[Article] A trade to ‘reward’ the Canucks would be the wrong takeaway from their early success

[RWJC]

A trade to ‘reward’ the Canucks would be the wrong takeaway from their early success

 

 

 

The Vancouver Canucks closed out the month of October 2023 with a 5-2 Halloween victory over the Nashville Predators, improving their early-season record to 6-2-1. That makes for the best start this franchise has had in at least two decades. It’s also pushed the Canucks all the way up to second place in the Western Conference and drawn plenty of attention from all corners of he league.

Including what feels like the wrong sort of attention.

 

Earlier this week, Rick Dhaliwal broke news that the Canucks were still “working the phones” in an attempt to make a major trade.

 

As Dhaliwal put it:

“When you talked about the Seahawks, you nailed it. They are 5-2, the Seahawks, and they just added an All-Star all-pro defensive lineman and their coach said ‘we’re rewarding these guys’. You nailed it, that’s what the Canucks management is doing right now. They believe in this team. I’m hearing the Canucks would like to add, they’re trying to get better, it’s not easy in a capped out NHL. I’m not saying anything’s imminent, but I am saying they are working the phones big time. A 5-2-1 start, if you can make some moves right now to improve the roster, why not? You know what, management is obviously pretty impressed with his 5-2-1 start. I’ll just leave it at this. They’re working the phones.”

 

The working of phones is nothing new. The Canucks have been looking to deal since the outset of the 2023 offseason, and even after they closed out a few minor trades, it sure didn’t seem like they were finished.
 

But the reasoning of making a trade to “reward” the team after a red-hot October is, obviously, a new factor. One that can’t help but feel like the exact wrong takeaway for management to be pulling from the Canucks’ early success.

 

No one would argue that the Canucks aren’t playing well. There’s been nothing noticeably “lucky” or anomalous about their performance thus far, and they really do appear to be earning all these points. At the very least, it’s hard not to look at this current version of the Canucks and see them as far more of a contender than most had them pegged coming into the season.

 

But contenders to do what?

Make the playoffs? Sure. Oddsmakers currently have the Canucks with a 90+% chance of appearing in the postseason, and they’re certainly well on their way.

 

But contending for something more than that? It’s much more difficult to say whether or not the Canucks are anywhere near there yet. That’s the point at which a team might typically make a big trade to “put them over the top,” sacrificing future assets for more certainty in the now. To feel as though the Canucks are ready for such a move should require a lot more faith in the team than is currently possible. A big trade now to “reward” the team sends the message that they’re almost there, contention-wise.

 

And that’s the wrong message to be sending right now.

 

The Canucks haven’t looked this good in some time, it’s true. But they do also have a recent and frequent history of going on some rather toasty streaks that haven’t exactly translated into long-term success.

 

There was the now-infamous Bubble Run of 2020.

 

There was the Boudreau Bump.

 

Now, from last season into this one, they’re in the midst of the Tocchet Turnaround.

 

This one seems more genuine. More legitimate. Definitely more sustainable. But until that sustainability turns into “sustained,” the message that management should be sending right now is “Good start so far; let’s see if you can keep it up this time.”

Not “You did it! Have a reward.”

It’s as wrongheaded as it is unnecessary.

 

For all the success the Canucks have had through October, they’re doing it with the players that they already have on hand. And as much individual success as has already been wrought from this roster, there’s still some considerable improvement to be made from within.

 

Several players are off to personal ice-cold starts. The likes of Anthony Beauvillier, Conor Garland, and Pius Suter should all start putting up more points soon enough. Ilya Mikheyev is just warming up again after several months off hockey.

 

The team has shown some concerns about its center depth, but there it’s important to remember that key free agent Teddy Blueger, pencilled in as the 3C by some, has yet to play a single game. Blueger’s imminent return to the lineup should be enough reward for the team at this point, and the perfect modest addition to a set of players that is otherwise rolling.

Anything bigger runs the risk of rocking the boat.

