[Proposal] Two ex-Canucks are still free agents - are they the band-aids we need?

[Miss Korea]

The first one is an obvious choice and one that could still make an impact down the road - even if he's not ready yet.

 

 

Ethan Bear was always a decent puck-moving defenceman, and that didn't change when he joined the Canucks.  Soucy's absence doesn't necessarily change things, as we are still needing improvements on the RD side.  The problem with Bear is obvious - he is still in post-surgery rehab and he is likely out until Christmas at the earliest.  He cannot help us for some time.  We also don't know how his rehab is going, or if he's going to be in good condition when he comes back.  It might be nice to have some fresh legs in the dog days of the regular season, or he could be rusty or have lingering issues in his return.  Risks are there, but he has enough upside to be considered later on.

 

The second option is a desperate one.

 

 

Don't let the half-decent analytics fool you.  As slow he was before he left Vancouver, the Eagle has indeed gotten worse over the years.  Kings fans will tell you he moves like a tractor out there.  Predictably, he got burned on the rush and took a lot of tripping/hooking calls.  Having said that, his two-way game never went away.  Obviously he falls well below Carson Soucy in the depth chart, but he might provide just enough of an impact as injuries start to pile up.  Jeff Paterson reported in September that he was still looking to play hockey... and we are now in November.  If he is still in hockey shape, he might just be the duct tape we need for the time being.

 

There have been some famous Canucks who've come back and made big impacts.  Brad Richardson.  Peter Schaefer.  Some gym club owner.  These can be the next ones.

[Jeremy Hronek]

Yes to Bear, no to Edler.  

 

Edler, god bless him, is washed up now.  

 

I'd be in favour of signing Ethan Bear as opposed to trading young assets (i.e. Hoglander+) for someone like Tanev.  

 

Let Bear be our solution to the "hedge against potential injuries to the defense," problem.  

 

Initially, I was in favour of trading for a top pairing RD that could play alongside Hughes (while allowing Hronek to "captain" a 2nd pairing), but the Canucks seem content to play Hughes-Hronek together........and so I'm not sure if we really need a "#2A/#3" calibre defenseman (especially at what it would cost).    

 

Sign Bear for free.  

 

Let Edler fade off into the sunset.

 

 

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Elias Pettersson]

No and No.  Edler needs to retire and Bear is not even an upgrade on Friedman at this point.  I'd rather go all in and give the boys a shot at a cup...

[Miss Korea]

41 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Yes to Bear, no to Edler.  

 

Edler, god bless him, is washed up now.  

 

I'd be in favour of signing Ethan Bear as opposed to trading young assets (i.e. Hoglander+) for someone like Tanev.  

Let Bear be our solution to the "hedge against potential injuries to the defense," problem.  

 

Initially, I was in favour of trading for a top pairing RD that could play alongside Hughes (while allowing Hronek to "captain" a 2nd pairing), but the Canucks seem content to play Hughes-Hronek together........and so I'm not sure if we really need a "#2A/#3" calibre defenseman (especially at what it would cost).    

 

Sign Bear for free.  

Let Edler fade off into the sunset.

The problem is that we can't have Bear until the New Year.  Until then, that means we ride Juulsen and Friedman, including this current stretch without Soucy.

 

32 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

No and No.  Edler needs to retire and Bear is not even an upgrade on Friedman at this point.  I'd rather go all in and give the boys a shot at a cup...

 

I would not be surprised if Edler joined the rest of the 2011 core and started coaching here next year.  His wife is from here and he's lived most of his adult life here.

 

Not sure why you're so dismissive of Bear, though.  He got traded around but he was always a legitimate NHL-level defenceman.  When he is fully recovered, he should be able to continue where he left off.  Friedman is firmly in the 7/8 spot and has been there for most of his career.  I like him, but Bear is definitely the better defenceman on paper.

[iinatcc]

Bear only if he signs for a one year deal at a cheap cap hit. Of course if he comes in cheap ( less than a Million), Canucks would need to find a way to clear up cap space.

 

If he performs well it gives the Canucks an opportunity to extend him next season IF (and only if) the price is right. 

