Is Pettersson an elite/superstar forward? Is he up there with McDavid, Matthews etc?

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I am just wondering how many fans consider Petey an elite forward? I feel like the Canucks have always had strong forwards but ever since Bure who I considered skill wise elite, we haven’t had a superstar since then? Thoughts? It’s weird it been so long since we have had an elite superstar. Hughes a dman is something I consider elite.

Edited December 29, 2023 by Canuckfanforlife82

[6YPE]

I think he falls down too much to be "elite". He doesn't have that explosive power to me, in fact by those terms I'd say Miller is more elite than Pettersson. I suppose one would need to define "elite". 

[N4ZZY]

7 minutes ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I am just wondering how many fans consider Petey an elite forward? I feel like the Canucks have always had strong forwards but ever since Bure who I considered skill wise elite, we haven’t had a superstar since then? Thoughts? It’s weird it been so long since we have had an elite superstar. Hughes a dman is something I consider elite.

 

Compared to McDavid? No, he's not elite. But like the other poster has said, probably needs to define the word, to have further conversation on what it means. 

 

[fanfor42]

Pettersson is closer to Eichel than McDavid.

 

[Master Mind]

I consider him elite but not in that superstar tier with the likes of McDavid and MacKinnon.

 

I count the Sedins as superstars in their prime, so I don't feel it was that long ago we had that level of player.

[canuck73_3]

2 hours ago, Canuckfanforlife82 said:

I am just wondering how many fans consider Petey an elite forward? I feel like the Canucks have always had strong forwards but ever since Bure who I considered skill wise elite, we haven’t had a superstar since then? Thoughts? It’s weird it been so long since we have had an elite superstar. Hughes a dman is something I consider elite.

When he’s on he’s as good as any elite forward. He is not consistently on like a McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, Matthews, Kucherov, Crosby, Ovie yet though. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by canuck73_3

[Elias Pettersson]

 A 100 point player should be considered elite.  We only had 11 of them last year, so you would think there are at least 11 elite players in the NHL.  Petey is still on pace for around 100 points this year too.  The biggest problem with Petey is his consistency.  That's why he is not yet at the level of a McDavid or a MacKinnon or a Kucherov.

 

We will see if he can get that consistency in the future.  If not, then we still have a 100 point two way centre on the team.  

 

Remember, the Sedins weren't "elite" until they were 28-29 years old.  Same with Naslund.  The only elite player we have ever had that was elite from the very beginning of his career was Pavel Bure.  He became a superstar after his first shift in the NHL.  So, give Petey some time here.  He may get there too...

[cripplereh]

I say elite but not quite a superstar.

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Master Mind said:

I consider him elite but not in that superstar tier with the likes of McDavid and MacKinnon.

 

I count the Sedins as superstars in their prime, so I don't feel it was that long ago we had that level of player.

That's exactly right.   EPs had months or extended periods of time (like this years start, but even then it seemed like he had another level),   where he is or can be one of the best players in the league.   That's something all good-great players do though.   To get that consistently, is what gets you to the next level.    I don't think EPs done enough yet to be given the superstar handle, and that it's loosely applied and thrown out and used by the media.   He's a star player, no doubt.   So is Miller, so is QHs, and this year, aside from his stinker last night, Brock is too.  

 

40 goal scorers, are star players.   50 are special.  And rare even today with scoring levels the past 1.5 seasons, back to pre dead puck era levels.   There weren't that many guys scoring 50 goals, have to go back to when Mario and Jagr were doing their thing to find a 150 point scorer.   That's a superstar.   So is Draisatl (no he doesn't just play with McDavid, most of the time he's got his own line, the year he won all the hardware, was much deserved, personally would rather have him on my team too, better in the post season IMO then McDavid).    McKinnon.   Kucherov for a winger.   Pastrnak too.   

 

Said this a few times recently, to be a superstar you have to be a tier above the rest of the star group.  Super means super.   Orr and Espo started that.   Then Gretzky and Mario took it to another level (with Potvin, Bossy, Lafleur, Borque, Coffey, Dionne also in the mix).     Jagr was a superstar.   Bure was too.   You have to be top 1-3 in your position, year after year or a period of years, to get to that level.   Naslund was a superstar for us for three years.   First team all star 3 in a row.   The Sedins were too, for one year anyways.   

 

Mogilny was awfully close too.   Luongo was also a superstar.   A top 1-3 goalie, for the majority of his time with us.   

