end of WWI.  Almost half that by Iran. Where women get beaten by stones if they do not wear a Hijab, or protest not being able to work, go to school.

 

60,000 primarily Kurds were gassed by Saddam Hussein March 16, 1988.  60,000 dead in one day during the Halabja massacre. I called for George Bush's arrest at a protest in Vancouver, one I believe should have occurred.  He was not the worst criminal in the ME at that time frame.  Just Western, so draws more condemnation?

 

Obviously sill a massive tragedy, but more Muslim citizens were killed in one day, than nearly 8 months of all out war. Palestinians are not the most persecuted, Muslim, community. The plight of Kurdish communities, as I point out, is much larger, but also not the most tragic source of displacement or death in recent times either.  

 

The Syrian civil war saw over 350,000 civilian deaths in an 8 month stretch 8/9 years ago. Ten times what has occurred in Gaza. Hamas & Hezbollah, among others were combatants, or mercenaries for hire, profiting from weapons sales & territorial conquests here.

 

Yemeni & Sudanese civil wars dwarf casualty and displacement of Muslim civilian populations that occurred in Syria. 

 

 

Do Muslim populations get a free pass for their participation in such events @HarbularyBattery?  Is this a witch hunt because it's Jews & 'Americans,' quote / unquote popular opinion to blame? In my view Israel could, and should have reacted differently. Are opportunistic in stealing land; justifying it to (themselves) their people with the fact there is armed opposition. Make no mistake though, Hamas would have killed 350,000 Jews if they had a chance. Israel had to react.

 

My view is those that want peace for Palestinians should include asking for Sinwars arrest, and release of hostages. Accountability, and moving away from militant terrorism would be what I advise.  In part for practical reasons; why invite war with someone ten times more powerful than yourself?  

 

Israel has stolen land?  They have also given land back; see Gaza & Sinai.  Its my belief they will negotiate to leave Gaza again at some point soon.

 

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

On 5/4/2024 at 6:02 AM, Taxi said:

 

It was not the Israelis that started that war. Israel also absorbed about 700k Jews from the surrounding Arab and Muslim states. 

 

That was my point, but yes thanks!

[RomanPer]

1 hour ago, Canuck Surfer said:

5 Million Kurds have been displaced since the century mark year of 2000 by Turkey. This quantity has occurred at least three times since the end of WWI.  Almost half that by Iran. Where women get beaten by stones if they do not wear a Hijab, or protest not being able to work, go to school.

 

60,000 primarily Kurds were gassed by Saddam Hussein March 16, 1988.  60,000 dead in one day during the Halabja massacre. I called for George Bush's arrest at a protest in Vancouver, one I believe should have occurred.  He was not the worst criminal in the ME at that time frame.  Just Western, so draws more condemnation?

 

Obviously sill a massive tragedy, but more Muslim citizens were killed in one day, than nearly 8 months of all out war. Palestinians are not the most persecuted, Muslim, community. The plight of Kurdish communities, as I point out, is much larger, but also not the most tragic source of displacement or death in recent times either.  

 

The Syrian civil war saw over 350,000 civilian deaths in an 8 month stretch 8/9 years ago. Ten times what has occurred in Gaza. Hamas & Hezbollah, among others were combatants, or mercenaries for hire, profiting from weapons sales & territorial conquests here.

 

Yemeni & Sudanese civil wars dwarf casualty and displacement of Muslim civilian populations that occurred in Syria. 

 

 

Do Muslim populations get a free pass for their participation in such events @HarbularyBattery?  Is this a witch hunt because it's Jews & 'Americans,' quote / unquote popular opinion to blame? In my view Israel could, and should have reacted differently. Are opportunistic in stealing land; justifying it to (themselves) their people with the fact there is armed opposition. Make no mistake though, Hamas would have killed 350,000 Jews if they had a chance. Israel had to react.

 

My view is those that want peace for Palestinians should include asking for Sinwars arrest, and release of hostages. Accountability, and moving away from militant terrorism would be what I advise.  In part for practical reasons; why invite war with someone ten times more powerful than yourself?  

 

Israel has stolen land?  They have also given land back; see Gaza & Sinai.  Its my belief they will negotiate to leave Gaza again at some point soon.

 

 

 

 

As we say - “No Jews - no news”…

[HarbularyBattery]

2 hours ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

Israel was attacked on all sides in 1948.  @Ilunga catalogued a host of terrorist activities by Israel's founding fathers. Others have posted Islamic pogroms on Jews.