[DownUndaCanuck]

Trade for Zadorov and be done with it. These free agents, Kane included, coming in cold mid-season is a recipe for disaster. I'd take Bear for 1M, no more. He probably deserves 2M but who knows how he's going to play after missing so much time, would rather just play Wolanin or Hirose and move Cole over.

[Drakrami]

lol.. no to Edler if you want any sort of playoff run. Hes 37 years old.. teams are going to blow by him. 

[IBatch]

2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

No and No.  Edler needs to retire and Bear is not even an upgrade on Friedman at this point.  I'd rather go all in and give the boys a shot at a cup...

Bear isn't a bad signing, it's a depth requirement as much as anything.    But am with you EP, trade our first and something redundant in the farm,  but not for a rental.    For someone that adds to our core.   Like a Hamhuis.   Someone cost controlled for a couple seasons or more, that we can add to our core with.   Hamhuis, Bieksa, Salo, Erhoff, Edler and later Tanev were all part of our core.    Right now we've got QHs and Hronek (not signed but you can bet he's getting a massive pay-day coming) as core for our D corp, with hopes Willander will be part of it later.   Not enough!   Sure we've got two higher end guys... But if you look at all the cup champs with the exception of PIT (Letang was out one of those cups),  try and find a D-corp that didn't have a top four if not a top six locked down.      CHI had a great second pairing.   So did LA.   So did/does TB.   Vegas.    St. Louis.   And the bridesmaids did too, SJ, FLD etc.

 

We need to add a legit top four D.   Maybe we can via free agency, but that's not ideal.   Save the free agents for the icing and key support roles like Allvin did last summer.   

 

Beau needs to go.    If this team can find a 23-25 year old Willie Mitchell type, everything would fall into place.   

 

Cole should be getting an extension now as well.    Same with Myers maybe Myers.   Lock in those guys plus add a young Willie Mitchell, we have a shot at a cup this year and next year.    The only other thing would be a 3C who can move up when needed.  

 

Van is loaded with 7th defenseman.   Breezer will be back.    Signing Bear and making that vital trade, our D-corp is set for now.    Once Willander comes in, that pushes our window.    We've basically got one long window with this core, but it's going to close somewhat for awhile, during the worst part of the OEL buyout, and when we wait for cap to go up assuming all EP and Hronek sign monster deals.   

 

Adding one more top four D that's part of the long term plan aside from Willander, is what we need the most. 

[IBatch]

As for Edler, wasn't that impressed with his play against Vegas.    Felt he had the ability to play with those guys but wilted - aside from one leaping cross-check (for sure a penalty but not called, post season and all that), to clear the net, he wasn't playing them hard like Myers.     Edler  Myers was at most an ok pairing.    

[Northern_Nuck]

52 minutes ago, IBatch said:

As for Edler, wasn't that impressed with his play against Vegas.    Felt he had the ability to play with those guys but wilted - aside from one leaping cross-check (for sure a penalty but not called, post season and all that), to clear the net, he wasn't playing them hard like Myers.     Edler  Myers was at most an ok pairing.    

Legit worst pairing in the nhl today if they were to play together. Edler would rival his -39 season. 

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Bear isn't a bad signing, it's a depth requirement as much as anything.    But am with you EP, trade our first and something redundant in the farm,  but not for a rental.    For someone that adds to our core.   Like a Hamhuis.   Someone cost controlled for a couple seasons or more, that we can add to our core with.   Hamhuis, Bieksa, Salo, Erhoff, Edler and later Tanev were all part of our core.    Right now we've got QHs and Hronek (not signed but you can bet he's getting a massive pay-day coming) as core for our D corp, with hopes Willander will be part of it later.   Not enough!   Sure we've got two higher end guys... But if you look at all the cup champs with the exception of PIT (Letang was out one of those cups),  try and find a D-corp that didn't have a top four if not a top six locked down.      CHI had a great second pairing.   So did LA.   So did/does TB.   Vegas.    St. Louis.   And the bridesmaids did too, SJ, FLD etc.

 

We need to add a legit top four D.   Maybe we can via free agency, but that's not ideal.   Save the free agents for the icing and key support roles like Allvin did last summer.   

 

Beau needs to go.    If this team can find a 23-25 year old Willie Mitchell type, everything would fall into place.   

