[Discussion] Kuzmenko > Mikheyev

[DexM94]

we're talking a lot about Kuzy, because we expected another 35g, 70pts from him, but on this awful "second line", Pius Suter is the obvious miscast at 2C duty. But there is another player who is surprisily under the radar and seems to not never been held for accountable : Ilya Mikheyev. 
Out of the whole 2nd line, the only one i keep on it is Kuzy. 

We need to either trade Mikheyev or demote him to the 4th line with Suter.

 

1 - Lotto line

2 - Hoglander 2C (Jenner?) Kuzmenko

3 - Joshua Blueger Garland

4 - Mikheyev Suter Lafferty

+ Aman 

 

I'd trade Mikheyev to make room for Jenner, and promote Podkolzin.

 

thoughts ?

[Elias Pettersson]

Mikheyev is one of our top penalty killers.  He plays the Tocchet way and so Tocchet trusts him.  He is not the problem.  Suter isn't a 2C which throws the entire line off.  They either need to turn it into a true scoring line with Kuzmenko on it or they need to turn it into a true shutdown line and take Kuzmenko off if it.

[DownUndaCanuck]

Mikheyev needs to be held accountable offensively, he's not producing or generating anything and always just dumps the puck in and forechecks. As boring as it is to watch, that is exactly what Tocchet wants - he has bought in to Tocchet hockey. It's boring, it doesn't generate chances but it's safe and Mikheyev's great defensively. When he was playing with Petey last year he was playing a different role - more offensive-minded, whereas now he's been deployed as a defensive gritty winger. 

 

For 5M though you need a bit more offence, a bit like how Garland is now producing for us finally.

 

Kuzmenko right now sadly isn't bringing either. He looks flashy and skilled but isn't generating offence, and doesn't forecheck, hit, skate particularly well or defend or kill penalties. These 5M guys are constantly on a rotation in the dog-house, it was Garland to start the year, now it's Kuzmenko but Mikheyev does deserve a bit more of an inspection.

[kettlevalley]

So with Kuz and Mik being more the puck carrying wingers and creative play makers does their line work better with a bigger puck separating center?  Cause Dakota Joshua is listed as a center........hmmm.  I would like to see that tried.  

[Sativika]

11 minutes ago, DexM94 said:

we're talking a lot about Kuzy, because we expected another 35g, 70pts from him, but on this awful "second line", Pius Suter is the obvious miscast at 2C duty. But there is another player who is surprisily under the radar and seems to not never been held for accountable : Ilya Mikheyev. 
Out of the whole 2nd line, the only one i keep on it is Kuzy. 

We need to either trade Mikheyev or demote him to the 4th line with Suter.

 

1 - Lotto line

2 - Hoglander 2C (Jenner?) Kuzmenko

3 - Joshua Blueger Garland

4 - Mikheyev Suter Lafferty

+ Aman 

 

I'd trade Mikheyev to make room for Jenner, and promote Podkolzin.

 

thoughts ?

 

 I believe the plan after Bo was traded was that Petey be our #1 and JTM our #2. Both Petey and JTM obviously can play both positions as needed. Hence the re-appearance of the Lotto line. Petey began the season between the two Russians and JTM between Flow and ???? (PDG. Hogz....)

 

Needless to say, because of the deployment of the Lotto line, Suter be the guy to man the 2nd between the Russians. Suter be in a Swiss Army knife role that he's known for. I agree he's not the answer long term or for the playoffs. But given the situation, he's doing alright.

 

Ilya seems to have cooled off, I'll give ya' that. But we got him for a reason; ya' can't coach natural speed skating ability. We needed to make our game faster, which in turn can make a team more difficult to play against. Everyone has a role to play. Ilya pre injury was more impactful for sure, but the reason he's cooled off? I dunno. Could be post injury conditioning, rust, the absence of Petey at centre, who knows! That being said........................

.....................Ilya could be used as a trade chip for sure. We need cap and for the right player coming back? I don't see why not!

 

We're all aware of Kuzy's woes this season. He's fallen off and seemingly became the whipping boy because of such. However, I agree with you on keeping him. There's no doubt in my mind that he'll come around. I mean last night he was in the mix and was noticeable. Also noticed that RT was 'coaching' him on the bench during the game. "Coaching the hell out of him" as it were. Maybe the 'tutoring' approach of coaching if you will, has made an impact and was probably what Kuzy needed to turn things around. Tat being said....................................

.................I get it though. Sadly, he's a name that intrigues other teams and can bring us that power forward or 2nd line centre that management is looking for in our playoff push. However it'd be great to see Kuzy flourish with us. I'm a sucker for NOT having seemingly nice guys finishing last!

