Troll or not Troll? Can a fan be disappointed in an aspect of their team and still be a fan? I have made this post directly Canuck fan related.

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

We are all Canucks. Literally one of the Canucks marketing campaigns.

 

A lot of people have called me a troll since I started posting on this forum for having a opinion of Tocchet that most disagree with. I have written a thread about it so I'm not going to post more about it here. 

 

Instead it made me ponder the question, What makes a fan or in Particular a Canuck Fan?

 

So something about me first, I am 40 years old, a season ticket holder since 2013 and was on the wait list 4 years prior to getting my tickets ( I'd like to point out that I Do not believe myself to be anymore of a fan then someone who doesn't have season tickets i just have the  means to buy them.) I have followed the Canucks since I can remember my brother is 4 years older than me and he got me hooked early.

 

Like most of you I remember the Drafting of Linden, Bure's first game the 94 playoff run the dark ages in the late 90s captained by he who shall not be named. The west coast express years right up to the Sedin era and the 2011 playoff run. Of course like most of you I was not born yet for the 1982 run or when the league awarded Vancouver a franchise, (if by chance you are old enough for these moment I'm jealous of you.)

 

It is my brother who got me hooked and my grandfather is the reason I truly love the Canucks. My grandfather  grew up in a working poor family but he was rich in the Canucks. My grandfather never went to a live game well I was growing up (he couldn't ever a afford it) but he had watched every game that had ever been televised and every morning the Province sports pages was open on the breakfast table, until my brother and I took him to his first game when I was 21 years old my Grandfather was 81 years old that was the first game that was televised he had ever missed. I got to play hockey growing up but for some reason my father hated it, to this day I have no clue why it skipped a generation.

 

In my 40 years I have heard many Canuck fans cheer for this team and many fans complain about this team. Be it the players or the coaches or management or most of peoples favorite of resent time the owner. The one thing that I have noticed is the fans that complain about the team seem to be the hardcore fans. Those are the fans that know who actually owns the team. Can tell you every player by their first and last name and what # they wear. These are the fans that get frustrated when a player they have followed for years leave or do not get re-signed ( I'm thinking of you Tanev he was a warrior but damn he got injured a lot ; ) (yes. you to Linden but you came back.) 

 

When I was younger I to use to complain about the players Dana Murzyn the Pylon. But as I played in higher tiers of hockey I started to learn that especially in the BCHL you where thrown into a locker room of strangers for the most part and then being asked to play a game at a very high level. This doesn't just come about within the group of players. The structure of the team comes about through the structure you play the chemistry you have with other players comes from the structure of the play. I played defense and played in many pairs but you could play along side anyone on that team because you already had a sense of where they where going to be or what they where expected to do because of that structure.  I learn that as much as we fans believed that it is up to the player a good coach could get you to play at your best at a level you didn't even know you had inside you. A good Coach could see what your potential was and get it out of you. 

 

I look at the current day Canucks and notice that the new management of JR, PA and company has brought in 10 new roster personnel since joining the Canucks in less than 2 years.

 

Mikheyev, Kuzmenko (2/3 of a first line centered by Petey)

Lafferty, Blueger, Suter (3/6 bottom 6 this season alone)

Saucey, Hronek, Cole and now Zadorov( 4/6 on defense)

Desmith (back up goalie)

 

There was also Beau.

Hoglander who played in the AHL last season.

 

So it is hard to say that JR, PA and company haven't done their job.

The Owner seems to have let his hands off the team and let management do their job.

Are talented  core players are still talented and are core players.

So that seems to leave one issue.

 

I know Fans have said Petey isn't playing at his level anymore. But the truth is he isn't a 150 pt player he is coming back to reality probably somewhere between 100-110 depending on how the league is playing. We compare players especially the top players because it is league dependent. Well the trap years where around no one was getting 100pts and Petey isn't getting 150 because the league doesn't allow for it. (yes McDavid is that good and I'm not happy to have to say that)

 

Fans rage on Myers but most of it I believe is his cap hit. At 4.5 mill I don't believe there would be much of the hate for him. But I ask you this how many pairings has he had and how many of them where good? Was OEL good? How many have lasted a whole season to gain chemistry with? Myers has a new pair just a few games ago Zadorov will Tocchet let it rid so they can build on something. Yes I do believe his confidence is shot. Can Tocchet help him? Yes I would re-sign Myers if the total was 3.00 mill and 1 year because he does eat a lot of minutes and by some chance if he could gain his confidence back I would say he could play above that 3 mill cap hit his real worth could be around 4.5-5.00 mill.

