Non-gameday discussion: These two Canucks should be getting more ice time

[Miss Korea]

Those who know me are going to know who I'm talking about.  I'm curious to see if anyone is going to skip this entire post and immediately reply with who they think should be playing more.  TL;DR - Höglander and Garland.  But for now here are the players who I think should be getting a little less ice time...

 

 

I have no problems with Sam Lafferty on our bottom six.  He's a hard-nosed grinder who has provided a massive defensive boost to our bottom six and PK.  His has a versatile toolset which can be used in any situation or any position.  His ability to move up and down the lineup adds even more utility.  But... he is not an offensive driver.  I get what Tocchet is doing here - he replaced a struggling offensive winger (Kuzmenko) with a defensive grinder to both prove a point and to provide a radically different look to his top six.  But this can't be anything more than a temporary stint, right?

 

 

I've noticed Beauvillier has improved his overall game, and I'm not surprised Tocchet has given him a promotion to the second line.  Do I think this improves the second line?  Maybe not.  He puts a lot of pucks on net and has improved his defensive coverage, which is all good things.  But I also think there are other players who have put an even better effort and are more deserving of the opportunity.

 

 

Pizza boy has already been demoted to the fourth line, but I think he is going to settle in just fine.  Like Lafferty, he is also a hard-nosed defensive grinder whose work ethic and versatility earned him a promotion to Miller's checking line.  If anyone can't tell yet, I don't think any of these guys are poor performers.  They just have their roles to play and I think Di Giuseppe is best served on the 3rd/4th lines.

 

PLAYER #1: Nils Höglander

 

 

This one should have no objections here.  I simply don't get how Hogs can score every single game and not get rewarded with more icetime.  He should be playing top six minutes right now.  He is small but built like a truck and he clearly has the offensive ability to belong on a line with Petey or Millsy.  I don't get it.  He is averaging 13 seconds per game on the powerplay, and that makes no sense.  You can try to argue he isn't a great defender, but on the powerplay?  Hogs can cycle, he can shoot, and he can jam pucks in front of the net.  He is a great scorer and should absolutely feature on the second PP unit at the very least.

 

PLAYER #2: Conor Garland

 

 

Play this guy more, for Tocch's sake.  He is a possession maniac.  He makes some really slick passes that turn into high-danger scoring chances.  The reason he hasn't racked up the assists is because his teammates can't bury those chances.  His defending is exceptional, especially in the neutral zone.  The only concern with Garland is that he doesn't seem to gel well with any of our big forwards.  The man has a very unique playstyle and almost tries to play even smaller than he really is.  It works for him, but maybe it doesn't work well with others.  But at the same time, we all know he can get under his opponents' skin.  If anyone doubts me or Conor Garland, watch him next game and you'll notice he protects the puck exceptionally well and is always putting pressure on the opposing team, both offensively and defensively.  

 

So what does everyone else here think?  Maybe Rick Tocchet isn't a fan of smaller guys?  What will it take for Hogs and Garly to feature in our top six?

[IBatch]

Hogs provides the team with a chance to consider or make a trade (Kuzmenko, or well Hogs, Garland), if it makes sense.   

 

 

One thing about those WAR cards, what happens when the quality of competition goes way up though?   A little harder to get the nice blue boxes isn't it?  They become lighter blue or more pink.   Myers case in point.  It's really easy to do your role well, if your put in a position to succeed.     As for Lafferty?!  Guys on pace to score 20 goals and 40 points,  PK's well and is almost free.  Not unhappy with him at all, if they didn't disallow last games goal.   

 

Players go on streaks.    Hogs, is he on a streak right now, or legit breaking out?   Maybe worth the gamble and making a trade, he'd maybe  be going on Millers line, unless that trade is Kuzmenko.   We didn't sign Kuzmenko to play in the bottom six.    

 

As for Garland.    Brock and Mikheyev.   Which one would you demote?   

 

And now for the kicker.   IF the bottom six, is playing great and contributing (which of course it is,  some of the best production we've in decades) why would you mess with that?     

 

It's our defense that needs a boost.   Playing with some AHLers right now.   If anything you've pointed out we have some guys who we could trade now, that earlier we couldn't. 

