Brock Boeser - Long Term Core Player or "Pump and Dump" in the Summer?

[Jeremy Hronek]

What do you guys think we should do with Brock?

 

Possible reasons to keep Brock long term:  

 

On the one hand, Boeser has clearly rediscovered his passion for the game and seems to be flourishing under Tocchet. Boeser hasn't looked this good in a long time.  He snipes, he passes, and is playing a very solid 200 foot game.  On top of all this, Boeser is the longest standing member of the Canucks. Brock Boeser is also 26 years of age, and it was around this age that the Sedin twins and Naslund took leaps in their game. All of these are possible reasons for keeping Boeser. 

 

Possible reasons to move Brock in the Summer:  

 

Unlike Garland and now Kuzmenko, it might be easier to move Brock in order to navigate through our cap challenges.  Clearing cap would allow us to comfortably sign both Pettersson and Hronek long term while possibly bringing in another key piece in a more pressing position.  While Boeser is having a terrific year, skating has never been his strong suit and a strong argument can be made that the game will only get faster from here on out. How effective will Brock be if the game gets faster while Brock simultaneously starts to slow down with age?  Also, Boeser has a good heart, but we saw how drastically his game was affected when his father suffered health problems.  Now obviously, a parent's ailing health will affect anyone and this issue needs to be treated with great sensitivity, but players do react differently to these types of situations. If Brock experiences another personal tragedy, will he go back to being the player that we saw over the last two seasons?   

 

My personal opinion:    As much as I like and respect Boeser, I think I would lean towards moving him in the Summer.  Canucks need cap flexibility and Boeser's history suggests that he's too inconsistent to warrant receiving a long term deal.  [EDIT - I've changed my mind after reading this thread + thinking more deeply about this issue.  I'd probably be inclined to keep Brock as of this writing].

Edited December 12, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Bob Long]

If BB comes in under 7 then by all means lock him up.

 

He has developed into a great partner with JT and I don't think it's a flash, it seems like he's figured out how to engage more physically.

 

Could be a great line with hogs.

[Mando27]

I voted to keep him, he's been playing well and I hope it keeps up. I also don't think he will try to ask for the moon when his contract comes up.

[greenbean30]

I would not be trading Boeser just for cap flexibility. Right now, Boeser is our 2nd best forward behind Miller and our 3rd best at normal times when Petey is playing like he can.

Who do you replace Boeser with? We don't have many players waiting to slot into a top 6 spot right now. Eventually Lekkerimaki could be a Boeser replacement, but not anytime soon. And honestly, I would rather Lekkerimaki be a Kuz replacement, and have a stronger top 6 and get rid of our overpaid players who are underproducing or making too much for what role they are playing with the team.

 

Yes, Boeser could likely fetch us a first and a prospect, but those are re-build moves for this team, since we have no replacements.

[Tusk]

This seems kinda dumb to even consider. Brock went to the all-stars not by our choice.

yes he has some weaker years. but he has that snipe, and that sneaky glide into the open spot.

People complain that he is slow, but if you watch Ovechkin play its not slow, its methodical.

 

JT has figured BB out and even Hogs did last game. I think Garlund is the best fit for JT and BB but I dont want them to do it till the playoffs.

[OldFaithfulcap]

 

The sedins showed that some lampposts are better than others and brock does a few more things. I would like to see him in front putting away scraps for a while, though i'd like kuzzy back to his backdoor sneak position too.

[higgyfan]

32 minutes ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

What do you guys think we should do with Brock?

 

Possible reasons to keep Brock long term:  

 

On the one hand, Boeser has clearly rediscovered his passion for the game and seems to be flourishing under Tocchet. Boeser hasn't looked this good in a long time.  He snipes, he passes, and is playing a very solid 200 foot game.  On top of all this, Boeser is the longest standing member of the Canucks. Brock Boeser is also 26 years of age, and it was around this age that the Sedin twins and Naslund took leaps in their game. All of these are possible reasons for keeping Boeser. 

