Am I the only one willing to overpay Hronek ?

[TUSK v2.0]

6 minutes ago, Bardown said:

Oh so now we have the cap and you change your argument 

 

Keep moving those goalposts! 

you mis-understood me. I said the cap goes up, but I think our cap space is going down, to the point we can not extend Brock next year, and Demko the following.

Maybe we sign and keep Hronek fat and happy with points beside Hughes next season but at some point, he is better as a trade piece to clear cap and get picks.

[Bardown]

3 minutes ago, TUSK v2.0 said:

you mis-understood me. I said the cap goes up, but I think our cap space is going down, to the point we can not extend Brock next year, and Demko the following.

Maybe we sign and keep Hronek fat and happy with points beside Hughes next season but at some point, he is better as a trade piece to clear cap and get picks.

Yes we can

 

again go do some math 

 

in fact someone posted a thread about this with a whole spreadsheet for you 

 

dig around the site 

[Blue]

59 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 

They need to define how much his game has improved due to Quinn's influence. Knowing

the Canucks management, they will have some quotes from teams around the league to

see what his true value is. He is an RFA, so they will have more time to decide what they

can offer him.  Hopefully they can find a way to re-sign him, as he is at the perfect age

to offer him a maximum term with NMC for the first few seasons.

 

Well he's not as good as Hughs obviously. But that's not a bad thing. Sometimes having 2 puck moving #1's doesn't work. Look at Erik Karrlson and Bret Burns. And there has been others like this.

 

So i don't think we can't paint it as a negative that he's so good with Hughs. 

[Blue]

17 minutes ago, TUSK v2.0 said:

you mis-understood me. I said the cap goes up, but I think our cap space is going down, to the point we can not extend Brock next year, and Demko the following.

Maybe we sign and keep Hronek fat and happy with points beside Hughes next season but at some point, he is better as a trade piece to clear cap and get picks.

I love Brock. But he's a scoring winger. If we have to choose between them , it's going to be Hronek. 

[Blue]

55 minutes ago, TUSK v2.0 said:

 

And about a RHD, what I was saying, we can replace Hronek much cheaper and just as effective. 

That is crazy. And just wrong. The best you can fish around the league to find decent D men tops out at the Ethan Bear types. Anything else costs 1st rounders++. 

 

Give us some names. What RHD is on your short list to acquire to replace Hronek ??

[Bobby James]

20 hours ago, PeteyBOI said:

Here are some relevant comparables for Filip Hronek:

These are fine examples, but if I'm being honest I'd take any of these 3 guys over him. 

 

But to your point, these are likely the comparables they will look to. I really hope he comes in around the 7-7.5 range, but if it hits 8 then sure we may just have to live with it. 

 

I would like him to run his own pair instead of partner with Hughes, but we'll have to see what next year's D group looks like. 

[BCNate]

19 hours ago, Blue said:

There's nothing to disagree about. Its just wrong to compare a bridge contract AAV with a 3rd contract AAV

100%.  People claiming that he can't get more than Hughes are out to lunch.  That is not how things work in the NHL.

[higgyfan]

17 minutes ago, Blue said:

 

Well he's not as good as Hughs obviously. But that's not a bad thing. Sometimes having 2 puck moving #1's doesn't work. Look at Erik Karrlson and Bret Burns. And there has been others like this.

 

So i don't think we can't paint it as a negative that he's so good with Hughs. 

 

I don't see Hronik as a negative for the Canucks at all.  The negative, for another team,

is paying him for the points he put up with Hughes this season.  Are they somewhat

bloated?  Will he perform as well as he has with the Canucks?  I think the answers to

these question might affect the outcome of his new contract.  But I may be just

hoping.

 

[TUSK v2.0]

16 minutes ago, Blue said:

I love Brock. But he's a scoring winger. If we have to choose between them , it's going to be Hronek. 

I love Hronek. But Brock was our draft the year before Petey. He had an amazing rookie year, and at the time he was the best we have seen since Horvat.