 

Cole should be getting an extension now as well.    Same with Myers maybe Myers.   Lock in those guys plus add a young Willie Mitchell, we have a shot at a cup this year and next year.    The only other thing would be a 3C who can move up when needed.  

 

Van is loaded with 7th defenseman.   Breezer will be back.    Signing Bear and making that vital trade, our D-corp is set for now.    Once Willander comes in, that pushes our window.    We've basically got one long window with this core, but it's going to close somewhat for awhile, during the worst part of the OEL buyout, and when we wait for cap to go up assuming all EP and Hronek sign monster deals.   

 

Adding one more top four D that's part of the long term plan aside from Willander, is what we need the most. 

Totally agreed.  Bear would be a great depth addition.  If he's in the depth chart along with Friedman and Myers for the right side, we've got the depth to make a push in the playoffs.

 

What we really need to put this team into true contender status is another bona-fide top 3 defenceman.  Specifically a RHD that anchors the 2nd pair.  The cost will be high (thinking a top prospect and a 1st, likely with a 3rd piece in the package as well).  

 

Calgary is starting to pickup wins now, otherwise I'd sell the farm for Rasmus Andersson. That's the kinda guy we should be targeting.  Mid 20s with term on a reasonable deal.

 

Having half your defence core made up of Hughes, Hronek, and ________ would mean we have a top tier defence.

 

Not many of these types around though.  Really glad the Canucks brass had the guts to go get Hronek.

 

Who else might be obtainable?  

Pesce if an extension can be discussed in advance.

Severson might want his NTC to get outta CLB?

Pulock?

 

[Jeremy Hronek]

2 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Trade for Zadorov and be done with it. These free agents, Kane included, coming in cold mid-season is a recipe for disaster. I'd take Bear for 1M, no more. He probably deserves 2M but who knows how he's going to play after missing so much time, would rather just play Wolanin or Hirose and move Cole over.

 

Why not just sign him *for free* in the off-season?

 

11 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Totally agreed.  Bear would be a great depth addition.  If he's in the depth chart along with Friedman and Myers for the right side, we've got the depth to make a push in the playoffs.

 

 

 

 

Yep, you nailed it. 

 

1 hour ago, IBatch said:

Bear isn't a bad signing, it's a depth requirement as much as anything.    Like a Hamhuis.   Someone cost controlled for a couple seasons or more, that we can add to our core with.  

 

Like a Rasmus Andersson calibre player right?  (maybe not him specifically per se, but someone of that calibre).   I'd be on board with this IF the acquisition cost isn't too beastly, but I can't see it being anything but.  People on here seem to think that Podkolzin and a 2024 1st would be a "good package," but would it really?  Look at it from others teams' perspectives.  The Canucks are tracking to be a Top 10 this year.....and so that 2024 1st would likely be low.  Podkolzin is a D+4 player that still hasn't cracked our line-up.  While I think Podkolzin still has a lot of potential, teams aren't going to pay a premium price for him since he's probably almost viewed as a reclamation project.  Lekkerimaki will likely be needed to replace one of Kuzmenko or Boeser when we'll likely have to choose one of them, while Silovs is projected to be our Demko replacement. Most other organizations already have young players/prospects like Hoglander, Hirose, Raty, McWard, etc.  

 

I mean, look at the rumoured acquisition cost for a past-his-prime Chris Tanev for instance (UFA at the end of the season).  The conversation *starts* with Hoglander+. That's too high a price in my opinion.

 

If you're looking for a "cost controlled established asset that we can add to our core with," the conversation likely starts with Willander or Lekkerimaki.  

 

Last but not least, I hate to be the one to say this, but I agree with @VegasCanuck. This Canucks team, while good, likely isn't an elite team just yet.  Their current shooting percentage is unsustainable (although I'd be interested to see if they can adjust when it inevitably comes down a bit).  Furthermore, Thomas Drance has pointed out that even with Pettersson and Miller on the ice, the Canucks are giving up territorial advantage for the most part 5 on 5 (for the last 7-8 games).  

 

As impressive as our current record is right now, we aren't at 2011 levels just yet.  The twins line and Kesler's line absolutely dominated possession and territory during their heyday.  To me, this current Canucks team looks like an exaggerated/better version of the 2006-2007 team and/or the 2014-2015 team.  Our lack of size come playoff time might also become an issue.

