[Report] Canucks re-sign Pettersson to 8 year contract @ $11.6M

[IBatch]

7 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

not everybody but there's quite a few "fans" calling for him to be traded if he won't negotiate.. but i still think the biggest mistake is taking away a legit top 6 forward and replaced it with another 3rd/4th liner.. i mean you can say kuzmenko for lindholm is a top 6 for a top 6.. but RT refuses to play lindholm in a top 6 role.. lindholm prolly played 4 total games since the trade in the top 2 lines and then never again.. i think the biggest fail for the management is not able to negotiate any retention in zadorov or lindholm or find a 3rd party to take a portion of it.. and then after a month of lindholm when he's playing on the 3rd line it's clear we need a top 6 winger but we ended up doing nothing coz we have 0 cap.. you take away from EP and get him nothing back in return and no surprise he struggled hard since the trade.. the canucks used to have 4 4.5 top 6 forwards.. now they have 3.5 with 2 of them on the same line. hoglander to me is a .5 coz he's either really noticeable or he's invisible there's like no inbetween with him.

How do you explain, EPs ability to score playing with Goldobin then?   That's a career AHLer, and that's when EP was just getting his feet wet.   Or how Hogs was on a 20 goal plus pace, on the fourth line or playing 10-11 minutes a night.    He's made some crazy skilled plays this year (Hogs).   Or how Kuzmenko's production went way up after not playing with EP this year?   Sure some is systems.    There is zero evidence in EPs past, that goes against his ability to produce with middling to AHL level talent.     When EP played with Hogs and Podz a couple years ago, for a set of games, it turned out to be our best combo.    Podz went to the AHL, Hogs declined. 

 

Would understand a drop in production, but it's not like EPs never been in this situation before either.   

 

Do think there is merit in moving Lindholm onto EPs line and getting him out of the dot and moving him to the wing against NSH.    Mostly because Bluegar did great with Garland and Dakota.    Tochetts mindset is waves of lines that can score, and that his "non" negotiable's were definitely negotiable working with Kuzmenko for months trying to get him to back-check and play with a tiny bit of contact.    

 

Hopefully we see an adjustment tonight that pays dividends.    

[wai_lai416]

3 hours ago, IBatch said:

How do you explain, EPs ability to score playing with Goldobin then?   That's a career AHLer, and that's when EP was just getting his feet wet.   Or how Hogs was on a 20 goal plus pace, on the fourth line or playing 10-11 minutes a night.    He's made some crazy skilled plays this year (Hogs).   Or how Kuzmenko's production went way up after not playing with EP this year?   Sure some is systems.    There is zero evidence in EPs past, that goes against his ability to produce with middling to AHL level talent.     When EP played with Hogs and Podz a couple years ago, for a set of games, it turned out to be our best combo.    Podz went to the AHL, Hogs declined. 

 

Would understand a drop in production, but it's not like EPs never been in this situation before either.   

 

Do think there is merit in moving Lindholm onto EPs line and getting him out of the dot and moving him to the wing against NSH.    Mostly because Bluegar did great with Garland and Dakota.    Tochetts mindset is waves of lines that can score, and that his "non" negotiable's were definitely negotiable working with Kuzmenko for months trying to get him to back-check and play with a tiny bit of contact.    

 

Hopefully we see an adjustment tonight that pays dividends.    

Like I said he needs to play with a high offensive awareness iq playmaker. Goldobin in his only year as a semi regular already have more assist than any of the wingers ep played with this year even boeser is a better passer than any of the current wingers ep play with. At the end of the day with kuzmenko his line last season is scoring more than they give up 5v5. This year he was on pace for the same amount of goals against but his offence fell off a cliff because tocchet wants him to be a 2 way forward. I honestly have no issue with kuzmenko as long as they score more than they give up tbh. Not everyone can be a 2 way defensive player. If mcdavid or drai plays for RT is he going to bench or put them in a press box for not back checking? But whatever kuz for lindholm I have no issue with at the time. The only issue i have is after it’s very apparent RT will never play lindholm in the top 6 after a month they did nothing to address a big glaring hole in the lineup.. they subtracted a top an area of weakness and added nothing to fix it. I don’t even think mcdavid can save mikheyev. Hyman is good at what he does stand next to the goalie and put his stick down. Mikheyev can’t even do that 

[Coconuts]

15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

MacKinnon has been in the league 11 years.  Petey only 6.  MacKinnon's best year just happened at age 29.  So we need to give Petey some time to catch up.  He may never score 140 points, but I would wager he gets back to being a 100+ point player as early as next season.  

 

Plus, he doesn't have a Mikko Rantanen by his side.  Lekkerimaki could be that guy.  If you put a top flight winger on Petey's line, that could be the tipping point for him to become a truly elite player.

 

Also, Petey is a better defensive centre than MacKinnon and is now clearly better on draws too.  Petey is now almost at 51% in the faceoff circle, so he has clearly improved on that this season.  Plus, he is much more engaged physically with 125 hits this year.

 

We have Miller who can also score 100 points, so Petey can be the Pavel Datsyuk of the team.  That was my comparison of him from the very beginning.  A 100 point centre who can win the Selke.  I still think he will accomplish this...

