Concerns about this team

[AnotherCanucksFan]

9 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Great teams need great goaltending. The Canucks are a 0.500 team without Demko (6-5-2 since his latest injury)

 

I can only hope he makes a big difference when he returns. I'd like to see the team confidence go up, some swagger. Soucy has been a mistake machine lately, they need to get Juulsen back in the lineup

 

Hughes - Hronek

Zadorov - Myers

Cole - Juulsen

Soucy 

 

 

I made another comment about impact of Demko.

 

Canucks were 33-11-5 between October 1, 2023 and February 4, 2024 ( .673 ) PRE All Star break and 15-11-4 between February 1, 2024 and April 10, 2024 ( .500 ) POST All Star break - that is a BIG slide.

They won twice as many games while losing the same amount of games PRE vs POST All Star break.

 

Since the All Star break, we've been a .500 hockey team regardless of whether we had Demko in net or not. 

• In the 17 games AFTER the All Star break and BEFORE Demko was injured. 6-7-2-1 record between February 8, 2004 and March 13, 2004
• In the 13 games he's missed. 6-5-2 record between March 13, 2024 and April 10, 2024

[Hammertime]

I feel like we are watching the pre season Canucks right now vs the regular season Canucks. 

 

To me it really seems like Toccet is trying some things out and trying styles and combinations that aren't necessarily our strengths but will be needed if we are going to go deep. 

 

I'm hoping that we will get back to playing a style that is more of a hybrid between Greens and Boudreau and we will see the offence return while also being able to hold a lead and slow a game down. I think the Minni 10-7 game was a game that changed how this team was coached. We can't do that. We need to control the pace and not get drawn into playing on another teams terms. 

[JayDangles]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

Why is the playoffs an automatic reset button?  Generally trends that happen at the end of a season continue in the post season 

I agree regarding trends. I don't believe the team will show up to game 1 and be a completely different team, but I do think it's an opportunity to let any past mistakes go. Start fresh. The Powerplay percentage in regular season doesn't matter anymore. They arent 2 for 15 on the PP at the start of playoffs. They are net zero.

It's the mental aspect of saying approach game 1 as game 1, not game 83

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I agree regarding trends. I don't believe the team will show up to game 1 and be a completely different team, but I do think it's an opportunity to let any past mistakes go. Start fresh. The Powerplay percentage in regular season doesn't matter anymore. They arent 2 for 15 on the PP at the start of playoffs. They are net zero.

It's the mental aspect of saying approach game 1 as game 1, not game 83

 

I don't think they've been playing poorly, they just aren't scoring and taking too many penalties that's going to be a big hill to climb.  I think their energy and focus has been pretty good otherwise

[Ballisticsports]

4 hours ago, kilgore said:

I have no problem discussing a fan's concerns in a thread dedicated to that.  The way I see it is that one could go down both roads. Pessimism and optimism about the playoff readiness.

 

Pettersson:  Getting less concerned as the games go by. IMO, he didn't want to sign before the playoffs, because he knows himself best, that he wanted to prove to management he was worth the money, and playing without the pressure of living up to the elite paycheck until he does earn it. A personal challenge that great athletes, like Jordon, give themselves.  But it is what it is now.  I think he'll be fine once the playoffs start, as there will be so much going on that issue will fade onto the back burner.  He won't have time to think too much, just react and perform.

 

2. Defence:  Soucy has been disappointing. I don't think he's that smart.  Anything requiring more hockey IQ and he's lost.  Cole is what he is.  An older veteran who is behind a step or two. But. A big Butt. Cole is an experienced playoff beast who will be invaluable in the post season. As long as his minutes are managed.  Which brings us round to Myers.  I know he's playing better, but for the life of me I don't get why Tocchet puts him out, sometimes with Hughes, in late game important shifts. His few good plays are many times overshaddowed by the few terrible plays and dumb penalties at the worst possible time.  Myers is the player I will have have the sweats going for every second he's on the ice in the playoffs. He can reverse momentum on a dime more than any other Canuck.

 

 

I am like yourself and pleasantly surprised by this season and hope for the best

 

I think on your coach comment

Tocchet (like every head coach stands behind his players on the bench) with two or three assistant coaches, one usually in charge of the forwards and one for the defenseman.