 

I am not sure I called the displacement of Arab (Palestinian) civilians as blood thirsty.  I did call it posturing.  Most displaced, I read, were asked to leave by Arab sources.  That they could come back in a few days when all things political were settled. This was negotiating by Arab groups who postured for this land.  Then when it was not resolved in their favor; they attacked Jews, not Arabs.

 

My belief is they thought it would be a slaughter. They would own the territory; you pick which Arab group? The settlers could return under their rule. 

 

It just did not work out that way.  My point is when they could have accepted a territorial settlement. Had a homeland for Palestinian Arabs? It was rejected and the Arab groups attacked.  They lost that war & 80 years later are asking for territory back? 

If you really want to understand why people were displaced, in 1985 the IDF published their own summary of the causes, in order of importance. You'll notice the first 3 are direct action against the Palestinian Arab population. https://www.akevot.org.il/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/1948ISReport-Eng.pdf

 

My issue is that you claim the primary reason they fled is because Arab leaders asked them to (0 evidence of this), when theres very real and documented evidence of Arab towns being depopulated at gunpoint by Lehi/Irgun/Haganah prior to Israel declaring independence in 1948 (Deir Yassin, Jaffa, Haifa as examples). 

 

You also seem to hold those Palestinian civilians to a completely different standard than Israeli civilians. We can both agree that Israeli civilians should never be targeted, regardless of what crimes their governments commit. The Israeli government building settlements and bulldozing Arab homes doesn't take away from Israeli civilians rights to their own homes and safety in other parts of the country. So even if you're right that Palestinian civilians fled because they were told by Arab leaders, why does that make them responsible for the actions of the other Arab countries? Should their rights as civilians still not have been protected, just like the Balfour declaration demanded?

 

You also say "80 years later theyre asking for land back". Well they (and the UN) have called for their right to return from day 1 of the 1948 war ending. This isn't something that is just conveniently popping up now as an excuse to bully Israel. The reason I asked you the question about which compromise was fair, is that in ALL negotiations in recent history, the Palestinians have been willing to compromise as long as some right of return was acknowledged. 

 

Please also draw a distinction between "stealing land" and removing the native population from a piece of land. These are two separate things. In 1948, it was ethnic cleansing of many towns and cities. In 1967 it was stealing land. The reason I say this is you are treating them interchangeably. The process of removing the arab population from an ever increasing amount of illegally occupied land is the problem, and its being done intentionally to prevent the creation of a Palestinian state. When you look at a map and see the areas where settlements are being built, do you not see that pattern? 

 

regarding the atrocities in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq, Yemen etc there are major differences between the civil wars vs the open persecution of minorities (like the Kurds) vs proxy conflicts etc. I think its safe to say that Iran is several orders of magnitude worse than any Israeli government since the formation of Israel. But we can go tit for tat all day long with whataboutism. Israel is a lightning rod unlike other countries at this moment because it's committed crimes against a population its essentially held hostage for 80 years, has refused to make any real attempt to address the injustice it inflicted against them, and that continues to this day, while being supported by our own governments. You named a whole bunch of civil wars which are incredibly tragic yes, but in several of those conflicts you named (Sudan, Yemen as examples), its civilians as victims caught in the crossfire between two warring factions. Not a civilian population being intentionally targeted. Whenever a civilian population is intentionally targeted, we see a similar response that the world has had to Israel, but especially when our own governments are complicit. These protests have nothing to do with Israel being Jewish, theyre about the fact that our government has supported Israel unconditionally despite obvious and open crimes against the Palestinians. See examples in history: Civil Rights protests in the 1950s, Vietnam protests in the 1960s, LGBTQ rights protests in the 1970s, Gun violence protests in the 2000s, Occupy wall street, BLM, just to name a few. People tend to get really upset when their governments openly support ongoing injustice, it gets them a whole lot more fired up than other things like wars that happened in the past or civil wars that they dont have anything to do with. 

 

I think its insane to boil that down to "muhh everyones anti semetic". 

 

Edit: I guess I need to address all of the conflicts you mentioned or I'll keep getting accused of anti semitism.

 

 Saddams regime, the Ayatollahs in Iran, Assad, Bin Salman, several Turkish regimes, have all done horrible things and they all deserve(d) to hang for their crimes. I would hope that any endorsement of these criminals by western countries would be met with protests and resistance on at least the same level as those leveled against Israeli treatment of Palestinians. I am still bewildered that we give the US government a free pass for its support of the saudi royal family. Fortunately, our governments stand opposed to many of those criminals, including the ayatollahs, assad, hezbollah, and others. 