 

Jenner would be a wonderful get for sure. So would Lindholm, so would Ericsson Ek. If ya' wanna keep Kuzy, I would say to get any of those centres, he'd have to be in the mix in trade talks to acquire such.

 

Pods? Naw. Do with him what we did for Hogz. Keep him down there. If in the event that Abby isn't in the playoffs, then yea. We could use the depth when the big club's playoff push happens.

[tas]

51 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Mikheyev needs to be held accountable offensively

players don't get held accountable for offense because coaches know that offense comes and goes. 

 

if they're playing the right way, within the system, there's lots of leeway for going cold offensively. that's the whole point of having depth, so that when one guy is cold, you have enough remaining guys that are still going to get you through.  

[DrJockitch]

Kuzmenko is a soft defensively poor goal scorer who is not producing. 
Mik is a forechecker and defensive winger meant to dig out pucks, go to the net, hustle back and kill penalties.  He does a lot more than score goals. Before he came to us he was well known for getting lots of breakaways and wide open shots and firing them off into the corner of the rink. He has never been a great offensive player, wasn’t brought in to be a great offensive player and isn’t paid to be a great offensive player. He is there to fill a role and fills it well, any secondary offence is just gravy. 

[Blue]

Mik is a good player. But i knew he'd be caught up in the "what have you done for me lately" narrative eventually. 

 

Anyone who gets on a cold steak gets put on the trade block with this fanbase 

[dannydog]

I’ve seen in multiple games where kuzzy has set up players perfectly for tap ins to see none capitalized on. Latest example last night was pius suter whiffing on a perfect pass from behind the net by kuz. Happens quite frequently.

[CanuckMan]

Forget Sutr, how about when Petey was their center? They played good for about the first 15 games and then the offence started to dry up on that line. My guess is it’s not a center problem. On most good teams Mikheyev would be a very good third liner. Only problem is on our team he’s paid like a 2nd liner. 
I would definitely keep Mikheyev over Kuzmenko. Clearly we haven’t had a problem scoring goals with the both of them combing for a magnificent 2 assists in the last 10 games. So they’re not driving our offence. I’d rather keep Mikh for his defence game and PK work.

[Junkyard Dog]

I don’t think Tocchet agrees. 
 

He cares about playing the right way more than producing offensively. 
 

There’a a reason why Mik isn’t getting the same treatment as Kuz. 

[Hammertime]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Mikheyev is one of our top penalty killers.  He plays the Tocchet way and so Tocchet trusts him.  He is not the problem.  Suter isn't a 2C which throws the entire line off.  They either need to turn it into a true scoring line with Kuzmenko on it or they need to turn it into a true shutdown line and take Kuzmenko off if it.

Mik is 15th in 4 on 5 ice time. Hardly a top pker

 

He pk'd a bit last year 10th he was part of our historically bad PK unit. He had 0 blocks 0 takeaways 3rd worst goals against per 60 3rd worst high danger shots against per 60.

 

Mikheyev's defensive ability is over stated in reality he's just not that good.

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Hammertime said:

Mik is 15th in 4 on 5 ice time. Hardly a top pker

 

He pk'd a bit last year 10th he was part of our historically bad PK unit. He had 0 blocks 0 takeaways 3rd worst goals against per 60 3rd worst high danger shots against per 60.

 

Mikheyev's defensive ability is over stated in reality he's just not that good.

[DexM94]

1 hour ago, Blue said:

Mik is a good player. But i knew he'd be caught up in the "what have you done for me lately" narrative eventually. 

 

Anyone who gets on a cold steak gets put on the trade block with this fanbase 

 

it's not a cold streak, it's since Petey left the line. Mikh was a complementary player with Petey, now he can't create any offense at all.
i liked Mikh for his speed, since his injury he lost his fast strides. 

i would keep him if it works cap wise, but we absolutly need a gifted 2C who ressurect the line. 
 

[Gurn]

Ilya should have been getting games of rest, as he is coming back from leg surgery. This surgery has slowed him down, and the total recovery time is into next season.

He can play, but speed is a large factor in his game. A few games off would have helped him, and I'm looking forward to next year when he is back to 100%.

Soucy is another, coming back from injury player, that should get a game off here and there.

[Optimist Prime]

I really do wanna see just a look with Raty at 2C, but not with Kuzmenko, we would need a faster player on the wing for Raty to work out well. 

[EdgarM]

3 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Kuzmenko is a soft defensively poor goal scorer who is not producing. 
Mik is a forechecker and defensive winger meant to dig out pucks, go to the net, hustle back and kill penalties.  He does a lot more than score goals. Before he came to us he was well known for getting lots of breakaways and wide open shots and firing them off into the corner of the rink. He has never been a great offensive player, wasn’t brought in to be a great offensive player and isn’t paid to be a great offensive player. He is there to fill a role and fills it well, any secondary offence is just gravy. 