 

I feel like the post you quoted addresses a lot of what you went on to say. Yes, Mac has been around longer, I pointed this out, but he stepped in younger and the age difference is just over four years. 

 

I said in my post that reasonable expectations are probably between 90-110 points. 

 

Can't lay it all at Rantanen's feet, although he is a factor, because Rantanen has absolutely been a benefactor as well. It's not shocking that 1OA pick developed into a top of the league sort of player. Rantanen actually benefits a lot from MacKinnon's game, Mac's ability to barrel around the way he does, and his willingness to engage from inside the perimeter, opens up a lot for other Avs forwards. McDavid is the only other guy who possesses the combination of such dynamic speed and skill, but MacKinnon utilizes it more aggressively imo, he's much more of a power forward than McDavid.

 

This video breaks things down pretty well.

 

 

 

Pettersson's already an elite player, 89 points being considered an off season demonstrates that. I just don't believe he's in Mac's tier. Maybe someday he gets there, but as of right now he's not. 

 

As for faceoffs, neither of them have ever been overly strong in the dot. Nate's regular season average is 45.78% whereas Pettersson's is 45.14%. This season Petterson averaged 50.81% while Mac averaged 46.19%, time but this season was also Petterson's first time having an average higher than 45% so time well tell whether this should be considered a new norm or not. 

 

Regarding hits, Pettersson absolutely hit more than Mac, who has never been much of a hitter. This is admirable considering Pettersson isn't a hefty guy for his size. But this doesn't mean that MacKinnon doesn't play a physical game, if you watch Mac play you'll find that he's physically engaged and this contributes to teams not being able to shut him down by trying to play him physically. He's not a player who will vanish when teams try to bully him. 

 

We have Miller who can do that now, but for how long remains to be seen. Whether Pettersson ends up actually being a Datsyuck level player remains to be seen, but he's got the skill set to do it. Dunno, I thought I was quite complimentary of Pettersson in my original post. Saying Pettersson isn't in MacKinnon's bracket isn't an insult, almost nobody is right now, doesn't mean I don't think Pettersson is a valuable player. 

 

But at the end of the day they're very different players, we'll see how things go as Petterson's career continues and Mac's winds down. As of right now I'd say Hughes is the Canucks MacKinnon equivalent, they're both the players who stir the drink for their teams and arguably each team's most dynamic player.

Edited May 3 by Coconuts

[-Buzzsaw-]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:13 AM, IBatch said:

How do you explain, EPs ability to score playing with Goldobin then?   That's a career AHLer, and that's when EP was just getting his feet wet.   Or how Hogs was on a 20 goal plus pace, on the fourth line or playing 10-11 minutes a night.    He's made some crazy skilled plays this year (Hogs).   Or how Kuzmenko's production went way up after not playing with EP this year?   Sure some is systems.    There is zero evidence in EPs past, that goes against his ability to produce with middling to AHL level talent.     When EP played with Hogs and Podz a couple years ago, for a set of games, it turned out to be our best combo.    Podz went to the AHL, Hogs declined. 

 

Would understand a drop in production, but it's not like EPs never been in this situation before either.   

 

Do think there is merit in moving Lindholm onto EPs line and getting him out of the dot and moving him to the wing against NSH.    Mostly because Bluegar did great with Garland and Dakota.    Tochetts mindset is waves of lines that can score, and that his "non" negotiable's were definitely negotiable working with Kuzmenko for months trying to get him to back-check and play with a tiny bit of contact.    

 

Hopefully we see an adjustment tonight that pays dividends.    

Get your facts straight.

 

- Hogs got his 20 + goals because he was on a line with Pettersson.  He can put the puck in the net.  But he is not a passer or a playmaker... look at his assist totals.

 

- And Kuzmenko's production did not go up after he was removed from Pettersson's line and put on the 3rd and 4th lines, it went to nearly zero.  AFTER he was traded to Calgary and AFTER Kuz was put with Calgary top six players, his production went back up.

 

- Hoglander did not decline to go to Abby... he played there nearly all last season.

 

- In fact Podkolzin would be a potentially good addition to Pettersson's line, since he can pass and make plays... better than Mikheyev.  Mikheyev used to be good for scoring on breakaways with his speed, but he lost that when he didn't fully recover from his injuries in Toronto.  Mikheyev has hands of stone around the net... if you don't give him a wide open tap in, he's not going to score.  At least Hoglander can take the puck to the net and he does have a good shot... just that passing isn't in his vocabulary.  But what is needed on Pettersson's line is an experienced top six player... like Lindholm... Garland would do in a pinch, but that would break up the Garland/Joshua/Blueger line... which should be back together. 

 

All in all, the obvious solution is to put Lindholm and Pettersson together.

[-Buzzsaw-]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:51 AM, Coconuts said:

 

I feel like the post you quoted addresses a lot of what you went on to say. Yes, Mac has been around longer, I pointed this out, but he stepped in younger and the age difference is just over four years. 

 

I said in my post that reasonable expectations are probably between 90-110 points. 