 

He relies on his coaches to pick the starting goalie, and help with the line up (he directs his coaches how he wants to play against a team and they provide Tocchet their feedback, and which players will be better suited to do that task and who is healthy, etc (watch a time out it is assistants directly the strategy)

 

The Head coach is like the GM of his coaching staff and works with his coaches discussing strategies, systems and line up (he isn't yelling out which forwards and defence to take the next shift) He is watching the players how they are performing and again discuss strategy with said assistants (or when said players returns to the bench after a shift and RT wants to coach or praise them on that shift) he is busy watching the game unfold and deciding what alterations need to be done, rather than calling out line changes and will have his coaches provide what he wants

 

He trusts his coaches to provide him what he wants, without making their jobs redundant or insignificant

Just like the management places accountability on the players, all the management follows that as well

 

I believe Tocchet has had talks with his defensive coach, results are not guaranteed being human and I am sure they point out their reasoning in making their choices (and why some assistants are eventually fired by the head coach)

[wai_lai416]

the biggest concern i have is it feels like the team play style have changed and they are putting extra focus on defence and right now playing not to lose rather than taking risk and playing to win.. i didn't feel we were bad defensively before the changes but now we are over focusing the defence to the point where we ain't scoring and have to grind out games. I liked the team playstyle more before they turned themselves into this grinder style of hockey.. sure defence wins championship.. but i rather them only play like that when we have the lead.. feels like they will only open it up and start playing desperate when they are down multiple goals or late in games

[IBatch]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

the biggest concern i have is it feels like the team play style have changed and they are putting extra focus on defence and right now playing not to lose rather than taking risk and playing to win.. i didn't feel we were bad defensively before the changes but now we are over focusing the defence to the point where we ain't scoring and have to grind out games. I liked the team playstyle more before they turned themselves into this grinder style of hockey.. sure defence wins championship.. but i rather them only play like that when we have the lead.. feels like they will only open it up and start playing desperate when they are down multiple goals or late in games

You can bet that the coaches have worked with the players to make sure De-Smith and Silvos get the help they need.    

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Great teams need great goaltending. The Canucks are a 0.500 team without Demko (6-5-2 since his latest injury)

 

I can only hope he makes a big difference when he returns. I'd like to see the team confidence go up, some swagger. Soucy has been a mistake machine lately, they need to get Juulsen back in the lineup

 

Hughes - Hronek

Zadorov - Myers

Cole - Juulsen

Soucy 

 

 

Lost count of how many games Vasilevsky stole during TB's 3 trips to the finals recently.   It was a lot.  

[IBatch]

15 hours ago, -AJ- said:

This might seem simplistic, but I literally think add Demko in and we go from 4 goals against a game down to about 2.5 and that alone is a huge difference maker. I think most complaints will fall away if we start winning due to the 1.5-goal difference.

Not oversimplified.   Funny, one of my Uncles pointed this out a week ago, that the Canucks are letting in at least one goal a game without Demko.   They also play  differently as a whole (not necessarily in a bad way).   That's to be expected with any team when their star starter is out.    

 

This teams going as far this post season as Demko takes us.   

Edited April 12 by IBatch

[Optimist Prime]

I love the Canucks. I think anyone expecting to win the Cup this year is putting way too much hopes on this young squad. The new era is just beginning, maybe we will see the 2nd round, a third round appearance would be amazing, if we get to the cup finals that will require so many of the little things to go right that it would amount to luck. Winning the cup is so dang hard that the Canucks have never done it it. My entire life, no cup. I am just really thrilled they are in the playoffs, where legit, anything can happen!

[Devron]

8 minutes ago, Optimist Prime said:

I love the Canucks. I think anyone expecting to win the Cup this year is putting way too much hopes on this young squad. The new era is just beginning, maybe we will see the 2nd round, a third round appearance would be amazing, if we get to the cup finals that will require so many of the little things to go right that it would amount to luck. Winning the cup is so dang hard that the Canucks have never done it it. My entire life, no cup. I am just really thrilled they are in the playoffs, where legit, anything can happen!

This

 

And we finally have a competitive team and can enjoy the playoffs. Start of something special.

 

Thats why I have no concerns. I think it’s ridiculous to be concerned or worried. Maybe in a couple years 

[Flipper]

13 hours ago, Hammertime said:

I feel like we are watching the pre season Canucks right now vs the regular season Canucks. 

 

To me it really seems like Toccet is trying some things out and trying styles and combinations that aren't necessarily our strengths but will be needed if we are going to go deep. 

 

I'm hoping that we will get back to playing a style that is more of a hybrid between Greens and Boudreau and we will see the offence return while also being able to hold a lead and slow a game down. I think the Minni 10-7 game was a game that changed how this team was coached. We can't do that. We need to control the pace and not get drawn into playing on another teams terms. 

This right here. They’ve been trying new things, line combinations and have been without their #1 goalie.
 