Petey did "outshine" Brock and he has had some setbacks and injuries, but is now back to himself. Besides all the trauma, Hronek does not come close to being a CORE piece. Boeser is underrated and mostly ignored.... but..... look at the names he is beside, bolded below.

Hronek is only a shiny accessory to Hughes, who is also getting in the Canucks records every game...

 

Recording the primary assist on J.T. Miller’s overtime winner on Mar. 5/24 at LAK, Brock Boeser recorded the 200th assist of his career, becoming the 20th forward in franchise history to hit that mark.

 

After scoring on the power play on Feb. 29/24 vs LAK, Brock Boeser has recorded 15 power play goals this season. Only three other Canucks have scored as many in a season in the past 20 years, Daniel Sedin (18, 2010.11, & 16, 2006.07), Ryan Kesler (15, 2010.11), and Anson Carter (15, 2005.06).

 

Scoring 20 goals in 28 home games, Brock Boeser required the t-4th fewest games to reach that mark. Tony Tanti (22 GP, 1983.84), Thomas Gradin (23 GP, 1981.82), and Alexander Mogilny (24 GP, 1995.96) are the only others to complete the feat faster.

 

Recording two goals and the GWG in OT on Feb. 24/24 vs BOS, Brock Boeser (28 GP) tied Elias Pettersson and Bo Horvat for 8th place for most multi-goal games in franchise history.

 

Scoring two goals on Feb. 24/24 vs BOS, Brock Boeser became the third Canuck in the past 20 years to record 32+ goals through 60 games in a season. Ryan Kessler (33 goals, 2010.11) and Daniel Sedin (32 goals, 2010.11) are the other players.

 

Assisting on a goal on Feb. 20/24 at COL, Brock Boeser set a career high for points in a season with 57 points (31-26-57) in 58 games. His previous best was set in the 2018.19 season (56 points, 69 GP).

 

By scoring a hat trick on Jan. 27/24 vs CBJ, Brock Boeser became the eighth player in franchise history to record three hat tricks in a season. Ryan Kesler was the last player to complete this feat in 2010.11.

 

Brock Boeser ranks t-5th for most hat tricks (6) recorded by a player in Canucks franchise history. Stan Smyl (7), Pavel Bure (9), Markus Naslund (10) and Tony Tanti (10) all pace the list.

 

Boeser also reached the 30-goal mark in a season for the first time in his career, accomplishing this feat in only 49 games into the season. He joined Bo Horvat (42 GP, 2022.23) and Markus Naslund (41 GP, 2002.03) as the third Canuck in the past 25 years to score 30 goals before their 50th game of the season.

[TUSK v2.0]

37 minutes ago, Blue said:

That is crazy. And just wrong. The best you can fish around the league to find decent D men tops out at the Ethan Bear types. Anything else costs 1st rounders++. 

 

Give us some names. What RHD is on your short list to acquire to replace Hronek ??

Juules, Woo, Wolanin, D-Petey,Mynio, Johansson, Mcward, Cicek, Hirose, Brisebois.

All at ELC. 7 mil cap space to sign Boeser and Demko over the next 2 years

 

Also, Quinn Hughes turned a 1mil Bear into a 3 million Bear in one season.

Edited March 7 by TUSK v2.0

[higgyfan]

11 minutes ago, TUSK v2.0 said:

Juules, Woo, Wolanin, D-Petey,Mynio, Johansson, Mcward, Cicek, Hirose, Brisebois.

All at ELC. 7 mil cap space to sign Boeser and Demko over the next 2 years

 

Also, Quinn Hughes turned a 1mil Bear into a 3 million Bear in one season.

 

Quinn is having his best season ever and some of that has to be credited to his excellent

d partner.  Are you suggesting that a bunch of prospects who may never reach the NHL?

 

Bear was ok with Quinn, but his offensive flare is not really there.  I see that he has

basically the same stats in Washington, but less PIMs and a negative +/-.