 

Now Fans are talking bad about Demko. 1 Day he is elite the next he needs more rest. He needs to work with the goalie coach. But I want you to look at Swayman in Bos his GAA is 2.08 his Sv% .932 and that is in front of the best defensive team in the league (I don't like admitting that neither you people are making me do comparisons of players I despise). Bos Pk 89.4 best in the league. Bos GA GP 2.48 3rd in the league. SO I ask the question do you think Swayman would post the same # on the Canucks or is it their defensive structure. Yes Demko is elite. Canucks PK 74.4% 27 in the league but Demko GAA is 2.46 and SV% is .918. DO you think Swayman could post Demkos # if he where on the Canucks I say NO.

 

So long time ago I decided I wasn't going to complain about the players. I believe team Management fails teams when they can't acquire good depth players or can't draft elite players. This team already had the elite players and this management has acquired the good depth players. The draft we will see.

 

Owners mess up teams when they meddle in the teams big picture hockey operations. If a team needs to re-build tear it down and re-build the damn thing.

 

That leaves Coaches they fail teams when they can't inspire players to give the best they have and that starts with the structure of the team what you expect the team not individual but the team to be. Call it culture if you want or style of play or Identity but what ever you call it it is on the coach to get it implemented. The Canucks have had very good examples of good coaches. Coaches that could connect with the players and teach them to win. I am talking about you Pat Quinn and Allan Vigneault.

 

My final thoughts. The last few plus years we have seen this team spiral out of control. No one ever taking charge and giving this team an identity. Finally we have some how gotten an all star cast of management who have been able to re allocate cap and make multitude of trades to finally get this team back on track. The problem is that it came years to late and we have seen our best players run through their ELC's and have had to pay Miller his money when just last year he was on one of the best contracts in the league. ALL of this has been squandered away due to inexperienced coaches and bad management. Some reason and I do believe it is because of this Boys club mantality that is in the league. We saw it with Benning, Linden and the Medicine hat group that got us LInden Vey. JR and PA really wanted their guy Tocchet as coach another inexperience coach. I don't deny it yes he was a good player but his resume as a coach is mediocre. I just don't want to see 2-3 years of our core elite players prime years go to waste. I'm not saying that Tocchet can't one day be a good coach. But I am saying when you see the Canucks lifting the CUP for the first time do you see Tocchet as the coach of that team. To me he is not and that means it isn't this core lifting the Cup for this team for the first time. That to me is a scary thought, if it's not this core that's another 10 years.

 

SO my opinion either makes me a Troll or it makes me a Canuck Fan.

 

We Are All Canucks Or We Are All Trolls. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by CanuckFanForever

[Toni Zamboni]

[Bob Long]

Of course you can. 

 

It crosses a line when people call someone delusional or some other dig for whatever their take is.

 

It's like exploring trade ideas. I find it fun to think about the possible trades, others think that's disrespectful to players. Same thing with discussions on prospects, some take it very personally.

 

And then theirs rebuild timing.

 

Did I mention favourite jerseys?

 

 

[Coconuts]

Can we get a tl;dr 

[Coconuts]

In all seriousness, folks probably wouldn't rag on Myers as much if he weren't making 6M 

 

But they'll always rag on someone, there's always a whipping boy or two about 

[iceman1964]

Not believing half of what the Vancouver bush league media says is a good starting point but believe me, a lot of us have sat through season after season of selling out the farm for a decent depthless reg season roster that never wins anything has been my gripe for as long as i can really but im still a fan, hopefully that's over now and growing our own guys instead of high priced free agents, then we can afford to pay higher for our secondary guys as we go along. 

Will it actually happen? Idk but maybe we'll get there, maybe not but this is as close to have a year in and year out threat instead of a one trick pony... 

Am I holding my breath? Fk no!!! Lol! 

 

[iceman1964]

14 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

Can we get a tl;dr 

Yeah Luongo was a prime example when he couldn't stop "everything"

Wrong quote, ooops to your whipping boy reply

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by iceman1964

[Ballisticsports]

Bruce Boudreau with one of the leagues better regular season records

 

Bruce Boudreau 2023 18-25-0-3

Rick Tocchet	2023-2024	37-21-0-5

Was BB an inexperienced coach that couldn't get us into the playoffs as well?

 

Where is this culture switch that you flip and everything changes right away?

Habits of any kind take time and commitment

As a so called fan, why be miserable after a win?

Up to you what kind of fan you wanna be, but every time i read a post of yours I hear it with Tony Gallaghers voice 

I almost gave up this team and sport (like several of my lifetime season ticket holders) after the way the last management and the NHL conducts business, but this new management team and coach has me believing and enjoying the present and future hope again

 

We have some elite players, just not an elite team right now and a management team and coaches who want that

Tocchet does not run the defence 

I just understand it will take time to change all the mistakes and bad habits but I see  a plan moving forward and can appreciate that there is no magic switch and the team has me overlooking the way the NHL is still run and I am enjoying the ride (like a roller coaster)

[Hogs and Podz]

A troll participates in adding to the misery of a loss by poking sensitive fans and vanishing during a win.  That's my definition of a troll.  To me it's a simple distinction.  I'm aware of the trolls in this forum. 