The lines will probably go back to where they were before the break, with some tweaks, so they can build consistency for the last few games going into the playoffs. The coaching staff was experimenting and tweaking, learning and developing, it will fall into place now and Demko will return to round things out. I think we’re going to see some great hockey in the playoffs. 

[erkayloomeh]

Expectations are funny thing. At the start of the season many of us thought we were a wild card team at best. 

The team has far exceeded that and now we will probably be disappointed with a first round exit. 

And it will truly be disappointing to see our boys get the boot in the first round.

For me anyway. 

[kilgore]

2 hours ago, Flipper said:

This right here. They’ve been trying new things, line combinations and have been without their #1 goalie.
 

The lines will probably go back to where they were before the break, with some tweaks, so they can build consistency for the last few games going into the playoffs. The coaching staff was experimenting and tweaking, learning and developing, it will fall into place now and Demko will return to round things out. I think we’re going to see some great hockey in the playoffs. 

 

Its good to have Lindholm back.  FINALLY...The experiments can stop. Rick can make some kind of final decisions on line makeups. And stick to that and practice and play the final games with those set combinations in order to lock in and gel to have a running start for the playoffs. 

 

I hope.

 

 

[bishopshodan]

It has to start somewhere, it had to start sometime
What better place than here? what better time than now?

All. hell. can't stop us now

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 hours ago, Devron said:

This

 

And we finally have a competitive team and can enjoy the playoffs. Start of something special.

 

Thats why I have no concerns. I think it’s ridiculous to be concerned or worried. Maybe in a couple years 

 

This on top of this! 

 

Especially the ridiculous part. 

[bishopshodan]

16 hours ago, Hammertime said:

To me it really seems like Toccet is trying some things out and trying styles and combinations that aren't necessarily our strengths but will be needed if we are going to go deep. 

 

...and BINGO was his name-o.

 

 

 

[Blue]

On 4/11/2024 at 10:05 AM, PureQuickness said:

I acknowledge that we as Canucks fans have a mosaic of opinions on the team's performances recently. Though I am fully aware that I've posted some more negative stuff recently, I also want to state that I have been very happy about the season, as a whole. That said, there are some disturbing issues about this team that I feel the team needs to fix QUICKLY if they hope not to be a first round exit.

 

 

 

Does every fan have to get their "first round exit" wise ass prediction in? uggh 

[spook007]

Don't quite get, why folks are worrying themselves with somethings they can not change... The roster is set... it is, what it is good or bad...

Join the fun of finally having play off hockey again. They may fold, and it all end in tears, but if so remember this is a learning process...

 

@stawns pointed it out a fair few months ago, that most teams need a few play offs before they become true contenders. So let them play instead of worrying about what happens next... enjoy the process... And if, just if, it all goes beyond our wildest dreams so be it, and if not, at least the team got a bit of experience...

 

We will need a lot of things to go right to make any noises, but at the same time, this team showed it can go toe to toe with anyone...

 

Its been a mixed bag since the ASG garbage... but @kilgore brought up a great point from D&D, that maybe just maybe being in the driver seat so long and knowing they clinched, have made them less hungry, while waiting for the play offs to start.

 

Boston got dumped in the 1st round last year, when everyone thought they'd win it...

 

Let just enjoy we have late season hockey to look forward to instead of only 2-3 months of draft discussions... 

 

Bring it on....

[kilgore]

25 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Don't quite get, why folks are worrying themselves with somethings they can not change... The roster is set... it is, what it is good or bad...

Join the fun of finally having play off hockey again. They may fold, and it all end in tears, but if so remember this is a learning process...

 

@stawns pointed it out a fair few months ago, that most teams need a few play offs before they become true contenders. So let them play instead of worrying about what happens next... enjoy the process... And if, just if, it all goes beyond our wildest dreams so be it, and if not, at least the team got a bit of experience...

 

We will need a lot of things to go right to make any noises, but at the same time, this team showed it can go toe to toe with anyone...

 

Its been a mixed bag since the ASG garbage... but @kilgore brought up a great point from D&D, that maybe just maybe being in the driver seat so long and knowing they clinched, have made them less hungry, while waiting for the play offs to start.

 

Boston got dumped in the 1st round last year, when everyone thought they'd win it...

 

Let just enjoy we have late season hockey to look forward to instead of only 2-3 months of draft discussions... 

 

Bring it on....

 

Agreed.

 

I want to see what this team can do, no matter how far that is.  Hopefully not 4 and out, but I'll deal with the emotional hit after that happens. Just playoff experience and getting a taste of the possibility of greatness is a huge step forward. To set the table for the next few years.

 

The only caveat I will add is....