 

Quinn is a very unhappy camper if the management replace Hronek with Bear or any

other 3rd pairing RD.  Not only his points go down, the entire team's points would

shrink.  The Hughes - Hronek pairing is a significant part of the Canucks success

this season.

 

[Dr. Crossbar]

I'll say this ... and have been saying it since day one of the Hronek trade ... we finally have our championship caliber duo on D. You don't cheap out in that. Pay him fairly what he's worth taking appreciation over the duration into account. 

 

With Hronek, we won't be doing anything other than what other top teams and contenders are doing on D, which is making D a priority financially. It's a great thing we have Hughes on such a great contract. 

[The Duke]

8 years, 6.5-7 mil per.  He doesn’t carry with Hughes but he’s been an elite caddy. 

[IBatch]

On 3/6/2024 at 10:15 PM, PeteyBOI said:

8 isnt a overpay you are correct... he might be a top 32 defender, even though he is a top 10 scorer we all know and him too that thats because of the players he plays with... mainly hughes.

 

Here are some relevant comparables for Filip Hronek:

Mikhail Sergachev (Tampa Bay Lightning):

Contract: 8 years, $68 million
AAV: $8.5 million
Position: Left defense
Age when signed: 25

Thomas Chabot (Ottawa Senators):
Contract: 8 years, $64 million
AAV: $8 million
Position: Left defense
Age when signed: 23

Miro Heiskanen (Dallas Stars):
Contract: 8 years, $67.6 million
AAV: $8.45 million
Position: Defense
Age when signed: 21

Considering these comparables, an AAV of around $8 million to $8.5 million for an 8-year term would be reasonable for Filip Hronek. 

Heiskanen?  Not really.   That's a bad comp.  One of the best young D's in the world.  

 

Chabot?   Not sure how Hronek would have managed being the "man" on some truly terrible Sens teams at the same age.    Getting closer though.    Injures have derailed a promising career.    I have serious doubts if your took Hronek and put him in those earlier Sens teams, if he'd managed better.    

 

Sergachev?   LHD, heir apparent to Hedman, and hits everything that moves.   Not a good comp either.

 

 

More like think Chychrun.   And even that isn't a good comp.   Bigger guy who plays a different game.   How much is he making anyways?   He's the guy, who pushed OEL out of ARI. 

 

 

 

[IBatch]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:36 PM, BCNate said:

100%.  People claiming that he can't get more than Hughes are out to lunch.  That is not how things work in the NHL.

It's very reasonable to say he's not worth more than QHs (current deal).    That's the part that needs to be considered.    Paying a player, for one season is a massive risk.   Chychrun did much better at the similar  ages ... well enough to become their number one and push OEL to the sidelines ..  what's he getting anyways?  About the same current salary.    What's he going to get?   Is Chychrun worth 8 x 8?   That's a lot of cap percentage.   More than Edler got.   After his 49 point season.   No problem with paying the guy because he's a unicorn (RHD),  just feel his starting cap percentage needs to be realistic.     Like Hamhuis was, and Edler (and he was a whipping boy for not turning into the 50 plus point number one we hoped he'd become).  

 

 Look at Erhoff, and how he fell off a cliff once he got his boffo legacy deal and asked to be the "man".   Didn't work out.   We can't assume QHs is going to re-sign.   And at 8 million, likely would be paying 21-22% of our entire cap, for one pairing.     That could be worth it.   So could providing a rotation of partners.     

 

Team doesn't need to re-sign Hronek yet.  He's still got another year on his RFA status.     Maybe re-visiting in the summer, after the playoffs isn't a bad idea, if his camp is far apart.    When it comes to 300-500k "extra" for the big fish, it does add up quickly.     Cap going up needs to be spread out.   Going up 5%.   On 7, that's an extra 350k.   From deals signed a year ago, two years ago a little tiny bit more etc. 
 