 

Speaking of injuries, that’s yet another reason to avoid pushing for any sort of blockbuster in this exact moment. The 2023/24 Canucks have had one of the healthiest starts in recent franchise memory. That will change. Before the Canucks commit to making major additions to this current iteration of the team, shouldn’t they see how they handle the inevitable adversity?

 

All of which pales in comparison to the real reason why “working the phones” and trying to force a deal through is a bad idea right now: trading is hard.

And especially so for a team like the Vancouver Canucks. Cap space put a damper on league transactions this offseason, and although a few players have gone on LTIR since, it’s not as though an abundance of space has been opened up around the NHL.
 

Things are still tight, and the Canucks have literally no cap space of their own to maneuver with. That means that any trade they make will have to be cash in, cash out. Which makes it excessively tricky to make any sort of genuine additions to the roster without first subtracting.

 

Which, again, is far easier said than done. The Canucks are essentially faced with a choice of dealing away one of their more useful players — those currently contributing to the success that the team wants to reward — or paying exorbitant prices to dump their less-useful players, on top of whatever it costs them to make their additions in the first place.

Which one has to assume would come at a high cost already.

 

Looking at the setup the Canucks have, it’s not hard to see what any significant “reward” to the team would have to be: it’s another right-handed defender. That’s a position that just happens to be the rarest and most valuable commodity in the sport of hockey.

 

In other words, the Canucks are looking to make a trade in which they are fighting against cap space, roster size, and the leaguewide market for RHDs.

 

That’s the sort of trade that should only be made when the opportunity truly arises, as it seems to have prior to the Filip Hronek deal. It’s not the sort of trade that should ever be “pushed” for or “worked.”

Especially not based on any sort of nine-game sample size…

 

Stephan Roget

 

link to rest of article:

https://canucksarmy.com/news/trade-reward-canucks-wrong-takeaway-early-success

 

[Guntrix]

I disagree about sitting pat and not moving players just because of a good start, but the players I would've liked to see moved (Beauvillier, Garland) are off to bad starts, so it's still going to be difficult to move them. Maybe Myers? He's not looking too bad this year.

[Dizzle]

I mean... while I lean towards the, 'don't do anything rash' side of things... I think someone may have just needed to write an article 

[Shekky]

If they can improve the defence and add some scoring depth I'm all for it but at what cost will this happen I know a dman is needed more then anything Myers has been good at times but terrible most of the time.

[PunjabiCanucks23]

Lets say we can get rid of Myers, Garland, Beauvillier

 

We lose a few goals/ handful of points and save 14M approx.

 

Money we can use to get picks back , $ to use on Bear, better bottom D, a 2nd pairing dman 

[Metal Face Doom]

You make moves to make the team better.  Simple.  Has nothing to do with reward.

[Coconuts]

GM's are always making calls, that ain't exactly news. We've probably been trying to move someone since the summer, doesn't mean it'll happen. But hey, maybe injuries open up a spot for Garland somewhere else, doubt Myers goes anywhere and Beau has been underwhelming. 

 

As for additions, absolutely inquire, that's their job. But I think it's waaaaaaaaay too early in the season to be doing anything big. Lot could change between now and February. 

[cripplereh]

23 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

GM's are always making calls, that ain't exactly news. We've probably been trying to move someone since the summer, doesn't mean it'll happen. But hey, maybe injuries open up a spot for Garland somewhere else, doubt Myers goes anywhere and Beau has been underwhelming. 

 

As for additions, absolutely inquire, that's their job. But I think it's waaaaaaaaay too early in the season to be doing anything big. Lot could change between now and February. 

Actually the best bet for a player to fit inus by Xmas break.It is rare that from TDL that a player gets chemistry with a new team and unless they played there before.

 

So a trade now would be more valuable to the team then waiting last minute.

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, cripplereh said:

Actually the best bet for a player to fit inus by Xmas break.It is rare that from TDL that a player gets chemistry with a new team and unless they played there before.

