Andrei Kuzmenko | #96 | LW

[-AJ-]

18 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Probably, at least as a guy who puts up as many goals as he did, he was always going to be in tough to keep that sky high shooting percentage going. He was always going to see some regression, his shooting percentage is much closer to league average now. 

 

If he wants to score more he'll need to simply start shooting more. 

 

None of this is to say he can't be a productive player, but I think folks should be tempering their expectations if they were expecting him to be a perennial 40ish goal guy. 

 

He's at 10.5%, which is much closer to league average, but my feeling is that he can be on the higher end of shooters, closer to 15%. Even still, reaching the high 30s in goals won't happen again unless he starts shooting more. Getting to even just 30 goals at 15% would be a great victory.

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

He's at 10.5%, which is much closer to league average, but my feeling is that he can be on the higher end of shooters, closer to 15%. Even still, reaching the high 30s in goals won't happen again unless he starts shooting more. Getting to even just 30 goals at 15% would be a great victory.

 

It absolutely would be, considering he's sitting at 4 about a quarter of the way through. He's a guy I'd be looking to move, it's good that the Canucks are listening on him, if we can find a better fit in our top six or a legit top four D that'd be great. 

 

Particularly because he's up in two years, and I reckon we're only going to keep one of him and Boeser. As of right now it's a pretty easy choice as to who the Canucks should extend. 

[-AJ-]

7 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

It absolutely would be, considering he's sitting at 4 about a quarter of the way through. He's a guy I'd be looking to move, it's good that the Canucks are listening on him, if we can find a better fit in our top six or a legit top four D that'd be great. 

 

Particularly because he's up in two years, and I reckon we're only going to keep one of him and Boeser. As of right now it's a pretty easy choice as to who the Canucks should extend. 

 

Yeah, Boeser is the better player in literally every aspect of the game, offensively, defensively, and physically. He's also a year younger. The choice seems obvious to me, at least for now.

[Coconuts]

37 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

 

Yeah, Boeser is the better player in literally every aspect of the game, offensively, defensively, and physically. He's also a year younger. The choice seems obvious to me, at least for now.

 

He's also got the roots here, we're much more likely to get a fairer deal from him than we would from UFA top six wingers

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

Probably, at least as a guy who puts up as many goals as he did, he was always going to be in tough to keep that sky high shooting percentage going. He was always going to see some regression, his shooting percentage is much closer to league average now. 

 

If he wants to score more he'll need to simply start shooting more. 

 

None of this is to say he can't be a productive player, but I think folks should be tempering their expectations if they were expecting him to be a perennial 40ish goal guy. 

 

Yep. I'm not hot to trade him by any means, unless it's for a serious upgrade like Pesce.

[Coconuts]

8 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yep. I'm not hot to trade him by any means, unless it's for a serious upgrade like Pesce.

 

Aye, and if he's moved it'll be precisely because he holds value, gotta give good things to get good things most of the time

Edited December 10, 2023 by Coconuts

[Bob Long]

Just now, Coconuts said:

 

Aye, and if he's moved it'll be precisely because he holds value, gotta give good things to get good things most of the time

 

Unless we want a Sea of Granlunds again. That was.... Something.

[Coconuts]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

Unless we want a Sea of Granlunds again. That was.... Something.

 

 

[D.B Cooper]

7 hours ago, dannydog said:

Not sure how Kuzy is going to right this ship. With limited minutes and demotion to the4 th is going to make it much harder. He’s not a 4th line type player , he’s a high iQ player playing on a line of grinders it’s going to definitely take time to change his game. 

Well he better figure it out pretty fucking soon. Lol. 
Hard work, forecheck and backcheck are his problem.  
What better way to fix that than be stapled to the 4th line?   
 

[VegasCanuck]

4 hours ago, -AJ- said:

 

He's at 10.5%, which is much closer to league average, but my feeling is that he can be on the higher end of shooters, closer to 15%. Even still, reaching the high 30s in goals won't happen again unless he starts shooting more. Getting to even just 30 goals at 15% would be a great victory.

My take on Kuzmenko and his drop in production this year is, Coach BB REALLY heavily focused on offense and didn't pay as much attention to the defensive side of the game.  If you look at his per game stats, it appears that his production slowly started to drop off after Tocchet took over in late January, he had more games without any points, more with only 1 or 2 points. I think he was slowly being asked to have more accountability in his game and defensive coverage. To start this season, Tocchet and the rest of the coaching staff have really been pushing for accountability at both ends of the ice and he's struggling to fit into that type of game.