Do love that they are focusing in order.  EPs deal is done.   Hronek for 8 years, means something.   That they are trying to reduce his AVV.   50 million, isn't chump change. 

Edited March 11 by IBatch

[IBatch]

On 3/7/2024 at 6:54 PM, TUSK v2.0 said:

Juules, Woo, Wolanin, D-Petey,Mynio, Johansson, Mcward, Cicek, Hirose, Brisebois.

All at ELC. 7 mil cap space to sign Boeser and Demko over the next 2 years

 

Also, Quinn Hughes turned a 1mil Bear into a 3 million Bear in one season.

Juulsen isn't the worst plan in the world given he could play our Methot to EK.    It really comes down to where they want to spend that extra 4-5 million bucks over the years.    That was still an elite pairing.    Thing about players who get 14% plus of the cap, it shouldn't matter whom you put on their line, Rust, Mikheyev (he did play with Mathews), or load up.    Toews went from a reliable guy to a different level.    QHs does that.    QHs Tanev worked because Tanev was there to help QHs grow his game and save his arse.    Hronek for sure, should be giving QHs b-day cards for the remainder of his life.   His next deal went from 35-40 million, to 50-54.   

 

This comes with risk.   Subban, Dumba, Trouba, OEL, Myers, Nurse, Jones, Krug, Parayoko, Vlasic ...older to more recent worst deals in the NHL, are loaded with defenseman, and ones who at some point were thought to be a lot more then the really were/are.     Buyer beware.    

 

What concerns me the most is what happens in a few short seasons, when QHs is up.    Also get that you can't win unless you have the right players ... on fair to team friendly deals.   Our team is so good right now, because we have so many guys playing above their current salary's.   We all know what happens once they get paid.  Can't do it if they don't either.    Look how long it took Dallas to recover from Seguin and Benn's deals,  PIT from Crosby and Malkin.   CHI never recovered from Toews and Kane.   LA is just getting ahead of Doughty and Kopitar now.    MIN was done as soon as Parise and Suter got theirs etc.

 

It's scary that we could end up with a top pairing, making 21-22% of the cap.   8 absolutely, is core player money.   
 

Do see the vision though.   The vision is to extend the window to include two windows.    Or one very long one.   Nothing wrong with that either.    Hope Hronek signs, for around 7-7.25 x 8.   Having a solid number two for the duration of EPs deal is a huge building block.      

 

 

Edited March 11 by IBatch

[wai_lai416]

On 3/6/2024 at 8:35 PM, Reznor said:

Hronek is a good player. He's been given prime ice time and prime opportunities beside Hughes for most of his time with the Canucks. I can't help feel that has inflated his numbers to some degree - somewhat like what happened when virtually anybody played with the Sedins. Star players prop up their linemates. 

I am also of the mindset that he shouldn't be paid more than Hughes - regardless of what contract was signed when. I don't believe he is as good as Hughes was - even back in '21. Nor does he have the ceiling.

It's also somewhat symbolic in respect to Hughes' position in both talent and captaincy. 

$7,840,000 per is as high as I'd like to see them go - though ideally with everyone taking discounts, 7-7.5 is the range I'd really like to see to give some cap flexibility. 

lol he 100% is better than hughes was back in 21.. hughes was a defensive liability everytime he steps on the ice that season... as for hughes propping up hronek? he's literally on the same pace scoring wise as he was in detroit without the PP1 minutes he used to be getting... and wth does it mean symbolic in respect to hughes position in both talent and captaincy?? so say if hughes is in his 6th year of his contract.. the cap is say 20mil higher than it was.. out of respect for hughes he should take a massive discount or gtfo?

[Alflives]

13 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Juulsen isn't the worst plan in the world given he could play our Methot to EK.    It really comes down to where they want to spend that extra 4-5 million bucks over the years.    That was still an elite pairing.    Thing about players who get 14% plus of the cap, it shouldn't matter whom you put on their line, Rust, Mikheyev (he did play with Mathews), or load up.    Toews went from a reliable guy to a different level.    QHs does that.    QHs Tanev worked because Tanev was there to help QHs grow his game and save his arse.    Hronek for sure, should be giving QHs b-day cards for the remainder of his life.   His next deal went from 35-40 million, to 50-54.   