 

Possible reasons to move Brock in the Summer:  

 

Unlike Garland and now Kuzmenko, it might be easier to move Brock in order to navigate through our cap challenges.  Clearing cap would allow us to comfortably sign both Pettersson and Hronek long term while possibly bringing in another key piece in a more pressing position.  While Boeser is having a terrific year, skating has never been his strong suit and a strong argument can be made that the game will only get faster from here on out. How effective will Brock be if the game gets faster while Brock simultaneously starts to slow down with age?  Also, Boeser has a good heart, but we saw how drastically his game was affected when his father suffered health problems.  Now obviously, a parent's ailing health will affect anyone and this issue needs to be treated with great sensitivity, but players do react differently to these types of situations. If Brock experiences another personal tragedy, will he go back to being the player that we saw over the last two seasons?   

 

My personal opinion:    As much as I like and respect Boeser, I think I would lean towards moving him in the Summer.  Canucks need cap flexibility and Boeser's history suggests that he's too inconsistent to warrant receiving a long term deal.  

 

I would think that whatever difficulties arise in Brock's life, he is more prepared to deal with it now.  It's

the tough times in life that teach us how to be effective at living.   I think Brock has shown a tremendous

depth of character and the strength to 'bounce back' from his personal tragedy.  I think that he has

become far more confidence in himself going forward.

 

I would like to see him re-signed, but not for too long a term.

[Tusk]

If they could practice in secret, I think we should be:

 

Garlund/Miller/Boeser

Hogz/Petey/Podz

Kuz/Suter/Mik

Josh/Blue/Laughs.

 

Hughes/Heronk (but only secret and for the big games_

Hughes/Bear

Cole/Myers

Zadz/Soucy

[Ghostsof1915]

I'd say keep him, but if someone offers you a deal you be stupid to pass up, then I'd consider it.

[Phil_314]

I think at this point he's the least of our problems, he and Miller have done well together.  If we're fixing the top-6, I'd rather see what to do with Petey's wings, since Tocchet clearly doesn't see a fit for Kuzmenko next to EP40 anymore, and he's a wasted talent on L4, and I have my reservations about Lafferty being a long-term fit next to Petey, so if there's an Alex Tuch type power winger on the market who wouldn't cost too much I'd love for us to potentially move Kuzmenko while he's still an asset and try to get him.  Worst comes to worst, Kuzmenko "finds his form" again and takes off there, but he's not getting a chance here anyways so I'd rather recoup some value for him than potentially relegate him to a benched/ buyout candidate.  Heck, I'd even flip him to SJ (sorry Kuzie) and get someone like Zetterlund plus possibly a pick back, since Fabian's got the speed, shot and some physicality that could help him flourish in Tocchet's system, plus he's only 24 and cheap.    

If we do trade Boeser, look to do so either at TDL (when teams have accrued cap space) or during the offseason/ draft.  Now's not the time to rock the boat (even though I do agree that if there's value to be had in trading him then we should).

Edited December 9, 2023 by Phil_314

[DrJockitch]

Think it depends what happens with EP and Hronek. 
Lek looks like will be ready to take over that role for a lot less money so think pump and dump more likely as we are coming on some cap crunches with the OEL penalty. 

[Rekker]

26 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I'd say keep him, but if someone offers you a deal you be stupid to pass up, then I'd consider it.

This. Brock and JT look to have developed some great chemistry. You want duos in the forward group imho. Pairs of players that you can keep together and then interchange the Laffertys, Hogs, PGD's of the world. EP and Mik look like a duo as well. All that said, if someone offers a grindy winger in exchange, like  Konecny, maybe pull the trigger. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

One thought that had crossed my mind:  

 

1. Completely commit to Brock Boeser and lock him up long term.  

 

2. Package Kuzmenko and Lekkerimaki in a 'hockey deal' of some kind for a youngish power forward left winger.  

 

End result = Pettersson (C), Hronek (D), Boeser (LW), Miller (2C) and *LW'er* all locked up long term.  Hughes (D) and Willander (D) would eventually join the long term list as well.  

[Miss Korea]

1 hour ago, greenbean30 said:

I would not be trading Boeser just for cap flexibility. Right now, Boeser is our 2nd best forward behind Miller and our 3rd best at normal times when Petey is playing like he can.

Who do you replace Boeser with? We don't have many players waiting to slot into a top 6 spot right now. Eventually Lekkerimaki could be a Boeser replacement, but not anytime soon. And honestly, I would rather Lekkerimaki be a Kuz replacement, and have a stronger top 6 and get rid of our overpaid players who are underproducing or making too much for what role they are playing with the team.