 

Can't lay it all at Rantanen's feet, although he is a factor, because Rantanen has absolutely been a benefactor as well. It's not shocking that 1OA pick developed into a top of the league sort of player. Rantanen actually benefits a lot from MacKinnon's game, Mac's ability to barrel around the way he does, and his willingness to engage from inside the perimeter, opens up a lot for other Avs forwards. McDavid is the only other guy who possesses the combination of such dynamic speed and skill, but MacKinnon utilizes it more aggressively imo, he's much more of a power forward than McDavid.

 

This video breaks things down pretty well.

 

 

 

Pettersson's already an elite player, 89 points being considered an off season demonstrates that. I just don't believe he's in Mac's tier. Maybe someday he gets there, but as of right now he's not. 

 

As for faceoffs, neither of them have ever been overly strong in the dot. Nate's regular season average is 45.78% whereas Pettersson's is 45.14%. This season Petterson averaged 50.81% while Mac averaged 46.19%, time but this season was also Petterson's first time having an average higher than 45% so time well tell whether this should be considered a new norm or not. 

 

Regarding hits, Pettersson absolutely hit more than Mac, who has never been much of a hitter. This is admirable considering Pettersson isn't a hefty guy for his size. But this doesn't mean that MacKinnon doesn't play a physical game, if you watch Mac play you'll find that he's physically engaged and this contributes to teams not being able to shut him down by trying to play him physically. He's not a player who will vanish when teams try to bully him. 

 

We have Miller who can do that now, but for how long remains to be seen. Whether Pettersson ends up actually being a Datsyuck level player remains to be seen, but he's got the skill set to do it. Dunno, I thought I was quite complimentary of Pettersson in my original post. Saying Pettersson isn't in MacKinnon's bracket isn't an insult, almost nobody is right now, doesn't mean I don't think Pettersson is a valuable player. 

 

But at the end of the day they're very different players, we'll see how things go as Petterson's career continues and Mac's winds down. As of right now I'd say Hughes is the Canucks MacKinnon equivalent, they're both the players who stir the drink for their teams and arguably each team's most dynamic player.

Pettersson is not the player MacKinnon is, neither will he be.... he just doesn't have the raw power, acceleration, or speed.

 

Pettersson is a passer/playmaker, who has an elite shot.  But he can't go through an opposing team with speed speed and power.  Pettersson can deke players on occasion, and use space, but he doesn't have the ability to accelerate into space and leave defenders behind the way MacKinnon can.

 

Pettersson needs a linemate who can give and go, and exchange the puck with him... and that person needs to be a shooter too.  That player doesn't need to be a superstar, but he does need to have a high level of skill.  Brock Boeser could be that player... but when you put Boeser with Pettersson, then Miller doesn't have a partner.

 

Kuzmenko was that player, but obviously he didn't fit Tocchet's requirements for defensive play.  Personally I think the Canucks should have been more patient... Kuzzy is a smart player, and he would have adapted to Tocchet's system eventually, but they elected to go with Lindholm. 

 

But why spend all those assets on acquiring Lindholm, and then put him on the third line???

 

Unless Tocchet actually has an unconscious/conscious bias against Pettersson... (he is not at all Tocchet's style of player... just like Kuzmenko wasn't) and wants the Canucks' third line, Lindholm/Garland/Joshua, to be the new 2nd line... with Pettersson relegated to the third?  In fact that seems to be becoming the case... If you look at ice time in game 6, the 'Third Line' actually had more ice time than Pettersson's line.  Pettersson only had 15:46 of time, compared to LIndholm with 18:30, Joshua with 17:26 and Garland with 16:19.

 

Which is completely crazy...  relegating a 100 point player to the third line and third line ice time makes no sense at all.

 

But in my opinion, a lot of what Tocchet did in the Preds series didn't make sense... playing a defensive series, when the Canucks have much more offensive assets doesn't seem a good idea... and the shot totals prove it.  Canucks were very fortunate to win the series... thanks to a couple late game miracles, but needing last second miracles don't mean the coach is doing a good job... it means the opposite.

 

I am hoping Tocchet re-thinks his coaching and lineup for the Oiler series... and the weird dynamic we are currently seeing... where one of the league's best offensive teams gets coached into a defensive shell... doesn't get repeated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 5 by -Buzzsaw-

[thesauce]

15 hours ago, -Buzzsaw- said:

Pettersson is not the player MacKinnon is, neither will he be.... he just doesn't have the raw power, acceleration, or speed.

 

Pettersson is a passer/playmaker, who has an elite shot.  But he can't go through an opposing team with speed speed and power.  Pettersson can deke players on occasion, and use space, but he doesn't have the ability to accelerate into space and leave defenders behind the way MacKinnon can.

 

Pettersson needs a linemate who can give and go, and exchange the puck with him... and that person needs to be a shooter too.  That player doesn't need to be a superstar, but he does need to have a high level of skill.  Brock Boeser could be that player... but when you put Boeser with Pettersson, then Miller doesn't have a partner.