 

Edit:  I do agree both Garland and Hogs are playing really well.    Not sure if it's time yet to mix it up.    We need a bottom six that can contribute.    They've been keeping us in games, and well last game we win that 9/10 times.   Bad luck there.   It's also bad luck, that our best D replacements, aren't healthy.     This is the seasons test.    I'm not opposed to moving both Hogs and Garland up either.    Who do you demote though?    PDG/Beau  for Hogs.    Or Kuzmenko.   Garland likely stays.   Although i've always been curious what he could do with EP,  in limited ice time, so far anyways, it hasn't worked out great.    Mikheyev works both in the top and bottom six for sure.  

Edited November 27, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

How about this:

 

Hogs Miller Brock 

Mikheyev EP Garland

Beau  Bluegar  Kuzmenko 

Joshua Lafferty  PGD

 

That's radical.     Maybe it boost's the top six.   Third line is ??? to say the least.    Also a lot of these guys shot left.   Mikheyev on his left side would allow Garland a spot.    This would allow everyone to shoot their natural side aside from PGD.     Lafferty deserves a shot at C, plus he's a righty.    Aman I guess doesn't have a spot, or Aman slots in and rotate Joshua and PGD in and out.   While we wait for Suter anyways. 

 

Either that or:

 

Garland (off-wing) Miller Brock 

Hogs EP Mikheyev (off-wing). 

 

Have fun creating a third line though. 

 

One other blender move:

 

?  (Beau likely) Miller Brock 

Hogs EP Garland 

 

Kuzmenko Bluegar Mikheyev.   That third line at least has teeth still.  

Edited November 27, 2023 by IBatch

[Miss Korea]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Hogs provides the team with a chance to consider or make a trade (Kuzmenko, or well Hogs, Garland), if it makes sense.   

 

One thing about those WAR cards, what happens when the quality of competition goes way up though?   A little harder to get the nice blue boxes isn't it?  They become lighter blue or more pink.   Myers case in point.  It's really easy to do your role well, if your put in a position to succeed.     As for Lafferty?!  Guys on pace to score 20 goals and 40 points,  PK's well and is almost free.  Not unhappy with him at all, if they didn't disallow last games goal.   

 

Players go on streaks.    Hogs, is he on a streak right now, or legit breaking out?   Maybe worth the gamble and making a trade, he'd maybe  be going on Millers line, unless that trade is Kuzmenko.   We didn't sign Kuzmenko to play in the bottom six.    

 

As for Garland.    Brock and Mikheyev.   Which one would you demote?   

 

And now for the kicker.   IF the bottom six, is playing great and contributing (which of course it is,  some of the best production we've in decades) why would you mess with that?     

 

It's our defense that needs a boost.   Playing with some AHLers right now.   If anything you've pointed out we have some guys who we could trade now, that earlier we couldn't. 

 

Edit:  I do agree both Garland and Hogs are playing really well.    Not sure if it's time yet to mix it up.    We need a bottom six that can contribute.    They've been keeping us in games, and well last game we win that 9/10 times.   Bad luck there.   It's also bad luck, that our best D replacements, aren't healthy.     This is the seasons test.    I'm not opposed to moving both Hogs and Garland up either.    Who do you demote though?    PDG/Beau  for Hogs.    Or Kuzmenko.   Garland likely stays.   Although i've always been curious what he could do with EP,  in limited ice time, so far anyways, it hasn't worked out great.    Mikheyev works both in the top and bottom six for sure.  

The bottom six was already tampered with when the Canucks demoted Di Giuseppe and scratched Kuzmenko.  And when Blueger timely replaced an injured Suter.  At this point, I'd just keep messing with things until we can string some consistent wins together again.

 

I think fans have seen enough individual and costly mistakes from Myers to realize that regardless of what situation he's put in, he will still make those bad plays and take some really stupid penalties.  He is a pure chaos giraffe - he'll make two good plays and three bad ones, all in the span of a 40 second shift.  Someone like Lafferty does put up excellent defensive numbers... and that's because he's an excellent defensive player.  He has some obvious finishing talent but he shouldn't ever be a permanent fixture in our top six.