 

Yes, Boeser could likely fetch us a first and a prospect, but those are re-build moves for this team, since we have no replacements.

That Horvat -> Hronek sequence taught me that sometimes it takes two trades to get the piece you really want, and draft picks are a more universal currency than a player.

 

We could replace Boeser with another $7M winger if we really wanted to.  He is not cheap and there are a lot of wingers who play a top-six game and get no ice time because the Canucks are already stacked on the wing (ie. Garland and Höglander).

 

1 hour ago, Tusk said:

This seems kinda dumb to even consider. Brock went to the all-stars not by our choice.

yes he has some weaker years. but he has that snipe, and that sneaky glide into the open spot.

People complain that he is slow, but if you watch Ovechkin play its not slow, its methodical.

 

JT has figured BB out and even Hogs did last game. I think Garlund is the best fit for JT and BB but I dont want them to do it till the playoffs.

 

Alexander Ovechkin is a generational talent and arguably the greatest goalscorer of all time.  He is slow because he is 38 years old.  Boeser is slow because he is slow.  At Brock's age Ovie was a freight train with tons of speed and momentum coming up the ice.  "Methodical"... what on earth are you getting at...

 

To clarify, I love Brock and he's been great.  If he wants to stay, let him stay.  But you can't spin his lack of footspeed as some kind of great asset.

Edited December 9, 2023 by Miss Korea

[Drakrami]

As people mentioned above, I'd keep him under 7million AAV. Anything more than that I'd trade him. The good news is, we couldn't even trade him for a 2nd rounder the last few years; this time, we will get a 1st round + prospect at the very least. 

[TheGuardian]

So many comments from the heart and not the head.

The BUSINESS of hockey.

 

The heart forgets how he got those goals, against which teams and the type of goals. Let's throw in actual puck possession number too.

 

First, the Canucks got Edmonton on a massive downer and the worst team in the league San Jose, both were 31 and 32 in the league. The Nux also had incredible percentages in their favour. Boeser was around 40%.

 

The goals themselves

Boeser has a total of 18 goals,

 

The first 14 game - 11 goals, 10 goals scored in 6 games vs Oilers/Sharks, 5 power play goals. In the first 14 games.

In the last 13 games - 7 goals, 3 empty net goals, 3 power play.

 

The point being he is more of a complimentary player than a line driver. Any replacement will get goals, Hoglander has 8, Mikheyev has 7, Lafferty has 7 all with less icetime than him and not playing with the second and sometimes the best Canuck forward.

 

The OEL buyout will be raiseing it's ugly head soon going to over 2 mil next season and then doubling for the next 3 but next season has Petersson and maybe Hronek needing BIG raises unless the Canucks decide having just one high scoring defender is enough and trade Hronek for the future and use his cap space to get another STUD dman, Tanev, Hanifin, or a younger Schnieder or ?????

 

So any Boeser trade could be linked to an even more improved defence

Edited December 9, 2023 by TheGuardian

[Hammertime]

I'd trade him while his play is rebounding. It's not sustainable and realistically he's just not that good. He's slow and soft. It's great to see him scoring again love the guy. But there's no fire n his belly he's a shrinking violet. Simply put he's just too nice a guy and his cap hit is too much. Weve got to find money to pay Pete, Hronek, Zad, De Smith.

 

 

By that token we should have sold high on Kuzz at the deadline last year. The way I see it we can't have both. If one is clicking the other will be slumping. Simply don't have room for both in our top 6 without making it completely toothless. 

[Rekker]

30 minutes ago, Hammertime said:

The way I see it we can't have both. If one is clicking the other will be slumping. Simply don't have room for both in our top 6 without making it completely toothles

I can agree with this. One of Brock or Kuz will become the clear front runner to keep at some point. I would take a player with less scoring and more teeth to take ones place for sure. Like a Foligno type. Tough to aquire but Alvin can do it if anyone can.