 

BUT to clarify... I don't consider cynical, beaten down by disappointment after disappointment... Year after year fans trolls. 

 

However, cynical fans that continue to 'support' the team I often wonder why?  To me it's like being in a loveless marriage but are to stubborn, or scared to leave... Sharing their misery with anyone that will listen.   

 

Whatev's... different strokes, different folks.

[Miss Korea]

You are a troll.  Tonight is the exception in which you've posted after a win.  After each loss, you've made some ridiculous topics.

 

You've proposed we make a trade for Mikael Granlund, one of the more overpaid players in this league (although he's playing better this year) and a center.  There's nowhere for him to play center on this team.  You want to offer up Garland for this guy and you want to throw in a draft pick.

 

You've also proposed we have two head coaches and have the second one be Mike Babcock.  Mike fucking Babcock.

 

But the worst one is your criticism of Tocchet.  He got 952 points in his NHL career and you think he'd struggle to make our third or fourth line.  When you directly prompted us to explain how Tocchet was helping the team, your response was always this:

 

Quote

I think most fans would have a hard time explaining what a coach actually does unless they themselves have played in the higher tiers; juniors, major juniors, USHL, NCAA.

 

If there is any of you guys out there maybe you could answer the question what has Tocchet done for this team?

 

What an unbelievably arrogant response.  Most of us are just average fans on a forum trying to watch hockey and trying to explain our point of view the best we can.  And here you are, the gatekeeper with a "if you're not a pro I don't value your opinion" bullshit.  If you want a professional hockey opinion why don't you ask a fucking professional and not random people on a forum?  Go ask your old college coach and stop wasting time with us.

 

You are sus as hell.  "CanuckFanForever", a conspicuously named poster and the supposed ex-college season ticket holder who only puts up insanely critical topics whenever the Canucks lose... in a winning season.

[88Canuck]

19 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

You are a troll.  Tonight is the exception in which you've posted after a win.  After each loss, you've made some ridiculous topics.

 

You've proposed we make a trade for Mikael Granlund, one of the more overpaid players in this league (although he's playing better this year) and a center.  There's nowhere for him to play center on this team.  You want to offer up Garland for this guy and you want to throw in a draft pick.

 

You've also proposed we have two head coaches and have the second one be Mike Babcock.  Mike fucking Babcock.

 

But the worst one is your criticism of Tocchet.  He got 952 points in his NHL career and you think he'd struggle to make our third or fourth line.  When you directly prompted us to explain how Tocchet was helping the team, your response was always this:

 

 

What an unbelievably arrogant response.  Most of us are just average fans on a forum trying to watch hockey and trying to explain our point of view the best we can.  And here you are, the gatekeeper with a "if you're not a pro I don't value your opinion" bullshit.  If you want a professional hockey opinion why don't you ask a fucking professional and not random people on a forum?  Go ask your old college coach and stop wasting time with us.

 

You are sus as hell.  "CanuckFanForever", a conspicuously named poster and the supposed ex-college season ticket holder who only puts up insanely critical topics whenever the Canucks lose... in a winning season.

100%! Straight facts!! 

[spook007]

25 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

You are a troll.  Tonight is the exception in which you've posted after a win.  After each loss, you've made some ridiculous topics.

 

You've proposed we make a trade for Mikael Granlund, one of the more overpaid players in this league (although he's playing better this year) and a center.  There's nowhere for him to play center on this team.  You want to offer up Garland for this guy and you want to throw in a draft pick.

 

You've also proposed we have two head coaches and have the second one be Mike Babcock.  Mike fucking Babcock.

 

But the worst one is your criticism of Tocchet.  He got 952 points in his NHL career and you think he'd struggle to make our third or fourth line.  When you directly prompted us to explain how Tocchet was helping the team, your response was always this:

 

 

What an unbelievably arrogant response.  Most of us are just average fans on a forum trying to watch hockey and trying to explain our point of view the best we can.  And here you are, the gatekeeper with a "if you're not a pro I don't value your opinion" bullshit.  If you want a professional hockey opinion why don't you ask a fucking professional and not random people on a forum?  Go ask your old college coach and stop wasting time with us.

 

You are sus as hell.  "CanuckFanForever", a conspicuously named poster and the supposed ex-college season ticket holder who only puts up insanely critical topics whenever the Canucks lose... in a winning season.

Mic drops...

 

[BPA]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.  And you may try to debate (defend) with others on it.  That is your right.  But don’t think you can get everyone to agree with your line of thinking.