 

This comes with risk.   Subban, Dumba, Trouba, OEL, Myers, Nurse, Jones, Krug, Parayoko, Vlasic ...older to more recent worst deals in the NHL, are loaded with defenseman, and ones who at some point were thought to be a lot more then the really were/are.     Buyer beware. 

The comment of Allvin that “we made a fair contract offer” to Hronek sure reminds me of the Horfat Wallet scenario. If Hronek expects more than what’s fair (like Fat Wallet) then Allvin will trade him for a huge haul. 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol he 100% is better than hughes was back in 21.. hughes was a defensive liability everytime he steps on the ice that season... as for hughes propping up hronek? he's literally on the same pace scoring wise as he was in detroit without the PP1 minutes he used to be getting... and wth does it mean symbolic in respect to hughes position in both talent and captaincy?? so say if hughes is in his 6th year of his contract.. the cap is say 20mil higher than it was.. out of respect for hughes he should take a massive discount or gtfo?

So Hronek is scoring like in Detroit, when he was on the pp. yet he’s not getting op here. Sounds like his five on five production is absolutely being propped up by playing with a generational talent, no? 

[IBatch]

On 3/6/2024 at 11:17 PM, Miss Korea said:

 

Miro Heiskanen would likely be earning much more than he is right now, had it not been for Jim Nill's big gamble three summers ago.

 

 

One can dream Filip Hronek will turn out like this.

Anyone who follows this guy, should know that he could be the actual "next Lidstrom".   Not Dahlin.   He's a massive reason why Dallas is a contender.    From his very first shift, the feedback was "he plays like an 8 year vet, there is no panic in his game".    Klingberg, was their go to PP guy back then.   Once that changed, and with time, the points started pouring in.     Know we love our QHs, but I wouldn't be dissapointed, if instead we had this kid.   He's the closest thing, to Lidstrom, the leagues seen, since Lidstrom,  Lidstrom-lite anyways.    

 

Been pumping his tires for years.   Whenever QHs, Makar, Fox or Dahlin's name comes up, quick to add Heiskanen to that list.   Every bit as special as those guys, in an understated way, much like Lidstrom was.   He's actually trending quicker as well.   Have no doubt in my mind, that the more Dallas keeps pounding away at their cup runs, the more this kid will start getting his due.    Like Lidstrom, controls the game differently than his peers.   Not as flashy, no thundering hits,  plays the d-side with elite IQ and skills.   He's no Konstantinov, or Blake, or Borque or Steven's when it comes to hitting guys and contact.   And isn't going to score at a PPG pace often like Lidstrom too.    Not going to Al Mac/Weber the puck.   Just does everything at 90-95% compared to his peer group (the best of the best)  aside from contact.   Smooth as butter, and once it's on his stick, it's leaving the zone.    Big reason why Dallas is one of the best defensive teams in the league right now (yes his plus minus isn't gaudy).  

 

   Hronek is nothing like this guy, in the same way, he's no QHs.     Only 24...What are these guys, going to look like at 28-34?  Usually the best years from top tier defenseman.   Feel we are pretty blessed, that a lot of high end D's came into the league over a 2-3 period.    Also believe, it's pushing the scoring up.   

Edited March 11 by IBatch

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Anyone who follows this guy, should know that he could be the actual "next Lidstrom".   Not Dahlin.   He's a massive reason why Dallas is a contender.    From his very first shift, the feedback was "he plays like an 8 year vet, there is no panic in his game".    Klingberg, was their go to PP guy back then.   Once that changed, and with time, the points started pouring in.     Know we love our QHs, but I wouldn't be dissapointed, if instead we had this kid.   He's the closest thing, to Lidstrom, the leagues seen, since Lidstrom.    