 

So a trade now would be more valuable to the team then waiting last minute.

 

Could be a big ask considering who the Canucks are probably looking to move out. And like I said, it's verrry early and we've been remarkably healthy thus far. 

 

They should always be looking to improve the team, that's why management get paid and it's why GM's are likely checking in with each other daily. But to do it to reward a nine game stretch at the beginning of the season? Yeah, I dunno about that one. 

Edited November 2, 2023 by Coconuts

[LillStrimma]

Much ado about nothing.

 

This is more about causing disrupt in a team that tries to gel properly.

 

Is it the Oilers that paid a journo or what? 

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, PunjabiCanucks23 said:

Lets say we can get rid of Myers, Garland, Beauvillier

 

We lose a few goals/ handful of points and save 14M approx.

 

Money we can use to get picks back , $ to use on Bear, better bottom D, a 2nd pairing dman 

 

Agree with the OP, any cap going out, will be coming back in.  Also would rather not pay futures to save a little cap space to add say Bear.  Is Adding Bear and trading Beau 50% retained and our second worth it? 

 

As for Garland, just wait until next season.   A year off his deal, and again we shouldn't have to pay to get rid of a roster player. 

 

Only deals I'd consider, would be adding another top four/top pairing D like the Hronek trade.  And that's going to cost us our first, second and whatever it costs to trade Beau as well.    But it's what we need to put us over the top.    
 

Next year, this off season ... or this season (my preference),  a trade like this needs to happen.   It's addition without subtraction.   24-25 year old on a decent RFA deal that will grow with the team.   Won't be cheap.   And when it comes it will come.    Willander is likely 4 years away, best case, from solid top four NHL games.   All of QHs and Demko's deal.   We can maybe hope for sooner ... Hronek isn't enough.    Kuzmneko trade isn't a bad way to do that either.   Garland or Beau can play with EP. 

 

Think a JT Miller trade, but for our defence. 

 

Edited November 2, 2023 by IBatch

[tas]

writing from the perspective of "I know better" and using phrases like "the Canucks should ..." is a telltale sign that what you're reading isn't journalism, it's some moron's opinion. 

[LillStrimma]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

 

Agree with the OP, any cap going out, will be coming back in.  Also would rather not pay futures to save a little cap space to add say Bear.  Is Adding Bear and trading Beau 50% retained and our second worth it? 

 

As for Garland, just wait until next season.   A year off his deal, and again we shouldn't have to pay to get rid of a roster player. 

 

Only deals I'd consider, would be adding another top four D like the Hronek trade.  And that's going to cost us our first, second and whatever it costs to trade Beau as well.    But it's what we need to put us over the top.    
 

Next year, this off season ... or this season (my preference),  a trade like this needs to happen.   It's addition without subtraction.   24-25 year old on a decent RFA deal that will grow with the team.   Won't be cheap.   And when it comes it will come.    Willander is likely 4 years away, best case, from solid top four NHL games.   All of QHs and Demko's deal.   We can maybe hope for sooner ... Hronek isn't enough.    Kuzmneko trade isn't a bad way to do that either. 

What do you think about Rasmus Andersson on second line with Soucy.

Then we have the same first and second punch on D as we have on C.

 

Obviously Myers go to them and our first and second.

The Flames are screwed till season30/31 so they just waste The years with Rasmus.

 

We get three seasons cost controlled.

[stawns]

11 hours ago, Guntrix said:

I disagree about sitting pat and not moving players just because of a good start, but the players I would've liked to see moved (Beauvillier, Garland) are off to bad starts, so it's still going to be difficult to move them. Maybe Myers? He's not looking too bad this year.

I agree about AB, but Garland is having a solid start to the season in a role many probably thought wasn't a fit for him. 

 

There's a lot more to the game than points

3 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

What do you think about Rasmus Andersson on second line with Soucy.

Then we have the same first and second punch on D as we have on C.