 

There used to be a poster that lambasted Boeser all last year when it was well known he was going through a difficult time.  That was his opinion but lo and behold…Boeser has turned it around and you can’t even find that poster anymore (maybe on the old forum but I haven’t checked).

 

So perhaps give Tocchet a chance before you throw him under the bus.  He hasn’t even coached a full season with the Canucks yet.

[4petesake]

3 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

We are all Canucks. Literally one of the Canucks marketing campaigns.

 

A lot of people have called me a troll since I started posting on this forum for having a opinion of Tocchet that most disagree with. I have written a thread about it so I'm not going to post more about it here. 

 

Instead it made me ponder the question, What makes a fan or in Particular a Canuck Fan?

 

So something about me first, I am 40 years old, a season ticket holder since 2013 and was on the wait list 4 years prior to getting my tickets ( I'd like to point out that I Do not believe myself to be anymore of a fan then someone who doesn't have season tickets i just have the  means to buy them.) I have followed the Canucks since I can remember my brother is 4 years older than me and he got me hooked early.

 

Like most of you I remember the Drafting of Linden, Bure's first game the 94 playoff run the dark ages in the late 90s captained by he who shall not be named. The west coast express years right up to the Sedin era and the 2011 playoff run. Of course like most of you I was not born yet for the 1982 run or when the league awarded Vancouver a franchise, (if by chance you are old enough for these moment I'm jealous of you.)

 

It is my brother who got me hooked and my grandfather is the reason I truly love the Canucks. My grandfather  grew up in a working poor family but he was rich in the Canucks. My grandfather never went to a live game well I was growing up (he couldn't ever a afford it) but he had watched every game that had ever been televised and every morning the Province sports pages was open on the breakfast table, until my brother and I took him to his first game when I was 21 years old my Grandfather was 81 years old that was the first game that was televised he had ever missed. I got to play hockey growing up but for some reason my father hated it, to this day I have no clue why it skipped a generation.

 

In my 40 years I have heard many Canuck fans cheer for this team and many fans complain about this team. Be it the players or the coaches or management or most of peoples favorite of resent time the owner. The one thing that I have noticed is the fans that complain about the team seem to be the hardcore fans. Those are the fans that know who actually owns the team. Can tell you every player by their first and last name and what # they wear. These are the fans that get frustrated when a player they have followed for years leave or do not get re-signed ( I'm thinking of you Tanev he was a warrior but damn he got injured a lot ; ) (yes. you to Linden but you came back.) 

 

When I was younger I to use to complain about the players Dana Murzyn the Pylon. But as I played in higher tiers of hockey I started to learn that especially in the BCHL you where thrown into a locker room of strangers for the most part and then being asked to play a game at a very high level. This doesn't just come about within the group of players. The structure of the team comes about through the structure you play the chemistry you have with other players comes from the structure of the play. I played defense and played in many pairs but you could play along side anyone on that team because you already had a sense of where they where going to be or what they where expected to do because of that structure.  I learn that as much as we fans believed that it is up to the player a good coach could get you to play at your best at a level you didn't even know you had inside you. A good Coach could see what your potential was and get it out of you. 

 

I look at the current day Canucks and notice that the new management of JR, PA and company has brought in 10 new roster personnel since joining the Canucks in less than 2 years.

 

Mikheyev, Kuzmenko (2/3 of a first line centered by Petey)

Lafferty, Blueger, Suter (3/6 bottom 6 this season alone)

Saucey, Hronek, Cole and now Zadorov( 4/6 on defense)

Desmith (back up goalie)

 

There was also Beau.

Hoglander who played in the AHL last season.

 

So it is hard to say that JR, PA and company haven't done their job.

The Owner seems to have let his hands off the team and let management do their job.

Are talented  core players are still talented and are core players.

So that seems to leave one issue.

 

I know Fans have said Petey isn't playing at his level anymore. But the truth is he isn't a 150 pt player he is coming back to reality probably somewhere between 100-110 depending on how the league is playing. We compare players especially the top players because it is league dependent. Well the trap years where around no one was getting 100pts and Petey isn't getting 150 because the league doesn't allow for it. (yes McDavid is that good and I'm not happy to have to say that)

 

Fans rage on Myers but most of it I believe is his cap hit. At 4.5 mill I don't believe there would be much of the hate for him. But I ask you this how many pairings has he had and how many of them where good? Was OEL good? How many have lasted a whole season to gain chemistry with? Myers has a new pair just a few games ago Zadorov will Tocchet let it rid so they can build on something. Yes I do believe his confidence is shot. Can Tocchet help him? Yes I would re-sign Myers if the total was 3.00 mill and 1 year because he does eat a lot of minutes and by some chance if he could gain his confidence back I would say he could play above that 3 mill cap hit his real worth could be around 4.5-5.00 mill.