 

Kuzmenko was that player, but obviously he didn't fit Tocchet's requirements for defensive play.  Personally I think the Canucks should have been more patient... Kuzzy is a smart player, and he would have adapted to Tocchet's system eventually, but they elected to go with Lindholm. 

 

But why spend all those assets on acquiring Lindholm, and then put him on the third line???

 

Unless Tocchet actually has an unconscious/conscious bias against Pettersson... (he is not at all Tocchet's style of player... just like Kuzmenko wasn't) and wants the Canucks' third line, Lindholm/Garland/Joshua, to be the new 2nd line... with Pettersson relegated to the third?  In fact that seems to be becoming the case... If you look at ice time in game 6, the 'Third Line' actually had more ice time than Pettersson's line.  Pettersson only had 15:46 of time, compared to LIndholm with 18:30, Joshua with 17:26 and Garland with 16:19.

 

Which is completely crazy...  relegating a 100 point player to the third line and third line ice time makes no sense at all.

 

But in my opinion, a lot of what Tocchet did in the Preds series didn't make sense... playing a defensive series, when the Canucks have much more offensive assets doesn't seem a good idea... and the shot totals prove it.  Canucks were very fortunate to win the series... thanks to a couple late game miracles, but needing last second miracles don't mean the coach is doing a good job... it means the opposite.

 

I am hoping Tocchet re-thinks his coaching and lineup for the Oiler series... and the weird dynamic we are currently seeing... where one of the league's best offensive teams gets coached into a defensive shell... doesn't get repeated.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said in the first half of your post. Petey definitely isn't the same caliber as Mackinnon (only other player in that realm is McDavid). 

 

Yes Petey's line has gone down in minutes, but it also makes sense when you look at strategy and deployment. The third line has been shutting teams down while being able to produce. In the playoffs, you don't really get the luxury to wait for guys to get going. If you're not going to produce, you can expect your minutes to get peeled back. 

 

In regards to strategy, playing defensively was definitely the right move. As great of a story Silovs and to a lesser extent, DeSmith, the team had to adjust their play to limit scoring chances. Without that defensive structure, Silovs would've been blown out no doubt. The regular season LA Kings shutdown play has shown to be effective against Vancouver and there is 0 chance Nashville wasn't aware of that. Instead of trading chances, playing the same but better game was definitely the right choice tactically. 

 

No doubt, Toc will come out with a different strategy against the Oilers. 

[Drakrami]

On 5/3/2024 at 9:38 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

MacKinnon has been in the league 11 years.  Petey only 6.  MacKinnon's best year just happened at age 29.  So we need to give Petey some time to catch up.  He may never score 140 points, but I would wager he gets back to being a 100+ point player as early as next season.  

 

Plus, he doesn't have a Mikko Rantanen by his side.  Lekkerimaki could be that guy.  If you put a top flight winger on Petey's line, that could be the tipping point for him to become a truly elite player.

 

Also, Petey is a better defensive centre than MacKinnon and is now clearly better on draws too.  Petey is now almost at 51% in the faceoff circle, so he has clearly improved on that this season.  Plus, he is much more engaged physically with 125 hits this year.

 

We have Miller who can also score 100 points, so Petey can be the Pavel Datsyuk of the team.  That was my comparison of him from the very beginning.  A 100 point centre who can win the Selke.  I still think he will accomplish this...

I understand you realize Pettersson will never catch up in offensive point total with the best of the best in the league (MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl). But in order to achieve your goal of still pitting Pettersson as one of the best players in the league, you switched the perspective and angled Pettersson as a defensive steward which is a harder aspect to grasp with no stand out stats to compare. 

 

Instead of thinking Pettersson as some top of the league player (MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl). Why don't you just accept Petterson is more like Marner, Aho, it will be much easier for you. 

[BPA]

I wonder what it would take to pry Nylander from TO.  He would be an awesome linemate for EP.

 

Run combos of Miller + Boeser and EP + Nylander.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Drakrami said:

I understand you realize Pettersson will never catch up in offensive point total with the best of the best in the league (MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl). But in order to achieve your goal of still pitting Pettersson as one of the best players in the league, you switched the perspective and angled Pettersson as a defensive steward which is a harder aspect to grasp with no stand out stats to compare. 

 

Instead of thinking Pettersson as some top of the league player (MacKinnon, McDavid, Draisaitl). Why don't you just accept Petterson is more like Marner, Aho, it will be much easier for you. 

 

My comparable to Petey from the very beginning was Pavel Datsyuk. You should check the old CDC site for confirmation on that.

 

I never said Petey was the same as McDavid or MacKinnon in terms of pure offence. However, he is better than both of them in other areas of the game, defensively, faceoffs and physicality.  Hockey isn’t all about points.  When Petey gets back to his normal self he will be a top 5 centre in the NHL and will be a Selke finalist real soon.

 

As for Draisaitl, Miller has already passed him as a complete player.  Offensively, they are almost identical, but in every other aspect Miller is superior to Draisaitl.  Petey will also get to that point where he is better than Draisaitl.  

[Hammertime]

On 5/3/2024 at 6:13 AM, IBatch said:

How do you explain, EPs ability to score playing with Goldobin then?   That's a career AHLer, and that's when EP was just getting his feet wet.