 

Obviously Myers go to them and our first and second.

The Flames are screwed till season30/31 so they just waste The years with Rasmus.

 

We get three seasons cost controlled.

No way they have the pieces to get Rasmus Andersson

Edited November 2, 2023 by stawns

[Hogs and Podz]

I'm finding it so fascinating within the local media sphere right now.  This is a case study right in front of us right now.  

 

So, yesterday I happened upon a 'sekares and price' episode... (Didn't press to view... Don't want to give them the 'hit').  Daniel Wager was on, talking about his new gig with the canucks.  Now, I've mentioned it before but sekeras and price, drance, spittin chicklets all major critics of the team over the past number of years.... Have all started changing their tune.  Softening their stance and changing their focus to the positive changes within the organization. 

 

The interview was very fluffy, Subclass and Pariah's praising Faber for his ascension through the ranks. 

Yet there they are.... Getting peanut hits on their youtube channel.  They were dumped by tsn... Thought they were invincible... Say whatever GOT THEM HITS... Until they were left out in the cold.  It's been two years, and they now finally, after getting table scraps for hits since they came back... Decided that their... Beat them while they're down 'reporting' isn't as sustanable ad they once thought.  This market ultimately, though somewhat cynical for good reason, wants to be hopefully, even in the darkest if times.  We have needed positive stories to follow when the team clearly sucks. 

 

Faber decided to focus on the positives... Dove deep..  Wasn't easy because there wasn't a lot to report on that was positive.  But because of him, I know so much more about our prospects and our farm team.  Becuae of him, I didn't get to bummed when just wanting escape and find out how my favorite team is doing... All be it, baby nucks or prospects.

 

Don't get me wrong, I don't consider Faber a god, I'm not a fan boy.  Just giving props to a reporter that chose a differnet path or focus.  I needed that... Now it's easy to find positive articles on our team.

 

But still, and to my point, negativity seems to sell.  It creates a fervor of attention a 'spike' if you will.  But short lived.  It's like the quick fix, the empty carbs of 'reporting'.  Enquirer level smut. 

 

Whereas the more thought out, laying out, describing in detail and displaying a number of perspectives and coming to a conclusion based on that presentation... Is good writing. 

 

As much as I disliked Botchford, he was a fan first, but was frustrated with the management and product on the ice.  What I respected with him, was he at least, looked at all sides of the argument and did his best... Put lots of thought and effort into what he chose to write....

 

To my point...

 

Botchford and Faber were true canuck fans before they became reporters.  Underneath it all, they love(d) this team.  Even when critical, they're intent was not vindictive or malicious in nature. 

 

These other guys... Yah they just want hits, quick fix, boost there numbers... Just a business to them.  They don't care about this team... They just want attention, any attention, to satisfy their inflated egos and get a paycheck.  

 

Good on Faber for being reqarded for good research and reporting for the past number of years.  He's showing the rest of the 'reporters' that their 'stick' is old and they're left holding their bag of dogshit all to themselves. 

 

I feel vindication!!!!

Thanks for reading to my rant lol!

Edited November 2, 2023 by Hogs and Podz

[spook007]

4 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

What do you think about Rasmus Andersson on second line with Soucy.

Then we have the same first and second punch on D as we have on C.

 

Obviously Myers go to them and our first and second.

The Flames are screwed till season30/31 so they just waste The years with Rasmus.

 

We get three seasons cost controlled.

He is really gonna cost... if Flames have to rebuild, he'd be one of the few, that would fit into a rebuild... Think the costs would be too much... they'd ask for a 1st + one if not both of Willander and Lekkerimaki... don't want to let go of these two. 

[spook007]

5 hours ago, IBatch said:

 

Agree with the OP, any cap going out, will be coming back in.  Also would rather not pay futures to save a little cap space to add say Bear.  Is Adding Bear and trading Beau 50% retained and our second worth it? 