 

I still prefer "slow and steady," rather than 'busting a nut' to try and win the cup this year. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[grumpyone]

yes to Edler...........for a one day contract so that he can retire a Canuck.

Yes, I could Bear signing Bear to a reasonable contract, say 2 years @ no more than $2 million

[Jeremy Hronek]

What about Wolanin?  Why not give Hirose a shot at the bigs?  

 

In order for young players to improve, they need to see NHL ice.

 

 So why not give Hirose a shot up here? He's waiver exempt is he not?  You can't be petrified to give your farm prospects some NHL time.  Let's see what the kid's got.  He looked half-decent for us at the end of last season.  Build on that.

 

 

4 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

The problem is that we can't have Bear until the New Year.  Until then, that means we ride Juulsen and Friedman, including this current stretch without Soucy.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[qwijjibo]

5 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Yes to Bear, no to Edler.  

 

Edler, god bless him, is washed up now.  

 

I'd be in favour of signing Ethan Bear as opposed to trading young assets (i.e. Hoglander+) for someone like Tanev.  

 

Let Bear be our solution to the "hedge against potential injuries to the defense," problem.  

 

Initially, I was in favour of trading for a top pairing RD that could play alongside Hughes (while allowing Hronek to "captain" a 2nd pairing), but the Canucks seem content to play Hughes-Hronek together........and so I'm not sure if we really need a "#2A/#3" calibre defenseman (especially at what it would cost).    

 

Sign Bear for free.  

 

Let Edler fade off into the sunset.

 

 

 

Cap space? 

[Kevin Biestra]

5 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

There have been some famous Canucks who've come back and made big impacts.  Brad Richardson.  Peter Schaefer.  Some gym club owner.  These can be the next ones.

 

Harold Snepsts.  He was the original prodigal son come home before Linden.

 

Then the Canucks kind of disrespectfully cut him loose again when he still had hockey left in him a second time.

[EdgarM]

We are no longer in the Benning era so we have no need for "Band Aids" anymore. Thats what these guys are and they do not fit on this team.

We need more players such as Soucy and Zadorov is the only player we should be keying on at acquiring.

We have improved at playing big physical teams but we are not there yet, we need to get bigger and faster not smaller and slower.

[Nucker67]

I like the idea of signing Edler for the rest of this season only. He would be good depth, he's big, can hit and I think he would play with some oomph, being back in Vancouver. It would be his last chance at the Cup. He'd also be really cheap.

[PeteyBOI]

Soucy will be be ready before Bear is ready... so that's a later decision, but we should be inquiring what its gonna take

 

Edler is interesting, I actually though he was a RD but turns out he is a LD

 

Edler and myers have played PK together as the top unit... Edler could take his 1:50 on pk2 with myers and play 12 sheltered ES minutes. and Edler is a lefty so would be really useful for the next 6-8 weeks... i nalso think he will do really well on defensive facoffs against 3/4 liners.. he will get burned as he is pretty slow now, But Juulsen isnt a speed demon himself.

 

I say sign Edler just for these 6-8 weeks... then having him as our 8th defenceman traveling with the team and mentoring the young kids can only be a good thing, i bet the Sedins would like it too... just a stop gap so we don't get roasted on the PK when cole takes his penalties...

 

But the GM and the scouts know best, if we dont sign Edler im assuming Hirose's EV play is that much better than Edler's to make up for his PK deficiencies (he is not strong and will have trouble clearing the net)

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Dankmemes187

[Kevin Biestra]

I'm sentimental and would like to see Edler and Tanev back adding to their career Canucks totals but at the same time I don't really want anyone from that period of time in the late late career Sedins and emerging Horvat chapter where the team sucked, wallowed in sucking and just became used to it and got everybody in the city used to it as well.  Edler and Tanev are the guys from the 2014-2021 Canucks more than they are guys from the 2011 Canucks at this point.  In terms of atmosphere and team dynamics and leadership etc., whatever they knew from 2011 has been largely overwritten by 2014-2021 when it comes to playing in Vancouver.  They had their opportunity to show what they could do in the dressing room etc. with the hole left by the Sedins and what happened was we got Captain Doldrums Horvat leading the team nowhere but down with the exception of the bubble run...and Tanev and Edler didn't seem to do much to counter that.