Like sure EP will score with those guys his stats will be better. Will the team be?

[43isprime]

Pettersson now has 74 points in his last 82 games.

[PureQuickness]

I've been critical of Pettersson, but he is elevating his play a little bit. I sure hope he gets better and turns into beast mode Boeser. Lindholm has been a fantastic pick-up and this is coming from someone who had been wrong about Lindholm, starting from when he is having a beast of a playoff.

[43isprime]

1 hour ago, PureQuickness said:

I've been critical of Pettersson, but he is elevating his play a little bit. I sure hope he gets better and turns into beast mode Boeser. Lindholm has been a fantastic pick-up and this is coming from someone who had been wrong about Lindholm, starting from when he is having a beast of a playoff.

 

Slowly elevating his game might be okay at the start of the regular season, but this is the playoffs. You're expected to be in top gear in Game 1 of Round 1.

[Drakrami]

On 5/6/2024 at 10:13 AM, Elias Pettersson said:

 

My comparable to Petey from the very beginning was Pavel Datsyuk. You should check the old CDC site for confirmation on that.

 

I never said Petey was the same as McDavid or MacKinnon in terms of pure offence. However, he is better than both of them in other areas of the game, defensively, faceoffs and physicality.  Hockey isn’t all about points.  When Petey gets back to his normal self he will be a top 5 centre in the NHL and will be a Selke finalist real soon.

 

As for Draisaitl, Miller has already passed him as a complete player.  Offensively, they are almost identical, but in every other aspect Miller is superior to Draisaitl.  Petey will also get to that point where he is better than Draisaitl.  

Why would you make delusional comparsions? Datsyuk is a legend, skill master, admired around the league. 

 

Of course you can't say Pettersson is the same as McDavid MacKinnon etc.. they are not in the same tier. Pettersson literally should not be in the same sentence in a comparison discussion. Firstly points-wise, they can be 50+ points above Pettersson's production. Secondly, on the ice, these superstars are dangerous every shift, you see we need to put an all-out team effort to "contain" McDavid/Draisaitl. No team needs that kind of effort to contain Pettersson. 

 

Miller is not better than Draisaitl. You are being delusional again. Love Miller's play, with his play the last 2 years he is in my books a top 15 forward in the NHL. Just be real. If Miller and Draisaitl hit the trade market, Draisaitl will at least fetch 2 more 1st rounders than Miller. That is how the league views both players. 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, Drakrami said:

Why would you make delusional comparsions? Datsyuk is a legend, skill master, admired around the league. 

 

Of course you can't say Pettersson is the same as McDavid MacKinnon etc.. they are not in the same tier. Pettersson literally should not be in the same sentence in a comparison discussion. Firstly points-wise, they can be 50+ points above Pettersson's production. Secondly, on the ice, these superstars are dangerous every shift, you see we need to put an all-out team effort to "contain" McDavid/Draisaitl. No team needs that kind of effort to contain Pettersson. 

 

Miller is not better than Draisaitl. You are being delusional again. Love Miller's play, with his play the last 2 years he is in my books a top 15 forward in the NHL. Just be real. If Miller and Draisaitl hit the trade market, Draisaitl will at least fetch 2 more 1st rounders than Miller. That is how the league views both players. 

Here we go with the shitting on Petey. Of course you have to quote me from 10 days ago. What exactly are you trying to prove here?

 

Pavel Datsyuk didn’t do fuck all in his career until he was in his late 20’s. Heck, he never even got a single Selke vote until he was 28. And didn’t win the award until he was 29. Never even hit 100 points ever. 
 

Petey already is a 100 point player at age 24 and already finished 7th in Selke voting at age 24. At age 25 he might even finish higher. 
 

So don’t @ me with your bullshit that my comparison is delusional. Datsyuk was literally a 6th round pick. He was a late bloomer. He wasn’t a star like Petey right out of the gate. Petey won the Calder trophy, so he was already elite at age 21.  Datsyuk wasn’t even in the NHL until age 23. 
 

I’m not even going to waste time with this anymore until next season. Petey is clearly in a slump or maybe even injured, so not going to play your games here until he’s back to 100%. 
 

As for Miller, he was a stud all year. Had a better regular season than Draisaitl overall. During the season yes he was better than Draisaitl. Draisaitl can’t even kill a fucking penalty to save his life. Can’t make a hit to save his life. Could never drop the gloves and stick up for his teammates. Ever. 
 

So I don’t really care what Dry Saddle would ever get in a trade. Miller at $8 million is a steal. One of the best value contracts in the NHL. He’s ours and I love the guy. Don’t give a shit about any Oilers player. They are all pieces of shit and aren’t worthy of being talked about around here. 

[Sell.the.team]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Here we go with the shitting on Petey. Of course you have to quote me from 10 days ago. What exactly are you trying to prove here?

 

Pavel Datsyuk didn’t do fuck all in his career until he was in his late 20’s. Heck, he never even got a single Selke vote until he was 28. And didn’t win the award until he was 29. Never even hit 100 points ever. 
 