 

Now Fans are talking bad about Demko. 1 Day he is elite the next he needs more rest. He needs to work with the goalie coach. But I want you to look at Swayman in Bos his GAA is 2.08 his Sv% .932 and that is in front of the best defensive team in the league (I don't like admitting that neither you people are making me do comparisons of players I despise). Bos Pk 89.4 best in the league. Bos GA GP 2.48 3rd in the league. SO I ask the question do you think Swayman would post the same # on the Canucks or is it their defensive structure. Yes Demko is elite. Canucks PK 74.4% 27 in the league but Demko GAA is 2.46 and SV% is .918. DO you think Swayman could post Demkos # if he where on the Canucks I say NO.

 

So long time ago I decided I wasn't going to complain about the players. I believe team Management fails teams when they can't acquire good depth players or can't draft elite players. This team already had the elite players and this management has acquired the good depth players. The draft we will see.

 

Owners mess up teams when they meddle in the teams big picture hockey operations. If a team needs to re-build tear it down and re-build the damn thing.

 

That leaves Coaches they fail teams when they can't inspire players to give the best they have and that starts with the structure of the team what you expect the team not individual but the team to be. Call it culture if you want or style of play or Identity but what ever you call it it is on the coach to get it implemented. The Canucks have had very good examples of good coaches. Coaches that could connect with the players and teach them to win. I am talking about you Pat Quinn and Allan Vigneault.

 

My final thoughts. The last few plus years we have seen this team spiral out of control. No one ever taking charge and giving this team an identity. Finally we have some how gotten an all star cast of management who have been able to re allocate cap and make multitude of trades to finally get this team back on track. The problem is that it came years to late and we have seen our best players run through their ELC's and have had to pay Miller his money when just last year he was on one of the best contracts in the league. ALL of this has been squandered away due to inexperienced coaches and bad management. Some reason and I do believe it is because of this Boys club mantality that is in the league. We saw it with Benning, Linden and the Medicine hat group that got us LInden Vey. JR and PA really wanted their guy Tocchet as coach another inexperience coach. I don't deny it yes he was a good player but his resume as a coach is mediocre. I just don't want to see 2-3 years of our core elite players prime years go to waste. I'm not saying that Tocchet can't one day be a good coach. But I am saying when you see the Canucks lifting the CUP for the first time do you see Tocchet as the coach of that team. To me he is not and that means it isn't this core lifting the Cup for this team for the first time. That to me is a scary thought, if it's not this core that's another 10 years.

 

SO my opinion either makes me a Troll or it makes me a Canuck Fan.

 

We Are All Canucks Or We Are All Trolls. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I definitely wouldn’t call you a troll but since you ask…when someone is hyper-fixated on something as you are with Tocchet people get annoyed with it when you start several threads and bring it up in multiple conversations. We get it - you don’t like the coach. You are more than welcome to your opinion and hell, there is always the possibility you’ll be proven right. 

 

Also suggesting that you have some special insight that others lack such as playing college hockey and that it makes your opinion more valid is not a strategy that will engage people. We used to have a goalie that posted here that played high level hockey (the NHL if I remember correctly) that was very interesting to listen to but he never talked down to other posters. People are willing to have a dialogue but no one wants to be lectured if you come across as a know-it-all.

 

At the end of the day you go ahead and post however you like but don’t expect a different result if nothing changes. I don’t normally tell people how to post but you asked so I answered. Cheers.
 

 

[spook007]

5th in the league, but the coach suck... yes we got it...  

 

Bar for 1 game, you only turn up after defeats...

 

Did you by any chance play Junior B, as there used to be an arrogant arse, who thought he was far superior to the rest of the board, cause (as he said) he had played Jr. B. 
Luckily there are lots of ex-players up to a certain standard on these boards, so he was eventually shot down...

 

Opinions are like arseholes... we all have one.
This is good, as it gives us something to discuss. Hearing others points of views are how we broaden our horizon.

However there is a destinct difference between bringing something to a discussion, and goating fellow posters. 

 

Enjoy the game...

Edited December 9, 2023 by spook007

[cripplereh]

Always someone on the team people do like and don't.

 

Me two people I got called a Troll for as I liked and didn't like. Iron Mike and Naslund.

 

Naslund to me was a soft captain in interviews and at times looked away when asked tough questions.Loved his play just thought we had better options for captain.

 

Iron Mike I had a coach like him and loved it as I always played hard at sports.The team got better after he left but yes I do agree that he had to much control when coaching here but he in his career was a winner and one of the best.

