[ARTICLE] What it might take to sign Nikita Zadorov and if it makes sense for the Canucks

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Priorit for me is Joshua and Zadorov. Since Hronek is an RFA, he can wait. Plus, he rejected the Canuck's previous reported offer of 8 years at 6.5M. 

 

Depends on what they want, I'm not interested in overpaying either of them. I'd offer them both five years max. 

 

Five years would have Zadorov expiring at 34 so ideally it'd be a four year deal. Joshua will be 28 on the 15th, I'd offer him a five year deal that'd have him expiring at 33 as a maximum.

 

I'm not interested in handing out 6+ year deals to bring the average down, I'd rather have the contracts expiring sooner than later and get the cap flex even if that bumps the average up. The Canucks should be careful about giving out deals longer than four years imo. 

 

At the end of the day if either of them want too much I hope management is prepared to let them walk. 

Edited May 9 by Coconuts

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, Jester13 said:

I think we're going to see some amazing team-friendly deals coming our way, including Joshua, Big Z, and Lindholm. 

I really hope so, because this team, if Allvin and Rutherford can somehow manage to keep some of the players on team friendly deals moving forward, and continue to add in the off-season, would be a dangerous team. 

 

DeSmith as good as he is, I think he's going to be replaced by Šilovs as back up next season. He's proven that he's ready to play in the NHL. He'd also come cheaper than what DeSmith probably would want. If management feels otherwise, then I can see DeSmith coming back on another 1 year contract, and Šilovs spending another year in the AHL, before coming up full time at 24 yo (still young as a goalie). 

 

Management needs to bring in another top six winger. I'm not convinced that player is Podkolzin, as much as some of us want that to be true. Guentzel if he makes it to free agency. 

 

 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

Depends on what they want, I'm not interested in overpaying either of them. I'd offer them both five years max. 

 

Five years would have Zadorov expiring at 34 so ideally it'd be a four year deal. Joshua will be 28 on the 15th, I'd offer him a five year deal that'd have him expiring at 33 as a maximum.

 

I'm not interested in handing out 6+ year deals to bring the average down, I'd rather have the contracts expiring sooner than later and get the cap flex even if that bumps the average up. The Canucks should be careful about giving out deals longer than four years imo. 

 

At the end of the day if either of them want too much I hope management is prepared to let them walk. 

I think management will be prepared to let them walk if they're wanting unrealistic demands. Their pro scouting has been very good, so I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in new players that have the same if not greater impact on the ice. It'll be an interesting off-season to say the least with so many players who are contributing in these playoffs becoming UFA's. 

[HarbularyBattery]

2 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

I really hope so, because this team, if Allvin and Rutherford can somehow manage to keep some of the players on team friendly deals moving forward, and continue to add in the off-season, would be a dangerous team. 

 

DeSmith as good as he is, I think he's going to be replaced by Šilovs as back up next season. He's proven that he's ready to play in the NHL. He'd also come cheaper than what DeSmith probably would want. If management feels otherwise, then I can see DeSmith coming back on another 1 year contract, and Šilovs spending another year in the AHL, before coming up full time at 24 yo (still young as a goalie). 

 

Management needs to bring in another top six winger. I'm not convinced that player is Podkolzin, as much as some of us want that to be true. Guentzel if he makes it to free agency. 

 

 

 

 

i think keeping lindholm is more important than finding another top-6 winger in trade/ufa

 

our center depth is causing all kinds of fits for edmonton right now

 

when EP finds his game again he should be able to elevate his wingers + we have some prospects that may have the offensive chops to play in the top-6

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

Just pay the guy whatever the fuck he wants....

 

Loving me some BIG Z.....

[Elias Pettersson]

 

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, N4ZZY said:

I think management will be prepared to let them walk if they're wanting unrealistic demands. Their pro scouting has been very good, so I wouldn't be surprised if they brought in new players that have the same if not greater impact on the ice. It'll be an interesting off-season to say the least with so many players who are contributing in these playoffs becoming UFA's. 

 

This is exactly how today's Joshua came about, if he does end up wanting more than management wants to give him I'm confident management will be able to find a capable player to slot into that spot. 

 

Zadorov's a bit tougher to replace than Joshua by virtue of him being a defenseman, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over Joshua going. Your bottom six is where you have more flex to tinker, bottom six players are much easier to find. 

 

44 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

 

Good, term is exactly where the sticking point should be. Folks can gush about how effective he is in this year's playoffs, he's been very effective, that doesn't mean he'll be the same player in 5-8 years. 

 

If he's willing to take 4 years, 5 years max, it probably gets done. 

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

This is exactly how today's Joshua came about, if he does end up wanting more than management wants to give him I'm confident management will be able to find a capable player to slot into that spot. 