 

 

 

Edited May 6 by HarbularyBattery

[Ilunga]

2 hours ago, RomanPer said:

 

He won’t believe you, in his world it’s all Jews fault.

 

Yeah that's why I continually state, that it's a circle of hatred that both sides contribute to.

 

When are you going to address my question in regards to Israel annexing Palestinian land, and why that is any different from Russia annexing Ukrainian land ? 

 

 

 

 

 

[HarbularyBattery]

5 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Yeah that's why I continually state, that it's a circle of hatred that both sides contribute to.

 

When are you going to address my question in regards to Israel annexing Palestinian land, and why that is any different from Russia annexing Ukrainian land ? 

 

 

 

 

 

awesome, i get accused of anti semitism because i would have the temerity to say Israel has done some bad things and should right some of its wrongs. 

 

i have that poster blocked, but i had to read the comment anyway. wish there was a way to ignore quoted replies too. 

[Ilunga]

11 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

awesome, i get accused of anti semitism because i would have the temerity to say Israel has done some bad things and should right some of its wrongs. 

 

i have that poster blocked, but i had to read the comment anyway. wish there was a way to ignore quoted replies too. 

 

Roman was born in Ukraine.

 

He, and rightfully so, like all of us, condemn Russia's annexation of Ukrainian land.

 

He is also Jewish.

Yet he sees no problem with Israel annexing Palestinian land.

 

The word for that attitude is hypocrisy.

[HarbularyBattery]

2 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Roman was born in Ukraine.

 

He, and rightfully so, like all of us, condemn Russia's annexation of Ukrainian land.

 

He is also Jewish.

Yet he sees no problem with Israel annexing Palestinian land.

 

The word for that attitude is hypocrisy.

 

well at least theres something that i can agree with him on - Putin deserves to hang for his crimes in Ukraine.

[Ilunga]

56 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

 

well at least theres something that i can agree with him on - Putin deserves to hang for his crimes in Ukraine.

 

Yes, I know we all would like to see that happen.

[Canuck Surfer]

So I have stood up for the right to protest. Many are miseducated about what they are protesting for?  I think what is happening at ASU is wrong.

 

But it is a private business; legally I am both disappointed, not surprised. Link won't embed, but Arizona State Uni students who protested both were arrested, and suspended by the school.  Arrested has one implication. Suspended means some lose a year of school, some simply won't graduate.  Tough lesson I would prefer did not happen.

 

https://youtu.be/fVUCTANFzZk

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, Ilunga said:

 

Roman was born in Ukraine.

 

He, and rightfully so, like all of us, condemn Russia's annexation of Ukrainian land.

 

He is also Jewish.

Yet he sees no problem with Israel annexing Palestinian land.

 

The word for that attitude is hypocrisy.

 

I have seen Roman post that 'most' Israeli citizens do not want to be occupying Gaza. 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

You also say "80 years later theyre asking for land back". Well they (and the UN) have called for their right to return from day 1 of the 1948 war ending.

 

This is not true. In principal yes, but not in practice. Practice specifically by the groups posturing to return.

 

Israel was created as a nation by the work of the UN.  The issues are complex.  However, my OPINION, nothing more, is Palestinians also ended up being represented by, here is that word again, complex groups.  The UN and Britain also helped establish Jordan, Syria, Iraq, add France, include Lebanon. These particular groups did not negotiate control over the area's that became Israel.  What I read is the US President at the time favored a one state nation, with Arab & Jewish provinces. This was rejected by Palestinians and Israeli's. The UN & England favored a 2 state solution; accepted before and after announcements regarding statehood by the Jewish, offering more than 50% of what is now Israel to 'this' group of Palestinians. Which was rejected, and Palestinians joined with other Arab groups and attacked Israel.

 

Its my opinion other Arab groups got what they wanted; perhaps sweetheart deals to rule Jordan & Iraq as Kingdoms? Syria was created, the Saudi Kingdom. These Palestinians got screwed. It did not help that they allied with these groups, who misrepresented them, tried to forcibly remove the Jews.

 

Should they want to return; acknowledging the existence of a Jewish state would be a good start.  Stop firing missiles from rooftops, blowing up tourist busses & taking hostages. Ask for a place at the table; one state or two. 

 

Blame won't get you peace if you are Palestinian Harbulary. Or just a supporter.  Concessions, and working together.

 

Quit asking for everything!

 

[Canuck Surfer]

3 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

regarding the atrocities in Iran, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Iraq, Yemen etc there are major differences between the civil wars vs the open persecution of minorities (like the Kurds) vs proxy conflicts etc. 