 

He may be much more suited to a more lax coaching system with less accountability.

 

He's not shooting much in the offensive zone, seems to really be looking for a pass, sometimes choosing a high-risk pass resulting in a turnover instead of just firing the puck and relying on players around the net to deflect or pickup rebounds.

 

Like Beauvillier, he really doesn't fit or play the type of game we need in our bottom 6 and as such, our best option may very well be to trade him for bottom 6 and middle defense pairing help.

 

Zadorov has been looking more comfortable out there every game with our coaching system, but we still need help suppressing shots. We're really giving up too many high risk chances in our own zone and forcing our goalies to bail us out too often.

 

[Sativika]

3 hours ago, VegasCanuck said:

My take on Kuzmenko and his drop in production this year is, Coach BB REALLY heavily focused on offense and didn't pay as much attention to the defensive side of the game.  If you look at his per game stats, it appears that his production slowly started to drop off after Tocchet took over in late January, he had more games without any points, more with only 1 or 2 points. I think he was slowly being asked to have more accountability in his game and defensive coverage. To start this season, Tocchet and the rest of the coaching staff have really been pushing for accountability at both ends of the ice and he's struggling to fit into that type of game.

 

He may be much more suited to a more lax coaching system with less accountability.

 

He's not shooting much in the offensive zone, seems to really be looking for a pass, sometimes choosing a high-risk pass resulting in a turnover instead of just firing the puck and relying on players around the net to deflect or pickup rebounds.

 

Like Beauvillier, he really doesn't fit or play the type of game we need in our bottom 6 and as such, our best option may very well be to trade him for bottom 6 and middle defense pairing help.

 

Zadorov has been looking more comfortable out there every game with our coaching system, but we still need help suppressing shots. We're really giving up too many high risk chances in our own zone and forcing our goalies to bail us out too often.

 

 

Really, Kuz is going through nothing different than Flow or Hogs had to go through. Different circumstances I understand, but from a hockey point, it is the same. Things are paying off for the respective offensive parts of their games now.

 

Kuz should arrive at that juncture at some point; offence will return for him. Not to be repetitious, but dude needs to keep things simple and just keep reminding himself of what he needs to do; forecheck and whatever. The extreme will soon turn to a balance. Then we'll see that Kuzy infectious smile once again!

[VegasCanuck]

12 hours ago, Sativika said:

 

Really, Kuz is going through nothing different than Flow or Hogs had to go through. Different circumstances I understand, but from a hockey point, it is the same. Things are paying off for the respective offensive parts of their games now.

 

Kuz should arrive at that juncture at some point; offence will return for him. Not to be repetitious, but dude needs to keep things simple and just keep reminding himself of what he needs to do; forecheck and whatever. The extreme will soon turn to a balance. Then we'll see that Kuzy infectious smile once again!

Höglander plays a different type of game, more grinding. He's better in a crowd and is a natural forechecker. He had some deficiencies in his defensive coverage, but is also, in terms of hockey timeline, much younger and was assignable to Abbotsford without clearing waivers.

 

Kuzmenko is a highly skilled player, my point is, that he might not be the "type" of player that we need.

[steviewonder20]

https://thecanuckway.com/2023/12/10/vancouver-canucks-trade-andrei-kuzmenko-3-packages/
 

I don’t want a 32 or 33 year old in return and I really don’t want to give up a 1st as we don’t even have a 2nd round pick next year.

[Moeknows]

I like Tocchet but I just wish he'd get his head out of his a** and let Kuzy be Kuzy! We could use the offense!

[Northern_Nuck]

55 minutes ago, Moeknows said:

I like Tocchet but I just wish he'd get his head out of his a** and let Kuzy be Kuzy! We could use the offense!

Agreed. Sometimes trying to turn a mustang into a Clydesdale just doesn’t work. 

[Mike Vanderhoek]

23 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yep. I'm not hot to trade him by any means, unless it's for a serious upgrade like Pesce.

 

Agreed but even then I feel its a kick you in the ass deal after he goes to a new team.

 

Huge fan of this coaching staff but I don't have time for the Kuzmenko situation. Sure, hold everyone accountable and get them playing at a standard but not every player can or will do that. Difference is some players get that long leash. Being a 30+ goal scorer in year one should have given Kuz a bigger leash. 