Petey already is a 100 point player at age 24 and already finished 7th in Selke voting at age 24. At age 25 he might even finish higher. 
 

So don’t @ me with your bullshit that my comparison is delusional. Datsyuk was literally a 6th round pick. He was a late bloomer. He wasn’t a star like Petey right out of the gate. Petey won the Calder trophy, so he was already elite at age 21.  Datsyuk wasn’t even in the NHL until age 23. 
 

I’m not even going to waste time with this anymore until next season. Petey is clearly in a slump or maybe even injured, so not going to play your games here until he’s back to 100%. 
 

As for Miller, he was a stud all year. Had a better regular season than Draisaitl overall. During the season yes he was better than Draisaitl. Draisaitl can’t even kill a fucking penalty to save his life. Can’t make a hit to save his life. Could never drop the gloves and stick up for his teammates. Ever. 
 

So I don’t really care what Dry Saddle would ever get in a trade. Miller at $8 million is a steal. One of the best value contracts in the NHL. He’s ours and I love the guy. Don’t give a shit about any Oilers player. They are all pieces of shit and aren’t worthy of being talked about around here. 

 

Don't even bother.  Canucks fans are very forgetful.  They forgot about Miller when he was having a down year last year.  They forgot about Boeser when he had several down years.  They forgot about Connor Garland when he was relegated to the 4th line and not given any ice time at all.  Players go through slumps and generally come out of it just fine.  It would be one thing if he was 33 but the dude is 25.  He hasn't even acquired his man strength yet.

 

Petey will be fine.  Why he isn't playing with better players is beyond me.  Mikheyev and Hoglander are by no means lost causes...but when their offense isnt there they should perfectly be suited to play as energy guys on a 3rd line with Suter or Blueger.  

Edited Wednesday at 07:31 PM by Sell.the.team

[PhillipBlunt]

24 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

Don't even bother.  Canucks fans are very forgetful.  They forgot about Miller when he was having a down year last year.  They forgot about Boeser when he had several down years.  They forgot about Connor Garland when he was relegated to the 4th line and not given any ice time at all.

Yet all three of those players are giving it their all when it matters most. In the playoffs. Pettersson is a ghost out there. Simple as that. This guy stated that he wanted to be on a good team that wanted to win, not even a year ago, and now the team he’s on is in the 2nd round of the playoffs and he’s near invisible. 

 

[Sell.the.team]

2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Yet all three of those players are giving it their all when it matters most. In the playoffs. Pettersson is a ghost out there. Simple as that. This guy stated that he wanted to be on a good team that wanted to win, not even a year ago, and now the team he’s on is in the 2nd round of the playoffs and he’s near invisible. 

 

 

He's struggling no doubt.  Whether injury or psychological (I suspect the latter).  He needs to play better and ASAP.  But I am not sure how relegating him to (effectively) the 3rd line with 2 other guys who have done sweet F all these playoffs is going to help this team win the cup this year.  We are relatively close to round 3.  We ain't getting past Dallas / Colorado unless Petey somehow figures it out. 

 

We have some good options to play Petey with but I personally feel that Mik and Hoglander ain't it right now.  I am also confused what exactly has Pius Suter done to warrant first line minutes?  He has had a few nice plays these playoffs, but at the end of the day he has 3 pts in 10 games playing on the top line with Miller and Boeser.  That is not exactly earth shattering production.  Similar story in the regular season.

 

If Petey continues to struggle and we bow out this series, I have no doubt there wouldn't be a ton of interest in his contract... his trade value is at an all time low right now, I don't deny it.  But to think he is a lost cause and will be for the next 7 years is foolish.  He will be back... make no bones about it.  It's shitty he's struggling right now, horrible timing.  But the guy can play hockey and he will get over this slump, whatever the cause.

 

The lotto line looked really good earlier this year and we were winning hockey games.  At some point Toch inexplicably (IMO) split them up.  Yea, they have played together a bit in the playoffs, but I believe they need more ice time.

[PhillipBlunt]

5 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

 

He's struggling no doubt.  Whether injury or psychological (I suspect the latter).  He needs to play better and ASAP.  But I am not sure how relegating him to (effectively) the 3rd line with 2 other guys who have done sweet F all these playoffs is going to help this team win the cup this year.  We are relatively close to round 3.  We ain't getting past Dallas / Colorado unless Petey somehow figures it out. 

 

We have some good options to play Petey with but I personally feel that Mik and Hoglander ain't it right now.  I am also confused what exactly has Pius Suter done to warrant first line minutes?  He has had a few nice plays these playoffs, but at the end of the day he has 3 pts in 10 games playing on the top line with Miller and Boeser.  That is not exactly earth shattering production.  Similar story in the regular season.

 

If Petey continues to struggle and we bow out this series, I have no doubt there wouldn't be a ton of interest in his contract... his trade value is at an all time low right now, I don't deny it.  But to think he is a lost cause and will be for the next 7 years is foolish.  He will be back... make no bones about it.  It's shitty he's struggling right now, horrible timing.  But the guy can play hockey and he will get over this slump, whatever the cause.