 

Zadorov's a bit tougher to replace than Joshua by virtue of him being a defenseman, but I wouldn't lose any sleep over Joshua going. Your bottom six is where you have more flex to tinker, bottom six players are much easier to find. 

 

 

Good, term is exactly where the sticking point should be. Folks can gush about how effective he is in this year's playoffs, he's been very effective, that doesn't mean he'll be the same player in 5-8 years. 

 

If he's willing to take 4 years, 5 years max, it probably gets done. 

 

Is there any player on the team who will be the same in 8 years?  Zadorov and Joshua are playoff performers, these are the guys you win the cup with.  Neither one are easily replaced.  Also, Joshua isn't playing like a bottom 6 forward.  Joshua and Zadorov were literally two of the best players on the ice last night.  

 

Allvin will do everything possible to keep them both.  Zadorov is easily a 5x5 player.  Why would he only take 4 years?  Even Gudbranson got 4 years and he's like a bottom pairing plug.  Zadorov is a unicorn, there is literally no one like him in the entire NHL.  You simply pay the man and then cut elsewhere.  As Tocchet mentioned, BIG Z is not only valuable on the ice but he is just as valuable OFF the ice, specifically in the dressing room.

[gwarrior]

Pay the man!!!! He's exactly what we need!!!! Big, strong, and can pop in the clutch goal!!!!!! If he wants 6 years, do it. Don't know if I would go to 8 years. But pay him and keep him!!!! Guys like this don't grow on trees!!!!

[HKSR]

9 hours ago, HarbularyBattery said:

 

i think keeping lindholm is more important than finding another top-6 winger in trade/ufa

 

our center depth is causing all kinds of fits for edmonton right now

 

when EP finds his game again he should be able to elevate his wingers + we have some prospects that may have the offensive chops to play in the top-6

 

 

If EP finds his game, we're going to the finals.  I'm very confident about that.

[HarbularyBattery]

Just now, HKSR said:

If EP finds his game, we're going to the finals.  I'm very confident about that.

 

caveat being also getting demko back for the next round

 

we arent getting past dallas or colorado without him i think. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, HarbularyBattery said:

 

caveat being also getting demko back for the next round

 

we arent getting past dallas or colorado without him i think. 

Maybe... maybe not.  If EP gets his game back, we'd have 3 top tier lines.  

[HarbularyBattery]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Maybe... maybe not.  If EP gets his game back, we'd have 3 top tier lines.  

dallas has 3x top tier lines, their 3rd line has 2x 25 goal scorers

a very very good d-core

 

and top tier goaltending

 

we need to be firing on all cylinders to beat them

 

side note, they drafted absurdly well, jfc

 

wyatt johnson, stankoven, jason robertson, roope hintz

 

wtf

[HKSR]

12 minutes ago, HarbularyBattery said:

dallas has 3x top tier lines, their 3rd line has 2x 25 goal scorers

a very very good d-core

 

and top tier goaltending

 

we need to be firing on all cylinders to beat them

 

side note, they drafted absurdly well, jfc

 

wyatt johnson, stankoven, jason robertson, roope hintz

 

wtf

Hintz and Stankoven have Petey syndrome too though.  Hintz has 1 goal and no assists these playoffs (until tonight).  Stankoven has 0 goals and 2 assists.  Harley and Pavelski are also not contributing offensively.  Seguin is also struggling offensively.

 

When you look at actual offensive production, the Canucks are actually doing better than the stars these playoffs.

 

Edited May 10 by HKSR

[Coconuts]

15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Is there any player on the team who will be the same in 8 years?  Zadorov and Joshua are playoff performers, these are the guys you win the cup with.  Neither one are easily replaced.  Also, Joshua isn't playing like a bottom 6 forward.  Joshua and Zadorov were literally two of the best players on the ice last night.  

 

Allvin will do everything possible to keep them both.  Zadorov is easily a 5x5 player.  Why would he only take 4 years?  Even Gudbranson got 4 years and he's like a bottom pairing plug.  Zadorov is a unicorn, there is literally no one like him in the entire NHL.  You simply pay the man and then cut elsewhere.  As Tocchet mentioned, BIG Z is not only valuable on the ice but he is just as valuable OFF the ice, specifically in the dressing room.

 

No, likely not, which is precisely why the Canucks should generally be reluctant to hand out such extensive term. I don't care for longer deals that take players into their mid to late 30's, that ain't new. 

 

I'd argue that Zadorov is probably tougher to replace, I wouldn't lose any sleep over Joshua walking and I like Joshua. He was a project before he was what he is now, I reckon management could do something similar again. Would I like to keep him? Sure. Do I recognize that his price is probably going up? Yeah. 

 

Doesn't mean I'd be willing to give either of them whatever they want. Like I said previously, five years max for each, a higher cap hit to make up for less term wouldn't bother me. But I'm bullish on term, I'd rather the Canucks retain cap flexibility and part of that is being able to replace aging players sooner than later. 