 

On that same note, I think fans should be happy enough with Höglander that he should get the promotion to the 2nd line and not Beauvillier.  We didn't trade for Beauvillier so he could feature on our bottom six either.  Same goes for guys like Garland, Boeser, and Kuzmenko.  But we are so stacked with talent on the wings, this is where we've ended up.  You're damn right we need defencemen, and I'm hoping we offload Beauvillier, not Garland/Kuzmenko.  I think it's unrealistic we can get rid of both and move $8.5M in salary.

 

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

How about this:

 

Hogs Miller Brock 

Mikheyev EP Garland

Beau  Bluegar  Kuzmenko 

Joshua Lafferty  PGD

 

That's radical.     Maybe it boost's the top six.   Third line is ??? to say the least.    Also a lot of these guys shot left.   Mikheyev on his left side would allow Garland a spot.    This would allow everyone to shoot their natural side aside from PGD.     Lafferty deserves a shot at C, plus he's a righty.    Aman I guess doesn't have a spot, or Aman slots in and rotate Joshua and PGD in and out.   While we wait for Suter anyways. 

 

Either that or:

 

Garland (off-wing) Miller Brock 

Hogs EP Mikheyev (off-wing). 

 

Have fun creating a third line though. 

 

One other blender move:

 

?  (Beau likely) Miller Brock 

Hogs EP Garland 

 

Kuzmenko Bluegar Mikheyev.   That third line at least has teeth still.  

 

That first line combination is a radical move for sure, but I would definitely try this for one period.  A bigger question is when Suter comes back - who comes out?

[HorvatToBaertschi]

We can properly assess this team's forward group when we have both Blueger and Suter healthy at the same time. The only evident change is that Hoglander deserves more PP time. 

[stawns]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

How about this:

 

Hogs Miller Brock 

Mikheyev EP Garland

Beau  Bluegar  Kuzmenko 

Joshua Lafferty  PGD

 

That's radical.     Maybe it boost's the top six.   Third line is ??? to say the least.    Also a lot of these guys shot left.   Mikheyev on his left side would allow Garland a spot.    This would allow everyone to shoot their natural side aside from PGD.     Lafferty deserves a shot at C, plus he's a righty.    Aman I guess doesn't have a spot, or Aman slots in and rotate Joshua and PGD in and out.   While we wait for Suter anyways. 

 

Either that or:

 

Garland (off-wing) Miller Brock 

Hogs EP Mikheyev (off-wing). 

 

Have fun creating a third line though. 

 

One other blender move:

 

?  (Beau likely) Miller Brock 

Hogs EP Garland 

 

Kuzmenko Bluegar Mikheyev.   That third line at least has teeth still.  

 

Garland and Miller have always had very good chemistry and I'd like to see CG get some time playing with him.  

[Ballisticsports]

I understand why some hard working players get put on the top lines

Most coaches keep a tandem of players on lines

 

I remember the Canucks trying to find a fit for the Sedins

Burrows was given that opportunity (who's career was greater than his individual skill set)

Burrows himself said

 “I thought I was going to be a checker all my life,” Burrows said. “I didn’t have the skill set of a top six player".

 

[Mando27]

Garland's biggest issue I find is that he tends to take on too many players all by himself and ends up losing the puck.

[HKSR]

I think Hogs or Garland deserve some time with Miller and Boeser.

 

I wouldn't do anything to the Petey line.  They need to fight through it and honestly, once Petey gets going again, everything will be fine.

 

The bottom 6 can have any rotation of Suter, Blueger, Aman, Lafferty, Joshua, PDG, Beauvillier.

 

Personally I'd like to see (while Suter is injured):

 

Hoglander/Garland-Blueger-Joshua

PDG-Aman-Lafferty

[Phil_314]

Hasn't it always been Tocchet's style to reward defensive/ high-energy guys with some size?  PDG and Lafferty are both higher-energy but complementary guys who could do well next to skill as shown so far.  If Hoglander doesn't need that help from his linemates I'd be fine with him not playing up the lineup if he can still pop off by himself.  Garland I'm not sure why he's not getting more time, but it seems like him, Joshua and Suter were a strong 3rd line so if that's coach's role for him and he's doing well, I don't think we should reinvent the wheel and disrupt any existent chemistry.