 

The lotto line looked really good earlier this year and we were winning hockey games.  At some point Toch inexplicably (IMO) split them up.  Yea, they have played together a bit in the playoffs, but I believe they need more ice time.

Where did I say he’s a lost cause and will be for 7 years? He’s not worth his salary now, and definitely not worth the salary he’ll get for next season. He’s been reliable defensively, but near invisible offensively. 
 

He needs to get going. Regardless of linemates. Yes, Lafferty and Mikeyev are not very good and hopefully Mikeyev is traded in the off season, but I’d be willing to wager that putting Pettersson with Miller and Boeser won’t have a huge impact on his game. He has to be better. A lot better. 
 

If he can’t bring it this post season, there is something serious wrong with the guy. He was the one who fired the shot off of the bow with the “I want to play for a winning team” statement. Well, the team has been eons better than it was last year, and he’s failed to rise to the challenge. 

[Bobby James]

I have felt this since the first couple games of the playoffs, I think Petey needs the offseason to get his head (and potentially injuries) corrected. 

 

It would be wonderful to have him suddenly appear again as his usual self, but I think he's struggling and working through things and that takes time and effort to correct. Of course it is unfortunate timing for this to happen, but these are just young adults at the end of the day and they will have big ups and downs. Look at Boeser from last season to now as an example of what work away from the rink can do for a person. Or Miller when he was Petey's age to now. What a journey that guy has gone on to become the player (and person) he is today. 

 

The fanbase needs to chill on Petey and let the other stars of the team lead the way for this run. I know, we all know, it sucks he isn't going right now, but constantly bashing him and calling for trades (not referring to just this forum) is not doing any good at all and is likely adding to the issue. 

Edited Wednesday at 08:25 PM by Bobby James

[Sell.the.team]

20 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

Where did I say he’s a lost cause and will be for 7 years? He’s not worth his salary now, and definitely not worth the salary he’ll get for next season. He’s been reliable defensively, but near invisible offensively. 
 

He needs to get going. Regardless of linemates. Yes, Lafferty and Mikeyev are not very good and hopefully Mikeyev is traded in the off season, but I’d be willing to wager that putting Pettersson with Miller and Boeser won’t have a huge impact on his game. He has to be better. A lot better. 
 

If he can’t bring it this post season, there is something serious wrong with the guy. He was the one who fired the shot off of the bow with the “I want to play for a winning team” statement. Well, the team has been eons better than it was last year, and he’s failed to rise to the challenge. 

 

You didn't say that... I was more so responding to the general sentiment in the thread and comments I've read on twitter.  Read someone comparing Petey's contract to Nurse and Huberdeau earlier today.

 

I think at this point we just need to treat Petey as if he's injured with a torn ACL.  The psyche is a very powerful thing.  He isn't producing like we need him to and that sucks.  But we still have a shot to battle through this series and even if we can't, there will be other years with this core.  I think he needs a change of scenery to get his confidence back.  Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting the same result is the definition of insanity...

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

1 minute ago, Sell.the.team said:

You didn't say that... I was more so responding to the general sentiment in the thread and comments I've read on twitter.  Read someone comparing Petey's contract to Nurse and Huberdeau earlier today.

He’s nowhere near Nurse or Huberdeau territory yet. If he doesn’t produce during the playoff run, I can see that spectre rearing its head though. 

1 minute ago, Sell.the.team said:

I think at this point we just need to treat Petey as if he's injured with a torn ACL.

So, sit him and let him recover? Might as well, as the impact he’s making on the ice is negligible at this point. 

1 minute ago, Sell.the.team said:

The psyche is a very powerful thing.  He isn't producing like we need him to and that sucks.  But we still have a shot to battle through this series and even if we can't, there will be other years with this core.

The “we” mentioned here includes him, so if he isn’t injured or sick, he needs to man the fuck up. The Canucks could take this series if he shows up and plays to his potential. 

1 minute ago, Sell.the.team said:

I think he needs a change of scenery to get his confidence back.

Via trade? Or are you talking about different line mates? Confidence only improves if the individual deals with the reason their confidence has suffered. 

1 minute ago, Sell.the.team said:

Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting the same result is the definition of insanity...

Tocchet has limited options for linemates. He tried Pettersson with the Lotto Line and it wasn’t really clicking. 

[Sell.the.team]

8 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

He’s nowhere near Nurse or Huberdeau territory yet. If he doesn’t produce during the playoff run, I can see that spectre rearing its head though. 

So, sit him and let him recover? Might as well, as the impact he’s making on the ice is negligible at this point. 

The “we” mentioned here includes him, so if he isn’t injured or sick, he needs to man the fuck up. The Canucks could take this series if he shows up and plays to his potential. 

Via trade? Or are you talking about different line mates? Confidence only improves if the individual deals with the reason their confidence has suffered. 

Tocchet has limited options for linemates. He tried Pettersson with the Lotto Line and it wasn’t really clicking. 

 

He is 100% injured.  It sounds like its not a physical injury so I suspect its psychological.  It happens in sports all the time.  I don't think he should be held out, but we need to be patient with him.  Yelling at him to "man up" is not going to fix his injury.