 

I dunno why you're so pushy on Zadorov, I haven't been arguing that we shouldn't try to keep him, I'm just bullish on term. Seems the Canucks are too, which I view as a good thing. Five years would be the most I'd offer, that'd have his deal expiring at 34. Same goes for Joshua, five years would have him expiring at 33. 

[Provost]

52 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

No, likely not, which is precisely why the Canucks should generally be reluctant to hand out such extensive term. I don't care for longer deals that take players into their mid to late 30's, that ain't new. 

 

I'd argue that Zadorov is probably tougher to replace, I wouldn't lose any sleep over Joshua walking and I like Joshua. He was a project before he was what he is now, I reckon management could do something similar again. Would I like to keep him? Sure. Do I recognize that his price is probably going up? Yeah. 

 

Doesn't mean I'd be willing to give either of them whatever they want. Like I said previously, five years max for each, a higher cap hit to make up for less term wouldn't bother me. But I'm bullish on term, I'd rather the Canucks retain cap flexibility and part of that is being able to replace aging players sooner than later. 

 

I dunno why you're so pushy on Zadorov, I haven't been arguing that we shouldn't try to keep him, I'm just bullish on term. Seems the Canucks are too, which I view as a good thing. Five years would be the most I'd offer, that'd have his deal expiring at 34. Same goes for Joshua, five years would have him expiring at 33. 

Joshua is definitely more of a risk.  He couldn’t crack the NHL and has hit the jackpot this year with how he meshes with Garland.  It could be lightning in a bottle and be gone next year, or if he didn’t have Garland he might go back to being a fringe guy.  
 

Someone might just offer him more than it makes sense to match.  Wingers are just more replaceable and riskier to overpay.

 

Zadorov is less of a risk, even bad D often get paid $4 million a year.  They are just a more valuable position and there are fewer NHL calibre guys, and absolute plugs manage to stay in the NHL.  If the ask is really $5 million with some term… the downside is limited.  What are the odds Zadorov regresses to being worse than a guy like Gudbranson?  Zadorov said he was a top four guy and wanted to be where he was valued as such.  He put his body where his mouth is and has proven that he is much more than a 3rd pairing guy.

 

I say you slap an A on the guy and give him 5 years, hoping that you can get him under $5 million.  
 

If we have three reliable pairings next year and can spread the minutes out, I would love to see big Z get some time on the 2nd unit PP as the net front guy.  You could have two units with completely different plays and styles which would be a nightmare to coach and scout against.

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, Provost said:

Joshua is definitely more of a risk.  He couldn’t crack the NHL and has hit the jackpot this year with how he meshes with Garland.  It could be lightning in a bottle and be gone next year, or if he didn’t have Garland he might go back to being a fringe guy.  
 

Someone might just offer him more than it makes sense to match.  Wingers are just more replaceable and riskier to overpay.

 

Zadorov is less of a risk, even bad D often get paid $4 million a year.  They are just a more valuable position and there are fewer NHL calibre guys, and absolute plugs manage to stay in the NHL.  If the ask is really $5 million with some term… the downside is limited.  What are the odds Zadorov regresses to being worse than a guy like Gudbranson?  Zadorov said he was a top four guy and wanted to be where he was valued as such.  He put his body where his mouth is and has proven that he is much more than a 3rd pairing guy.

 

I say you slap an A on the guy and give him 5 years, hoping that you can get him under $5 million.  
 

If we have three reliable pairings next year and can spread the minutes out, I would love to see big Z get some time on the 2nd unit PP as the net front guy.  You could have two units with completely different plays and styles which would be a nightmare to coach and scout against.

 

Joshua's been very good this year, but there's absolutely a chance it's a flash in the pan. As you've said, it's hard to gauge how much of this year's success is representative of who he actually is as a player. Yeah, he's physical, has solid speed, and has put up solid production. He's been very good in the playoffs thus far, but we've seen guys get paid for one off playoff performances too. 

 

I think it makes sense for him to chase the bag via UFA, he could probably get more elsewhere and given his career earnings thus far he'd probably be smart to do so. I'm not as concerned about slotting another player into that spot as some are, his physicality can be replaced by someone else, or collectively. 

 

Zadorov is different as you've said, and we're more likely to get what we've gotten from him this season going forward. If he's willing to take five years and 5M or less that's pretty solid. It'd be interesting to see him on the powerplay, sure, but I'm not sure we'd see it, NHL teams tend to go with more forward heavy powerplay units now. It's often four forwards and a D. 

[Provost]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

Joshua's been very good this year, but there's absolutely a chance it's a flash in the pan. As you've said, it's hard to gauge how much of this year's success is representative of who he actually is as a player. Yeah, he's physical, has solid speed, and has put up solid production. He's been very good in the playoffs thus far, but we've seen guys get paid for one off playoff performances too. 