 

I imagine you are not Kurdish?

 

Gassing 60,000 Kurds in a day is amongst the worst atrocities since world war II. 5,000,000 Kurds kicked off their land in Turkey is more significant than what happened in much less diverse circumstances in Palestine in 1948.  It just happened under less scrutiny, for whatever reasons. And its still happening. Ethnic cleansing by Islamic majority & minority (militarily ruled) states, seems almost commonplace. It does not seem to shirk a Muslim asking another culture, say Jews, to leave when they want land.  

 

What happens in these states is open persecution.  Hamas, for example, demands absolute control & population compliance. So does Iran, the Houthi's, ISIS, ISIL, al Qaeda. 

 

Idealism is not very even keeled in the world right now. 

[Ilunga]

7 minutes ago, Canuck Surfer said:

 

I have seen Roman post that 'most' Israeli citizens do not want to be occupying Gaza. 

 

Isreal is not annexing land in Gaza brother.

 

Israel has been annexing land in the west bank and wants to a annex more.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52756427

 

 

This is the latest Israeli land illegal land grab in the west bank just over a month ago. 

 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240326-israel-s-largest-land-seizure-since-oslo-accords-deals-fresh-blow-to-palestinian-statehood

 

And in 1967, Isreal illegally annexed east Jerusalem.

 

Isreali human rights organisation.

 

https://www.btselem.org/topic/jerusalem

 

" Immediately after occupying the area in 1967, Israel unlawfully annexed thousands of hectares in and around est Jerusalem. Ever since, it has instigated policies designed to drive Palestinians out of the city and to create a demographic and geographic reality that would frustrate any challenge to Israeli sovereignty there. The policies, which disrupt every aspect of life, include isolating east Jerusalem from the west bank and deliberate underdevelopment and under servicing, that result in overcrowding, of poverty and sub standard infrastructure. " 

 

Isreal has/is doing what Russia did in Ukraine, annexed land.

 

It's a simple question to answer.

 

What's the difference between Russia annexing Ukrainian land, compared to Isreal annexing Palestinian land.  

 

And why this is relevant, is that anyone who supports an independent Palestinian state, knows that this current includes East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

38 minutes ago, Ilunga said:

 

Isreal is not annexing land in Gaza brother.

 

Israel has been annexing land in the west bank and wants to a annex more.

 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-52756427

 

 

This is the latest Israeli land illegal land grab in the west bank just over a month ago. 

 

 

https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240326-israel-s-largest-land-seizure-since-oslo-accords-deals-fresh-blow-to-palestinian-statehood

 

And in 1967, Isreal illegally annexed east Jerusalem.

 

Isreali human rights organisation.

 

https://www.btselem.org/topic/jerusalem

 

" Immediately after occupying the area in 1967, Israel unlawfully annexed thousands of hectares in and around est Jerusalem. Ever since, it has instigated policies designed to drive Palestinians out of the city and to create a demographic and geographic reality that would frustrate any challenge to Israeli sovereignty there. The policies, which disrupt every aspect of life, include isolating east Jerusalem from the west bank and deliberate underdevelopment and under servicing, that result in overcrowding, of poverty and sub standard infrastructure. " 

 

Isreal has/is doing what Russia did in Ukraine, annexed land.

 

It's a simple question to answer.

 

What's the difference between Russia annexing Ukrainian land, compared to Isreal annexing Palestinian land.  

 

And why this is relevant, is that anyone who supports an independent Palestinian state, knows that this current includes East Jerusalem, the West Bank and Gaza.

 

 

 

It is simple in the West Bank.  

 

Seizure, even purchasing of land, perhaps at low value, after harassment of land owners is an absolute & ongoing concern. There is plenty of illegal Israeli activity.

 

 

[Canuck Surfer]

8 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

Edit: I guess I need to address all of the conflicts you mentioned or I'll keep getting accused of anti semitism.

 

No, not what I am looking for anyway. Although it is both rampant. More powerfully, guilt tripping large sections of social media movements to support one side. Many with good intentions, ignorant to larger issues. That said, there is less than 1 Jew for every 100 Muslims in the world. Popular opinion supporting Palestine will also have social, religious & an ethnic component.

 

I don't like hard line, profit driven ultra conservative Western govt's profiting in 2knd and 3rd world countries by dominating militarily, politically. This would include Netanyahu, George Bush's, Trump although his foreign policy is whacked. I have a bigger problem, one harder to solve, with feudal like warlords, in this case Islamic militants ruling so many Middle Eastern & African nations. Its not leftist sh!t.