 

Been pumping his tires for years.   Whenever QHs, Makar, Fox or Dahlin's name comes up, quick to add Heiskanen to that list.   Every bit as special as those guys, in an understated way, much like Lidstrom was.   He's actually trending quicker as well.   Have no doubt in my mind, that the more Dallas keeps pounding away at their cup runs, the more this kid will start getting his due.    Like Lidstrom, controls the game differently than his peers.   Not as flashy, no thundering hits,  plays the d-side to perfection with elite IQ and skills.   He's no Konstantinov, or Blake, or Borque or Steven's when it comes to hitting guys and contact.   And isn't going to score at a PPG pace often like Lidstrom too.    Not going to Al Mac/Weber the puck.   Just does everything at 90-95% compared to his peer group (the best of the best)  aside from contact.   Smooth as butter, and once it's on his stick, it's leaving the zone.    Big reason why Dallas is one of the best defensive teams in the league right now.     Hronek is nothing like this guy, in the same way, he's no QHs. 

Heiskanen is better than Dahlin. There’s no question about that. Dahlin is a puck sucker and is the biggest reason why the Sabres are so crappy. He’s one of those over hyped and way overrated guys. Kind of like Zegras. 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Heiskanen is better than Dahlin. There’s no question about that. Dahlin is a puck sucker and is the biggest reason why the Sabres are so crappy. He’s one of those over hyped and way overrated guys. Kind of like Zegras. 

Definitely didn't live up to the hype.   It's remarkable, that EPs draft class was so underwhelming at the time, yet produced Makar, Heiskenan and EP all the same.    Goes to show, how hard it is for scouts to really get it right.   Dahlins class mostly did what they were supposed to...Zadina and too many vowels in CAR.    QHs for sure was the best D of that group, and maybe he's the best D we've seen since Lidstrom too. 

Edited March 11 by IBatch

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Definitely didn't live up to the hype.   It's remarkable, that EPs draft class was so underwhelming at the time, yet produced Makar, Heiskenan and EP all the same.    Goes to show, how hard it is for scouts to really get it right.    

The Quinn Hughes draft had dead weight drafted ahead of him. Especially Dahlin. Sabres should have dumperooed that puck sucker. 
Hopefully Hronek isn’t using Dahlin’s contract as a comparable. Because that guy is way over payed. 

[IBatch]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Quinn Hughes draft had dead weight drafted ahead of him. Especially Dahlin. Sabres should have dumperooed that puck sucker. 
Hopefully Hronek isn’t using Dahlin’s contract as a comparable. Because that guy is way over payed. 

Dahlin has time to turn it around.    Kids only 23, and since he was 21, playing a lot of minutes.   Last year, had a remarkable run for a month or so...a bit early to really know for sure.   Dahlin is a bad comp.   What is going to be interesting, is finding out how Powers does over the next couple seasons.    For sure Buffalo would have traded their pick, moved down and drafted QHs if they had your crystal ball.    The Dahlin hype on this site was unbearable.   Trading EP, and a pile of firsts lol.   Shame! 

 

Edit:  Glad we've moved away from the draft being the most anticipated part of the season.   Every year, the next first overall became an echo chamber of how we could somehow get that coveted pick.   Think that what JB team did, the big hits that is, and the big misses as well, would provide a lot of perspective next time we end up in that cycle (a decade?).   By then, we should have more precise perspective on EPs and QHs draft.  Both guys look like they are well on the way to the HHOF, and already in the Canucks HHOF. 

Edited March 11 by IBatch

[Bob Long]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

The Quinn Hughes draft had dead weight drafted ahead of him. Especially Dahlin. Sabres should have dumperooed that puck sucker. 
Hopefully Hronek isn’t using Dahlin’s contract as a comparable. Because that guy is way over payed. 

 

Doesn't score as much as Dunn, isn't as physical as Poink. Something in the mid to high 6s seems right, somewhere between these two guys.