 

I think it makes sense for him to chase the bag via UFA, he could probably get more elsewhere and given his career earnings thus far he'd probably be smart to do so. I'm not as concerned about slotting another player into that spot as some are, his physicality can be replaced by someone else, or collectively. 

 

Zadorov is different as you've said, and we're more likely to get what we've gotten from him this season going forward. If he's willing to take five years and 5M or less that's pretty solid. It'd be interesting to see him on the powerplay, sure, but I'm not sure we'd see it, NHL teams tend to go with more forward heavy powerplay units now. It's often four forwards and a D. 

Tocchet put him as the net front on the 6 on 5 when we pulled our goalie... so it would be interesting to see it on a regular PP.

 

[Coconuts]

11 minutes ago, Provost said:

Tocchet put him as the net front on the 6 on 5 when we pulled our goalie... so it would be interesting to see it on a regular PP.

 

 

Sure, I'd just be a little surprised if it became a norm

[PureQuickness]

I don't think Joshua is a flash in the pan, despite what some of the posters above are saying. We've seen him play on different lines. The chemistry is OBVIOUS. Even with Kuzmenko's good year, we KNEW he had some flaws in his game that we put up with. On the other hand, Joshua is not like that. I genuinely think he likes it here and he will do what he can do keep him.

 

I say sign Joshua and big Z.

 

I think to make space for these two, trade Hronek.

[Provost]

1 hour ago, PureQuickness said:

I don't think Joshua is a flash in the pan, despite what some of the posters above are saying. We've seen him play on different lines. The chemistry is OBVIOUS. Even with Kuzmenko's good year, we KNEW he had some flaws in his game that we put up with. On the other hand, Joshua is not like that. I genuinely think he likes it here and he will do what he can do keep him.

 

I say sign Joshua and big Z.

 

I think to make space for these two, trade Hronek.

What different lines have we seen him play on exactly?  According to his ice time with different line-mates has was almost exclusively used with Garland and mostly had Blueger as his centre, occasionally subbed out with Suter and Miller... now Lindholm in the playoffs.

The only significant time he didn't have Garland as his linemate is 32 minutes of play with Beauvilllier where that line generated zero goals and the only time his SF% and CF% were under 50%.

There is no question the numbers indicate that Garland is the play driver on that line and they are better together than apart.

Garland did play more all over the lineup and it didn't matter if Mikheyev. Hoglander, or Podkolzin was on his other wing, his numbers were solid.

 

[RWJC]

Tocchet likes Zaddy on the back end. Methinks he will be extended. 

[HKSR]

18 hours ago, RWJC said:

Tocchet likes Zaddy on the back end. Methinks he will be extended. 

He's clearly a top 4 LHD.  We absolutely need him on the 2nd pair behind Hughes.  Soucy is looking more comfortable as a 3rd pair D.

[CanuckMan]

Zadorav needs to be signed in order for the Canucks to remain a playoff team. It’s pretty obvious the big body guys do better in the playoffs when the play gets rough. Zadorav, Myers, Miller, Joshua, Lindholm etc are the guys stepping up. Big, strong on the play, or gritty guys. 
 

[wai_lai416]

On 5/9/2024 at 11:31 AM, Coconuts said:

 

Depends on what they want, I'm not interested in overpaying either of them. I'd offer them both five years max. 

 

Five years would have Zadorov expiring at 34 so ideally it'd be a four year deal. Joshua will be 28 on the 15th, I'd offer him a five year deal that'd have him expiring at 33 as a maximum.

 

I'm not interested in handing out 6+ year deals to bring the average down, I'd rather have the contracts expiring sooner than later and get the cap flex even if that bumps the average up. The Canucks should be careful about giving out deals longer than four years imo. 

 

At the end of the day if either of them want too much I hope management is prepared to let them walk. 

I’m not too concern if we offer a 7-8 years contract to big Z if it keeps the cap down. Let’s be realistic the Canucks competitive window is prolly right now and the next 5 year ish. After that it’s all unknown. Heck in a few years we don’t even know if we still have Demko or if Hughes would leave in free agency. 5 years later miller would prolly be a 3rd-4th liner.. there’s a remote chance of him pavelski his career but it’s remote. Too much unknown 5-8 years down the road if u can guarantee yourself a competitive roster for the next 5 you do it. After that who cares. If PA or JR don’t go deep the next 5 years they prolly be gone anyways so the 6-8 years down the road wouldn’t affect them. If we are to stay competitive for the next 6-8 years too much would need to go right.. silov becomes the goalie of the future. Willander lekkerimaki becomes a top player. EP continue to produce at 31+ miller is still effective at 36 37 etc etc