 

To me it's not like bringing back Snepsts or Linden or if we had at some point brought back Ronning or someone like that.  The contributions of Edler and Tanev are mostly confined to their on ice abilities and if those have waned there isn't much reason but sentiment to bring them back and I think there is a risk to the team dynamic and chemistry that has emerged this year.

 

Edited November 18, 2023 by Kevin Biestra

[Bob Long]

I like adding Bear on another show me deal. I like adding Edler on a one day contract to end his career as a Canuck.

[EdgarM]

22 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

I'm sentimental and would like to see Edler and Tanev back adding to their career Canucks totals but at the same time I don't really want anyone from that period of time in the late late career Sedins and emerging Horvat chapter where the team sucked, wallowed in sucking and just became used to it and got everybody in the city used to it as well.  Edler and Tanev are the guys from 2014-2021 Canucks more than they are guys from the 2011 Canucks at this point.  In terms of atmosphere and team dynamics and leadership etc., whatever they knew from 2011 has been largely overwritten by 2014-2021 when it comes to playing in Vancouver.  They had their opportunity to show what they could do in the dressing room etc. with the hole left by the Sedins and what happened was we got Captain Doldrums Horvat leading the team nowhere but down with the exception of the bubble run...and Tanev and Edler didn't seem to do much to counter that.

 

To me it's not like bringing back Snepsts or Linden or if we had at some point brought back Ronning or someone like that.  The contributions of Edler and Tanev are mostly confined to their on ice abilities and if those have waned there isn't much reason but sentiment to bring them back and I think there is a risk to the team dynamic and chemistry that has emerged this year.

Very well said , people seem to easily forget why these guys were not coveted when they left. I feel Edler was a part of that culture of non-chalant play who was getting slower and slower as each year passed. If he could only apply himself he could be so impactful but much like Myers, they choose not to play that physical type of play, game in and game out. Edler was one of those players who basically gave up on Torts when he tried to push them and not a Culture guy I want around these new batch of players. 

Tanev has his plusses but he also has his minuses and he could never stay healthy enough to help us out when we needed him. 

They are band aids which we would need to tear off sooner rather then later, pass. 

[Elias Pettersson]

6 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

The problem is that we can't have Bear until the New Year.  Until then, that means we ride Juulsen and Friedman, including this current stretch without Soucy.

 

 

I would not be surprised if Edler joined the rest of the 2011 core and started coaching here next year.  His wife is from here and he's lived most of his adult life here.

 

Not sure why you're so dismissive of Bear, though.  He got traded around but he was always a legitimate NHL-level defenceman.  When he is fully recovered, he should be able to continue where he left off.  Friedman is firmly in the 7/8 spot and has been there for most of his career.  I like him, but Bear is definitely the better defenceman on paper.

I don’t want another tweener 6/7 Dman. I want the big kahuna. The big fish. I want this team to go all in and win the cup. 
 

Bring me some Zadorov please. Or make a franchise altering trade. 

[Nucker67]

Okay, say they somehow clear some cap space, maybe trading Beauvillier+ (maybe Podkolzin or Hoglander as well, sweetener)

 

Sign Bear

Sign Edler

Sign Kessel

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Mikheyev

Di Giuseppe - Miller - Boeser

Garland - Suter - Kessel

Joshua - Blueger - Lafferty

 

Hughes - Hronek

Cole - Bear

Soucy - Myers

Edler - Friedman

 

 

[EdgarM]

4 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

Okay, say they somehow clear some cap space, maybe trading Beauvillier+ (maybe Podkolzin or Hoglander as well, sweetener)

 

Sign Bear

Sign Edler

Sign Kessel

 

Kuzmenko - Pettersson - Mikheyev

Di Giuseppe - Miller - Boeser

Garland - Suter - Kessel

Joshua - Blueger - Lafferty

 

Hughes - Hronek

Cole - Bear

Soucy - Myers

Edler - Friedman

 

 

Have you not seen Kessel's play lately? We are far better off with Beauvillier and Hogs by a long shot.