Bang on! and the main reason for our top six woes lately.

The reason for the bottom sixes success? We have players who can retrieve the puck and go to the net; Blueger/Joshua and Hogs/Suter. We need these players in the top six. 

PDG was doing that role before and Mik was doing OK last year. 

Boeser was exposed last night as he did not do well with TO's speedy wingers. Petey did an admiral job with his hits but he's no Joshua or even a Hogs along the boards, hence their struggles 5 on 5 last night.

We see what these type of players do for a player such as Garland, the same needs to be found for players like Petey and Boeser. 

Boeser had it with Miller/PDG for awhile. 

My thoughts are that we need two Joshua's and a last year Kuzzy, and we will be set. 

[DrJockitch]

2 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Bang on! and the main reason for our top six woes lately.

The reason for the bottom sixes success? We have players who can retrieve the puck and go to the net; Blueger/Joshua and Hogs/Suter. We need these players in the top six. 

PDG was doing that role before and Mik was doing OK last year. 

Boeser was exposed last night as he did not do well with TO's speedy wingers. Petey did an admiral job with his hits but he's no Joshua or even a Hogs along the boards, hence their struggles 5 on 5 last night.

We see what these type of players do for a player such as Garland, the same needs to be found for players like Petey and Boeser. 

Boeser had it with Miller/PDG for awhile. 

My thoughts are that we need two Joshua's and a last year Kuzzy, and we will be set. 

Been saying this since the beginning. Tocchet’s system requires forecheckers and our top 6 is short at least one. 
Kuz doesn’t play that role but Mik does. Problem is when the scorer on that line produces nothing it just can’t work.  
If we are presuming we go back to EP and JTM as top 2 centres we need a digger for JTM/Brock but also a finisher for EP if Kuz doesn’t turn it around. 
BTW Kuz looked good last night and liked to see him out towards the end of the game. A little carrot from Tocch since he has been getting a lot of the stick. 

[Miss Korea]

Two things.

 

1) Mikheyev is performing as advertised - a middle six winger with good speed and strong two-way play.

 

 

2) He has a no-trade clause.  He will absolutely block a move to a shithole like Columbus.

[EdgarM]

32 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Been saying this since the beginning. Tocchet’s system requires forecheckers and our top 6 is short at least one. 
Kuz doesn’t play that role but Mik does. Problem is when the scorer on that line produces nothing it just can’t work.  
If we are presuming we go back to EP and JTM as top 2 centres we need a digger for JTM/Brock but also a finisher for EP if Kuz doesn’t turn it around. 
BTW Kuz looked good last night and liked to see him out towards the end of the game. A little carrot from Tocch since he has been getting a lot of the stick. 

I am with you on that, Kuz not producing really puts a damper on the system Tocchet employs. 

He is looking a lot better lately and I hope he turns it around soon. 

Getting that forechecker with some offensive upside, Kuz improves, and all of a sudden we are looking pretty good. 

Having 4 lines firing on all cylinders, makes us a lot stronger even more so then what we look like now,scary. 

[DexM94]

11 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

Two things.

 

1) Mikheyev is performing as advertised - a middle six winger with good speed and strong two-way play.

 

 

2) He has a no-trade clause.  He will absolutely block a move to a shithole like Columbus.

he's listed as a 3rd liner. 
there is the problem. he would be great, as a 3rd liner. 

[Miss Korea]

5 minutes ago, DexM94 said:

he's listed as a 3rd liner. 
there is the problem. he would be great, as a 3rd liner. 

 

I never even look at that part.  But since you're mentioning it...

 

 

[Junkyard Dog]

Mikey is best utilized as a 3rd wheel/space creator/finisher to two offensive forwards in a top 6 line. 
 

That’s where he gets points. 
 

He also helps on the defensive side with offensive players so they both off-set and balance each other’s weaknesses. 
 

This is why the Kuz-Petey-Mik line had success last year. 
 

The problem this year is that Kuz fell off a cliff. Mik’s played with Kuz more than anyone else. As of late we have had no scoring winger in the top 6 to warrant us splitting up the lotto line. That’s probably why we are seeking one. 

[Junkyard Dog]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

Two things.

 

1) Mikheyev is performing as advertised - a middle six winger with good speed and strong two-way play.

 

 

2) He has a no-trade clause.  He will absolutely block a move to a shithole like Columbus.

Our best bet is to trade Kuz and add a quality scoring winger good enough to help us warrant splitting the lotto line. 

[RolexSub]

From that line I would take Suter out and put in Lafferty and give that a try!!! Lafferty will bring more energy to the line up and he will also hit to create a bit more room for the guys. Got nothing to lose and swap out Suter for Lafferty. Or another option is to swap Suter for Hogs and see how that goes.