 

As for Garland, just wait until next season.   A year off his deal, and again we shouldn't have to pay to get rid of a roster player. 

 

Only deals I'd consider, would be adding another top four/top pairing D like the Hronek trade.  And that's going to cost us our first, second and whatever it costs to trade Beau as well.    But it's what we need to put us over the top.    
 

Next year, this off season ... or this season (my preference),  a trade like this needs to happen.   It's addition without subtraction.   24-25 year old on a decent RFA deal that will grow with the team.   Won't be cheap.   And when it comes it will come.    Willander is likely 4 years away, best case, from solid top four NHL games.   All of QHs and Demko's deal.   We can maybe hope for sooner ... Hronek isn't enough.    Kuzmneko trade isn't a bad way to do that either.   Garland or Beau can play with EP. 

 

Think a JT Miller trade, but for our defence. 

 

I've been having those kinda thoughts as well.... They've tried to off load Beau, Garland and Brock before with no takers. 
Beau will cost to move, Garland may bring something back, but with Brock having scored a few goals and points, maybe there could be some interest now? Or Kuz?...

If they want to improve their D in a meaningful way, they need cap space. Other teams will be wanting the moon to take Beau or Garland of our hand in a trade for a top 4 RHD, so they may try to create cap space, by off loading Kuz or Brock as part of a trade or maybe a three way trade?

Not that I want rid of either, but it looks a bit like you gotta give to get....

Lekkerimaki may be able to play on Millers wing next season, although that would likely be wishful thinking. 

[LillStrimma]

39 minutes ago, spook007 said:

He is really gonna cost... if Flames have to rebuild, he'd be one of the few, that would fit into a rebuild... Think the costs would be too much... they'd ask for a 1st + one if not both of Willander and Lekkerimaki... don't want to let go of these two. 

Agree, but he is the right type for us. 
Aggressive and can take a lot of minutes.

Allvin can at least send every pick from 2024. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

I wouldn't jump to anything just yet but trades take a while to brew and to be honest if we're still in the same position now at the 20-40 game mark, I'd really consider pulling the trigger. Let Allvin work the phones, get some things in place, and if at Christmas time we're still top-5 (or even top-10) in the league, then why not make a bit of a push?

 

We can see our small prime window open now. Hughes is the best defenceman in the league. Petey the best center (right now). Demko is a top-5 goalie. Sure, we sucked last year but if we're a top-5 team right now, these are the teams who make moves to be a contender come playoff time.

 

The 9 game mark is obviously too soon to make moves like that but we've got to do the work now to get things in place so if we are still in that top region of the standings in another couple of months, pull the trigger.

 

If we drop off to a wild card spot then we might has well not do anything crazy.

[Guntrix]

3 hours ago, stawns said:

I agree about AB, but Garland is having a solid start to the season in a role many probably thought wasn't a fit for him. 

 

There's a lot more to the game than points

No way they have the pieces to get Rasmus Andersson

Is Garland’s current role worth his $4,950,000 cap hit? I wouldn’t say so. 
 

In a cap world, value for money is what matters most. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

2 hours ago, spook007 said:

He is really gonna cost... if Flames have to rebuild, he'd be one of the few, that would fit into a rebuild... Think the costs would be too much... they'd ask for a 1st + one if not both of Willander and Lekkerimaki... don't want to let go of these two. 

 

Completely agree with this.  

 

Some posters on here seem to be crazy horny about wanting to see the Canucks going for it this year and blowing up the farm in the process (or tearing off the trousers with their teeth so to speak).    

 

I'm excited as the next guy over what we've done so far but slow and steady is the name of the game.   Alvin has done a pretty good job of replenishing the cupboards, and we've got guys like Raty, Podkolzin, Lekkerimaki, and Willander in the system waiting in the wings.  It's not inconceivable at all to believe that all three of the aforementioned forwards could step into our line up next season on ELC's........and that would be a huge advantage obviously.

 

So, what would I like to see?