[Amebushi]

I picked keep him. This is conditional to a few things. If he wants too much money then trade him. His numbers are pumped up right now due to a few good games against crappy teams. He has been streaky at best for years and actually pretty poor for a couple. Great team guy, has chemistry with JT but not worth a big overpay. The other side to this is what are teams offering for his services?  If we can sell high and get an overpayment in either a decent first rounder, A prospect or a top 4 RHD + you have to think about it. IMHO very few should be untouchable on this team yet. Brock looks good this year. If he wants to be here then he will sign for reasonable dollars. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

If all he was doing was just scoring goals (with his one high end skill), yeah, I'd be looking to "pump & dump".

 

But under Tocchet, he's turning into actually a more complete player.  Even when he's not scoring, he's having a positive impact on the scoresheet with his screens infront of the net.

 

Only deal him if its for a legit defenseman.

[cripplereh]

With his history of getting hurt to me he had one, now two years of being good.

 

He is getting older and if we could get a great prospect and 1st you have to take it.

[IBatch]

The team (and fans), are now in the reward stage of standing by him.   Had the worst luck in his life, and on the ice (injury wise).     It should also be a lesson on not getting overly excited about the shinny new toy (Toffoli, Kuzmenko).   Tactically, we needed to offload wing cap to work on the D.    We still might need to go there.     For Brock, we aren't in any rush.    And a lot of it, comes down to what his ask might be.   Personally hope he takes into account, that the team did provide a health bridge, and that he didn't meet his first bridge expectations.   It really comes down to what he might re-sign for with us, and the term.   It's his last big one.    And well, as a decade seasoned vet, by then, he's earned the right to decide for himself. 

 

Hope he stays, and that it's reasonable.    Picked keep him.   But it really comes down to his ask....if it's nuts or he chooses to do what he did with JB on his second deal,  then yes, we probably are better off parting ways.      I'd rather keep Brock and trade Kuzmenko.   And that includes going back to last season.  

[Bllewellyn]

I picked yes however it is only if he takes a home town discount, to make up for the past couple overpayment years . 

[IBatch]

17 hours ago, Hammertime said:

I'd trade him while his play is rebounding. It's not sustainable and realistically he's just not that good. He's slow and soft. It's great to see him scoring again love the guy. But there's no fire n his belly he's a shrinking violet. Simply put he's just too nice a guy and his cap hit is too much. Weve got to find money to pay Pete, Hronek, Zad, De Smith.

 

 

By that token we should have sold high on Kuzz at the deadline last year. The way I see it we can't have both. If one is clicking the other will be slumping. Simply don't have room for both in our top 6 without making it completely toothless. 

You been watching Brock?  His skating is average, and he's gained some speed.   Like the Sedins eventually did too.    His hockey IQ is very high.  Also a very good passer.   And he's not "soft".   Folks were all over Toffoli and how "amazing" he was,  he's a total muffin on the boards, and his superpower is hiding from any sort of physical play, hiding from the other team, then suddenly appearing for easy tap ins.       Brocks only playoffs, he was more engaged than both TT and Pearson (who completely went into hiding against Vegas).    You're holding onto the past.   Even in the past, Brock was winning more board battles than losing (yes they track this), better than most RWs in the entire league.   Soft players stay away from the boards, and engaging infront of the net, Brock's not shy about either, although that's for sure one area, he's added to his toolbox this season, and it's paying dividends.     His line up (not last night though),  has also been faced up against the leagues very best at home most of the year. 

 

 This is one of the worst takes ive seen on Brock, aside from when he did seem disinterested for stretches under Bruce.   Who was quick to put him with guys like Dries.   Hogs was also in his doghouse.   

 

Seems like some folks just can't be happy when things work out.   Brocks a stand up character guy.    His cap for sure has been an issue, paying for potential comes with risks.    Enjoy the reward stage.   Hope he scores 50, and love to see a thread where people come and repent their sins against such a character, stand up guy.  

 

Brocks looking like our very own Patrick Sharp right now.   CHI doesn't win cups without him. 

Edited December 10, 2023 by IBatch

[Jaimito]

He's becoming a more complete player and has excellent chemistry with JT.   

 

If he stays healthy, he's likely to lead in goals for Canucks this yr.  Goal scorers are hard to find.   

 

Off the ice, this guy is true gem.  Fits the Canucks identity. 

 

Can't believe he is now the longest tenure active Canucks player.  So much roster turn over.  I remember WD got his dad in the locker room to announce the starting lineup for his first game.