 

Used to be a very different criteria, to get into the HHOF.   The past decade or so, they relaxes the rules.   That was always likely, given the distinct drop in talent, once Europe and Russia was scouted and scoured, the best came in, and for whatever reason, the talent level just went kaput in the 2000's.   Our twins considered retirement, that's how bad the clutch and grab era was.    Removing the redline and a pass, and eliminating the goons helped a lot (not the enforcers).   But the reality was, it was the aging stars from the 90's, who carried the mail.   At least until Crosby and Ovi arrived and even then, Sakic and Alfie were scoring over 100 at 34 and 37...and Sundin (who aside from a couple big seasons in Quebec),  was always in the top ten, scoring around a PPG.    The Sedins became stars after the lockout.   That extra space made a huge difference, half their careers they were stars, the other half something else.    Both first ballot HHOFers, yet guys from the 70's, had to wait decades, who were stars their entire careers, and scored at a higher clip.  

 

Long post.   But the simple answer is no.   Is EP top five in scoring?   Is he normally in the top five?   Is he a top 3 center league wide, and has he done it for more than one year?   You also need some hardware, OR maybe be blocked by a generational player.    Gretzky and Mario set a bar above the super-star status, so did Orr.     Crosby and Ovi.    McDavid and Mckinnon.     The leagues so big now,  maybe there can be 6 superstars now instead of 2-3 at any given time for forwards.    But even under that criteria,  EP isn't there yet. 

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

Also want to add, having followed this team mostly like it's a religion, since the late 80's almost done High School, i've only ever seen a few young players come in and just kick major butt right away.   Those guys are an 18 year old Linden, Bure who was a year younger but didn't start until he was 20 or so,  Brock's first season (a lot of years, he would have won the Calder, but was a legit all-star selection, insane accurate competition skills, and all-star MVP...folks forget how we were drooling over him at the time ... for sure a 40-50 future goal scorer right?), EP and then QHs.     That's it.    Only time I remember, having this quality and at this age, was in the early 90's once you add Ronning and Nedved.  

 

EPs aside from Bure, has also been the best player we've ever had, at 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24 and now just starting 25.    Until he was mugged, was getting high praise. and killing it his rookie year.   Still his hottest streak.   Ten goals, ten games.   Great one even spoke a bit.   

 

And he was also setting records in the SHL, which has had some pretty great HHOFers come through.    

 

In the end, don't really care if he ends up a "super-star" or not.   Only that we sign him long term, to a fair deal that he won't struggle to meet.   And that we win a cup with him.     And am truly grateful we have him too.    He's awfully close to becoming one.   And so think, he's got a shot at some hardware, and a few selections too (first and or second, injuries happen and players regress, McDavid probably keeps hogging them for awhile yet anyways). 

Edited December 29, 2023 by IBatch

[iinatcc]

4 hours ago, fanfor42 said:

Pettersson is closer to Eichel than McDavid.

 

 

So better than McDavid ?  

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, iinatcc said:

 

So better than McDavid ?  

Eichel 1.   McDavid 0.    Funny how that goes right?   If the Habs drafted Dionne instead of Lafleur, Lafleur has a lot less points and Dionne has a lot more.    Plus immortalized with a statue outside the Bell center and a personal trophy case that would embarrass anyone but Gretzky, Mario and Orr.   Oh and Dionne still ended up with 400 plus more points as it is.    Watched them both, know who was better, and it's not the guy with all the hardware. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, 6YPE said:

I think he falls down too much to be "elite". He doesn't have that explosive power to me, in fact by those terms I'd say Miller is more elite than Pettersson. I suppose one would need to define "elite". 

Elite:  " A select group, that is superior in qualities or ability"  

 

So it does at least have the word "superior" in it.    Here is what super as a prefix means, when added to something, in this case "star".  Which i'm pretty sure nobody needs to define. 

 

To me anyways,  a super star, is above and beyond, greater in the extreme degree even, to the other stars.   It's not a statement of are they super compared to the generic NHLer.   It's super compared to their peer group of STARS.    You could take the top 30 in scoring, from the NHL, and call them the star players.   Plus add some more for their two-way play (Horvat for example, is/was a star in his own right as well).   And then do the defense as well, this time considering that their role is to keep the puck out of the net too, and find 30 NHL D's and call them stars.   

 

To be "super" means absolute cream.   Think perennial first and second all-star team selections.    Or if you're looking backwards, take Mario and Gretzky and Orr out (ultimate super-stars, they were super-DUper-stars) and see what's next.  

 

And for D, think Ray Borque.  

Edited December 29, 2023 by IBatch

[Mackcanuck]

Is it Time to re-unite the 6 - 40 - 9 line?

IMHO Petey's line is holding him back,

It's clearly not working, There's no magic there!

 

[PeteyBOI]

no he is not, does have potential? yes.

[IBatch]

20 minutes ago, Mackcanuck said:

Is it Time to re-unite the 6 - 40 - 9 line?

IMHO Petey's line is holding him back,

It's clearly not working, There's no magic there!