 

Look at Bure? Mogliny, Kovalev, heck even Kessel. Certain players get that leash. From day one here Kuz got shafted at camp. When you have two incredibly responsible 200ft players in Petey and Mikheyev you are positioned to have a Kuzmenko. This coaching staff has now used this player as an example and a detriment to the team.

 

It will hurt the Canucks to be down such a good scorer long term but he won't play here so get that top 4 dman out of it.

 

Maybe one of a couple aspects out if the coaching I dont like.

[Bob Long]

17 minutes ago, Mike Vanderhoek said:

 

Agreed but even then I feel its a kick you in the ass deal after he goes to a new team.

 

Huge fan of this coaching staff but I don't have time for the Kuzmenko situation. Sure, hold everyone accountable and get them playing at a standard but not every player can or will do that. Difference is some players get that long leash. Being a 30+ goal scorer in year one should have given Kuz a bigger leash. 

 

Look at Bure? Mogliny, Kovalev, heck even Kessel. Certain players get that leash. From day one here Kuz got shafted at camp. When you have two incredibly responsible 200ft players in Petey and Mikheyev you are positioned to have a Kuzmenko. This coaching staff has now used this player as an example and a detriment to the team.

 

It will hurt the Canucks to be down such a good scorer long term but he won't play here so get that top 4 dman out of it.

 

Maybe one of a couple aspects out if the coaching I dont like.

 

I guess it's a debate between accountability for all vs skill sets.

 

But does Hogs become a top 6 without the accountability push? 

[Sophomore Jinx]

‘We’ll keep an open mind’: Jim Rutherford discusses the Andrei Kuzmenko situation

Story by Mike Gould, Canucksarmy

 

‘We’ll keep an open mind’: Jim Rutherford discusses the Andrei Kuzmenko situation

© Anne-Marie Sorvin-USA TODAY Sports

 

Andrei Kuzmenko’s second season in the National Hockey League hasn’t exactly gone according to plan, but the Vancouver Canucks are keeping an open mind about the situation.

Kuzmenko, 27, has just four goals and 15 points in 25 games this season and has twice been made a healthy scratch by Canucks head coach Rick Tocchet, who has frequently expressed his frustration with the sophomore winger.

 

Canucks president Jim Rutherford told Sportsnet’s Iain MacIntyre on Monday that the team still believes in Kuzmenko but won’t lock itself into a specific direction with the 5’11” forward.

“I’m concerned only to the point that now he’s feeling the pressure,” Rutherford told MacIntyre. “And when you feel the pressure and you start pushing, squeezing the stick harder and passing when you should be shooting and vice versa, you get a little bit concerned.

“I believe in the staff we have and they will continue to work with him,” Rutherford continued.” He’s a good player. He is a capable player. Is he a guy that’s going to score 40 goals again? Maybe not. But certainly, the way he plays, you should be able to project him at 25.”

The Canucks’ management group clearly believes in Kuzmenko — they signed him to a two-year, $11 million contract extension back in January. But as Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman indicated over the weekend, the Canucks are fielding calls from other teams who want to know what they’re prepared to do.

 

To their credit, Rutherford and Co. aren’t painting themselves into a corner with regards to the Kuzmenko situation — or, at least, they’ve said as much.

“We’ll keep an open mind,” Rutherford told MacIntyre. “I don’t want to just lock ourselves into one answer. But we need to continue to try to help him.”

In 81 games with the Canucks last season, Kuzmenko collected 39 goals and 74 points to go along with a plus-nine rating. Due to his age, he was ineligible for the Calder Memorial Trophy, awarded each year to the NHL’s top rookie.

[canucks curse]

6 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

‘We’ll keep an open mind’: Jim Rutherford discusses the Andrei Kuzmenko situation

Story by Mike Gould, Canucksarmy

 

‘We’ll keep an open mind’: Jim Rutherford discusses the Andrei Kuzmenko situation

© Anne-Marie Sorvin-USA TODAY Sports

 

Andrei Kuzmenko’s second season in the National Hockey League hasn’t exactly gone according to plan, but the Vancouver Canucks are keeping an open mind about the situation.

Kuzmenko, 27, has just four goals and 15 points in 25 games this season and has twice been made a healthy scratch by Canucks head coach Rick Tocchet, who has frequently expressed his frustration with the sophomore winger.

 

Canucks president Jim Rutherford told Sportsnet’s Iain MacIntyre on Monday that the team still believes in Kuzmenko but won’t lock itself into a specific direction with the 5’11” forward.