Please no significant injury problems where we have no comparable replacement.  Secondary, I have to add based on history, no terrible reffing calls, like bogus suspensions that take out a player. I want to see our best against others best. 

Reason being this team has zero depth.  It is a price we paid to rush a retool onto a team that was mismanaged for almost a decade.  Everything has to go right, as JR said.  That said...

 

I BELIEVE!  Go Canucks Go!

 

 

Edited April 12 by kilgore

[bh90]

On 4/11/2024 at 9:30 AM, Bob Long said:

@PureQuickness your assessment of Lindy isn't fair in the least. He's been injured. If he's back, healthy and playing like last night he'll be a key player in round 1. 

 

Watching Lindholm in person vs. the Coyotes was a treat.

 

the guys positioning and anticipation is off the chart. There's lots the camera doesn't pick up in my opinion

 

i know he was a -2 but in the defensive zone he always stood out and for good reasons. 

 

Preventing goals is just as valuable than scoring goals if you ask me come playoff time.

[PureQuickness]

17 minutes ago, bh90 said:

 

Watching Lindholm in person vs. the Coyotes was a treat.

 

the guys positioning and anticipation is off the chart. There's lots the camera doesn't pick up in my opinion

 

i know he was a -2 but in the defensive zone he always stood out and for good reasons. 

 

Preventing goals is just as valuable than scoring goals if you ask me come playoff time.

 

On the other hand, stats don't lie. They can be manipulated, surely, but that's why we have to assess what the stats mean. Does -2 mean he sucks defensively? By itself without any context, yes. But it doesn't explain whether his deployment was ESPECIALLY difficult - nor does it say he is effective.

 

And keep in mind, defending well against a bottom feeding team is HARDLY worthy of praise. It is promising especially his injury, but we need to see more before we can fully assess him. I've been pretty frustrated with his performance and his fit on the team. We just can't lie to ourselves.

[PureQuickness]

56 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Does every fan have to get their "first round exit" wise ass prediction in? uggh 

 

It's not a prediction. I don't want to be right, but I don't want to lie to myself. I'll be over the moon if we do very well in the playoffs. I DO NOT want us to be like the Leafs. So no, my post was not intended to be a prediction at all.

[bh90]

17 minutes ago, PureQuickness said:

 

On the other hand, stats don't lie. They can be manipulated, surely, but that's why we have to assess what the stats mean. Does -2 mean he sucks defensively? By itself without any context, yes. But it doesn't explain whether his deployment was ESPECIALLY difficult - nor does it say he is effective.

 

And keep in mind, defending well against a bottom feeding team is HARDLY worthy of praise. It is promising especially his injury, but we need to see more before we can fully assess him. I've been pretty frustrated with his performance and his fit on the team. We just can't lie to ourselves.

 well yes context and watching the game is important when analyzing stats

 

the first goal he was on against, the canucks were on a line change. Lindholm was up on Coyotes' blue line forechecking and he had no involvement in the play coming back the other way and Silvos literally standing while the puck went by him because he lost the puck

 

On the second goal he was on the ice at the Canucks blue line  with Hughes ready to move it out. Hughes gave the puck away and Coyotes scored from up close with Lindholm still at the blue line.

 

none of the goals against did he do anything wrong he just happened to be on the ice when his team mates dropped the ball.

 

He played ana amazing game ... but, this is a team game

[The Duke]

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

Don't quite get, why folks are worrying themselves with somethings they can not change... The roster is set... it is, what it is good or bad...

Join the fun of finally having play off hockey again. They may fold, and it all end in tears, but if so remember this is a learning process...

 

@stawns pointed it out a fair few months ago, that most teams need a few play offs before they become true contenders. So let them play instead of worrying about what happens next... enjoy the process... And if, just if, it all goes beyond our wildest dreams so be it, and if not, at least the team got a bit of experience...

 

We will need a lot of things to go right to make any noises, but at the same time, this team showed it can go toe to toe with anyone...

 

Its been a mixed bag since the ASG garbage... but @kilgore brought up a great point from D&D, that maybe just maybe being in the driver seat so long and knowing they clinched, have made them less hungry, while waiting for the play offs to start.

 

Boston got dumped in the 1st round last year, when everyone thought they'd win it...

 

Let just enjoy we have late season hockey to look forward to instead of only 2-3 months of draft discussions... 

 

Bring it on....

That’s the part of the “concerns” posts that I don’t understand.  Like we’re all sitting around a boardroom table listening to this list with the ability to do anything.  We could lose in 4 straight and it’s still an improvement over the past few seasons.  And while I highly doubt that will happen, the core is still young enough that they can learn from it.  Just enjoy the ride.