 

6-40-9 won't work.   Maybe Miller wasn't given enough credit, we can't do a one line thing.     Kuzmenko is the key.   He's been paid to be a top six player.   Definitely, achieved that last year.     Funny how before this year, Brock was hounded.    Brock and EP ... sure.   Mikheyev slots in with Miller?    And who plays with Kuzmenko.    Think they won't mess with things just to bump EPs points, and that Kuzmenko will rebound, and it will spark EP too.    Either that, or they need to trade Kuzmenko for something else for EP.   Miller and Brock are a pair.   

[PeteyBOI]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

6-40-9 won't work.   Maybe Miller wasn't given enough credit, we can't do a one line thing.     Kuzmenko is the key.   He's been paid to be a top six player.   Definitely, achieved that last year.     Funny how before this year, Brock was hounded.    Brock and EP ... sure.   Mikheyev slots in with Miller?    And who plays with Kuzmenko.    Think they won't mess with things just to bump EPs points, and that Kuzmenko will rebound, and it will spark EP too.    Either that, or they need to trade Kuzmenko for something else for EP.   Miller and Brock are a pair.   

I agree... we need to spread the wealth.... you hear it time in and time out... rolling 4 lines...

Pretty much thats what we are doing... and there are 2 player from each line that are staples

1 2  14 minutes

3 4 12 minutes

 

Petterson And Miller dont pick up shifts, they are the shifts...

 

there are a few players that pick up regular extra shifts

garland

Joshua

Lafferty

Boeser (Surprised to see he is playing more 5v5 than any other player,im guessing he and garland are picking up shifts with EP)

Bleuger

Suter

 

These are the bench warmers...

Aman

Kuzmenko

PDG

Hoglander

[DrJockitch]

The way I see it there are a couple tiers above Pettey

The McDavid, Makar tier.  Only 2 there. The elites, head and shoulders above their piers most days. 

The MacKinnon/Heiskanen tier.  On their best days you think they belong in top tier but they are a step below the other two when look at body of work over time. 

The EP/QH tier. Amazing players with one clear flaw in their game that they frequently overcome but is sometimes capitalized on. These guys get into the trophy voting at times through their careers and often get payed like they belong in one of the tiers above.  This would include players like Huberdeau and LittleJohnny. 
I exclude goaltenders, they just are their own odd little world. 

[wai_lai416]

i would say he's elite based on what he plays with. how many players in the top 10 in scoring doesn't play with the 2nd 3rd 4th 5th best skaters on the team 5v5? hughes boesers miller hronek etc? his most consistent linemate is a player that never gotten more than 32 points in his career and one that gets benched if makes a mistake in the offensive zone. you guys can complain all you want about EP but quality of linemates matters. i still don't understand the reasoning behind EP not playing with hughes/hronek 5v5 over the miller line.. EP is the scoring line and Miller is the top matchup shutdown line against other teams top player?? so wouldn't it make more sense to have your scoring line with your 2 offensive defenceman and ur shutdown line with 2 more defensive defenceman?? 

[Crabcakes]

Petey was putting up points every game and often multiple points early in the season and then that stopped.

 

Is he distracted?  Is it contract talks?

 

Is he just not that good?  Can't carry a line?  Doesn't have the right line mates?  Can't produce when he is checked as if he is the Canucks most dangerous offensive weapon?

 

Last season he had a long period of success and scored over 100 points and he began the season even better.  Not so much now.  He is often off the score sheet.

 

I'm voting for Petey for the player I'm most concerned about.

[Bob Long]

Elite, yes.

 

Generational, no.

 

 

[-dlc-]

You're comparing him to guys who are 1 and 2 years older and 1st round "generational" picks so that tells you all you need to know. That he's in that conversation. 

 

He's struggling in regard to explosive offensive success right now but still contributes. He'll get back to form and I'd hate to see that happen elsewhere. 

 

 

[Nucker67]

Petey's real good, but he lacks in some areas.  Nowhere near generational. 

[Jess]

Definitely not generational like McDavid (I'm not convinced Matthews is, but he may prove me wrong, in time). Might be "superstar" level, but does lack a little bit of consistency to comfortably be there IMO.

 

When he's at his peak, scoring at a 120+ pace and with very strong defense, he's very comfortably an elite superstar talent.

 

Generational is such a high bar to reach I don't even really consider him for that level in my mind, the question is just "superstar" or not. I'd say most of the time, he reaches that level.

[Canuckfanforlife82]

I guess when I say elite, I mean dominant and not dominant the entire game but the ability to be dominant. He’s put up points this year but I don’t recall him having a dominant game where I have been like wow. He played amazing. It just feels like this year he’s gotten points without really being visible. He’s had a lot of games where he’s done nothing but has gotten secondary assists. An elite player I feel you should have dominant games. He has in the past just not so much this year.