[Jaimito]

 

 

 

[BC_Hawk]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Garland and Miller have always had very good chemistry and I'd like to see CG get some time playing with him.  

With Brock's revitalized game, would love to see Garland (offhand)-Miller-Brock. Garland always drives offense when paired with larger line mates; just gets more ice and less pressure. 

 

Have said it many times; Garland has elite skating and hands. He cant help that he's only 5'6" (he is NOT 5'10" as listed). IF you can give him some space and time where he isn't getting mauled (not sure how he doesn't draw even more penalties), he is ridiculous.

[BC_Hawk]

4 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

 

Perfect! That is the guy that probably needs a few games upstairs.

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, BC_Hawk said:

With Brock's revitalized game, would love to see Garland (offhand)-Miller-Brock. Garland always drives offense when paired with larger line mates; just gets more ice and less pressure. 

 

Have said it many times; Garland has elite skating and hands. He cant help that he's only 5'6" (he is NOT 5'10" as listed). IF you can give him some space and time where he isn't getting mauled (not sure how he doesn't draw even more penalties), he is ridiculous.

 

I'd like to see that too.  As a coach, and a player, I never really cared about what hand a player shoots with.  If you're a winger, you go where needed and where there's chemistry

Edited November 27, 2023 by stawns

[DeNiro]

12 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

 

I know it’s just because they played so much but wouldn’t be against giving them a night off tomorrow.

 

It would be a proactive way to manage their load a bit.

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by DeNiro

[DeNiro]

14 minutes ago, BC_Hawk said:

Perfect! That is the guy that probably needs a few games upstairs.

Yep.

 

Hes gotta be reminded why he earned his spot and get back to that. He hasn’t proven to be an everyday NHLer yet.

[smithers joe]

am i the only one who wants at least one hard to play against wingers on each line?

right now we have lafferty, joshua and diguiseppe. we also have a couple of small scrappy wingers in hoglander and garland.

these players also have to be strong defensive players too.

most successful lines have, a scorer, a playmaker and a strong defensive player that is harder to play against.

the sedins had burrows; west coast express had bertuzzi; gradin and smyl had fraser, even gretzky and kurri has semenko.

imo, we need one more top 6 winger like that. personally i like diguiseppe with miller and boeser. he gives the other two, more freedom and courage to do what they do best.

[stawns]

Just now, smithers joe said:

am i the only one who wants at least one hard to play against wingers on each line?

right now we have lafferty, joshua and diguiseppe. we also have a couple of small scrappy wingers in hoglander and garland.

these players also have to be strong defensive players too.

most successful lines have, a scorer, a playmaker and a strong defensive player that is harder to play against.

the sedins had burrows; west coast express had bertuzzi; gradin and smyl had fraser, even gretzky and kurri has semenko.

imo, we need one more top 6 winger like that. personally i like diguiseppe with miller and boeser. he gives the other two, more freedom and courage to do what they do best.

 

I would say Hogz is probably one of hardest, if not the hardest, to play against on the team

[DeNiro]

2 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I would say Hogz is probably one of hardest, if not the hardest, to play against on the team

I know Canucks fans would hate to hear it but he’s looking like a young Marchand out there.

 

Hopefully he doesn’t cross the line into full time rat though. 

[Rip The Mesh]

 

[Jaimito]

1 minute ago, DeNiro said:

I know Canucks fans would hate to hear it but he’s looking like a young Marchand out there.

 

Hopefully he doesn’t cross the line into full time rat though. 

Every team can use a rat 

[Jaimito]

30 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

Yep.

 

Hes gotta be reminded why he earned his spot and get back to that. He hasn’t proven to be an everyday NHLer yet.

He needs to refine his pizza delivery skills that got him on the top line earlier. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Jaimito

[smithers joe]

Just now, stawns said:

 

I would say Hogz is probably one of hardest, if not the hardest, to play against on the team

does the coach trust his defensive game? i could see hogs playing with petey if they had strong defensive winger on the other side.

 

[Mordekai]

28 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

 

 

 

I have said this before weeks ago when blueger was coming back that pdg hasn’t done much should be considered to be taken out but someone said to me that he will never be taken out of the lineup. We will see if he gets scratched next game