 

I really don't like militants who overthrow courts, democratically elected govt.'s, police to rule territories, whole countries by fear and intimidation. They say its for their tribal / ethnic benefit. 'For the Palestinian,' or Syrian (example) benefit. I don't buy that. These militants, like cartels in Mexico or Venezuela, take payola at every level of the street. Have the police & judicial system both on payola? Plus threat of death instructions to do as told. Which becomes complicated to remove without external peacekeeping.

 

Peacekeeping, not George Bush or Bibi invading. Their supporters companies profiting.

 

I believe those that want peace for Palestine should want militants removed. I believe if you wish for peace for Israel, call to throw out Netanyahu.  Each should be policing their own people from abusing their neighbors. When both sides are doing it; the solution is each to start and protecting their neighbor. Blame of one side, when there is plenty of blame on each, solves little.

 

 

 

 

[Gurn]

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/ecocide-israels-systematic-destruction-of-palestinian-agriculture-revealed/3210422

"

A British-based investigation group has unveiled the systematic targeting and destruction of orchards and greenhouses by Israeli forces in the Gaza Strip since last October, when the current conflict in Gaza began, undermining Gazan Palestinians’ ability to feed and provide for themselves.

Analysis by Forensic Architecture, a multidisciplinary research group based at Goldsmiths, University of London, identified more than 2,000 agricultural sites, including farms and greenhouses, that have been deliberately destroyed, and often replaced with Israeli military earthworks.

The destruction, particularly intense in northern Gaza, has led to the devastation of nearly one-third of the region's greenhouses and approximately 40% of agricultural land previously used for food production.

The investigation suggests that the destruction is a deliberate act of ecocide exacerbating the ongoing catastrophic famine in Gaza, part of a wider pattern of depriving Palestinians of critical resources for survival.

"Since 2014, Palestinian farmers along Gaza’s perimeter have seen their crops sprayed by airborne herbicides and regularly bulldozed, and have themselves faced sniper fire by the Israeli occupation forces. Along that engineered ‘border,’ sophisticated systems of fences and surveillance reinforce a military buffer zone," according to a statement from Forensic Architecture marking March 30, Land Day, a day when Palestinians protest and plant olive trees to reaffirm their connection to the land.

-----------------------

mal

[Bob Long]

37 minutes ago, Gurn said:

https://www.aa.com.tr/en/middle-east/ecocide-israels-systematic-destruction-of-palestinian-agriculture-revealed/3210422

"

A British-based investigation group has unveiled the systematic targeting and destruction of orchards and greenhouses by Israeli forces in the Gaza Strip since last October, when the current conflict in Gaza began, undermining Gazan Palestinians’ ability to feed and provide for themselves.

Analysis by Forensic Architecture, a multidisciplinary research group based at Goldsmiths, University of London, identified more than 2,000 agricultural sites, including farms and greenhouses, that have been deliberately destroyed, and often replaced with Israeli military earthworks.

The destruction, particularly intense in northern Gaza, has led to the devastation of nearly one-third of the region's greenhouses and approximately 40% of agricultural land previously used for food production.

The investigation suggests that the destruction is a deliberate act of ecocide exacerbating the ongoing catastrophic famine in Gaza, part of a wider pattern of depriving Palestinians of critical resources for survival.

"Since 2014, Palestinian farmers along Gaza’s perimeter have seen their crops sprayed by airborne herbicides and regularly bulldozed, and have themselves faced sniper fire by the Israeli occupation forces. Along that engineered ‘border,’ sophisticated systems of fences and surveillance reinforce a military buffer zone," according to a statement from Forensic Architecture marking March 30, Land Day, a day when Palestinians protest and plant olive trees to reaffirm their connection to the land.

-----------------------

mal

 

are we inventing "cides" now?

[Gurn]

18 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

are we inventing "cides" now?

Not "now"- it's been going on for quite some time.

[Bob Long]

16 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Not "now"- it's been going on for quite some time.

 

I just learned about ecocide. Just wondering what other ones to expect.

[RomanPer]

6 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

I just learned about ecocide. Just wondering what other ones to expect.

 

When Israel left Gaza in 2005, it left behind booming agricultural businesses, including one of the world's largest producers of flowers (they were exporting tulips to event to Holland). Guess what happened with all those greenhouses and other agricultural facilities after the withdrawal? You guessed it, they were immediately destroyed by the new regime. But now we have to believe half truth from some British university without clear understanding of funding sources for this "study"