[joe-max]

I can only speak for myself, but I'd say it is less the opinion itself that puts people off but the way it is conveyed. Same with King H., it is hard to take someone seriously when an unshakeable opinion is extremely strong and expressed in an arrogant, somewhat demeaning manner. Doesn't leave much room for constructive dialogue.

[Alflives]

10 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

We are all Canucks. Literally one of the Canucks marketing campaigns.

 

A lot of people have called me a troll since I started posting on this forum for having a opinion of Tocchet that most disagree with. I have written a thread about it so I'm not going to post more about it here. 

 

Instead it made me ponder the question, What makes a fan or in Particular a Canuck Fan?

 

So something about me first, I am 40 years old, a season ticket holder since 2013 and was on the wait list 4 years prior to getting my tickets ( I'd like to point out that I Do not believe myself to be anymore of a fan then someone who doesn't have season tickets i just have the  means to buy them.) I have followed the Canucks since I can remember my brother is 4 years older than me and he got me hooked early.

 

Like most of you I remember the Drafting of Linden, Bure's first game the 94 playoff run the dark ages in the late 90s captained by he who shall not be named. The west coast express years right up to the Sedin era and the 2011 playoff run. Of course like most of you I was not born yet for the 1982 run or when the league awarded Vancouver a franchise, (if by chance you are old enough for these moment I'm jealous of you.)

 

It is my brother who got me hooked and my grandfather is the reason I truly love the Canucks. My grandfather  grew up in a working poor family but he was rich in the Canucks. My grandfather never went to a live game well I was growing up (he couldn't ever a afford it) but he had watched every game that had ever been televised and every morning the Province sports pages was open on the breakfast table, until my brother and I took him to his first game when I was 21 years old my Grandfather was 81 years old that was the first game that was televised he had ever missed. I got to play hockey growing up but for some reason my father hated it, to this day I have no clue why it skipped a generation.

 

In my 40 years I have heard many Canuck fans cheer for this team and many fans complain about this team. Be it the players or the coaches or management or most of peoples favorite of resent time the owner. The one thing that I have noticed is the fans that complain about the team seem to be the hardcore fans. Those are the fans that know who actually owns the team. Can tell you every player by their first and last name and what # they wear. These are the fans that get frustrated when a player they have followed for years leave or do not get re-signed ( I'm thinking of you Tanev he was a warrior but damn he got injured a lot ; ) (yes. you to Linden but you came back.) 

 

When I was younger I to use to complain about the players Dana Murzyn the Pylon. But as I played in higher tiers of hockey I started to learn that especially in the BCHL you where thrown into a locker room of strangers for the most part and then being asked to play a game at a very high level. This doesn't just come about within the group of players. The structure of the team comes about through the structure you play the chemistry you have with other players comes from the structure of the play. I played defense and played in many pairs but you could play along side anyone on that team because you already had a sense of where they where going to be or what they where expected to do because of that structure.  I learn that as much as we fans believed that it is up to the player a good coach could get you to play at your best at a level you didn't even know you had inside you. A good Coach could see what your potential was and get it out of you. 

 

I look at the current day Canucks and notice that the new management of JR, PA and company has brought in 10 new roster personnel since joining the Canucks in less than 2 years.

 

Mikheyev, Kuzmenko (2/3 of a first line centered by Petey)

Lafferty, Blueger, Suter (3/6 bottom 6 this season alone)

Saucey, Hronek, Cole and now Zadorov( 4/6 on defense)

Desmith (back up goalie)

 

There was also Beau.

Hoglander who played in the AHL last season.

 

So it is hard to say that JR, PA and company haven't done their job.

The Owner seems to have let his hands off the team and let management do their job.

Are talented  core players are still talented and are core players.

So that seems to leave one issue.

 

I know Fans have said Petey isn't playing at his level anymore. But the truth is he isn't a 150 pt player he is coming back to reality probably somewhere between 100-110 depending on how the league is playing. We compare players especially the top players because it is league dependent. Well the trap years where around no one was getting 100pts and Petey isn't getting 150 because the league doesn't allow for it. (yes McDavid is that good and I'm not happy to have to say that)

 

Fans rage on Myers but most of it I believe is his cap hit. At 4.5 mill I don't believe there would be much of the hate for him. But I ask you this how many pairings has he had and how many of them where good? Was OEL good? How many have lasted a whole season to gain chemistry with? Myers has a new pair just a few games ago Zadorov will Tocchet let it rid so they can build on something. Yes I do believe his confidence is shot. Can Tocchet help him? Yes I would re-sign Myers if the total was 3.00 mill and 1 year because he does eat a lot of minutes and by some chance if he could gain his confidence back I would say he could play above that 3 mill cap hit his real worth could be around 4.5-5.00 mill.