 

He scored that nice one timer the other day so there is still hope for him.  I think some different line mates would help.  The lotto line makes the most sense to me.  Not sure what we have to lose in game 5 trying it for a full 60 minutes.  Sounds like its not happening per Tocchet, though, who vowed to keep the top lines together.

The thing is, we need more from Mik and Hoglander too.  The fact that they have 1 point between them is terrifying.  I think the line isn't working and needs to be tweaked... simple as that.  Mik looked decent with Miller in the last stretch of the season.  I don't know why we can't roster juggle a little more (while keeping 8 - 23 - 81 together).

 

 

Edited Wednesday at 09:03 PM by Sell.the.team

[PhillipBlunt]

2 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

He is 100% injured.  It sounds like its not a physical injury so I suspect its psychological.

A psychological injury is the psychological or psychiatric consequence of a traumatic event or physical injury. Such an injury might result from events such as abusive behavior, whistleblower retaliation, bullying, kidnapping, rape, motor vehicular collision or other negligent action.

 

So is Pettersson not handling the abuse from the Oilers? 

2 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

  It happens in sports all the time.  I don't think he should be held out, but we need to be patient with him.  Yelling at him to "man up" is not going to fix his injury.

Again, we? The team has been patient with him, and according to Lalji, Tocchet takes a more hands on approach with him than he does with other players on the team. How long does he get specialized treatment for? He’s part of a team. 

2 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

He scored that nice one timer the other day so there is still hope for him.  I think some different line mates would help.  The lotto line makes the most sense to me.  Not sure what we have to lose in game 5 trying it for a full 60 minutes.  Sounds like its not happening per Tocchet, though, who vowed to keep the top lines together.

Tocchet had him with different linemates at point during the game, and he still made poor decisions and ineffective plays in the Oilers end. It’s on him to improve. 

2 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

The thing is, we need more from Mik and Hoglander too.  The fact that they have 1 point between them is terrifying.

Mikeyev is a dead zone and should be moved on from in the offseason. Hoglander has been trying hard but maybe being assaulted by that turd Ryan (who received no punishment) took the wind out of his sails. 

2 minutes ago, Sell.the.team said:

  I think the line isn't working and needs to be tweaked... simple as that.  Mik looked decent with Miller in the last stretch of the season.  I don't know why we can't roster juggle a little more (while keeping 8 - 23 - 81 together).

Mikheyev should be sat and a younger player take his place. He’s useless. 

[Sell.the.team]

Just now, PhillipBlunt said:

A psychological injury is the psychological or psychiatric consequence of a traumatic event or physical injury. Such an injury might result from events such as abusive behavior, whistleblower retaliation, bullying, kidnapping, rape, motor vehicular collision or other negligent action.

 

So is Pettersson not handling the abuse from the Oilers? 

Again, we? The team has been patient with him, and according to Lalji, Tocchet takes a more hands on approach with him than he does with other players on the team. How long does he get specialized treatment for? He’s part of a team. 

Tocchet had him with different linemates at point during the game, and he still made poor decisions and ineffective plays in the Oilers end. It’s on him to improve. 

Mikeyev is a dead zone and should be moved on from in the offseason. Hoglander has been trying hard but maybe being assaulted by that turd Ryan (who received no punishment) took the wind out of his sails. 

Mikheyev should be sat and a younger player take his place. He’s useless. 

 

I say "psychological injury" tongue in cheek, not in a technical sense.  I saw your comments in the PGT thread where you said you thoguht "it was a mental thing" and I think we are on the same page here.  Have you ever seen a golfer or baseball pitcher with the yips?  The wide open net he missed vs the preds is evidence of that.  I think that is analagous to what Petey has right now.  Some sort of mental block that needs to be overcome, and can be overcome.  It was wider than most 'open nets' and he just hooked it hard.  I (along with basically everyone else) knew at that moment he was clearly battling some psychological demons.

 

Pettersson started the playoffs playing with Sam Lafferty.  I don't even hate Lafferty, but he should be playing on our fourth line - not with our franchise forward.  What the fuck kind of message does that send to him?  He should be on the top line playing with top line players.  When he gets unnecessary abuse from the opposition... guys like Sam Lafferty should be answering for him.

 

He had a bad first few games including the missed open net.  Then the incident with the goal celebration happened.  People critisized him for not fighting back after that.  WTF was he supposed to do, try to fight the whole team?  Even Bieksa admitted in the intermission that he would have done the same thing...and Juice is one of the toughest guys I've seen play.  The NHL should have penalized or suspended Lauzon for that but they didn't.  I'm all for letting the players play, but that crossed a line.  If the NHL was unwilling to do something, the Canucks should have answered back to that specific incident.  Someone should have fought Lauzon or given him a backhanded slash or something, or overtly taken down a pred after a goal celebration.  No one did.  That one is not on Petey IMO.  Same thing with Nurse shoving his head into the boards.  He's had a rough go these playoffs but he's not a lost cause.  We need him to produce more to win.  To me, it's a gambit but we need to play him more and hope he figures it out...because the alternative is us fading away in this series.  At least, that's my take right now, and maybe I am wrong.