“I’m concerned only to the point that now he’s feeling the pressure,” Rutherford told MacIntyre. “And when you feel the pressure and you start pushing, squeezing the stick harder and passing when you should be shooting and vice versa, you get a little bit concerned.

“I believe in the staff we have and they will continue to work with him,” Rutherford continued.” He’s a good player. He is a capable player. Is he a guy that’s going to score 40 goals again? Maybe not. But certainly, the way he plays, you should be able to project him at 25.”

The Canucks’ management group clearly believes in Kuzmenko — they signed him to a two-year, $11 million contract extension back in January. But as Sportsnet’s Elliotte Friedman indicated over the weekend, the Canucks are fielding calls from other teams who want to know what they’re prepared to do.

 

To their credit, Rutherford and Co. aren’t painting themselves into a corner with regards to the Kuzmenko situation — or, at least, they’ve said as much.

“We’ll keep an open mind,” Rutherford told MacIntyre. “I don’t want to just lock ourselves into one answer. But we need to continue to try to help him.”

In 81 games with the Canucks last season, Kuzmenko collected 39 goals and 74 points to go along with a plus-nine rating. Due to his age, he was ineligible for the Calder Memorial Trophy, awarded each year to the NHL’s top rookie.

[GrammaInTheTub]

Go to bed Jim and just let PA do the talking. It’s worked better so far. 

[Lemon Face]

On 12/10/2023 at 1:25 PM, Bob Long said:

 

Yep. I'm not hot to trade him by any means, unless it's for a serious upgrade like Pesce.

Tocchet doesn't like him.The longer this drag,less we will get.I love Kuz,but i love Nux more

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Lemon Face said:

Tocchet doesn't like him.The longer this drag,less we will get.I love Kuz,but i love Nux more

 

I think Tocc is frustrated for sure. It's not like he's asking Kuzy to become the third Tkachuk brother, just forecheck.

 

But he's trying to learn this now in the toughest league, he never had to do this in the KHL.

 

I'd like to see a line of kuzy-Suter-joshua. Maybe that can be effective.

[Lemon Face]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think Tocc is frustrated for sure. It's not like he's asking Kuzy to become the third Tkachuk brother, just forecheck.

 

But he's trying to learn this now in the toughest league, he never had to do this in the KHL.

 

I'd like to see a line of kuzy-Suter-joshua. Maybe that can be effective.

You cant teach old dog new tricks.He is finesse player,this system is not good for him.Hope i am wrong,but i also believe in our front office.

[boziffous]

To start this season Kuzmenko had 14 pts in his first 16 games, which is similar to the point production he had last season. Since Kuzy took that puck to the face though, he has just 1 pt in his last 9 games.

[boziffous]

On 12/10/2023 at 6:43 PM, VegasCanuck said:

My take on Kuzmenko and his drop in production this year is, Coach BB REALLY heavily focused on offense and didn't pay as much attention to the defensive side of the game.  If you look at his per game stats, it appears that his production slowly started to drop off after Tocchet took over in late January, he had more games without any points, more with only 1 or 2 points. I think he was slowly being asked to have more accountability in his game and defensive coverage. To start this season, Tocchet and the rest of the coaching staff have really been pushing for accountability at both ends of the ice and he's struggling to fit into that type of game.

 

He may be much more suited to a more lax coaching system with less accountability.

 

He's not shooting much in the offensive zone, seems to really be looking for a pass, sometimes choosing a high-risk pass resulting in a turnover instead of just firing the puck and relying on players around the net to deflect or pickup rebounds.

 

Like Beauvillier, he really doesn't fit or play the type of game we need in our bottom 6 and as such, our best option may very well be to trade him for bottom 6 and middle defense pairing help.

 

Zadorov has been looking more comfortable out there every game with our coaching system, but we still need help suppressing shots. We're really giving up too many high risk chances in our own zone and forcing our goalies to bail us out too often.

 

 

I agree with a lot of what you said, but Kuzmenko's production last season actually didn't drop off after Tocchet took over.

 

Kuzmenko stats with Boudreau as coach last season

45 games 19 goals, 22 assists, 41 points +6

Kuzmenko registered a point in 24 of those 45 games

 

After Tocchet took over in late January

36 games 20 goals, 13 assists, 33 points, +3

Kuzmenko registered a point in 23 of those 36 games