 

Now Fans are talking bad about Demko. 1 Day he is elite the next he needs more rest. He needs to work with the goalie coach. But I want you to look at Swayman in Bos his GAA is 2.08 his Sv% .932 and that is in front of the best defensive team in the league (I don't like admitting that neither you people are making me do comparisons of players I despise). Bos Pk 89.4 best in the league. Bos GA GP 2.48 3rd in the league. SO I ask the question do you think Swayman would post the same # on the Canucks or is it their defensive structure. Yes Demko is elite. Canucks PK 74.4% 27 in the league but Demko GAA is 2.46 and SV% is .918. DO you think Swayman could post Demkos # if he where on the Canucks I say NO.

 

So long time ago I decided I wasn't going to complain about the players. I believe team Management fails teams when they can't acquire good depth players or can't draft elite players. This team already had the elite players and this management has acquired the good depth players. The draft we will see.

 

Owners mess up teams when they meddle in the teams big picture hockey operations. If a team needs to re-build tear it down and re-build the damn thing.

 

That leaves Coaches they fail teams when they can't inspire players to give the best they have and that starts with the structure of the team what you expect the team not individual but the team to be. Call it culture if you want or style of play or Identity but what ever you call it it is on the coach to get it implemented. The Canucks have had very good examples of good coaches. Coaches that could connect with the players and teach them to win. I am talking about you Pat Quinn and Allan Vigneault.

 

My final thoughts. The last few plus years we have seen this team spiral out of control. No one ever taking charge and giving this team an identity. Finally we have some how gotten an all star cast of management who have been able to re allocate cap and make multitude of trades to finally get this team back on track. The problem is that it came years to late and we have seen our best players run through their ELC's and have had to pay Miller his money when just last year he was on one of the best contracts in the league. ALL of this has been squandered away due to inexperienced coaches and bad management. Some reason and I do believe it is because of this Boys club mantality that is in the league. We saw it with Benning, Linden and the Medicine hat group that got us LInden Vey. JR and PA really wanted their guy Tocchet as coach another inexperience coach. I don't deny it yes he was a good player but his resume as a coach is mediocre. I just don't want to see 2-3 years of our core elite players prime years go to waste. I'm not saying that Tocchet can't one day be a good coach. But I am saying when you see the Canucks lifting the CUP for the first time do you see Tocchet as the coach of that team. To me he is not and that means it isn't this core lifting the Cup for this team for the first time. That to me is a scary thought, if it's not this core that's another 10 years.

 

SO my opinion either makes me a Troll or it makes me a Canuck Fan.

 

We Are All Canucks Or We Are All Trolls. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

IMHAO posters, who are fans of other teams that promote their players while being critical of ours, are fishing. Why be on another team’s board in the first place if you’re a fan of a different club? Go to that team’s board. It’s fun to make sport of other clubs. When any team loses (not us, of course) it should be open season to make sport of their players and team. Poking fun at McBaby and Divesatl is great stuff! The Smurfs in Haberdoodleville. The way the Sabres are imploding and the Sens are losing. It’s fun to laugh at them. 
But going to one of those club’s boards and make such comments would be fishing. 
If a poster is clearly a fan of us and no other club (should really hate all other clubs) then being critical is 100% fine. 

[-dlc-]

Here's the thing for me.....if it's NOTHING but complaining, being stuck in the past, etc. ... it becomes questionable. Why bother?

 

It's not about having opposing opinions....it's about never seeing the bright spots, and there are some. 

 

Being a fan is supporting your team, even through bad times. Sure, constructive criticism is fine but if it's nothing but, you have to reevaluate things. Some people just have moving targets and zero in on one bad aspect after another. No team is perfect....there are highs and lows and we experience that. We've had a lot of disappointment as fans and it's understandable to expect more, but patience is required throughout a season. And I feel that some just "look" for the next thing to complain about. 

 

We are all Canucks....but I'm convinced there are a few trolls here that are wolves in sheep's clothing. They're not here because they love this team, they're here to bait and rile members up. Remember...some come here for the off topic and white noise sections and the Canucks stuff is just filling a void when they're bored. Seen some of that.

 

It's also in "how" you present your criticism. Many here use words like "objective, realistic, rose coloured glasses, homers" etc. to try to validate their points. For me, it does the opposite. For as much as people are called out as trolls and for baiting, the flipside is those who simply support the team are called blind homers. It all balances out.