 

1) Canucks make the 1st or 2nd round this year.

2) Pettersson and Hronek sign long term deals with us in the Summer.  

3) Kuzmenko signs a long term deal with us when his contract expires

4) Hughes signs a long term deal with us when his contract expires

5) Hoglander, Podkolzin, Willander, Raty, and Lekkerimaki all become long term core players for us.  

6) Three years from now as Miller leaves his peak, he becomes a role player for us and continues to be a leader.  

7) Silovs develops and successfully takes over the reigns when Demko becomes a UFA (or, we sign Demko to a 4 year deal).   

 

-The Canucks continuously and progressively become more competitive over these next few seasons.

-We are able to retain our core players

-We slowly and progressively replace sub-par contracts (i.e. Myers) with more cost-effective players.    

 

Even if the Canucks 'blow up the farm' and go for it this season, we aren't going to be better than Colorado, Vegas, and Tampa Bay.   

 

So, ultimately responding to your post, and the spirit of this thread, I wouldn't trade promising young assets for 'win now' players from the Flames.  If it makes financial sense in the off-season, take a run at Chris Tanev.  No need to spend an arm and a leg for Rasmus Andersson or McKenzie Weeger.  

Edited November 2, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Sativika]

To me it's a bit too early to be making a transaction of the magnitude required to bring in relevant, needle moving players. RD? Of course. Maybe more impactful 3rd/4th liner. 

 

I dunno. I saw this on FB earlier today.....

 

https://www.canucksdaily.com/TRADE-PROPOSAL-Trade-proposal-emerges-sending-Conor-Garland-to-the-St-Louis-Blues-in-six-assets-deal-293558

 

And I saw another one in FB involving a 3 team scenario. Though I can't find it right now.

 

At this point it's gonna take trades of this ilk to bring back players of significance. Any of the bottom six currently playing, and perhaps Myers and depth guys are all we can offer. There's always prospects and draft picks, but we went that route. However it could very well be what's required to ,"move the needle!"

 

I say we hold off till the second half of the regular season and see where we are. At least hold off till the end of November or mid December.

I dunno. What do y'all think??!?!?!!???

 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Guntrix said:

Is Garland’s current role worth his $4,950,000 cap hit? I wouldn’t say so. 
 

In a cap world, value for money is what matters most. 

no, on ice play still matters most, though cap is obviously incredibly important.  Garland is playing important minutes in important situations and, obviously, has the trust of the coaching staff as one of the guys they want out there in the waning minutes of close games.  To me, that's what matters

Edited November 2, 2023 by stawns

[spook007]

2 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

Agree, but he is the right type for us. 
Aggressive and can take a lot of minutes.

Allvin can at least send every pick from 2024. 

He would be perfect, but I doubt they can find enough to send the other way to facilitate a trade. Andersson would be great.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I wouldn't jump to anything just yet but trades take a while to brew and to be honest if we're still in the same position now at the 20-40 game mark, I'd really consider pulling the trigger. Let Allvin work the phones, get some things in place, and if at Christmas time we're still top-5 (or even top-10) in the league, then why not make a bit of a push?

 

We can see our small prime window open now. Hughes is the best defenceman in the league. Petey the best center (right now). Demko is a top-5 goalie. Sure, we sucked last year but if we're a top-5 team right now, these are the teams who make moves to be a contender come playoff time.

 

The 9 game mark is obviously too soon to make moves like that but we've got to do the work now to get things in place so if we are still in that top region of the standings in another couple of months, pull the trigger.

 

If we drop off to a wild card spot then we might has well not do anything crazy.

Agree... and yet...

 

The one thing speaking for looking trade partners just now, are teams, who expect to be in the playoffs next spring, and have had a poor start to the season. They may be looking for firepower, before it's too late.... god knows, we know how it feels to see the train vanishing in the distance, and playing catch up...

 

Maybe a team are prepared to give something valuable for a goal scorer right about now?