[Chon derry]

Moaning and groaning about a story makes it ( the story ) about them. For all the other people watching the story unfold and saying positive things about the story whether they think the story is good or bad isn’t dissimilar. The complainer is no more part of the story than the supporters.  In fact they should be viewed as less a part of the story. We’re all just watching it liking it or not.  Its that theres more of an admittance of being an observer to the story from the positive observer. Either way the actors in this particular story aren’t asking anybody to support or dump on it. In fact the only thing they require is that you pay for it. Their not acting it out to please  or piss anyone off it’s their story like it or not ,just leave money that’s all. We’re not part of the story we’re only watching it. Like it or not.  If the story ends the way we hope it does. Then and only then do we become part of the story as it ends. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by Chon derry

[DrJockitch]

This is true for most jobs now but it easy to see the things that go well but the greater effort of analysis goes into what isn’t going well or even better what is about to not go well. 
‘Not going to tell people to be blindly allegiance but also can’t ignore the past as that is the precedent for what we have. 
‘To say we can’t look at the last few years and see what trends are there is just foolish. We need to look at it through the lens of what is different but to ignore trends is just asking for trouble. 
ie, every time Myer’s has a few good games people think he is fixed and ignore the last several years of evidence that Chaos is just his game and he always goes back to it. 
‘The lack of mental toughness and focus has been a problem for years and often plagues young teams, even ones who spend like crazy on vets to try to lead the way. 
Be the fan you want to be but don’t tell me how to be a fan. 
‘If you want to play a character on this board like @Alflivesthen great do it. Have fun. It is just a silly hockey discussion board. 

Edited December 9, 2023 by DrJockitch

[-dlc-]

6 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

This is true for most jobs now but it easy to see the things that go well but the greater effort analysis goes into what isn’t going well or even better what is about to not go well. 
‘Not going to tell people to be blindly allegiance but also can’t ignore the past as that is the precedent for what we have. 
‘To say we can’t look at the last few years and see what trends are there is just foolish. We need to look at it through the lens of what is different but to ignore trends is just asking for trouble. 
ie, every time Myer’s has a few good games people think he is fixed and ignore the last several years of evidence that Chaos is just his game and he always goes back to it. 
‘The lack of mental toughness and focus has been a problem for years and often plagues young teams, even ones who spend like crazy on vets to try to lead the way. 
Be the fan you want to be but don’t tell me how to be a fan. 
‘If you want to play a character on this board like @Alflivesthen great do it. Have fun. It is just a silly hockey discussion board. 

Here's the thing though.....we've got a new coach, basically a fairly different roster and so at some point things from the past can't be brought forward and pinned on the present. The NHL is tough and we're experiencing that along with our team.

 

Teams DO win and lose....sometimes sloppily or by grinding it out. 

 

For me, it's like the Miller deal. The handful of us who supported him took so much heat. We didn't know anything. He's detrimental to the team and holding it back. His "moods" are creating issues in the room.

 

Now that those myths have been debunked, it's like it's all glossed over and swept under the rug now. Time to find another reason to bitch and moan. Fire ___________ has been a theme around here and it's constantly moving targets.

 

Some will still try to defend their stance by giving RT credit for JT's success...but he had success last year too and it was ignored. Because of a few "moments" where people just glommed onto the negative.

 

Learn to pace yourselves (to noone in particular, just those who are riled up most of the time). Breathe in between the bad in order to see some good.

[-dlc-]

Here I go, tldr Deb.

 

I guess if it was "an aspect" as the title suggests.....sure.

 

But it's the "always somethings" that seem to be more about that theme. Pointing out flaws. Waiting in the wings for losses to unleash their...knowledge.

 

Being a fan, for me, is quite different. I've had a LOT of strife in my life and I do this for pure joy.....not because I'm an expert who can break down and analyze the game. There are people paid to do that...I'm just here to cheer.

[HKSR]

The fact you care enough to have an opinion on this team makes you a fan.  Otherwise there is an infinite amount of other things to do in your life than spend time thinking about or posting about what's good or bad about the Canucks.

 

Trolls are anti Canucks fans.  Different thing altogether.  Not sure why people waste time in their lives to be one.

 

Edited December 9, 2023 by HKSR

[HKSR]

13 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

This is true for most jobs now but it easy to see the things that go well but the greater effort of analysis goes into what isn’t going well or even better what is about to not go well. 
‘Not going to tell people to be blindly allegiance but also can’t ignore the past as that is the precedent for what we have. 
‘To say we can’t look at the last few years and see what trends are there is just foolish. We need to look at it through the lens of what is different but to ignore trends is just asking for trouble. 
ie, every time Myer’s has a few good games people think he is fixed and ignore the last several years of evidence that Chaos is just his game and he always goes back to it. 
‘The lack of mental toughness and focus has been a problem for years and often plagues young teams, even ones who spend like crazy on vets to try to lead the way. 
Be the fan you want to be but don’t tell me how to be a fan. 
‘If you want to play a character on this board like @Alflivesthen great do it. Have fun. It is just a silly hockey discussion board. 

Oh my friend you are so wrong.  @Alflives is playing no character